Thinking of starting up a bookshop; would appreciate stories of personal experience.

Lord TSC

Having been unemployed for a while now, I've decided that it might be time for me to take things into my own hands. I'm pretty well educated, motivated and dedicated to what I put my mind to, I've got some money behind me (not alot but some), so I'm starting to look into what it would take to launch my own bookstore.

I know these topics tend to have people reply along the lines of "Don't do it", but being honest, I'm not looking for posts like that. I'm not saying this is something I am definitely doing and I'm not looking for people to say if it's a good or bad idea because they think I'm dead set on a foolish venture; I'm just trying to research how much start up costs would be, who are the best suppliers and how much do they cost, etc. I'm going into this with eyes open :P

What I'd love though is the chance to talk to some people who started up their own shops (preferably experience of bookshops but any would do really) and who wouldn't mind me asking them questions about their experience starting up. Some people who wouldn't mind if I fired them off some PMs and discussed what they felt they did right and what they felt they did wrong, so I could learn and continue my research into the project

Would anyone be interested in telling me their story? I'd appreciate it greatly.

Ballyman

I have set up a business but it's not a shop so I can't be of any use to you really but I really would love to know if you don't mind, why a bookshop??

ifah

Ballyman wrote: »

I have set up a business but it's not a shop so I can't be of any use to you really but I really would love to know if you don't mind, why a bookshop??

Me too - why a bookshop ?

I know you stated you didn't want any nay sayers but perhaps some feedback from a prospective customer and avid reader.

At present I read about 2 books per week - the house is full of books, kids and my wife read alot so we buy a lot of books BUT - we never (almost) buy from a bricks and mortar shop. All real books are bought online, kids might pick up a book in easons or somewhere now and then but about 95% of physical books are bought online. (wife buys a lot of cook books & kids are too little for ebooks)

As for me - i only use a kindle now and have done so for past couple of years.
My wife also has a kindle for fiction reading.

A lot of our circle of family and friends have been transitioning over to ebooks over past year also..... have you taken this trend into your business plan ?

Lord TSC

Sorry, didn't mean to be rude in saying "No naysayers". Reading back over the opening most, maybe I was too abrupt in such a statement. I have no problem answering that question.

I love books. And I know there's a gap in the market in my locality, due to the fact there's only two book stores in my town and both are centralised in shopping centers. Both constantly have people in them though. The place I'm currently enquiring about, location wise, has no such shop in it though, and a pretty big passing trade of people. The location I'm currently researching would, in my opinion (and I'm obviously still researching it), have people passing by constantly, all day, every day. So the trick then is to get them inside....

I know ebooks have surged in popularity, but it seems to me that there is still a large contingency of people out there who don't buy online, either because they don't trust the internet or because they prefer to go in, browse and buy the book themselves. I understand that the net has cut into bookstore sales, and it's worth pointing out I have ideas to make it more than "just a bookstore", so to speak. I know the biggest struggle would be fighting people who buy online, but I do think a shop with the right attractions can still lure people in.

Bandara

I fear your 5 years away from the road that Xtravision etc finds itself at now.

Peterdalkey

We had a fantastic bookshop selling both new and used books and doing exchange books in Dalkey. It sadly closed just before the summer, people came from all over but just not enough business to sustain it. Dalkey has a big book festival and is known as the home of ma ny authors and writers, and still the shop closed.
I would be very fearful for your prospects with shop overheads. I would suggest you consider doing a combination of online and market type stalls, focussed on a small number of niches. You could use your site and stall to buy too!

Lplated

I hate being a 'naysayer' about anything, but particularly in respect of someone trying to start a business... but ...

It's not that long since Borders, a huge internatinal chain with supreme buying power, made a huge loss in Ireland, and closed, made a huge loss in England, and sold the rights to their business, and made a huge loss in America and then went bankrupt completely.

As an industry, publishing is struggling, the competition from tablets and e-readers is just too strong.

In an economy in recession, people are looking to save money. Books, for the most part, are a leisure 'discretionary' item - even where people are still buying, they will often browse in a bookshop but then buy cheaper online.

/End of negativity.

If you are going to go for something like this, you need a niche - and I don't mean specialising in a genre [like science fiction or something] - I mean a completely new way of doing things.

