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Landlord seeking rent for 4 months after contract and notice given.

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  • 23-08-2012 1:27pm
    #1
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭


    Hi there,

    posting this on behalf of a friend of mine who's not on Boards.ie.

    He was in a 6 month contract from August 2009 - Feb 2010.
    He moved out in May 2012. He wrote to his Landlord, and gave a month's notice. He received no reply from him, and moved out.

    He has now been contacted by the Landlord, seeking rent for May, June, July and August of 2012.

    The Landlord is refusing to admit he received the letter from my friend, and as he did not register the letter, he can't prove it.

    Where does my friend stand if the Landlord decides to make a claim via legal methods?


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    #2
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    RoyalMarine wrote: »
    Hi there,

    posting this on behalf of a friend of mine who's not on Boards.ie.

    He was in a 6 month contract from August 2009 - Feb 2010.
    He moved out in May 2010. He wrote to his Landlord, and gave a month's notice. He received no reply from him, and moved out.

    He has now been contacted by the Landlord, seeking rent for May, June, July and August of 2010.

    The Landlord is refusing to admit he received the letter from my friend, and as he did not register the letter, he can't prove it.

    Where does my friend stand if the Landlord decides to make a claim via legal methods?

    So when he moved out did he hand back the keys to the landlord?
    What about deposit?

    I can't believe his landlord just found out that the place is empty? and not paid for?


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    #3
    thewools
    Registered Users Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭thewools


    RoyalMarine wrote: »
    He was in a 6 month contract from August 2009 - Feb 2010.

    He moved out in May 2010.

    Did your friend sign a new 6 month contract starting in Feb / March 2010?

    If not, then happy days..


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    #4
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    Sorry guys, small update.

    They stayed there until may 2012. The landlord is claiming for rent for the last 4 months.

    They were out of contact since Feb 2010, and they never signed a new contract.

    They gave the landlord the month's notice, and on the final day they put the keys in his letterbox as he was away that day.


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    #5
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    One other question regarding this too.

    A water pipe burst in the attic when they were living there, caused a lot of damage to the walls of the house.
    My friend paid for the plumber to fix everything, and they re-painted all the walls in 3 of the rooms.

    The garden was also in a real bad state, and attracted a lot of flies etc. They ended up paying to get the grass removed and stones etc put in.

    They tried to contact the landlord regarding all the issue's above, but were unable to do so.

    The landlord also kept their deposit.


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    #6
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    RoyalMarine wrote: »
    One other question regarding this too.

    A water pipe burst in the attic when they were living there, caused a lot of damage to the walls of the house.
    My friend paid for the plumber to fix everything, and they re-painted all the walls in 3 of the rooms.

    The garden was also in a real bad state, and attracted a lot of flies etc. They ended up paying to get the grass removed and stones etc put in.

    They tried to contact the landlord regarding all the issue's above, but were unable to do so.

    The landlord also kept their deposit.

    Think you need to contact threshold/ptrb about this. If landlord couldn't be contacted in the past, and your friend has receipts for paying to the contractor (he shouldn't do that, it is the owner responsibility, not the tenants), then it seems like landlord is chancing his arms really.

    Good luck, and do not pay the owner any money, get some proper advice before you speak to him again.


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    #7
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,902 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Heres the usual relevant information -

    Part 4 tenancies

    Under Part 4 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004, if you have been renting for at least 6 months and haven't been given a written notice of termination, you automatically acquire security of tenure in 4-year cycles. Any tenancy, therefore, that has lasted more than 6 months is a 'Part 4 tenancy' or a 'further Part 4 tenancy'. After 4 years of your tenancy has passed, a new tenancy starts. The same 4-year cycle can begin again, leading to a further Part 4 tenancy.

    When you have acquired a Part 4 tenancy your landlord can terminate your tenancy only in certain circumstances. Read more about if your landlord wants you to leave here. If you want to leave during your Part 4 tenancy and you do not have a fixed-term agreement, you do not have to give a reason but you must give the correct period of notice in writing as required under the Act. (See 'Rules' below).

    Length of tenancy Notice by tenant
    Less than 6 months 4 weeks (28 days)
    6 months to 1 year 5 weeks (35 days)
    1 – 2 years 6 weeks (42 days)
    2 or more years 8 weeks (56 days)


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    #8
    MariMel
    Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭MariMel


    Even if you friend didnt sign any more leases after 2010, I do believe his tenancy automatically reverts to a part 4 tenancy.
    The required notice of which is listed below.

