New TV3 Programme 'The Estate' in Ballybeg

marysirish

Cabaal wrote: »

Also research has also shown that in cases of a siblings getting pregnant other younger siblings in the family have a higher chance of getting pregnant...especially if the family is poor.

Source: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/232473.php

I would just like to say, I know big families, and only one of the sisters got pregnant young and the rest well they where a lot older, so research is not always right.

Cabaal

marysirish wrote: »

but their are a lot of families that would love the help and don't get it, because the council is to busy giving the money out on things they do need, come on how many shops do you need, how many car parks do you need, if its not one thing its the other, instead of throwing away money on things they don't need give it to schools, community work shop, help the people instead of throwing them in a corner and forgetting about them.

I'm assuming you actually mean the council is spending money on stuff you don't need?

First off, the council don't build shops,
But if shops are built then clearly there is demand, shops provide goods and services and provide employment, so yes you do very much need them.

The likes of other things provided by the council such as footpath improvements, roads and carparks. Yes these are needed at the end of the day.

imho its the wrong mentality to have when you expect the council to fix your problems, people need to take personal responsibility for their life choices and actions.

once you take personal responsibility for your life choices and if you make poor choices this results in a poor quality of life for you, soon you start to improve on the decisions you make..

This change in mindset is needed far far more then the council throwing money at people imho,

mike65

WLR twitter machine can't cope

Cabaal

marysirish wrote: »

I would just like to say, I come from a big family, and only one of my sisters got pregnant at the age of 15 and the rest well they where a lot older, so research is not always right.

If you read it you'll see it does not apply in 100% of cases like you appear to be assuming, but the chances certainly increase and this is shown in the study.

marysirish

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm assuming you actually mean the council is spending money on stuff you don't need?

First off, the council don't build shops,
But if shops are built then clearly there is demand, shops provide goods and services and provide employment, so yes you do very much need them.

The likes of other things provided by the council such as footpath improvements, roads and carparks. Yes these are needed at the end of the day.

imho its the wrong mentality to have when you expect the council to fix your problems, people need to take personal responsibility for their life choices and actions.

once you take personal responsibility for your life choices and if you make poor choices this results in a poor quality of life for you, soon you start to improve on the decisions you make..

This change in mindset is needed far far more then the council throwing money at people imho,

First of all, I don't expect the council to fix my problems, because I don't live, and second how many shops do you need, yes it provides employment, but according to the show know one works in ballybeg (bullsh*t) and the people there are not afraid to walk and do there shopping, they also have cars where they can put their shopping in and if they don't have a car then their neighbour will bring them, because that's what they do they help one another, so don't sit there and tell me to fix my life when you don't know anything about it.Yes the council do throw money away on things they don't need, so you can't tell me any different, I know how it works.Do you come form Ballybeg, do you live there if so then you should know what it is like, instead of listen or watching the bullsh*t they send out on TV.

marysirish

Cabaal wrote: »

If you read it you'll see it does not apply in 100% of cases like you appear to be assuming, but the chances certainly increase and this is shown in the study.

I know what the research says, but it's just like the show, they only show the downside of things.

mcko

The point that I am trying to make is that we reward children for having children, I have two kids and could not afford any more to be honest, these children who have children end up living a miserable life normally in poverty which they generally hand on to their children, I don't have the answers but something needs to be done as all these people do is drain resources that would be better spent elsewhere.

I suppose the idea of shame is long gone, if my daughter carried in like that on tv I would be pretty disappointed, the bad language , the smoking and none of them looked like they were missing many meals.

It is sad really , I had to drop some of my sons classmates to a school tour one day and a lad in his class who is from an estate and his mother is unmarried asked what a book on the back seat was, my son told him it was a book and he replied I never saw on that big before, I felt so sorry for him he is a nice kid but doomed god love him.

Again I don't have all the answers and I think welfare is great to help those who can't help themselves, if I lose my job tomorrow then it is there for me.
It is the entitlement culture that needs to be sorted, the girl was on a mobile to the ESB about her arrears, if I could not pay to heat and light my home them the mobile would do , the cable tv would go ect.

I despair for the future, it's all a laugh now but in 10 years time they will think back on a wasted life.

marysirish

@ mcko, why is the poor boy doomed, he might think, I never had those things and grow up to be someone important, but do you know what the said thing of it all is, most of the kids that go to Ballybeg don't even live there they come from the so called posh estates! Yes some of the kids there have done stupid things and could of done it better, and if it was me my mobile would also be gone, and also the TV, but we are older and we know better, and if I talked like that on TV, how should I say it my mother R.I.P. would of breaking my mouth. So I do understand some people and there reacting but it's not all the people in Ballybeg that are like that.

mcko

I never said all people are like that, but the small minority end up getting lots of support that could be better spent.

marysirish

Cabaal wrote: »

If you read it you'll see it does not apply in 100% of cases like you appear to be assuming, but the chances certainly increase and this is shown in the study.

mcko wrote: »

I never said all people are like that, but the small minority end up getting lots of support that could be better spent.

