Scottish Football Reconstruction (Mod Note #55)

Dempsey

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

No team plays another team 6 times...


I don't know, why does it matter? The south american leagues use a points average of the past 3 seasons, doesn't mean we should copy them.


You haven't told us any yet, you've just said you don't like it. I'm actually interested in why people are against it.

In a season, you can play 3 times away from home against one team because of the split, to even this irregularity out you play that team at home the next time you are in the split causing another irregularlity in what is suppose to be a league season. Its stupid, you should play a team an even amount of times, home and away. Its the basics of a league season!

The split is alright because south american leagues have odd systems aswell? Rubbish tbh

I gave a few things that are inherently wrong with the split, you seem to have missed or ignored that.

Dempsey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20399047

Scottish Premier League clubs say they have unanimously agreed to pursue an expansion of the top flight.

Representatives of all 12 clubs met at Hampden to discuss reconstruction, in response to recent proposals from the Scottish Football League.

SPL clubs will meet again on 3 December to debate the matter further.

BBC Scotland revealed at the weekend that the SPL was considering the creation of two divisions of 12 with an extended play-off system.

Those attending the Hampden gathering chose not to divulge any details of the new plan, saying only that it would address the financial disparity between the top tier and the second tier, have a new model of fiscal distribution and reduce the number of meaningless games.

It is understood the two division set-up being explored would see the top league stick with 12 teams but split after two rounds of fixtures in which teams had met home and away.

The top eight clubs would then meet a further twice home and away, while the bottom four clubs would play against the top four of the new lower division of 12, made up of teams invited from the SFL.

These eight clubs would meet twice, home and away, with the bottom four clubs being relegated at the end of the season.

The bottom eight clubs in the lower division would also play-off against one another.

The SFL have been discussing a new way forward that would see a top tier of 16 teams.

The concept of an "SPL2" has long been mooted, with SFL clubs voting 22 to eight against further talks on teams joining a new second tier in 2007.

Seems the radical system is gathering pace amongst the clubs. Im not sure, need to think about it and hear more details of the plan

Broxi_Bear_Eire

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/201467-spl-clubs-agree-to-pursue-expansion-of-scottish-leagues-top-division/

Really more splits WTF listen to the fans for fecks sake

Dempsey

Pros & Cons from what I can gather so far

Pros

Irregular amount of H & A fixtures sorted out
Better relegation system (anything is better than 1up/1 down!)
More 'important' games (Alot of clubs will be looking to avoid and get into the 'middle tier')

Cons

SPL protecting its position for any merger by inviting 12 SFL clubs to give it more power in Scottish Football as a whole)
Split fixtures still decided based on current state of table rather than beginning of the season

Unknown
Voting Structure
Financial Structure

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Dempsey wrote: »

Pros & Cons from what I can gather so far

Pros

Irregular amount of H & A fixtures sorted out
Better relegation system (anything is better than 1up/1 down!)
More 'important' games (Alot of clubs will be looking to avoid and get into the 'middle tier')

Cons

SPL protecting its position for any merger by inviting 12 SFL clubs to give it more power in Scottish Football as a whole)
Split fixtures still decided based on current state of table rather than beginning of the season

Unknown
Voting Structure
Financial Structure

Still not happy at all with it the one that stands out for me and says it all

SPL protecting its position for any merger by inviting 12 SFL clubs to give it more power in Scottish Football as a whole)


Still to many cooks for me we are not a big enough nation to have Three governing bodies

Dempsey

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Still not happy at all with it the one that stands out for me and says it all

SPL protecting its position for any merger by inviting 12 SFL clubs to give it more power in Scottish Football as a whole)


Still to many cooks for me we are not a big enough nation to have Three governing bodies

The merger itself can still happen. What I meant by that is if this goes through, the merger will be SFL absorbed by the SPL rather than the SPL absorbed back into the SFL on the grounds that they are serving more clubs and all those clubs are at the upper end of professional football. I expect an aggressive response by the SFL to this proposal.

Eirebear

That's a nonsensical set up.

The Top 4 of the lower division will invariably struggle in the second "half" of the season against teams who have been playing top division football for half of the season.
It's hard enough for promoted teams to make the step up after a close season, let alone halfway through the season.