    Duration of Tenancy Notice Period

    Less than 6 months 28 days
    6 months to 1 year 35 days
    1 - 2 years 42 days
    2 - 3 years 56 days
    3 - 4 years 56 days
    More than 4 years 56 days

    So since you friend was there between 2-3yrs, the required notice period is 56 days. I would reckon the landlord might expect payment for the difference between what notice your friend gave and the actual legally required time frame. In this case possibly 26 more days.

    Did the landlord not notice he wasnt being paid rent for the last few months and has only just figured out? They dont sound like very competent tbh.
    Was the tenancy registered with the prtb?


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    #9
    wonski
    Registered Users Posts: 13,685 ✭✭✭✭wonski


    The OP's friend gave the notice, but landlord claims he never got it???
    So those minimum notice periods won't help him.


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    #10
    petethebrick
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭petethebrick


    Of course you shouldn't pay the money he is demanding, don't be daft :confused::confused:

    And lodge a case with the PRTB regarding the deposit. That could be a problem however given that your friend has no proof of giving notice, the state of the house upon leaving etc

    He should take more care in the future to do these things properly. I would make sure that the landlord received my notice rather than just sending a letter and leaving it at that.


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    #11
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Did your friend attempt to make any contact with the landlord upon not getting a reply to the letter? What about their deposit; did they not attempt to get that back when they moved out?


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    #12
    RoyalMarine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,824 ✭✭✭RoyalMarine


    Yes, several attempts to contact the landlord were made, but the number they had for the landlord was no longer in service. this was over a period of several weeks where contact was attempted on a regular basis.


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    #13
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,994 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Go to the PRTB with it. They don't look kindly on landlords that make outrageous demands, keep deposits without justification and remain uncontactable for the duration of the tenancy.


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    #14
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    If the tenant does not serve valid notice of termination of the tenancy with the landlord- and being unable to prove it is akin to not having served it, he is effectively still a tenant until such time as he does serve valid notice of vacation of the tenancy (or the landlord does, due to non-payment of rent or for another specified reason under the act).

    By all means lodge a case with the PRTB- however you're on seriously dodgy ground, and if the landlord chose to pursue your friend for non-payment of rent for the 4 months in question, technically (regardless of the morality of the issue or whether its in the spirit of the law), he is in the right. It sounds like one party or the other is going to lodge a complaint here- you may as well be the first- but its by no means a clearcut case for either party........


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    #15
    Gandhi
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Gandhi


    What about the fact that the landlord's number was no longer in service? Does your friend have any official correspondence giving that number as the contact point to use? For example, my lease with my tenants (signed by them and me) specifically lists my mobile number as the point of contact to use.

    If your friend can prove this number is out of service, and there was no official word on a new number, it might add some weight to his story.


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    #16
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,299 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Gandhi wrote: »
    If your friend can prove this number is out of service, and there was no official word on a new number, it might add some weight to his story.
    This.

    Also, who did your friend give the keys to? That info would be insteresting.


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    #17
    StillWaters
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭StillWaters


    the_syco wrote: »
    Gandhi wrote: »
    If your friend can prove this number is out of service, and there was no official word on a new number, it might add some weight to his story.
    This.

    Also, who did your friend give the keys to? That info would be insteresting.
    But even if the number was out of service, they still had a way to contact the landlord. A postal address. Had the letter been registered or recorded delivery this would be clear cut. But I agree it's very dodgy territory now.


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    #18
    matrim
    Registered Users Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭matrim


    RoyalMarine wrote: »
    Yes, several attempts to contact the landlord were made, but the number they had for the landlord was no longer in service. this was over a period of several weeks where contact was attempted on a regular basis.
    If he could get phone records showing attempts at contacting the landlord that way, it should help hiscase


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    #19
    odds_on
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭odds_on


    RoyalMarine wrote: »
    Yes, several attempts to contact the landlord were made, but the number they had for the landlord was no longer in service. this was over a period of several weeks where contact was attempted on a regular basis.
    Where did your friend get the landlord's address to send the letter of termination? Are the addresses fairly local or distant from the rented property and the landlord?

    The landlord is in breach of his obligations by not providing a contact in case of emergencies. There are faults on both sides.


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