Thinking of starting up a bookshop; would appreciate stories of personal experience.

Reader1937

Remember every business is a gamble, but those who hedge their bets tend to make the most money. If you have a market, find a way of selling to it that makes money. Make money. If you don't - find a market. Most likely in this case you will have close to a perfect marketplace - so do what others do, but do the important things better, not perfect, but better.
If you wish to just speculate based on desire, declare a hobby value to the venture and invest only that. Either way, go in with your eyes open.
There was a comment previously - on visiting good bookshops directly and running a constructed interview which may answer your questions in a better way.
Regardless of your choice, I wish you the very best of luck.

Lord TSC

Thanks for the feedback all. I am taking it all into consideration.

Michael_Dare wrote: »

Question for you: Have you bought and used a Kindle yourself?

I have an iPad, but as previously started, I don't like ebooks. I much prefer the physical copies, but then I am also not naive enough to think that everyone is like that. Kindles and the likes are not for me.

padocon wrote: »

I am sorry I can't be of much help but I'd like to add that the schools in the locality are not using books for their first years, they are using ipads. I feel that really says it all.

Not taking a personal shot here, but I'd imagine you must come from a well off area if kids are being given ipads over books. I was working in a school last year in the locality and when that idea was brought up, it was laughed out the building due to the costs

That's not to say it's not a valid point but I don't think it's fair to do a blanket statement like "All kids will use ipads in school" since that's simply not an option for a lot of parents. Still, that's a different debate.

Peterdalkey wrote: »

OP, reading through the posts again, I am not really sure you got the information you were looking for at the outset. However, I do think you did get valuable feedback which will be useful to you in assessing the opportunity. If you discount the most positive and the most negative, the sense I get is that most people fear for your chances of success.

Yeah.

I'm grateful for people who decided to post and give me their feedback, and it has all been taken on board. I'm reading and re-reading every post. But Peter is right really; what I am still looking for is more intrinsic details about opening a book store, particularly people's experiences with start up costs.

Sadly, I'm not reading anything I don't already know. I know it's one of those industries which is in danger. But the thing I wanted to avoid was "I use kindles, ergo bookshops are redundant" and "I hate kindles, long live the bookshop". Both those comments are personal opinions and vary from person to person. Comments on the success of WH Smiths and the downfall of independent shops, actual examples of the rises and falls, are the most helpful. I just wish I could find someone who said "When i started up my shop, it cost me X amount to stock it up, there were Y fees for..." and so forth.

Again, not saying I'm ungrateful for any comments posted. I appreciate everyone's input. I just wish I could find the details as opposed to personal opinions...

"I love bookshops" is not a good reason to open a bookshop, I know. It's simply the basis of my research into what it takes to open one, and that question ("What does it take to open a bookshop?") is the one I'd love answers to.

Certainly going to try and make contact with some other Indy bookstores though. Really good suggestion, so thanks

CamillaRhodes

Just a quick comment as a consumer, rather than a business owner:

Agree wholeheartedly with the other posters that you have to offer more than just books: comfy couches for reading, coffee & tea, maybe even wine.

(I heard - possibly untrue, just rumour - that the guy who ran the Exchange in Dalkey had applied for a wine licence, with a view to turning it into a nice niche place to go for wine and read a book; there are plenty of cafes in Dalkey already. When he got turned down for his wine licence by the council (for reasons I can't understand) he decided feck it, he would close.)

Anyway... a little independent bookstore I visited in the US had a little flashcard with a 50 word review of the book on the shelf above it literally every couple of inches along every single shelf. This meant, as someone coming in to browse and explore new books, you didn't just judge the books by their cover. The reviews didn't have to be great detail, but just something about pacing, style, comparison to other authors, etc. It will require you (or your friends or whoever) to do a lot of reading, but this may be part of the fun of running your shop, and costs you nothing.

When I go to Amazon to look for a book, I always check the reader reviews to gauge whether i'm likely to enjoy it or not (though of course there are no guarantees of quality, it's a helpful starting point). This is something most of the big bookstores don't currently offer, which puts me off them and drives me back online.

Finally, Book Clubs. Book Clubs are huge at the moment, as people look for non-pub / cheaper evenings out. Run a book club from your store, where everyone meets in the store after hours; they buy the book every fortnight/month from you at a discounted rate, they buy a glass of wine or coffee from you... Most Book Clubs I know at the moment (that are proper structured evenings) are booked to capacity. Worth a pop anyway, will cost you nothing other than your usual operational costs.

sandin

May I suggest that you talk to Easons and see if their franchise program is suitable for you. Even if its not, it will give you an idea to costs and they won't mind giving all the info as even if you don't go franchise you would be using them as a supplier.


