Gay Games in Limerick

floggg

cartell_best wrote: »

I'm sorry if I came across arse ways... My good God..... Why is there always somebody to pick away at the most genuine of comments? I know its AH but in fairness... We don't have the straight Olympics, or Straight Pride... I'm Gay, yup thats me... like a certain amount of people.... no matter what i say here I'm going to be shot down.... all I'm saying is, if gay people are going to be accepted, then, we need to be like everyone else. No difference etc...

Calm down, I wasn't picking on you or attacking, i just wanted to dicsuss what you were saying and understand your position. Discussions forums are for discussion after all.

I see somebody is questioning the post about keeping women's officials out of men's soccer - that's not picking on the post but engaging on the issue.

I'm gay too BTW.

Personally, i don't think I should have to assimilate to be accepted (though of course if I want to do that then i should be able to do so as well). I think it's a good to celebrate gay events, especially if we can do so in an inclusive way which gives everybody a chance to participate and get involved. Especially as it shows there is more to the gay community then madonna concerts and assless chaps.

Loads of straight people go to Pride these days for example, and I know the organisers go out of their way to make it family friendly.

In the same way that Paddy's Day parades abroad aren't about excluding non-Irish or Irish ex-pats trying to be "separate" from the rest, gay community events are just about welcoming the public to celebrate the LGBT community with them.

cartell_best

"Calm down", discussion over!

floggg

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It just won't happen, football is a complex topic but its stand out feature is that it's male dominated. Like I said personally I want to see the male game remain that way. Women's football is great in its own way and women should concentrate on continuing its development and furthering public awareness to the game.

Well for obvious reasons I think the men's and women's games should be kept separate. The women wouldn't be able to compete with the strength and power of the men for pure biological reasons.

I don't know if I have any issue with women officials though - theoretically their sex shouldn't make a difference in terms of officiating. As long as the are to the same standard as male officials, I see no reason with it.

Same with women manager's - if they can do the job as well as a man, then more power to them.

floggg

cartell_best wrote: »

"Calm down", discussion over!

?

DEFTLEFTHAND

floggg wrote: »

Well for obvious reasons I think the men's and women's games should be kept separate. The women wouldn't be able to compete with the strength and power of the men for pure biological reasons.

I don't know if I have any issue with women officials though - theoretically their sex shouldn't make a difference in terms of officiating. As long as the are to the same standard as male officials, I see no reason with it.

Same with women manager's - if they can do the job as well as a man, then more power to them.

No I never suggested that they actually compete on the field with the men.:pac:

My personal view is that I don't believe they should be involved in any official capacity within the mens game.

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

No I never suggested that they actually compete on the field with the men.:pac:

My personal view is that I don't believe they should be involved in any official capacity within the mens game.

but why? If they can officiate at the same level as the men, whats the reason against it?

Nodin

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Ahem,

Tom Daley is not gay. What are you talking about right there?

Thanks to Mail online; there are pictures of him with his american girlfriend; Kassidy Cook.

Pictured with an attractive young one? Can't be gay then so. No way.

DEFTLEFTHAND

efb wrote: »

but why? If they can officiate at the same level as the men, whats the reason against it?

Theoretically it could work but in practice it wouldn't. It's an ideology that has to be changed, ie the 'real football' is a mans game.

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Theoretically it could work but in practice it wouldn't. It's an ideology that has to be changed, ie the 'real football' is a mans game.

it seemed to have worked with the Ref's assistant

DEFTLEFTHAND

efb wrote: »

it seemed to have worked with the Ref's assistant

For a starting point I suppose, that girl has already experienced a wrath of sexist abuse officiating in the lower leagues. Think of how that will intensify if she becomes a PM ref.

To lay my cards on the table, I just don't agree with it.

Nodin

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

For a starting point I suppose, that girl has already experienced a wrath of sexist abuse officiating in the lower leagues. Think of how that will intensify if she becomes a PM ref.

To lay my cards on the table, I just don't agree with it.

What? With women refs?

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

For a starting point I suppose, that girl has already experienced a wrath of sexist abuse officiating in the lower leagues. Think of how that will intensify if she becomes a PM ref.

To lay my cards on the table, I just don't agree with it.

so we should let the haters win???

thank all that is good Barnes et al didnt in the 80's.

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

For a starting point I suppose, that girl has already experienced a wrath of sexist abuse officiating in the lower leagues. Think of how that will intensify if she becomes a PM ref.

To lay my cards on the table, I just don't agree with it.

also Ref and Ref's assistant in abuse from moronic supporters shocker!!!!

"The referee's a flicker!" doesn't have the same ring to it I suppose...

DEFTLEFTHAND

efb its a culture that hasn't changed in the game. Equality movements and social change in the last half century taken on board but football hasn't moved far.

