Things In Football That Grind Your Gears

OwaynOTT

Mushy wrote: »

Yeah but theres a lot of irony in saying that theres no team close to me to support, so they end up supporting a team in a different country. Illogical doesn't even come close to describing it.

Second point about no awareness is true though, and its something that needs to change from the FAIs/clubs side

Convenience - easy to watch teams from another country on TV, not easy to watch Irish league on TV, as it wasn't on for years and it's barely on now.
It's almost as easy to travel to England nowadays, as it is to travel within Ireland, unless you're close by the team, live within the same town/city.

Quality - unfortunately, the quality is much higher in other countries and lots watch football for entertainment. You wouldn't watch other types of inferior entertainment over superior options.

Loyalty - I'm from Tipp, no team in the national league, we have a local club, which I use to play for but its amateur. Why would I travel to Limerick to watch Limerick. How can I develop and an attachment and loyalty to a county, which during the summer for hurling, would be a massive rival?
Much easier to develop an attachment to a club from another country.

Love of the game itself - just go play a 5-a-side


Having said all that, if I relocated to a county/city that had a decent team, I'd probably go once in a while because it's easy and local but I'd still look to my 'club' in England for my entertainment hit and play a game to enjoy the sport.


I really don't see how league of ireland fans can't see this? It's a snobbery thing for ye, 'we're better fans, as we follow our local club', a badge of pride, 'we watch it no matter what, even when we could get better quality entertainment elsewhere.'
Fair ****s to ye for having a local club close by and having the convenience of being able to enjoy it and develop a loyalty to the club, I am enviousness of you but at the same enjoy my place in football fandom.

Soccer is my sport and enjoy playing and watching and will always support the national side and I have seen them play a few times in dublin, despite the cost involved.
I'm bemused by anyone, that claims to be a 'better' supporter , just because they follow a local team.

Mushy, I 'm not even really responding to you specifically, just in general to all the LOI fans that have posted on here over the years.
I probably won't respond either, as I won't have time to unfortunately. Oh and that's another thing, time! Maybe some just don't have the spare time on their hands to spend up to four hours (if they live an hour away from a club) on a regular basis to follow an Irish club.

Football snobbery grinds my gears.

Wrongway1985

Mushy wrote: »

Yeah but theres a lot of irony in saying that theres no team close to me to support, so they end up supporting a team in a different country. Illogical doesn't even come close to describing it.

Second point about no awareness is true though, and its something that needs to change from the FAIs/clubs side

It's certainly ironic but kinda ties in with the second point, majority of people as they get older only take those things into consideration, years of habitual following since a young sprout they are unlikely to drop, certainly the case with me for sure

I don't think we'll see any drastic change in the LOI anytime soon sadly you only have to look that the foundation of the league, clubs are years of bumming pitches.

Wrongway1985

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Loyalty - I'm from Tipp, no team in the national league, we have a local club, which I use to play for but its amateur. Why would I travel to Limerick to watch Limerick. How can I develop and an attachment and loyalty to a county, which during the summer for hurling, would be a massive rival?
Much easier to develop an attachment to a club from another country.

That's a good point actually. Not an avid hurling fan myself but quite enjoy it especially in the summer I'm also from Tipp but Waterford would be closer, due to hurling if I all of a sudden decided to set off to Waterford United games the father would actually disown me!! :pac:

Mushy

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Convenience - easy to watch teams from another country on TV, not easy to watch Irish league on TV, as it wasn't on for years and it's barely on now.
It's almost as easy to travel to England nowadays, as it is to travel within Ireland, unless you're close by the team, live within the same town/city.

Quality - unfortunately, the quality is much higher in other countries and lots watch football for entertainment. You wouldn't watch other types of inferior entertainment over superior options.

Loyalty - I'm from Tipp, no team in the national league, we have a local club, which I use to play for but its amateur. Why would I travel to Limerick to watch Limerick. How can I develop and an attachment and loyalty to a county, which during the summer for hurling, would be a massive rival?
Much easier to develop an attachment to a club from another country.

Love of the game itself - just go play a 5-a-side


Having said all that, if I relocated to a county/city that had a decent team, I'd probably go once in a while because it's easy and local but I'd still look to my 'club' in England for my entertainment hit and play a game to enjoy the sport.


I really don't see how league of ireland fans can't see this? It's a snobbery thing for ye, 'we're better fans, as we follow our local club', a badge of pride, 'we watch it no matter what, even when we could get better quality entertainment elsewhere.'
Fair ****s to ye for having a local club close by and having the convenience of being able to enjoy it and develop a loyalty to the club, I am enviousness of you but at the same enjoy my place in football fandom.