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

That's a nonsensical set up.

The Top 4 of the lower division will invariably struggle in the second "half" of the season against teams who have been playing top division football for half of the season.
It's hard enough for promoted teams to make the step up after a close season, let alone halfway through the season.

At the moment, there is a huge drop in funding between SPL and division 1 but that is suppose to be addressed in this proposal so clubs from division 1 can compete better (if managed right) than they would currently.

BhoscaCapall

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20581620

I don't get it tbh... two top flights of 12? Well there can't be two top flights, so basically it's how it is now but with two more teams in Div 1 (and under SPL jurisdiction)?

I assume I've got it wrong.

RoryMac

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20581620

I don't get it tbh... two top flights of 12? Well there can't be two top flights, so basically it's how it is now but with two more teams in Div 1 (and under SPL jurisdiction)?

I assume I've got it wrong.

Only in Scottish football is keeping a poor league format exactly as it is while the fans cry out for change seen as progress.

They have a great opportunity now to push ahead with changes that could breath some new life into the league but nope....

dsmythy

"However, after a three-hour meeting at Hampden, Doncaster emerged to say that agreement had been reached with a plan that would result in the two leagues splitting into three leagues of eight midway through the season."

Seems painfully convoluted!

BhoscaCapall

dsmythy wrote: »

"However, after a three-hour meeting at Hampden, Doncaster emerged to say that agreement had been reached with a plan that would result in the two leagues splitting into three leagues of eight midway through the season."

Seems painfully convoluted!

So for, say, Celtic, this will have basically no difference whatsoever. We'll play the same 10 or 11 teams as usual, then instead of playing 5 of them post-split we'll play 7

Broxi_Bear_Eire

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

So for, say, Celtic, this will have basically no difference whatsoever. We'll play the same 10 or 11 teams as usual, then instead of playing 5 of them post-split we'll play 7

That's about it different day same rubbish

Jelle1880

THE SPL and SFL look set to bury the hatchet over the way forward for Scottish football.
Talks between both parties and the SFA ended last night with the SPL chief Neil Doncaster hopeful their 12-12-18 model will become the agreed new set-up.

That would see David Longmuir and the SFL’s 16-10-16 scheme now SCRAPPED — with their clubs set to receive £350,000 more instead as SunSport exclusively revealed yesterday morning.

The amalgamation of the SPL and SFL into one body is still on the agenda and will be discussed by the Professional Game Board’s working party which meets later this month.

League chief executive Longmuir emerged after hearing the SPL’s proposals and said: “It was a very constructive meeting, one of the most encouraging I’ve been at for a long time.

“I feel we’ve established a lot of common ground. That’s what we’re going to take forward and build upon. We’ll hopefully meet again later this month.

“Everyone came to the table with a willingness to improve the game and do our best for the game.

“You would be amazed by the common ground we found between all of us.

“Don’t get hung up on the plans. It’s in the principles where we have loads of common ground. We are going to work on that.

“I’m not really too worried about the plans, in terms of the numbers, but there are areas where we all felt exactly the same about the game and how to take it forward.

“That was the really interesting aspect. There was a lot more to this than just the plans. It was about common ground, principles and the key things that matter to the game going forward.”

The make-up of the working group will be decided in the coming days but will consist of representatives from the SPL, SFL and SFA.

They will thrash out a set of concrete proposals, which will then be presented to all clubs for consideration in the New Year.

Dundee chief Scot Gardiner — on the SPL’s original steering committee for reconstruction — believes change WILL happen after yesterday’s talks.

He said: “It’s important for Scottish football we get a positive outcome from this.

“There are a lot of things that need fixed. It’s our duty to do that.

“I’m not a ‘rep’ for the SPL who has to sell it to the SFL clubs. I hope we’re given a fair hearing.

“But it’s obvious that the SPL will have to give up some money to make this happen.”

****e.

BhoscaCapall

The silver lining would be Longmuir being forced out. One less bluenose in the corridors of power will do Scottish football no harm.