Poll any real football fans about the topic and they'd overwhelmingly agree with me.

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

efb its a culture that hasn't changed in the game. Equality movements and social change in the last half century taken on board but football hasn't moved far.

Poll any real football fans about the topic and they'd overwhelmingly agree with me.

whats a 'real' football fan btw?

DEFTLEFTHAND

efb wrote: »

whats a 'real' football fan btw?

What do you want me to say? Who's in the majority?

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

What do you want me to say? Who's in the majority?

I need to have an understanding of who you say I should poll, because anyone I talked too didn't have an issue with it. I must be asking the wrong people.

randylonghorn

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

efb its a culture that hasn't changed in the game.

Is "hasn't changed" the same as "shouldn't change" though?

DEFTLEFTHAND

efb wrote: »

I need to have an understanding of who you say I should poll, because anyone I talked too didn't have an issue with it. I must be asking the wrong people.

Just say we do a sweep of the supporters clubs. Do you honestly think for instance that the Millwall faithful would vote for women referees?

How Soon Is Now

cartell_best wrote: »

floggg wrote: »

Why? It's an all inclusive event, doesn't exclude anybody, and is just about encouraging participation, equality, respect.

It doesn't do abybody any harm or exclude anything and is an event to bring the gay community together for something positive.

I'm sorry if I came across arse ways... My good God..... Why is there always somebody to pick away at the most genuine of comments? I know its AH but in fairness... We don't have the straight Olympics, or Straight Pride... I'm Gay, yup thats me... like a certain amount of people.... no matter what i say here I'm going to be shot down.... all I'm saying is, if gay people are going to be accepted, then, we need to be like everyone else. No difference etc...

Thank you so ****ing much I'm so glad someone's finally said it haha.

efb

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Just say we do a sweep of the supporters clubs. Do you honestly think for instance that the Millwall faithful would vote for women referees?

I dont know, havent asked them yet.

Colmustard

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Yes I agree the racism problem in England has been for the most part successfully eradicated. I just feel the homophobia issue will be a bigger battle, its just the nature of the game at the moment.

In regards to sexism that could be a bridge that's never gapped. For instance I remember Mike Newell's outburst over female officials a few years ago. In fairness though women have their own game, I'd agree at keeping the sexes entirely separate to their respective games when it comes to match officials.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It just won't happen, football is a complex topic but its stand out feature is that it's male dominated. Like I said personally I want to see the male game remain that way. Women's football is great in its own way and women should concentrate on continuing its development and furthering public awareness to the game.

I don't agree, racism was a huge battle, from monkey chants to the most vile comments spluttered out as if it was natural and part of the so called tribalism of the game. It was dealt with so well it is now socially unacceptable at any sport or venue. They could deal with homophobia and sexism the same way.

As for football been a complex topic, the law, management, ruling a country are complex, which women do as well as men, and much more so then officiating at any sport.
I guarantee you there will be women officiating at mens soccer with-in 10 years.

The women's game of soccer is a growing part of the game, FIFA are doing everything they can to promote that and rightly so. I believe the first woman member of the FA in England was recently appointed, (not sure).

cartell_best

Lads, we're all on this planet for a short time, NOT a long time. As much as I wish I invented a time machine, I haven't, not yet...and...if I have, i will post a comment 2 seconds previous to this one...jumping jesus like.....

nervous_twitch

I think some people confuse themselves believing that equality is synonymous with homogeneity - would it be so bad to suggest that the homosexual community is different to its heterosexual counterpart? That men are different from women? Equality to me is the celebration and embracing of these differences, whilst ensuring we never compromise the fundamental rights that our common humanity affords us.

There was a festival in the Netherlands last year that my friend went to; it was a celebration of redheads, and a suggested requirement of entry was being ginger (like the Games, not mandatory.) Was it encouraging segregation, or did it act as a collective fu*k you to to the non-ginger international? No, it was just people of a similar experience gettting together for some fun. And lord knows those redheads are persecuted

No-one is being told they cannot participate; and if they decide to, I think it'd be a nice gesture of solidarity for our LGBT population. Considering that there is still a lack of full legal rights, it's solidarity that's key.

cartell_best

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I think some people confuse themselves believing that equality is synonymous with homogeneity - would it be so bad to suggest that the homosexual community is different to its heterosexual counterpart? That men are different from women? Equality to me is the celebration and embracing of these differences, whilst ensuring we never compromise the fundamental rights that our common humanity affords us.

