Scottish Football Reconstruction (Mod Note #55)

Jelle1880

It has been accepted by the SPL clubs it seems.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It has been accepted by the SPL clubs it seems.

they did this before with the 12 12 18 proposal only for two clubs to turn around and say no when it came to the formal vote. hope it doesnt happen again

snaps

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Chris Jack ‏@Chris_Jack89 51m
SPL announce a new single merged league of 42 clubs will be formed. 12-10-10-10 structure, play-offs to the top flight and new finance model

excuse me for sounding ignorant, how does this improve Scottish football? Isn't the current spl made up of 12 teams?

Dempsey

snaps wrote: »

excuse me for sounding ignorant, how does this improve Scottish football? Isn't the current spl made up of 12 teams?

• Single governing body for all 42 senior clubs
• New promotion/relegation play-offs between top two divisions
• Revised financial distribution model
• Pyramid structure below the fourth tier

All far more important changes than the format of the SPL

PauloMN

I presume the split will remain, given that we're still talking about 12 teams in the top tier?

Other than that, the changes seem positive to me. Playoffs would make the end of season more interesting, certainly for some teams, and I like the idea of one governing body.

Jelle1880

If anything, cats might have been easier to control than the leaders of the 12 clubs who reached consensus yesterday after talks on league reform which began when Methuselah was still at school.

If anything demonstrated how difficult it is for them to agree on anything, it was the obvious pleasure they took from unanimously supporting changes which will make such a limited difference to supporters' actual experience next season. The assorted alterations agreed in principle yesterday were positive, welcome and overdue, but if this was cherry-picking the fruit is small. If this was the end of the latest phase of discussions on "league reconstruction" they have concluded with no change to the size of the top division, its end-of-season split, or teams playing each other four times in a season. There was a breakthrough yesterday, some steps in the right direction, but no-one could have felt an irresistible urge to pop any champagne corks.

"It's been like going shopping with your daughters, it takes forever and a time to get shoes," said Ralph Topping, the SPL chairman after around five hours of talks at Hampden resulted in consensus. "We've been in and out the shoe shop a number of times. We've gone in today and managed to get the right colour of shoes, the right size of shoe and everybody is quite happy."

The SPL's problem is that it has 12 equal shareholders, but there are enormous differences in the wealth, priorities and economies of scale within those dozen clubs. Celtic and Ross County, for example, have everything in common and nothing. The web of self-interest and anxiety which informs the SPL chairmen's decision-making amounts to a handbrake being put on any attempt to implement even cosmetic, never mind radical, change.

Topping's full-time job is as chief executive of William Hill plc. There, deals can sail through. "I've dealt with some very complex transactions in the last six months. We bought a partner out for £450m and we bought a business in Australia for £450m. That was done in a the blink of an eye compared with some of the things happening here. This is a difficult organisation to point in the same direction. Normally we would go straight to a boardroom vote for ratification, but we're dealing with football and that can be slow and ponderous at times."

That was putting it mildly. Glaciers move faster. So where is Scottish football after yesterday? If the agreement in principle is ratified by the SPL and the Scottish Football League – and surely it must be? – both will cease to exist to be replaced by something likely called the Scottish Professional Football League. The SPL will end as an entity after 15 years and the Scottish League after 123. That streamlining is overdue. A rule book and articles of association have been drawn up over recent weeks. An 11-1 voting requirement for issues affecting top flight clubs will be retained.

The play-offs will provide end-of-season stimulus for the bottom of the SPL and top of the First Division, helping to maintain competitiveness even in those years when one club becomes detached. That, too, is long overdue, although it will have little effect for most of the top division clubs. From the end of the 2014-15 season the team which finishes bottom of the fourth tier will face a play-off with a non-league team as a pyramid structure begins.

The most significant change is the financial distribution model which will transform the income of the First Division clubs, eroding the discrepancy between them and those in the SPL. This should remove the infamous "financial armageddon" experienced by any relegated club. Instead of the First Division champions receiving around £70,000 they'd get around £380,000. The prize money for all of the top eight in the SPL would be reduced so that it could be shared through the second tier. With a single body, the annual £2m payment from the SPL to the SFL would go into the main pot and so would the SFL's £1m television income for Rangers games.

Positions have changed repeatedly during this wearisome saga, consensus has been achieved and lost. We were told there could no cherry-picking of the "good" parts without the extra television money which could be raised by splitting two top tiers of 12 into three mini-leagues of eight. It turns out they could do it after all. The country's sheer exasperation with it all must have helped bang heads together yesterday. "It would be stupid for us to look back and say 'the SPL didn't work' and not look at some of the positives which came out of being in the SPL," said Topping. "We've had some success in Europe, with Celtic and Rangers getting to finals since the SPL has been around. We've had the famous 'helicopter Sundays'."