TheBuilder

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

The silver lining would be Longmuir being forced out. One less bluenose in the corridors of power will do Scottish football no harm.

lol.

Regan, Doncaster etc etc are doing a great job.

BhoscaCapall

TheBuilder wrote: »

lol.

Regan, Doncaster etc etc are doing a great job.

They should have been sacked for their pathetic attempts at bending the rules to save Rangers, so no they're not.

Jelle1880

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

The silver lining would be Longmuir being forced out. One less bluenose in the corridors of power will do Scottish football no harm.

Longmuir surprised me with this and I think the extra money swayed him, but he's far better than Regan and Doncaster.

Eirebear

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

They should have been sacked for their pathetic attempts at bending the rules to save Rangers, so no they're not.

I wonder if you were able to hold a reasoned conversation before the bitterness and anger swallowed you up?

I'm dissapointed if this is true, the structure proposed by the SPL is nothing short of ludicrous in my opinion, and the exact opposite of what pretty much every supporter of Scottish Football has ben crying out for since the inception of the SPL and before.

While I admit, Rangers had a massive part to play in blocking these proposals in the past, along with Celtic, I find it absolutely astonishing that the likes of Aberdeen and Dundee Utd are now going against everything they've whinged and cried about over all these years.

Jelle1880

AT Aberdeen’s AGM on Wednesday it was time to re-elect the board of directors – including chairman Stewart Milne.

It went down to a show of hands. First to reinstate the building tycoon, where most were raised, followed by the objections.

One solitary hand rose. And the biggest surprise was the arm didn’t belong to Milne.

He certainly could be forgiven for wanting to bail after 18 long and fruitless years. The building tycoon certainly has enough on his plate with the housing market crash.

Milne has sunk fortunes into Aberdeen and his plans to build a shiny new stadium while buying up Pittodrie for flats looks to be in ruins.

Perhaps it’s understandable then the club in general looks so glum.

The stadium is in development hell and the debt close to £11million despite Milne and shareholders Aberdeen Asset Management writing off £5.75m in loans as shares.

The top table at the AGM looked like an Reverend I M Jolly convention.

Daily Record.

Dempsey

BBC Sportsday wrote:

Both Scottish league bodies have agreed in principle to a restructuring plan that would see the organisations merge in a 12-12-18 structure.

Both sets of clubs have still to vote on the proposals but a major breakthrough was made on Tuesday during a meeting of the main decision-makers in the Scottish Premier League, Scottish Football League and the Scottish Football Association.

So looks like we are heading for a failed system, considering that Scottish Football's 2nd tier is highly prone to postponements this will surely be canned after 2 seasons.

At least governance is to be streamlined, playoffs being introduced, a pyramid system & the financial model revamped will ease the blow of this doomed league structure. When the clubs go back to change the league structure, at least changing it should be an easier process.

Lennonist

Dempsey wrote: »

So looks like we are heading for a failed system, considering that Scottish Football's 2nd tier is highly prone to postponements this will surely be canned after 2 seasons.

At least governance is to be streamlined, playoffs being introduced, a pyramid system & the financial model revamped will ease the blow of this doomed league structure. When the clubs go back to change the league structure, at least changing it should be an easier process.

When are they intending to introduce this? Does it mean Rangers will spend one less season out of the top flight, or will it take longer to introduce than that providing Newco get successive promotions?

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Lennonist wrote: »

When are they intending to introduce this? Does it mean Rangers will spend one less season out of the top flight, or will it take longer to introduce than that providing Newco get successive promotions?

If Rangers go up season after season then it will take the same amount of time

Eirebear

Lennonist wrote: »

When are they intending to introduce this? Does it mean Rangers will spend one less season out of the top flight, or will it take longer to introduce than that providing Newco get successive promotions?

lol, nevermind the fact the idea is a complete and utter sham, or that Scottish football is on a knife edge.
"What does it mean for Rangers?" is the most important question on you're mind eh?

Mint Sauce

Dont really follow the Scotish League that closly, but just felt like Ally when they breifly tried explaining the set up on BBCR2 a few moments ago.

Eirebear

irish-stew wrote: »

Dont really follow the Scotish League that closly, but just felt like Ally when they breifly tried explaining the set up on BBCR2 a few moments ago.