There was a festival in the Netherlands last year that my friend went to; it was a celebration of redheads, and a suggested requirement of entry was being ginger (like the Games, not mandatory.) Was it encouraging segregation, or did it act as a collective fu*k you to to the non-ginger international? No, it was just people of a similar experience gettting together for some fun. And lord knows those redheads are persecuted

No-one is being told they cannot participate; and if they decide to, I think it'd be a nice gesture of solidarity for our LGBT population. Considering that there is still a lack of full legal rights, it's solidarity that's key.

Are you serious? you place a point on the table that makes a similarity between somebody being a redhead and someone thats gay? erm! as far as i believe, having red hair didn't become decriminalised in 1993. Am i Lost in translation here?

nervous_twitch

cartell_best wrote: »

Are you serious? you place a point on the table that makes a similarity between somebody being a redhead and someone thats gay? erm! as far as i believe, having red hair didn't become decriminalised in 1993. Am i Lost in translation here?

I think you might be. I wasn't suggesting for a second that having red hair is like being a homosexual (!); rather my point was that society is structured largely from difference - whether it's the colour of our skin, the genitalia we possess or the sex we are attracted to, and instead of trying to create an environment where people have to mask these variations and behave identically, we should embrace them.

In other words, why shouldn't people be allowed to have a festival for their hair, or their sexuality, or their gender or whatever? For fear of offending the sensibilities of the few abject who would do anything to convince themselves that they're being 'excluded'? If someone was having an event for heterosexual people, which was LGBT-friendly, I wouldn't have any problems either; the fact is though, we don't have heterosexual events, because we've inhabited a heterosexual environment for almost forever and there was never any need for anyone to assert this heterosexuality. And actually, isn't every event ultimately a heterosexual one anyway?

cartell_best

nervous_twitch wrote: »

I think you might be. I wasn't suggesting for a second that having red hair is like being a homosexual (!); rather my point was that society is structured largely from difference - whether it's the colour of our skin, the genitalia we possess or the sex we are attracted to, and instead of trying to create an environment where people have to mask these variations and behave identically, we should embrace them.

In other words, why shouldn't people be allowed to have a festival for their hair, or their sexuality, or their gender or whatever? For fear of offending the sensibilities of the few abject who would do anything to convince themselves that they're being 'excluded'? If someone was having an event for heterosexual people, which was LGBT-friendly, I wouldn't have any problems either; the fact is though, we don't have heterosexual events, because we've inhabited a heterosexual environment for almost forever and there was never any need for anyone to assert this heterosexuality. And actually, isn't every event ultimately a heterosexual one anyway?

I apologise for entering (to all readers in this thread) into a discussion with someone who believes "isn't every event a hetrosexual one anyway"...

nervous_twitch

Instead of an apology, maybe you could try and teach me something through divulging the issues you have with that statement? Is it not accurate to say we live in a heterosexual world, considering the vast majority of the population is straight? Did you think I meant it negatively?

KDII

nervous_twitch wrote: »

Is it not accurate to say we live in a heterosexual world, considering the vast majority of the population is straight?

A more accurate way of looking at it is that we live in a heteronormative society whereby not engaging in traditional heterosexual behaviour tends to default to "deviating from the norm".

I appreciate your point about the festival in the Netherlands, especially with regard to accepting differences and respecting the people they link to one another.

nervous_twitch

KDII wrote: »

A more accurate way of looking at it is that we live in a heteronormative society whereby not engaging in traditional heterosexual behaviour tends to default to "deviating from the norm".

I think that's what I was trying to say If we live in a heteronormative society, it makes little sense to me that people would begrudge these occasional events that celebrate LGBT life. Particularly when they are indiscriminate about who attends.

Or actually, I suppose it makes complete sense, in that that any 'normative' mindset breeds prejudice, but we're meant to be evolving..

KDII

nervous_twitch wrote: »

it makes little sense to me that people would begrudge these occasional events that celebrate LGBT life. Particularly when they are indiscriminate about who attends.

Or actually, I suppose it makes complete sense, in that that any 'normative' mindset breeds prejudice, but we're meant to be evolving..

My understanding is that there are people who have just never knowingly encountered a gay person and as such believe that a snapshot of the entire gay population is accurate. This is probably reinforced by cultural beliefs that gay people engage in immoral/deviant behaviour etc etc.

This outlook is extremely irritating and the reason I read threads like this as though I am watching a car crash. I understand that as a lesbian woman I am biased but it would mean a lot to me to see my home county supporting an event such as this.


If nothing else I hope a few young people who are after role models/are becoming aware they are "different" find something positive in events such as these.

TAlderson

I hope one day there will be no Gay Games, not because I hate LGBT people, but because I hope that one day no one will give a rat's ass who you have sex with when you get home (as long as it's not a kid or a horse).

-Tyler

Annasopra

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Apparently Limerick is down to the final 7 for a chance to host the Gay Games in 2018.

Firstly I didn't know the Gays had their own games I just presumed they would be happy with the Olympics like everyone else.