Ballpark, I would put 30k - 40k aside for stock, 20k for fit-out assuming basic fitout is already there and 10k for all the other bits and pieces.

On startup, you may be able to negotiate 50% of initial order on credit.

Reader1937

I agree with Sandin on bulking figures for a budget (was ever a budget bang on?), but also include rolling costs such as rates, insurance, (planning permit for a sign or two?), wages, IT, an accounts package (maybe have a look at sage one online), stationary and sundries. In a startup the more time you invest, the less money is required. These costs will crop up long before a return is seen in the business. The first return you do see is to be set aside for when these costs arise again. I can not say it loud enough - cash flow. Bankroll the business as best you can to begin with and it has a far better chance of getting by or taking off. An example would be a business I helped this year open a branch in Dublin - during a chat over renting the desired building it occurred to me that cash flow would be just as much an issue for the landlord as the new branch. I proposed paying the first year up front, but the second in monthly. Thousands was knocked off the price. Try every twist and turn you can.
Perhaps read Philip Murrays "Adventures of a book collector" if you want a good description of a good shop owner.
Give yourself time to think things through - all the way through. Do not at any stage rush if you can help it.

padocon

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Not taking a personal shot here, but I'd imagine you must come from a well off area if kids are being given ipads over books. I was working in a school last year in the locality and when that idea was brought up, it was laughed out the building due to the costs

Nope the 2 schools that are doing it are both public schools and the areas are by no means well off. They are average areas. The credit unions are giving loans to those that need them. I know there is the initial cost but the ebooks will certainly be cheaper than regular paper books.

That's not to say it's not a valid point but I don't think it's fair to do a blanket statement like "All kids will use ipads in school" since that's simply not an option for a lot of parents. Still, that's a different debate.

Well they will, eventually.

sandin

padocon wrote: »

Nope the 2 schools that are doing it are both public schools and the areas are by no means well off. They are average areas. The credit unions are giving loans to those that need them. I know there is the initial cost but the ebooks will certainly be cheaper than regular paper books.




Well they will, eventually.

I'd agree that school books will go electronic for most school kids fairly rapidly - 6 years is probably the time frame. Initial costs are already not much more than a set of new school books.

However I'd never touch schoolboooks anyway if I were a bookshop - 20% margin, a lot of pain and a huge stock and then also competing against all the online stores?

Doesn't add up unless you have already built the market up over the years.

lazeedaisy

Michael_Dare wrote: »

Question for you: Have you bought and used a Kindle yourself?The best advice I could give you would be to spend a couple of hundred euro on a kindle,

jeez last time i looked you could get one for a hundred! where are you shopping? Sure Tesco sell them for 110 euro.

We all own a kindle at home, but as has been mentioned here bookshops are full of people - i for one like to browse but never buy - and there are lots like me,

That said - they opened a new easons in carlow and the manager said he got lots of advice not to open! he said 50 shades is dong really well,

theres another way

Get in contact with The Gutter Bookshop on Twitter - they are really progressive and a terrific little bookshop in Temple bar. I don't know them personally but I'm constantly impressed by their tweets and have been in the store a good few times! They will probably be able to give you the figures and experience you need!

Also check out Accents coffee shop in Dublin City for another great example of a small shop that is doing things differently. Though their main business is in coffee in an area with lots of coffee shops, they also have a 'bring a book, take a book' scheme, non alcoholic comedy nights, regularly support local campaigns like 'Hello Dublin' etc...

Best of luck with your plans, what is deemed risky is entirely a matter of perception. Some people flush their money down the drain playing the lotto all their lives, others invest in shares that are eaten into over time by inflation and still others invest it in bricks and mortar that become a noose around their necks. If you try and succeed - you will have your dream job, if you try and fail - you will have a life changing experience, have met amazing people and can use that experience to move you forward. To me the bigger risk is not trying, but then again I am the eternal optimist

geeky

Without going down the 'don't do it' route, I'd chime in with the people advising you to develop other revenue streams - book readings, talks or other events, tea/coffee, products to improve the reading experience, even bloody one-act plays or unplugged live music. The small bookshops that survive are the ones that do this.

It's only by doing this stuff, which the big chains, pop-up discounters, Tesco and Ebooks really can't, that you can carve out a niche.

Mind if I ask what you did before? Maybe there's some overlap you could use to gain an edge?

Tapping girl

I think you should go for it. The Gutter Bookshop in Temple Bar would be worth a look and maybe the owner could give you some advice. He was the bookseller at the Dublin Literary Festival events which just shows that small can be beautiful. Also, Rathgar bookshop is worth a look. They now do coffees and plants!