It's a complete and utter joke of a system.

I can just imagine the meetings that took place.
"Right lads, people don't like the split, and they're getting bored of the 4 times a season system, feeling that they are playing the same teams too often.
We're losing money hand over fist and TV and sponsorship deals are suffering.
Any suggestions?"

"Well sir, I've been looking into an ouit dated system used by the swiss between 1988 and 200o, they created extra splits within the league system, and indeed made it harder for teams to get promoted and relegated due to this.
I'm sure our fans will love it!"

"Perfect! it's a plan!"

Dempsey

irish-stew wrote: »

Dont really follow the Scotish League that closly, but just felt like Ally when they breifly tried explaining the set up on BBCR2 a few moments ago.

Ally is like that most days though :pac:

• SPL proposal is for a 12-12-18 structure
• Top two leagues to split into three leagues of eight after 22 matches then play a further seven home and seven away games
• Leagues will be called Premier Division, Championship and National League
• Top eight teams to play for title and European places; middle eight to contest promotion and relegation in and out of Premier Division; bottom eight to decide who drops into National League
• 11 out of 12 SPL clubs need to vote in favour of plans, while the proposal requires approval of 23 out of 30 SFL clubs
• One league body to replace SPL and SFL

Basically this time next year, i.e. by the winter break, the 2 top leagues will split from 12-12 into 8-8-8, top 8 play for Europe, middle 8 play for SPL places and the bottom 8 fight it out in a relegation scrap to see who gets relegated to the national league.

Sounds alright in theory, better than the drab affair that currently exists but the problem is everyone going to have all their games played before the winter break? It didnt happen in the SPL or SFL1 this season so is the winter break going to be sacrificed for outstanding matches? Some clubs getting a full winter break whilst others suffer on? Several clubs would have 2-3 matches that have to be played before the split could happen.

I'd like the gimps in the SPL, SFL & SFA answer those questions publicly before the vote and what workaround has been tabled because once again, its a vote of no confidence from me in those who run the Scottish Game.

Lennonist

Eirebear wrote: »

lol, nevermind the fact the idea is a complete and utter sham, or that Scottish football is on a knife edge.
"What does it mean for Rangers?" is the most important question on you're mind eh?

I was asking when they intended bringing in these changes, you don't have to get smart about it. Were there any alternatives proposed if so what were they?

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

lol, nevermind the fact the idea is a complete and utter sham, or that Scottish football is on a knife edge.
"What does it mean for Rangers?" is the most important question on you're mind eh?

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/208960-rangers-director-accuses-hampden-chiefs-of-hypocrisy-over-league-plans/

Your Director of Communications, Jim Traynor, couldnt resist singling out about Celtic fans whilst having a rant against the league reconstruction. He's mad for a war of words with Celtic since he joined Sevco.

Pro. F

Since all this talk about reconstruction came about when Rangers went bust, and seemingly in direct response to that, it's hardly unreasonable for somebody to ask how the new structure will affect the new Rangers climb back to the top league.

BhoscaCapall

Eirebear wrote: »

lol, nevermind the fact the idea is a complete and utter sham, or that Scottish football is on a knife edge.
"What does it mean for Rangers?" is the most important question on you're mind eh?

After months and months of the SFA/SPL throwing all dignity and integrity out the window to desperately try and accommodate a new Rangers you can understand why people might be suspicious of their motives.

Anyway I think you'll find the general opinion among most SPL fans is that while these moves will more than likely benefit you lot, it's not worth cutting off the proverbial nose.

I don't really know what to think. The league system isn't great but I don't have as much as issue with it as most people. I'd rather play Dundee Utd 4 times a season than play them twice and Queen of the South twice. The main problem in Scotland is that there are too many clubs. Four divisions on top of the Highland leagues etc is ridiculous given the size of the country.

Eirebear

Lennonist wrote: »

I was asking when they intended bringing in these changes, you don't have to get smart about it. Were there any alternatives proposed if so what were they?

The SFL proposed a more straight forward 16-10-16 system which has been since cast aside it would seem.