Maybe - look at self publishing sites and see if you could act as the main street outlet for [good] authors that dont have a publisher or agent yet - if you could manage that at least your product wouldn't be found anywhere else offline and you might 'find' the next big thing.

Maybe - look at opening an online bookstore first [but this will also be hard as you're competing with Amazon/ebay etc... ]

Maybe - look at pop-up shops, thus avoiding the heavy lease and key money that getting a bricks and mortar store involves.

sandin

I'll give an opposite viewpoint - yes there is space for bookshops. Many people like to flick through books before they buy, BUT you will have to make it an "experience" that they will enjoy and look for customer loyalty.

Also, look for some other products that complement the customer you are aiming for and also ensure a good selection of "bargain books"

Plenty of bookshops still doing well - Barker & Jones in Naas are always busy. Easons are doing a clomplete makeover of all their shops (they also have a franchise operation you may want to look at) and made a good trading profit last year (they made overall loss when property adjustment and one off costs were added)


You do have one advantage - rents are cheap. For a bookshop to survive, you need to be a prime location so that the other parts of the business can cover the costs. You will get a good size (2500sq ft) store in most good towns for about 30k a year.

If I were doing a bookshop, I'd have magazines, Lotto, small selection of confectionary, coffee bar - all in front half of the shop. And then the books in the back half. Have plenty of small seats to allow customers sit and read the books and hope that they buy them (you'll always have some wasters). Get as many of them on a mailing list and email them twice a month.

Qualitymark

I'm not a bookshop owner, first. Sorry for butting in...

Loved that Dalkey bookshop and was so sad to see it go, @Peterdalkey.

I'd serve coffee and cakes; most people who buy books are female, and you're much more likely to sell a book if they're coming in already for a snack and a chat. Rathgar Books, I think it's called, does this - a nook at the back - as do many other small shops.

Keeping magazines is a great idea.

What about looking for an SME course that'll teach you about pricing and overheads? FÁS (or whatever it's currently called) do these. Maybe try and get a placement working somewhere like the Sheela na Gig in Cloughjordan, Co Tipperary, a tiny bookshop that runs lots of lectures and readings by local writers and gives space to writers' workshops to have their meetings (several people from their workshops are now published by official publishers).

Watch out for the profit-grinding of book distribution; it used to be common practice, and perhaps still is, to provide books at a particular price to small shops, then drop the price drastically in the big chains, to the loss of both authors and small shops.

Sure, people are reading on Kindle and iPad, I do myself, but honestly I don't know how much of a market there really is. At one stage my own book of short stories was high in the charts for literary fiction on iTunes; I was outselling James Joyce! I had sold, I think, two copies.

Lord TSC

Peterdalkey wrote: »

We had a fantastic bookshop selling both new and used books and doing exchange books in Dalkey. It sadly closed just before the summer, people came from all over but just not enough business to sustain it. Dalkey has a big book festival and is known as the home of ma ny authors and writers, and still the shop closed.
I would be very fearful for your prospects with shop overheads. I would suggest you consider doing a combination of online and market type stalls, focussed on a small number of niches. You could use your site and stall to buy too!

It strikes me you're the type of person I was hoping would post on here, and I'd love to tap into your experience. Would you mind if I fired some questions over to you via the PM system with regards figures and start up costs? I know some people might not want to talk the specific details of their business ventures, but I'd love to get some information out of you if possible

And thanks for the posts so far. This topic is going exactly like I hoped it would, in terms of getting discussion on the topic.

I said above that I had ideas for it to be more than "just a bookshop" and the coffee bar idea provided by sandin is one of the things I was looking at. I'd be trying to provide a more intimate, cosy atmosphere than the big brand stores, and having a coffee area, some sofas and things like that would be a big part of creating that atmosphere. I adore the idea of getting new authors a place to sell their wares; I'm an unpublished author myself so I know how thrilled I'd be with the chance of having a shop offer to help push my titles. I'd also try and strike up other deals with local artists and the likes wishing to advertise their wares.

I've got a big note pad here I'm using to keep track of my research here and am writing in it constantly :P

I want to address this though...

Hammertime wrote: »

I fear your 5 years away from the road that Xtravision etc finds itself at now.