Soccer is my sport and enjoy playing and watching and will always support the national side and I have seen them play a few times in dublin, despite the cost involved.
I'm bemused by anyone, that claims to be a 'better' supporter , just because they follow a local team.

Mushy, I 'm not even really responding to you specifically, just in general to all the LOI fans that have posted on here over the years.
I probably won't respond either, as I won't have time to unfortunately. Oh and that's another thing, time! Maybe some just don't have the spare time on their hands to spend up to four hours (if they live an hour away from a club) on a regular basis to follow an Irish club.

Football snobbery grinds my gears.

Convenience...for tv, yeah, not denying that. Dont think the travel bit will wash (to me anyway). If you were to leave your house (and it probably goes for anywhere in the country, it'll never be easier or quicker to go to england for a game. Can do both though.

Quality is indisputable. But it cant improve here if people are staying away. No, wouldn't watch inferior entertainment...would watch both though.

Loyalty....makes some sense, but then you aren't going to support the country of the club team either (unless you actually will, be a minority though I'd say).

I understand the snobbery thing, theres some where its tedious and ridiculous. I live bout 3-3.5 hours from my team here (luckily it's a 10 minute walk to another team in same division so will see 2 games this season). But why not support both? If people are saying to support LOI exclusively, yeah it won't happen and can't be expected, those people should be ignored (and possibly derided). I wont go claiming I'm a better fan, but theres ways to support the local teams to help improve the league at the same time.

Mushy

Wrongway1985 wrote: »

It's certainly ironic but kinda ties in with the second point, majority of people as they get older only take those things into consideration, years of habitual following since a young sprout they are unlikely to drop, certainly the case with me for sure

I don't think we'll see any drastic change in the LOI anytime soon sadly you only have to look that the foundation of the league, clubs are years of bumming pitches.

Ah I wouldn't expect somebody to stop supporting whoever's they do.

Many issues with the LOI, I'd say I could contribute on nearly each one and itd fit into this thread

Corholio

OwaynOTT wrote: »

I really don't see how league of ireland fans can't see this? It's a snobbery thing for ye, 'we're better fans, as we follow our local club', a badge of pride, 'we watch it no matter what, even when we could get better quality entertainment elsewhere.'
Fair ****s to ye for having a local club close by and having the convenience of being able to enjoy it and develop a loyalty to the club, I am enviousness of you but at the same enjoy my place in football fandom.

The snobbery definitely works both ways though. Of course there are some LOI fans who I personally wouldn't agree with the lengths they take in discussion, as there are some who take it too far in bashing the LOI too, but there are also some (note the word 'some') fans who think because they watch EPL and Champions League on TV that they know more about the 'quality' of football and can somehow 'analyse' better. I'd personally love if lots of others gave LOI a go and developed a connection with it, but there are plenty who just wouldn't out of a weird hatred. There are plenty too who don't support it but don't go out of their way to be high horse about it either.

OwaynOTT

Corholio wrote: »

The snobbery definitely works both ways though. Of course there are some LOI fans who I personally wouldn't agree with the lengths they take in discussion, as there are some who take it too far in bashing the LOI too, but there are also some (note the word 'some') fans who think because they watch EPL and Champions League on TV that they know more about the 'quality' of football and can somehow 'analyse' better. I'd personally love if lots of others gave LOI a go and developed a connection with it, but there are plenty who just wouldn't out of a weird hatred. There are plenty too who don't support it but don't go out of their way to be high horse about it either.

There tits on both sides, about that you’re right. I’ve never came across those who think because they watch the English stuff think they’re better at analysis but I don’t deny they might exist.
Surely those you go to live games regularly might have a bit more knowledge but then those you read up more on the game would too.
I’m not sure how often Rebel goes to games as he’s in LA, I think, but his analysis is always spot on.

osarusan

When, after a bad international result, posters start blaming the LOI and coming up with deluded plans* for the league can be re-designed to produce better players.

*Developing an Atlantic League, putting an Irish-based team in EPL or SPL, and similar notions.

DeanAustin

osarusan wrote: »

When, after a bad international result, posters start blaming the LOI and coming up with deluded plans* for the league can be re-designed to produce better players.

*Developing an Atlantic League, putting an Irish-based team in EPL or SPL, and similar notions.

That's a fair point. A lot of the ideas I see around LOI are just moving the deckchairs around the Titanic. Fact is, without more resources (i.e. money), the LOI will always struggle regardless of what structure is in place.

siblers

Come across this quite a few times for womens matches, commentator or reporter in the build up to the match will say the match is sold out or the stadium is at capacity etc but when watching the match, it's quite clear its not remotely close to being sold out. I know its an attempt to build hype but it just comes across as a very amateurish way to build hype.