In fact, the SPL will have few mourners and a rebirth will dilute its toxicity. Its clubs reached a consensus yesterday which was not driven by a compulsion to look after No.1. After 15 years, there is a first time for everything.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/if-this-is-a-cherry-pick-then-the-fruit-is-small.21023629

I'm not a fan of the 1m of Rangers televised games going into the pot.

But all in all it looks like a decent proposal.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/if-this-is-a-cherry-pick-then-the-fruit-is-small.21023629

I'm not a fan of the 1m of Rangers televised games going into the pot.

But all in all it looks like a decent proposal.

Far from perfect, never was going to be a silver bullet to the proplem, but far far superior to the status quo and hopefully allows the setup to change with more ease in future.

If and when this vote goes through the next contentious isses will be part time clubs voting on full time issues and vice versa.

And i saw the 1st ninja edit! :pac:

EDIT RE: 2nd ninja edit

Why are you unhappy at the Rangers deal for the SFL being absorbed into the deal? Collective bargaining is essential for Scottish Football and a key part to the new financial model.

Jelle1880

Because we were always told that they didn't need Rangers

The fact that the Rangers TV deal is being included isn't so bad, but the fact that the illegal transfer embargo stands is a joke.
The SPL are also still keeping money back that belongs to Rangers.

edit: I might have to rethink my statement that it's a decent proposal, seems like for the SFL not much will change regarding money.
I doubt SFL 2 and 3 will see much, if any of the money.

Vote might be closer than the SPL want it to be.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Because we were always told that they didn't need Rangers

The fact that the Rangers TV deal is being included isn't so bad, but the fact that the illegal transfer embargo stands is a joke.
The SPL are also still keeping money back that belongs to Rangers.

Why should the transfer embargo be lifted because of reconstruction?

Jelle1880

It has to do with the Rangers TV deal being included, not the reconstruction as a whole.

They expect Rangers to just put the TV money in a pot for all clubs to enjoy, but still uphold a ban that has been found illegal in court.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It has to do with the Rangers TV deal being included, not the reconstruction as a whole.

They expect Rangers to just put the TV money in a pot for all clubs to enjoy, but still uphold a ban that has been found illegal in court.

Ye wouldnt have a pot to piss in only for the SFL & its clubs. Try telling them no and see where it lands ye.

You think the SPL & SFL would allow one club to have a separate deal now? Thats a fight you would lose badly

Jelle1880

It wasn't the SFL who imposed the illegal transfer ban, they have nothing to do with it.

Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with the money of the TV deal being included in the pot, but only if certain actions are taken (removal of the transfer ban for starters, and I believe there is also prize money still being kept by the SPL or SFA).

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It wasn't the SFL who imposed the illegal transfer ban, they have nothing to do with it.

The SFA issued your transfer embargo as part of a deal for SFA membership and it was the SFL that struck your TV deal and now its the SPL & SFL amalgamating organizations. Pretty pointless using the TV deal to have a moan about the transfer embargo imo

EDIT

You agreed to certain terms for SFA membership and a SFL license. Your opportunity for appealing the terms of these deals has come and gone. Just have to take yer medicine

Jelle1880

Everyone knows Rangers were blackmailed into accepting the deal.
But I'm not particularly shocked that you think Rangers should just get on with it.

If only you had the same ideals when Lennon gets punished again for his behaviour

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Everyone knows Rangers were blackmailed into accepting the deal.
But I'm not particularly shocked that you think Rangers should just get on with it.

If only you had the same ideals when Lennon gets punished again for his behaviour

Blackmailed? LOL

Funny that Sevco went on to make millions as a result of that "blackmail", I feel so sorry for Charles Green and the hardship he endured in his money making scheme :rolleyes:

Jelle1880

Yes, blackmailed.

The transfer ban was found illegal in court, then they put it in the terms to get the license anyway.

So either Rangers accepted it or didn't get a license at all.

That's blackmail.

Dempsey

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Yes, blackmailed.

The transfer ban was found illegal in court, then they put it in the terms to get the license anyway.

So either Rangers accepted it or didn't get a license at all.

That's blackmail.

Termination of membership was the alternative punishment according to the SFA rulebook if they werent allowed to issue any punishment they deem appropriate. Lord Glennie issued a judgement that didnt suit Charles Green or the SFA, thats why the transfer embargo is still there.

The only blackmailing that went on was between Green & Whyte.

premierstone

lol the irony of a Rangers fan complaining about money being owed I swear a little pee just cam out I laughed so hard!

Dempsey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22575673

League restructuring appears to be on course for next season following a meeting of all 30 Scottish Football League clubs.

• A plan to perform due diligence on the proposed merged league body
• The distribution model to be put to the SPL
• The governance model, which would mean a board made up of three top league representatives and one from each of the other leagues

They havent quite agreed on everything the SPL have but things seem to be on the right track. The due diligence hopefully will give more confidence.

Dempsey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22601342

Scottish Premier League clubs have rejected amendments from the Scottish Football League to the top tier's plan for restructuring the league system.