I know digitial distribution of print media is a constantly evolving beast, but I don't have the same fear for books as I do for movies, TV shows, etc.

In visual media, there's always been a constant evolution in distrubtion techniques; in my lifetime alone, I've seen video tapes change into DVDs, change into blue rays, change into online streaming. Likewise, music has gone from tapes to CDs to minidisc players to ipods.... but books are books. Yeah, some people will turn to eReaders, but I do think that there's always going to be a market for print media in the literary world. You've just got to make sure you market it correctly I guess....

That's not to say, again, that I'm blind to that competition which exists between the shop and the online store though. That's why I'm researching the business venture first...

Peterdalkey

There has been a big resurgance in the use of Public Libraries with free internet access, wifi, free newspapers and journals on hand plus a heated reading space!! and books by the ton to borrow for next to nothing! They now also lend ebooks. I would not open near one!!
Our Dalkey Book Exchange closed just before the newly refurbished Dalkey Public Library reopened!! I also see busy traffic in and out of the library in Cabinteely.

As other posters have pointed out, you could succeed if you make it a "destination" that also sells books!! You point out in one of your posts that there are already two existing bookshops in your town, does the town really need three?

Peterdalkey

you are more than welcome to PM me, our last posts crossed in the ether!

Qualitymark

Another thing you might do: talk to local schools about starting up a schoolbook rental scheme, run through your bookshop. (We always rented our schoolbooks each year in my schools; parents paid a deposit and a rent amount on each book, and if the book wasn't in good enough condition to put back out for rent the next year, they forfeited the deposit.)

Reader1937

Plenty of exp. in assisting startups.
The next sentence is important for any person looking at a new business.
Business is taking more money from people than you give out to people on a timely basis.
If you see money as the most important word in that sentence do not go into business. There is nothing without people. The timely basis bit is due to the fact that 60% of startups that fail in the first five years do so due to cash flow difficulties. They may have the money to pay, just not at the time it falls due.
Attracting people? Bookshops are atmosphere and look. This attracts people. Once inside you have to cater for the market. Know it and cater for it - your personal choices are worthless and the customer generally couldn't care less. Sell what sells. Pick a look and stick with it if it works, don't leave it patchy. I have no doubt the shop will have helpful staff.
Easons posted losses of 5 million last year - half of their losses from the year before and are becoming a book supermarket with only a popular skim from the top of each genre. You may have more competition from charity shops.
Stocks. Hope you don't mind me going imperial. Roughly 1" per bookspine. 1' per shelf height on average. Doesn't matter how high the ceiling is in the shop - go as high as people can reach - a 6' shelving unit has its last shelf base at 5'. Generally timber shelves can not have a span of over 3' unsupported before it starts to bend. So your units will be about 3' wide.
So a wall 30' long will have 10 units of 6 shelves each. 60 shelves at 36" (one per book) is close on 1000 books. Do not forget backup stock for popular reads. Do not understock shelves as NOONE likes going into a shop that looks like its going out of business. Give maybe 10% of your space to presentation and advertising. Finding a good carpenter may work better for you in the long run than using prefab shelves. If you do go with the carpenter - solid timber as a touch of class. People pay high prices in posh places. Not saying it is to be posh, but anything or anyone that has respect for itself gets more respect from others.
A comfortable chair or two with tea or coffee for those who have just purchased a book may work well.
If you want to combine the shop with an online business try something like Volusion.com - cheap to do and never a bad idea to have more than one string on the bow. SEO would be slow to start, but, again, way cheaper than ABE, etc. and you have a site where others are not competing with you.
Do a cash flow projection without too much hope. Books are cheap and you need to sell an awful lot of them to make any living.
Hope this helps, and good luck - it could work.
Anyway, just my current thoughts on it.

sandin

WH Smith posted record results yesterday - the bookshop aint dead yet!

Michael_Dare

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I know digitial distribution of print media is a constantly evolving beast, but I don't have the same fear for books as I do for movies, TV shows, etc.

In visual media, there's always been a constant evolution in distrubtion techniques; in my lifetime alone, I've seen video tapes change into DVDs, change into blue rays, change into online streaming. Likewise, music has gone from tapes to CDs to minidisc players to ipods.... but books are books. Yeah, some people will turn to eReaders, but I do think that there's always going to be a market for print media in the literary world. You've just got to make sure you market it correctly I guess....