Ireland played The Ukraine last month and all day on the radio, they kept saying it was sold out but there were loads of empty seats. Surely this just ends up backfiring as it turns away people who won't bother turning up if they think it's sold out

Omackeral

They give away a boat load of freebies and plenty don't show up as it's no loss to them.

Salvation Tambourine

On the League of Ireland debate. I feel one of the main factors as to why people aren't going has been missed. Mates that also go. You really need to know people that go or agree to start going with someone. It's very hard to motivate yourself to go to matches when you're likely to be on your own. No accountability if you decide not to freeze yourself on a Friday night. No one encouraging you to go.

I've tried a couple of times to get into Shels and don't really know anyone that goes, I know one person but he has his own group that he watches the match with and I don't really fit in with the group. They stand behind the goal and just abuse people all game, I'd rather sit down at the side of the pitch and watch the match.

If I had a group of four or five that went it would be great and I'd be much more likely to go.

ozzy jr

Nokotan wrote: »

On the League of Ireland debate. I feel one of the main factors as to why people aren't going has been missed. Mates that also go. You really need to know people that go or agree to start going with someone. It's very hard to motivate yourself to go to matches when you're likely to be on your own. No accountability if you decide not to freeze yourself on a Friday night. No one encouraging you to go.

I've tried a couple of times to get into Shels and don't really know anyone that goes, I know one person but he has his own group that he watches the match with and I don't really fit in with the group. They stand behind the goal and just abuse people all game, I'd rather sit down at the side of the pitch and watch the match.

If I had a group of four or five that went it would be great and I'd be much more likely to go.

That's an awful excuse, I can't believe you took the time to type that out and post it.

Salvation Tambourine

ozzy jr wrote: »

That's an awful excuse, I can't believe you took the time to type that out and post it.

I've been to plenty of games on my own and it's no where near as fun as when you with friends. No one to talk to about what's happening on the pitch and then nothing afterwards. Watching mid table First Division football on your own isn't very appealing.

Do you not think having people to go and share the experience with makes a difference at all?

bucketybuck

ozzy jr wrote: »

That's an awful excuse, I can't believe you took the time to type that out and post it.

He said it was a factor. It might be worth considering that nobody actually needs an "excuse".

ozzy jr

Nokotan wrote: »

Do you not think having people to go and share the experience with makes a difference at all?

Not enough to stop me going to a match.

Nokotan

Nokotan wrote: »

On the League of Ireland debate. I feel one of the main factors as to why people aren't going has been missed. Mates that also go.

I used to go to Cork City games in the early 90s, then moved back to Kerry. My then girlfriend was working in Cork and in the early 2000s went to a few games at Turners Cross, she came, went to pubs around there after, nods soon became chats etc But the big change was going to an away game. I made friends that weekend and in the first few City games that have stayed close friends to this day, we've been to each others weddings, family funerals, have holidayed together etc.

I fully get the idea that it's easier/better with friends. But it's very easy to make friends with fellows going. And once you do, you never know, some might be friends for life.

Anyway, enough cutesy crap from me. And on this of all threads.

Omackeral

My Summer holiday this year will be spent following Bohs in Europe. Probably some backwater in Estonia and then out but sure look. My point is that the lads I'm going with are some of my best mates now, I knew none of them before I start going to games. You just end up chatting to someone at half time or following a great shot on target and then you see them again the next time. Maybe one of you says ''pint?'' and that's how it happens. I've mostly found people at LOI are glad to welcome new people in.

Say Your Number

Klopp's contrived wackiness.

noodler

ozzy jr wrote: »

That's an awful excuse, I can't believe you took the time to type that out and post it.

Thought it was quite honest and human tbh

eh i dunno

Players pulling out of international games due to injury and then miraculously are fine for club games a few days later. How many Liverpool players have withdrawn this week already. Robertson Henderson VVD Salah gomez. Wonder how many will be fit for Saturday. Its not just Liverpool either. Giggs did it for years

DeanAustin

Say Your Number wrote: »

Klopp's contrived wackiness.

Each to their own. I detest Liverpool but I can't dislike Klopp no matter how much I try. I think he's fantastic.

Guy:Incognito

Say Your Number wrote: »

Klopp's contrived wackiness.

Yeah. The sooner all managers look and sound the same the better.