When asked on the radio about whether anyone can join in the games it seems they can't. If your not in the LBGT community your not welcolme, well thats the way it came across on the radio.

This annoys me, there on the radio every second day about there right to marraige etc but when it comes to straight people joining in to play some rugby, do a bit of running etc the straight community can apparently go fup themselves as far as the LBGT's are concerned.

Hyprocites of the highest order, what's your take on it?

Emerald Warriors allow everyone to play rugby regardless of sexual orientation

Madam_X

angerfist2009 wrote: »

Ive heard it all now ''The gay games''
Like anyone gives a ****e.

you seem to. Anyone who genuinely doesn't would take no notice and let them to it.

Mickey Dazzler

Hypocrites and I my cousin told me that they like to touch each others willies.

Mickey Dazzler

Mickey Dazzler wrote: »

Hypocrites and I my cousin told me that they like to touch each others willies.

Banned

df1985

not totally related but heres a link to a speech by Donal Og Cusack during the week. An openly gay man in the very straight world of the GAA. Also sheds some light on why pride events or events like gay games are held.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/readme/donal-og-cusack-speech-foyle-pride-festival-571751-Aug2012/?utm_source=facebook_self&utm_medium=thejournal&utm_campaign=from_page

His bravery in coming out when you look at his circumstances is incredible.

floggg

Donal &#211 wrote: »

That’s why I never hear what goes down on the terrace behind me. I’m in the privileged position that the people who would try to police my life have no power. The guy with the megaphone or the big mouth has paid in to see me and to embarrass himself. No matter what happens I can’t be the loser in the exchange.

I particularly liked that bit of the speech.

I think it's allure at how he draws power and strength from those type of incidents rather than allowing himself to become a victim.

I think that kind of attitude can be very empowering, knowing your own strength and turning the would be bulky or aggressor into the loser of the exchange.

I gained a lot of respect for him reading that. Almost makes up for all the shenanigans with the cork hurling team over the years.

df1985

I like that too, the more abuse he gets, the more he stands tall and doesnt give a ****e.

Someone like the guy with the megaphone....attitudes like his are dying more and more all the time, theyll be loud until theyre gone but until just look like idiots and embarrass themselves. Think we are in a major transition period at the minute. The lgbt community are loud looking for equal rights so therefore the opposing people are loud also.

We all know who will win out eventually though. I think the opposing people know full well too but just wont admit it.

Seanchai

Duggy747 wrote: »

The Gay Games welcome athletes of all sexual orientation.

So it should be called The Games, then? :pac:

Or as a compromise, The Gaymes.

Annasopra

Seanchai wrote: »

Or as a compromise, The Gaymes.

No way; that's really original

PC CDROM

PC CDROM wrote: »

The bestiality Games.

Thats where its at.

The equestrian events will be interesting.

I got infracted for this post

Annasopra

PC CDROM wrote: »

I got infracted for this post

Do you want a medal

PC CDROM

mango salsa wrote: »

Do you want a medal

No thanks.

I actually won one today. I got gold in case you were wondering. This is all actually true. I'd tell you what I won it in... but....

I was actually disappointed as I didn't surpass my PB

Annasopra

PC CDROM wrote: »

No thanks.

I actually won one today. I got gold in case you were wondering. This is all actually true. I'd tell you what I won it in... but....

I was actually disappointed as I didn't surpass my PB

Do you think I actually care :-|

gara

I really dislike people who shout from the rooftops when they feel their rights have been compromised but couldn't give a fig about anyone else's. A rule for one is a rule for all.

Surely having a 'Gay Games' undermines everything gay rights activists have ever lobbied for?

fasttalkerchat

PC CDROM wrote: »

I got infracted for this post

I suppose you're indirectly equating sex with a man to an illegal act... or else it was an accident. Did you PM the mod?

KDII

gara wrote: »

I really dislike people who shout from the rooftops when they feel their rights have been compromised but couldn't give a fig about anyone else's. A rule for one is a rule for all

Lucky you, its not a nice feeling to feel your rights are not being respected. Hope it stays well for you.

gara

KDII wrote: »

Lucky you, its not a nice feeling to feel your rights are not being respected. Hope it stays well for you.

If you have a point to make, please do so but without the needless passive aggression

Annasopra

gara wrote: »

I really dislike people who shout from the rooftops when they feel their rights have been compromised but couldn't give a fig about anyone else's. A rule for one is a rule for all.

Surely having a 'Gay Games' undermines everything gay rights activists have ever lobbied for?

No idea what the first paragraph means

Second paragraph not at all. Gay games are an occasion for lgbt people and friends and allies to participate in sport that's all. I have no idea what makes you think this undermines lgbt rights.