So if you lose your job in the morning and you have to go on support you won't take it because it could be better spent, a few of my sisters worked their hole live and because they lost their jobs and now have to live on support they shouldn't take it and also my father, he worked nearly 18 hours a day and what did he get for all his hard work €65 a week to live on,

roxyworldgirl

mcko wrote: »

I never said all people are like that, but the small minority end up getting lots of support that could be better spent.

Agreed... It seems to be a slippery slope where one benefit is never enough and the "entitlements" keep on coming... What makes someone you probably has never worked before entitled to something like rent allowance and others who are in a stable relationship working day to day, not?

It seems to be an incentive for recklessness and a hardship for those who planned a family but simply can't afford to have them because they would not be as supported.

I was disgusted to see a clip of children being ordered out of a room so that the mother could smoke on this show and the language which the child is obviously not sheltered from.

The common consensus after the show was that more people like Tommy should have been shown and the organisations which are helping people improve their lives.... But as for one in particular its obvious the community is let down by the camera following someone who is the embodiment of the stigma they are trying to remove....

mcko

I never said that I totally support the welfare system and as you say your family worked their whole lives and now get feck all off the welfare, that is the system I agree with but the people in the show last night have never worked , will never work and that is where the resources should be better spent. I pay over €600 a week in stoppages to the government, if I lost my job tomorrow I would get the same as every one else and that's fine to.

The point I am making is that we need to stop rewarding children for having children.between unmarried mothers ,rent allowance, children's allowance, medical cards, uniform allowance, book allowances ect, it's not fair on married working couples who are struggling and paying more that their fair share.
I am taxed to the hilt and I can claim nothing and must pay for all my services and doctors ect.

marysirish

roxyworldgirl wrote: »

Agreed... It seems to be a slippery slope where one benefit is never enough and the "entitlements" keep on coming... What makes someone you probably has never worked before entitled to something like rent allowance and others who are in a stable relationship working day to day, not?

It seems to be an incentive for recklessness and a hardship for those who planned a family but simply can't afford to have them because they would not be as supported.

I was disgusted to see a clip of children being ordered out of a room so that the mother could smoke on this show and the language which the child is obviously not sheltered from.

The common consensus after the show was that more people like Tommy should have been shown and the organisations which are helping people improve their lives.... But as for one in particular its obvious the community is let down by the camera following someone who is the embodiment of the stigma they are trying to remove....

I agree it is disgusting to see that and they should of showen more people like Tommy, I think 80% of the people living there are hard working people, I moved out of Ballybeg when I was 21 moved out of Ireland, and all the familyies I knew when I lived there where hard working people, those people are entitled to support, but you also have the kids that can't do anything about what happened to them, what about those kids where do they have to get the help from, here's just to hope that they show the other side of the story on the next show.

john do

The girl on the program last night was a disgrace, I don,t care were she comes from, I wouldn,t give her a shoe box to live in. How the hell did a girl of 20 get a house like that for noting, it was clear she wasnt able to cope with having a home of her own. In a fair society a house like that should be handed over to a family who really need it and who will appreciate it. I think anyone under the age of 25 unless married deserve to be handed a house like that, and shouldn,t be put on any housing authority list. I,d like to see that girl cope if she had a morgage on her back instead of a few utility bills, but then again thats never going to happen and its obvious she's going to be a free loader for the rest of her life, and never contribute anything but financial cost to the state. She was so ignorant, smoking like a trooper with one breath, while complaining about money with another breath. The house was a mess, the garden over grown, what does the girl do all day, other than been a drain on society.

Smiley Burnett

that show last night is a damning indictment of
1-our education system
2-our welfare policy
3-our housing policy during celtic tiger years (it has since changed)

roxyworldgirl

john do wrote: »

The girl on the program last night was a disgrace, I don,t care were she comes from, I wouldn,t give her a shoe box to live in. How the hell did a girl of 20 get a house like that for noting, it was clear she wasnt able to cope with having a home of her own. In a fair society a house like that should be handed over to a family who really need it and who will appreciate it. I think anyone under the age of 25 unless married deserve to be handed a house like that, and shouldn,t be put on any housing authority list. I,d like to see that girl cope if she had a morgage on her back instead of a few utility bills, but then again thats never going to happen and its obvious she's going to be a free loader for the rest of her life, and never contribute anything but financial cost to the state. She was so ignorant, smoking like a trooper with one breath, while complaining about money with another breath. The house was a mess, the garden over grown, what does the girl do all day, other than been a drain on society.