Dempsey wrote: »

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/208960-rangers-director-accuses-hampden-chiefs-of-hypocrisy-over-league-plans/

Your Director of Communications, Jim Traynor, couldnt resist singling out about Celtic fans whilst having a rant against the league reconstruction. He's mad for a war of words with Celtic since he joined Sevco.

Not really surprised by this, and although i agree with him in principal (Why aren't clubs listening to the fans now?) I'll take everything traynor says with a pinch of salt, given his role at the club - and so should everyone else really.

Pro. F wrote: »

Since all this talk about reconstruction came about when Rangers went bust, and seemingly in direct response to that, it's hardly unreasonable for somebody to ask how the new structure will affect the new Rangers climb back to the top league.

Scottish Football has been talking about reconstruction for years now, the Rangers situation has changed the game a bit, by means of making Scottish football even more partisan than it already was, and creating a complete distrust of the SPL and SFA - but it's certainly not the key factor in something fans have been shouting about for years.

The McLeish report was finished in 2010, in the mid-90's the SFA developed their "Think Tank" report.
Both of which proposed reconstruction in the league system, both of which were largely ignored or voted down by member clubs.

Scottish football reconstruction is not a symptom of Rangers troubles, the paranoia surrounding it however, is.

BhoscaCapall

Eirebear wrote: »

Scottish football reconstruction is not a symptom of Rangers troubles, the paranoia surrounding it however, is.

How can you say it's paranoia when they already made a complete embarrassment of themselves trying to make space for Rangers in the summer? Although is has always seemed to the Rangers way, label every concern as paranoia regardless of how much evidence there is to support it.

Had it been us down the pan in the summer and the SFA falling over themselves to rescue us I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing.

Eirebear

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

After months and months of the SFA/SPL throwing all dignity and integrity out the window to desperately try and accommodate a new Rangers you can understand why people might be suspicious of their motives.

Anyway I think you'll find the general opinion among most SPL fans is that while these moves will more than likely benefit you lot, it's not worth cutting off the proverbial nose.

I don't really know what to think. The league system isn't great but I don't have as much as issue with it as most people. I'd rather play Dundee Utd 4 times a season than play them twice and Queen of the South twice. The main problem in Scotland is that there are too many clubs. Four divisions on top of the Highland leagues etc is ridiculous given the size of the country.

As i said above, the suspicions of the SPL/SFA are all encompassing now - no one trusts them, and no one likes them.
I agree, they made themselves look like complete arseholes by attempting to bribe(Bully), cowardly in fact.
They were'nt trying to save Rangers however, they're trying to save their own arses - something a lot of people can't quite grasp.

As for the league system - the Austrians tried it between 85 and 93, the Swiss between 88 and 2000.
Both times it led to a drop in commercial revenue, and a drop in attendances at matches.
It's a failed, out dated system. Much like our governing bodies.

Eirebear

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

How can you say it's paranoia when they already made a complete embarrassment of themselves trying to make space for Rangers in the summer? Although is has always seemed to the Rangers way, label every concern as paranoia regardless of how much evidence there is to support it.

Had it been us down the pan in the summer and the SFA falling over themselves to rescue us I'm sure you'd be saying the same thing.

Are you trying for an argument here, or would you rather talk about the point in hand?

Paranoia exists among the Rangers support, among the Celtic support and among every other club in Scotland at the moment BECAUSE of how the SFA and SPL have handled the situation.
If you want to call it another term, call it suspicion, distrust, whatever - it all comes under the same umbrella, scottish football has become more divided and partisan than it has ever been for these reasons.

BhoscaCapall

Eirebear wrote: »

As i said above, the suspicions of the SPL/SFA are all encompassing now - no one trusts them, and no one likes them.
I agree, they made themselves look like complete arseholes by attempting to bribe(Bully), cowardly in fact.
They were'nt trying to save Rangers however, they're trying to save their own arses - something a lot of people can't quite grasp.

Every fan I've spoken to of other clubs, both in Scotland and outside think the SFA were trying to throw yous a lifeline. It's only you lot who think they weren't and quite frankly most people found it fairly hilarious how you all turned on your masters.