Question for you: Have you bought and used a Kindle yourself?

The reason I ask is because with new technologies, it's very easy to misunderstand them if you haven't jumped in and experienced them directly. I've made this very mistake myself. The best advice I could give you would be to spend a couple of hundred euro on a kindle, use it for all your reading for two weeks, and see if you still feel the same about the future of printed books.

This one step could save you a fortune.

Glendambo

sandin wrote: »

WH Smith posted record results yesterday - the bookshop aint dead yet!

There is a huge difference between a well-established chain that also sells eBooks and an independent start-up bookshop that won't be providing eBooks.

OP, I think you would be nuts to go down this road if you aren't going to provide eBooks. Public libraries around the country provide eBooks and as another poster mentioned, libraries have experienced a resurgance in popularity due to the recession.

As someone who works in the library service and has some knowledge of the publishing industry, I would urge you to think long and hard about this.

padocon

Peterdalkey wrote: »

There has been a big resurgance in the use of Public Libraries with free internet access, wifi, free newspapers and journals on hand plus a heated reading space!! and books by the ton to borrow for next to nothing! They now also lend ebooks. I would not open near one!!
Our Dalkey Book Exchange closed just before the newly refurbished Dalkey Public Library reopened!! I also see busy traffic in and out of the library in Cabinteely.

I am sorry I can't be of much help but I'd like to add that the schools in the locality are not using books for their first years, they are using ipads. I feel that really says it all. In 6/7 years time the whole family will have e-readers and tablets, even mom and dad to help the children with their homework. I really think the product is key and if you don't have a good product you have nothing and I think hard cover books are slowly being less used. That said a new Easons opened in my local town so that says something. Good luck with this any how

Michael_Dare

padocon wrote: »

In 6/7 years time the whole family will have e-readers and tablets, even mom and dad to help the children with their homework.

More like 3 years. Google's Nexus 7 tablet was recently released to rave reviews. It's less than half the price of an iPad. Amazon are due to announce their new tablets next week, and they'll probably be a vast improvement on the Fire, and that hasn't even been out a year yet.

Next year will be a huge year for tablets, as they become non-luxury items, and once that happens, everyone and their grandmother will have one. With eBooks already outselling paperbacks on Amazon in the UK and the US, 3 years from now the figures could be 80/20 in their favour.

What then for book shops?

sandin

Glendambo wrote: »

There is a huge difference between a well-established chain that also sells eBooks and an independent start-up bookshop that won't be providing eBooks.

.

It wasn't ebooks they gave them their profit, it was re-organising many of their stores and providing a customer experience.

Same with Easons and their new look - far more enjoyable to browse in.

A bookshop on its own, just selling books and doing nothing else, won't survive, but a bookshop with added features so that you are not entirely reliant on book sales and in the right location will thrive especially with rents on the floor at present.

padocon

Michael_Dare wrote: »

More like 3 years.

My reasoning for 6 years was that that is how long it will take for all students to have ipads instead of books, because most schools roll them out for first years only. So by the time they move up into the system.

And you could be right, the sooner there is serious competition to challenge the ipad, the better.

Glendambo

sandin wrote: »

It wasn't ebooks they gave them their profit, it was re-organising many of their stores and providing a customer experience.

Thats an extrememly simplistic view tbh. You can't discount the fact that they provide eBooks, have large areas of the shops devoted to stationery, confectionery, magazines and provide online services. The fact that they are located in places like airports and train stations in the UK plays a huge factor also.

From their own website:

We are one of the UK's leading retail groups, with over 550 High Street stores and 440 Travel outlets at airports, train stations, hospitals and motorway service areas.

sandin wrote: »

A bookshop on its own, just selling books and doing nothing else, won't survive, but a bookshop with added features so that you are not entirely reliant on book sales and in the right location will thrive especially with rents on the floor at present.

Having a coffee dock and some comfy chairs in an independent bookshop is not in any way comparable to WH Smith or Easons and it's really naive to link the two tbh.

redandwhite

Worked in an independent bookstore. Very hard to do well unless you specialise.