Guy:Incognito

eh i dunno wrote: »

Players pulling out of international games due to injury and then miraculously are fine for club games a few days later. How many Liverpool players have withdrawn this week already. Robertson Henderson VVD Salah gomez. Wonder how many will be fit for Saturday. Its not just Liverpool either. Giggs did it for years

The attempts to force players to play internationals is ridiculous.

Threats of fines and bans.

If a player doesn't want to play an international game then that's fine, that should be the end of it. If the manager then chooses to not pick them because of it, then that's fine too. The international team isn't their employer. Players shouldn't have to retire to not have play internationals when they dont want to.

hots

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The attempts to force players to play internationals is ridiculous.

Threats of fines and bans.

If a player doesn't want to play an international game then that's fine, that should be the end of it. If the manager then chooses to not pick them because of it, then that's fine too. The international team isn't their employer. Players shouldn't have to retire to not have play internationals when they dont want to.

Agreed, it would stop some of the "injury" business too.

Fitz*

I think nobody is actually allowed to retire from International football, it's more of a gentleman's agreement that the FA of the particular nation will not select a player for the squad.

As far as I know, if a player is selected, he must report for duty. Unless there's an injury.

osarusan

We had this before didn't we, when Domenech continued to select Makelele, who had to report for duty due to the threat of automatic suspension at club level.

GLaDOS

Didn't Matip have some issue with Cameroon which meant he couldn't play for Liverpool even though he wasn't playing at the AFCON?

Infernum

The fact supporters of Club A think taunting supporters of Club B by bringing up the fact that their ailing side has won more major trophies than the other side proves anything.

There's a difference between being a team that has won major honours over a course of one hundred and something years, and being a team that can win major honours in modern conditions.

Corholio

Infernum wrote: »

The fact supporters of Club A think taunting supporters of Club B by bringing up the fact that their ailing side has won more major trophies than the other side proves anything.

There's a difference between being a team that has won major honours over a course of one hundred and something years, and being a team that can win major honours in modern conditions.

The Soccer forum Matrix would collapse upon itself and would reduce post counts by many by about 90% :P

the whole year inn

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The attempts to force players to play internationals is ridiculous.

Threats of fines and bans.

If a player doesn't want to play an international game then that's fine, that should be the end of it. If the manager then chooses to not pick them because of it, then that's fine too. The international team isn't their employer. Players shouldn't have to retire to not have play internationals when they dont want to.

If you selected by your country to play you should play. Its an honor and any attempt to fraud that you should be not be allowed to play for your country again .

hots

the whole year inn wrote: »

If you selected by your country to play you should play. Its an honor and any attempt to fraud that you should be not be allowed to play for your country again .

I don't think so, internationals aren't as important as they used to be, just like the domestic cups.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The attempts to force players to play internationals is ridiculous.

Threats of fines and bans.

If a player doesn't want to play an international game then that's fine, that should be the end of it. If the manager then chooses to not pick them because of it, then that's fine too. The international team isn't their employer. Players shouldn't have to retire to not have play internationals when they dont want to.

You could then have a situation where clubs could just pay players to skip matches, and it would devalue competitions like the World Cup which is still the premier football tournament.

hots wrote: »

I don't think so, internationals aren't as important as they used to be, just like the domestic cups.

Surely that depends...I regard tonight's game as a lot more important than, say, Sheffield United v Burnley.

ozzy jr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You could then have a situation where clubs could just pay players to skip matches, and it would devalue competitions like the World Cup which is still the premier football tournament.



Surely that depends...I regard tonight's game as a lot more important than, say, Sheffield United v Burnley.

But would you regard Sheffield United v Burnley in a play off final more important than Denmark v Ireland in the first game on a qualifying group?

OwaynOTT

Infernum wrote: »

The fact supporters of Club A think taunting supporters of Club B by bringing up the fact that their ailing side has won more major trophies than the other side proves anything.

There's a difference between being a team that has won major honours over a course of one hundred and something years, and being a team that can win major honours in modern conditions.

Looks like soccer was invented in 1992.

ozzy jr

ozzy jr wrote: »

But would you regard Sheffield United v Burnley in a play off final more important than Denmark v Ireland in the first game on a qualifying group?

No. I would regard it as more important than an international friendly, but don't think they can enforce the release requirement for friendlies.

Guy:Incognito

the whole year inn wrote: »

If you selected by your country to play you should play. Its an honor and any attempt to fraud that you should be not be allowed to play for your country again .

Yeah, see heres the thing. Thats YOUR opinion. Other people, most importantly some of the actual players concerned, dont feel that way.

Theres no grounds to justify forcing someone to play a match they dont want to , imo. The country isnt their employer.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

You could then have a situation where clubs could just pay players to skip matches, and it would devalue competitions like the World Cup which is still the premier football tournament.