SFL clubs wanted some of the money going to First Division clubs to filter further down to the levels below, but that was rejected by SPL clubs.

Hmmm, wonder what the SFL will do now. I'm thinking this was just a shot in the dark for the SFL clubs to get a bigger piece of the pie but hopefully this wont snowball into something else.

Eirebear

Dempsey wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22601342

Scottish Premier League clubs have rejected amendments from the Scottish Football League to the top tier's plan for restructuring the league system.

SFL clubs wanted some of the money going to First Division clubs to filter further down to the levels below, but that was rejected by SPL clubs.

Hmmm, wonder what the SFL will do now. I'm thinking this was just a shot in the dark for the SFL clubs to get a bigger piece of the pie but hopefully this wont snowball into something else.

If the money doesn't filter below the 1st division then it doesn't really fix anything, it just creates a different 2 tier system from the one we already have imo.

We really need to look at overhauling the whole bloody thing, to use a well worn cliche "from the grassroots up".
Working from top to bottom hasn't really gotten us anywhere.

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

If the money doesn't filter below the 1st division then it doesn't really fix anything, it just creates a different 2 tier system from the one we already have imo.

We really need to look at overhauling the whole bloody thing, to use a well worn cliche "from the grassroots up".
Working from top to bottom hasn't really gotten us anywhere.

The biggest issue in Scottish Football is the lack of proper parachute payments from the SPL to SFL1. The SFL2 & SFL3 should have some knock on effects in the changes aswell but it seems they want a bigger slice

The introduction of the pyramid system below the SFL & new financial model addresses much of the changes your suggesting tbh

There isnt any major aspect overlooked besides the size of the leagues which is ver contentious and off the table at the moment.

Badabing

All the uncertainty isn't good for the SPL regarding the league sponsors, I don't think they have replaced Clydesdale Bank yet and in 3 years time when the a TV deal is due for renewal.

Dempsey

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22638556

Scottish Football League clubs will formally vote on proposals for league restructuring on 10 June but an initial show of hands has cast doubt on whether the measures will gain enough support.

An SFL motion needs the support of 22 clubs to be passed.

But a show of hands at Thursday's AGM indicated only 16 clubs are in favour.

Following the meeting, the 10 First Division clubs left for a separate meeting.

Earlier, Hamilton chairman Les Gray reiterated his stance that the clubs in Scotland's second tier would pursue a 22-club solution - involving the SPL and First Division sides - if the existing 42-club proposals do not gain enough support.

June 10th, D-Day for Scottish Football.

Dempsey

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/aberdeen/229116-scottish-football-league-clubs-pass-league-reconstruction-vote/

Scottish Football League clubs vote 23-6 in favour of reconstruction plans at EGM

Scottish Football League clubs have voted in favour of league reconstruction, paving the way for the creation of a new Scottish Professional Football League.

So, its the SFPL we will have to type in future...

Glad to see common sense beginning to prevail in Scotland

Jelle1880

Won't change much if the same people stay in charge...

But I think it'll be good for lower league teams especially.

Dempsey

BBC Gossip wrote:

The merger of the Scottish Premier League and Scottish Football League is under threat as SFL accountants raise concerns over due diligence. (Various)

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-bombshell-annan-chief-launches-2001954

ANNAN chairman Henry McClelland last night sent a letter to each of the nine-man SFL board advising them to consult their solicitors before voting to merge with the SPL at Hampden today.

The 11th-hour bombshell came in a detailed warning that due diligence needs to be done before the SFL
volunteers to end its 123-year history.

Otherwise there could be personal liabilities faced by those who create financial loss for the lower-league clubs.

Surely, he should have raised this issue long before now if it was a serious question mark over due diligence? Seems like someone having a moan about change to me

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/names-confirmed-board-next-as-spfl-comes-into-being.21437557

All 42 clubs will meet at Hampden to formally constitute the new SPFL, agree its rules and regulations, and decide its board members and office-bearers. Neil Doncaster, the Scottish Premier League chief executive, is expected to be appointed rather than David Longmuir, his Scottish Football League counterpart, although that decision will not be made today. Instead, a recruitment procedure will be set in motion for the new chief executive's job but Doncaster could be given the position next month.

I hope someone else gets the job and not David Longmuir either

Dempsey

From

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23079880

Representatives of all 42 clubs gathered at Hampden on Thursday but there has been no meeting involving all parties.

The delay centres on the SFL board's request for more financial information about the new league set up.

The meeting at the national stadium has been adjourned until 19:00 BST.

The SPL and SFL were meeting to agree on the formation of a new Scottish Professional Football League.

That gaff to

Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug 2m

SPL and SFL finally agree to merge after a marathon meeting at Hampden. Still looking to elect a board tonight. #restructuring

Feels like the night the bank guarantee was approved...

blahfckingblah

Dempsey wrote: »

Feels like the night the bank guarantee was approved...

and every bit as corrupt