Anyway if we can find common ground in hating the corrupt SFA, even if it's for different reasons then so be it. Maybe we can unite on improving the league system instead of bickering.

If you want to call it another term, call it suspicion, distrust, whatever - it all comes under the same umbrella, scottish football has become more divided and partisan than it has ever been for these reasons.

These terms are not synonymous. Paranoia implies the concerns are unfounded and the product of misplaced suspicion rather than something genuine. You already knew that.

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

Scottish Football has been talking about reconstruction for years now, the Rangers situation has changed the game a bit, by means of making Scottish football even more partisan than it already was, and creating a complete distrust of the SPL and SFA - but it's certainly not the key factor in something fans have been shouting about for years.

The McLeish report was finished in 2010, in the mid-90's the SFA developed their "Think Tank" report.
Both of which proposed reconstruction in the league system, both of which were largely ignored or voted down by member clubs.

Scottish football reconstruction is not a symptom of Rangers troubles, the paranoia surrounding it however, is.

League Reconstruction has been fast-tracked because Celtic & Rangers cant vote down what they dont like anymore like they could and would last season and seasons gone by. Whilst the voting system remains the window of opportunity for change exists only whilst Rangers & Celtic remain governed by different bodies.

I think fans could yet threaten boycotts but the desperation for change is still there and there is alot of positive items on the table thats going to the vote aswell, the 12-12(8-8-8)-18 structure is the only negative at the moment in the plans.

With the sponsorship contracts ending this season, its a good opportunity to do the changes. If Rangers get back to the SPL without changes happening, its a guarantee that they and Celtic will invariably begin voting the same way again.

Eirebear

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Every fan I've spoken to of other clubs, both in Scotland and outside think the SFA were trying to throw yous a lifeline. It's only you lot who think they weren't and quite frankly most people found it fairly hilarious how you all turned on your masters.

Anyway if we can find common ground in hating the corrupt SFA, even if it's for different reasons then so be it. Maybe we can unite on improving the league system instead of bickering.

Again, i refer you to the points regarding paranoia, suspicion, distrust, scottish football becoming more partisan etc.

if you really think Doncaster and Regan were trying to do anything other than save their own arses by proxy of Rangers and TV deals, then i think you may want to look at it all again.

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

As i said above, the suspicions of the SPL/SFA are all encompassing now - no one trusts them, and no one likes them.
I agree, they made themselves look like complete arseholes by attempting to bribe(Bully), cowardly in fact.
They were'nt trying to save Rangers however, they're trying to save their own arses - something a lot of people can't quite grasp.

As for the league system - the Austrians tried it between 85 and 93, the Swiss between 88 and 2000.
Both times it led to a drop in commercial revenue, and a drop in attendances at matches.
It's a failed, out dated system. Much like our governing bodies.

The Austrians wanted to introduce a top league of 10 without relegation in the time after their attempt at this system so its hard to say that what didnt work for Austria wont work for Scotland when they are clearly going in a direction that Scottish Football doesnt want at all!

Eirebear

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

These terms are not synonymous. Paranoia implies the concerns are unfounded and the product of misplaced suspicion rather than something genuine. You already knew that.

Are we going to talk semantics, really?
"Paranoia" implies that Scottish Football fans are, as usual, in the dark over this - they have absolutely no trust of anyone in charge of the game, and are reverting to a base feeling that they are being done over.

Now let's get back to reality shall we?

Dempsey wrote: »

League Reconstruction has been fast-tracked because Celtic & Rangers cant vote down what they dont like anymore like they could and would last season and seasons gone by. Whilst the voting system remains the window of opportunity for change exists only whilst Rangers & Celtic remain governed by different bodies.

I think fans could yet threaten boycotts but the desperation for change is still there and there is alot of positive items on the table thats going to the vote aswell, the 12-12(8-8-8)-18 structure is the only negative at the moment in the plans.

With the sponsorship contracts ending this season, its a good opportunity to do the changes. If Rangers get back to the SPL without changes happening, its a guarantee that they and Celtic will invariably begin voting the same way again.