.

and? Thats up to the player and what they want to do.

The football association of a country doesnt own the players, they should be free to do as they want.

diusmr8a504cvk

Mark Goldbridge

Mushy

The non existent punishment for time wasting

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Yeah, see heres the thing. Thats YOUR opinion. Other people, most importantly some of the actual players concerned, dont feel that way.

Theres no grounds to justify forcing someone to play a match they dont want to , imo. The country isnt their employer.

But when did employers trump selection for your country?

There are loads of employers out there with employees In GAA, in athletics etc who happily say if you're selected for your county or country they'll give you some break at work. When did we all become so concerned about productivity at work that we say this should be curtailed as the employer comes first, most of all in football, the greatest international sport of all?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

and? Thats up to the player and what they want to do.

The football association of a country doesnt own the players, they should be free to do as they want.

Bit your employer doesn't "own" you either. In any event, clubs sign up to UEFA and FIFA and accept the rules. If they want to play in some sport where they own the players like cattle and think they should only play when the club wants, they can always pull out and play ball against a wall.

Salvation Tambourine

Mushy wrote: »

The non existent punishment for time wasting

Here's a booking for time wasting...but I'll blow up on 94 regardless.

Guy:Incognito

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But when did employers trump selection for your country?

There are loads of employers out there with employees In GAA, in athletics etc who happily say if you're selected for your county or country they'll give you some break at work. When did we all become so concerned about productivity at work that we say this should be curtailed as the employer comes first, most of all in football, the greatest international sport of all?

No one said the employer comes first. The player chooses is my point. They should in no way be forced to play international football of they don't want too.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bit your employer doesn't "own" you either. In any event, clubs sign up to UEFA and FIFA and accept the rules. If they want to play in some sport where they own the players like cattle and think they should only play when the club wants, they can always pull out and play ball against a wall.

I was going to clarify that because I knew someone would take it up that way. I meant in the sense they are their own people and not owned by anyone, least of all the country who isn't even their employer. The decision on whether to play international games should rest with the player (assuming the international manager wants to pick them)

hots

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely that depends...I regard tonight's game as a lot more important than, say, Sheffield United v Burnley.

Oh sure, tonight's game had something on the line, but say the first qualifier, or group games of the euro's if we do get there... not so much until there's something on the line.

ArmaniJeanss

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one said the employer comes first. The player chooses is my point. They should in no way be forced to play international football of they don't want too.




I was going to clarify that because I knew someone would take it up that way. I meant in the sense they are their own people and not owned by anyone, least of all the country who isn't even their employer. The decision on whether to play international games should rest with the player (assuming the international manager wants to pick them)

The mid-tier/lower-tier international player would come under huge pressure to reject international call-ups. Yer Ronaldo's and Kane's are in a position to tell the clubs to eff off, but for Pedro Panama rejecting those 8 long international trips each season could be the difference between getting a £2K a week contract in Division 3 or just being released.

So the rule basically protects 100s of players from having this situation ever arise.

Salvation Tambourine

Azalea White Shin wrote: »

Mark Goldbridge

He's incredibly entertaining. He's just a fictional character really.

the whole year inn

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

No one said the employer comes first. The player chooses is my point. They should in no way be forced to play international football of they don't want too.




I was going to clarify that because I knew someone would take it up that way. I meant in the sense they are their own people and not owned by anyone, least of all the country who isn't even their employer. The decision on whether to play international games should rest with the player (assuming the international manager wants to pick them)

Yea I agree no one is forced to play but you can't have it both ways and turn up when you feel like it. Either show up when requested or don't show up at all.

Shanotheslayer

the whole year inn wrote: »

Yea I agree no one is forced to play but you can't have it both ways and turn up when you feel like it. Either show up when requested or don't show up at all.

Why? If the player shows up the manager doesn't have to pick him

inforfun

And then there are the players who really want to play for a country.

Bunch of Dutch from Suriname decent have jumped on the opportunity to play for Suriname recently and it has proven to be a succes already with qualification the for Gold cup.
In the past they would have had to give up their Dutch citizenship (Suriname law) but not anymore.

Quite a few of them played for the Dutch youth teams but wouldnt be getting a call up now.
Hell, with the world cup becoming a participation trofee when it get 48 countries at the end tournament, they probably fancy their chances to go there as well.

There might be players who couldnt give a **** about their national team but the absolute majority still does.

the whole year inn

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Why? If the player shows up the manager doesn't have to pick him

Yes, the manager doesn't have to pick the player but if requested by the country then make them self's present .