Cork24

With E-books, Amazon Kindles making the way i don't know are you thinking of a dying business

Endlessly Manipulable

Loads of bookshops in Galway, was amazed at how busy they were when I was down the other weekend - I'd go down and check out how they do it, maybe look to speak to some managers/owners if you have the gumption :-)

The Guvnor

If you are lucky a famous american actress may just pop in one day!

On a serious note - if you were to specialise in a certain area that would be a good thing and then work on the online side of things even having an account with Amazon where you get a % without actually shipping the goods out.

Best of luck with the whole thing!

padocon

The Guvnor wrote: »

If you are lucky a famous american actress may just pop in one day!

On a serious note - if you were to specialise in a certain area that would be a good thing and then work on the online side of things even having an account with Amazon where you get a % without actually shipping the goods out.

Best of luck with the whole thing!

I presume you are talking about books that are self published because Amazon themselves buy the books in most cases. TBH it's pointless unless the book is not all ready on there (most are) and if its not, it is more than lightly self published. Good idea for self published books though.

RATM

I'm not a nay-sayer but I would agree with much of the sentiment on this thread regarding the future of printed books- it doesn't look healthy. Over on the bargain alerts forum there is a quality tablet selling for €55 and no doubt they will get down as low as €30 when other Chinese manufacturers enter the mix. No-one in 1995 would ever have thought that one day you could buy at microwave for €25 but you can. The prices of tablets are going the same way even quicker.

Added to that are all the kids will be using them as they become the cost of 3/4 weeks saved pocket money. Soon enough 95% of kids will have grown up with tablets and won't know a time when we didn't have them- just like an 18 year old today can't remember a time we didn't have mobile phones.

The post above mentions self publishing and this is where there might be a gap in the market. Every avid book fan is also a potential author and of this group a certain percentage will actually one day write a book, even if it is just to distribute to friends and family and local libraries . If you combined a bookstore with a self-publishing service (requiring an investment in paperback printing technology) then you could offer a service that would be unique (as far as I know) in Ireland- a bricks and mortar store that sells books by the major authors but also one where self published titles are for sale under the same roof.

So amongst self publishers you'd have two markets- those who do it to distribute to family and friends and those who are serious about becoming a full time author. For those who do it for family and friends you would probably have a print run in the order of 100-200 copies and could make a nice margin. For those who are more serious well their book is on the shelves and the market will decide.

For the second grouping what you'd essentially be hoping for is to catch the next big author. It could take 20 years to happen or it may not happen at all. Luckily Ireland is a country with a rich literary tradition so the odds of success are increased. Fifty Shades of Grey was initially self published. What you would need is a water tight legal contract with the author for royalties which would give you exclusivity and royalties.

Of course you don't or probably never will have the marketing prowess of the major publishers so any author would be mad to give you exclusivity on a permanent basis as if the book is a genuine hit in Ireland then chances are it would also be a hit in other english speaking countries where the thing holding the author back is distrbution channells, access to critics, etc. So the contract should have a sliding scale- the bigger the sales the less the royalty % you get- something that is equitable to both parties.

Even if you operate for 20 years and never find the next biggest selling author I still think there is a nice little niche for doing the printing for self publishers. There are of course internet based services doing this but you would have a USP of offering it for sale in a bricks and mortar shop which is a big step up for any author and one that would typically need the support of a major publisher. You'd essentially be giving budding authors a test market to see if their writing is well received.

But even the family and friends market could be well worth your while- printing and selling 200 odd books per author is not to be sniffed at. There is also the corporate market - my own brother in law is a partner in one of the Big Four and is currently writing a book for the layman on taxation - he is doing this to position himself as an expert on taxation with the idea being that it will bring in more business for his firm and also get his name known in the industry even more than it is now. He'll likely self publish it to being with. University lecturers would be another grouping- find out to the likes of Trinity / UCD have their own publishing capabilities- if not this is where you could come in. Also compliations of short stories by a number of Irish authors could be another possibility.

Anyway this is just an idea of a way to add value to your bookstore - I have zero expertise in this field. But I do know that in order to survive as a bricks and mortar book store you are going to have to offer something unique that nobody else is doing. I read this article and feel it would be helpful as there are a lot of links on self publishing websites, methods, etc.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-18438_7-10119891-82/self-publishing-a-book-25-things-you-need-to-know/

The Guvnor

padocon wrote: »

I presume you are talking about books that are self published because Amazon themselves buy the books in most cases. TBH it's pointless unless the book is not all ready on there (most are) and if its not, it is more than lightly self published. Good idea for self published books though.

No - what I meant was he could sell in his bookstore and then have an account with amazon where his website links to specific books on amazon and iirc the affiliate can earn upto 30% of the price and amazon will do the p&p etc.

There is iirc a better % for an exact link rather than one just to the amazon front page etc.