Can't disagree with anything you've said there, which raises the question as to why the SPL clubs didn't get the voting structure changed immediately, when they had the chance?
That little inkling that Aberdeen and/or Hibs/Dundee Utd could garner themselves a little bit of power by replacing rangers in the voting system is symtomatic of everything that is wrong with our game.

dreamers75

http://rangers.co.uk/news/opinion/item/3085-remember-sporting-integrity

:eek:

Pro. F

Eirebear wrote: »

Scottish Football has been talking about reconstruction for years now, the Rangers situation has changed the game a bit, by means of making Scottish football even more partisan than it already was, and creating a complete distrust of the SPL and SFA - but it's certainly not the key factor in something fans have been shouting about for years.

The McLeish report was finished in 2010, in the mid-90's the SFA developed their "Think Tank" report.
Both of which proposed reconstruction in the league system, both of which were largely ignored or voted down by member clubs.

Scottish football reconstruction is not a symptom of Rangers troubles, the paranoia surrounding it however, is.

That's fair enough. But it doesn't change the fact that for outsiders (people who are not up on all the details) all the big moves for reconstruction came as soon as Rangers went down. And unless I'm very much mistaken there were proposals for Rangers to be fast tracked back to the PL. So all that makes it reasonable for people to ask how the new structure directly affects Rangers. You taking issue with people asking those questions is silly.

Eirebear

Dempsey wrote: »

The Austrians wanted to introduce a top league of 10 without relegation in the time after their attempt at this system so its hard to say that what didnt work for Austria wont work for Scotland when they are clearly going in a direction that Scottish Football doesnt want at all!

Which links to my earlier point actually - this system makes it very hard for teams to get promoted given the disrepancies between the upper and lower tiers.

In Switzerland, 16 out of the 48 potential promotions were won, 4 out of the 12 years saw no promotion/relegation at all.
In Austria they fared slightly better, however still less than 50% of potential promotions were won, with 13 out of 28.

We've been complaining for years that our league is stagnating, this won't help imo.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Right for everyone going on about Rangers being fast tracked and the SFA trying to push this thing through so Rangers can pushed into the the top flight quicker. Well they made an awful mess of it if they did. With these new proposals Rangers presuming they get promotion in successive seasons will take the same amount of time to get back as it would if things stayed the same. So can we get back to the reconstruction and leave Rangers out of it

Eirebear

dreamers75 wrote: »

http://rangers.co.uk/news/opinion/item/3085-remember-sporting-integrity

:eek:

I think he's right - in principle - although as i've stated earlier, the obvious bias shouldn't be taken lightly when forming an opinion.
Less than a year ago we heard from clubs in the SPL talk about how it would be "suicide" not to listen to the fans, now however - they're not giving a flying **** about what the fans say.

Pro. F

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Right for everyone going on about Rangers being fast tracked and the SFA trying to push this thing through so Rangers can pushed into the the top flight quicker. Well they made an awful mess of it if they did. With these new proposals Rangers presuming they get promotion in successive seasons will take the same amount of time to get back as it would if things stayed the same. So can we get back to the reconstruction and leave Rangers out of it

Nobody is "going on" about Rangers being fast tracked. What a moronic post.

Lennonist

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Right for everyone going on about Rangers being fast tracked and the SFA trying to push this thing through so Rangers can pushed into the the top flight quicker. Well they made an awful mess of it if they did. With these new proposals Rangers presuming they get promotion in successive seasons will take the same amount of time to get back as it would if things stayed the same. So can we get back to the reconstruction and leave Rangers out of it

OK daddy:pac:

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Pro. F wrote: »

Nobody is "going on" about Rangers being fast tracked. What a moronic post.

There are umpteen posts going on how it was planned last year. I merely pointed out that they didn't do a very good job of it if that was there plan. Less of the personal attacks please they just make you look stupid

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Lennonist wrote: »

OK daddy:pac:

Just pointing out a fact if I was your auld man you wouldn't be a tic fan

Pro. F

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

There are umpteen posts going on how it was planned last year. I merely pointed out that they didn't do a very good job of it if that was there plan.

You were clearly referring to the posts made today questioning how it would affect Rangers.

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

Less of the personal attacks please they just make you look stupid

Lol.