Qualitymark

I'd take a drive or a hitch or a cycle or a bus around the country and talk to people running good small bookshops - like the award-winning one in Sligo town, and Sheelagh na Gig in Cloughjordan and - well, look up who was shortlisted for the Independent Bookshop Award (if that's what it's called) last year.

mikom

Will this bookshop also stock Betamax cassettes?

sandin

Glendambo wrote: »

Thats an extrememly simplistic view tbh. You can't discount the fact that they provide eBooks, have large areas of the shops devoted to stationery, confectionery, magazines and provide online services. The fact that they are located in places like airports and train stations in the UK plays a huge factor also.

From their own website:







Having a coffee dock and some comfy chairs in an independent bookshop is not in any way comparable to WH Smith or Easons and it's really naive to link the two tbh.

FFS - read the posts and understand business comparisons.

Wh Smith have made a profit by not having all their eggs in one basket. they are no longer just a bookshop / magazine shop. they diversified and they have improved the custoemr experience leading to higher sales and higher profits.

IN THE SAME WAY, a bookshop here can do well if it diversifies and does not totally depends on books to be the sole earner. It can diversify in a totally different way to wh smith to suit his local market. But the trick is to diversify and have soemthing the internet cannot give the customer - what that is will be down to understanding yiour own local market.

That's how you link the 2. Borders went under as did waterstones because the only thing they sold was books.

Glendambo

sandin wrote: »

FFS - read the posts and understand business comparisons.

Charming. Really charming. :rolleyes:

I understand business comparisons quite well thanks, I also understand where booksellers are at currently and where the market is going. I also understand that you really don't have much of in insight into this area at all and as such I hope the OP ignores your ridiculous "advice".

Michael_Dare

Glendambo wrote: »

I also understand ... where the market is going

You must have a crystal ball then, because nobody knows this. Companies like Amazon think they know, and many other companies are making guesses, but nobody really knows where the book market will be in 5 years, much less 10 or 20.

Balmed Out

I read a fair bit and hated the idea of ebooks. Couldnt understand how someone could get used to using them. However my wife bought me one for a birthday which I didnt use for 6 months. Going on holiday I decided to give it a go and save having a bag half filled with books. Ive not looked back since and may never by a physical book again. Be careful.

Peterdalkey

OP, reading through the posts again, I am not really sure you got the information you were looking for at the outset. However, I do think you did get valuable feedback which will be useful to you in assessing the opportunity. If you discount the most positive and the most negative, the sense I get is that most people fear for your chances of success.

Clearly you can never hope to compete with the big mixed product chains, who benefit from their massive purchasing power and rebates. They also benefit from many exclusive “captive” sales locations like hospitals, airports, railway station shops and the like.

The library competition is also a factor and the market for eBooks is flooded with rip off sites from China where you can buy every book ( circa 240 titles) that has appeared in the New York Times best sellers list for the past three years for Euro40, or all Jo Nesbo eBooks for under Euro 20, for example. Kindle have also dropped the price of their reader to just Stg£ 89.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

The exchange in Dalkey, a shop with a big customer base, and 20 years+ of operating, closing down should be the only thing you need to know to scrap the idea, as idyllic as it might be.

WH Smith are doing ok because they are in every airport in the UK dominating the book sales, and also the kiosk service in airports which is quite lucrative when you are selling a bottle of water for twice the standard rate
If your offering a cafe service, then you have a cafe cost in your startup which is not cheap. You are in effect starting two businesses with two sets of costs, staff and skillsets in a country where consumption has declined massively in the last few years. Both bookshops and cafes are declining so combining the two is a recipe for disaster. The generation of up and comers now do everything online. They even have parties online ffs, sitting in their rooms with beers on their laptops on skype video chat!! Thats the way the world is going....
How much margin is available on a book these days? I buy everything in airports because I travel a lot, and usually get 2 for 1 deals on the books I buy.
Without big purchasing power you wont be able to offer that, yet you will have to have not only have the latest books, but a big selection of best sellers, second hand books and so on to stay popular.

In general I would say its a bad idea to start a business in an industry on a downward curve, you are asking for trouble even if you are a genius of a businessman. You should consider looking at things in an upward trend to give yourself a chance from the start.
Not what you want to hear, but possibly what you need to hear on this one...