It doesn't matter at all she could have been from anywhere in the country but just happened to be associated with this community ...
I'm assuming she got the house as a single mother with family close by, but from the looks of the show she should be careful with so many living there, the council are bound to intervene at some stage.....
A big enough house like that could be used by a whole family who may need it more...

roxyworldgirl

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

that show last night is a damning indictment of
1-our education system
2-our welfare policy
3-our housing policy during celtic tiger years (it has since changed)

the celtic tiger was extinct long before some got houses if the child is 2...

mcko

I rent a house to a girl with one kid, it's a three bed semi, she gets €700 rent allowance per month, she looks after 2 kids cash in hand for €250 a week.
The ironic thing is the working mother is paying her €250 a week to work to pay her mortgage and gets no help from the state.
I pay over 50 % of the rental income in tax, the system is insane.

Brick Session

I think this show was typical TV3 gutter press and not a bit representative of Ballybeg on the whole. Hopefully the next 2 shows will be more balanced.

I don't live there, I am not from there but I know a hell of a lot of very decent people who are from there and they are extremely disappointed of the portrayal of their home place.

mcko

I think most people agree that the majority of people in these estates are ok, it's the minority that people have a problem with when all they do is suck the system dry and will never put anything back.
Look at the feller with the animals in the garden, I bet he never worked a day in his life.

marysirish

john do wrote: »

The girl on the program last night was a disgrace, I don,t care were she comes from, I wouldn,t give her a shoe box to live in. How the hell did a girl of 20 get a house like that for noting, it was clear she wasnt able to cope with having a home of her own. In a fair society a house like that should be handed over to a family who really need it and who will appreciate it. I think anyone under the age of 25 unless married deserve to be handed a house like that, and shouldn,t be put on any housing authority list. I,d like to see that girl cope if she had a morgage on her back instead of a few utility bills, but then again thats never going to happen and its obvious she's going to be a free loader for the rest of her life, and never contribute anything but financial cost to the state. She was so ignorant, smoking like a trooper with one breath, while complaining about money with another breath. The house was a mess, the garden over grown, what does the girl do all day, other than been a drain on society.

I agree with you about the girl, but what about the other people living there, they are really not all the same, but even where I'm living now there are mothers living in houses with only one child of even one person living alone in a house, the girl can't do any thing about that, it is the council that has to change.

marysirish

mcko wrote: »

I never said that I totally support the welfare system and as you say your family worked their whole lives and now get feck all off the welfare, that is the system I agree with but the people in the show last night have never worked , will never work and that is where the resources should be better spent. I pay over €600 a week in stoppages to the government, if I lost my job tomorrow I would get the same as every one else and that's fine to.

The point I am making is that we need to stop rewarding children for having children.between unmarried mothers ,rent allowance, children's allowance, medical cards, uniform allowance, book allowances ect, it's not fair on married working couples who are struggling and paying more that their fair share.
I am taxed to the hilt and I can claim nothing and must pay for all my services and doctors ect.

I agree that they should stop paying welfare to children that can use the pill so they don't have to have children, but if they stop the welfare for those children, what do their kids eat from, of course their family could help or they get of their ass and get a job.But not to unmarried mothers, if they have been married and then get divorced, them they can't help it, but then the father also have to pay for the child or the mother it depends on where the child is living.

marysirish

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

that show last night is a damning indictment of
1-our education system
2-our welfare policy
3-our housing policy during celtic tiger years (it has since changed)

It hasn't changed, because if it did that girl won't have the house or welfare but she does and she makes everyone that come from Ballybeg look a disgrace.

marysirish

roxyworldgirl wrote: »

It doesn't matter at all she could have been from anywhere in the country but just happened to be associated with this community ...
I'm assuming she got the house as a single mother with family close by, but from the looks of the show she should be careful with so many living there, the council are bound to intervene at some stage.....
A big enough house like that could be used by a whole family who may need it more...

The council, we come back to it again, it cost money to intervene and they give their money out on other things, as long as the girl don't cause any trouble and pays her rent the council won't come and check.

sparkling sea

mcko wrote: »

The problem is that we need to stop rewarding children for having children, it's not just in Waterford every estate has them, a classic example of the mother being a mother at 17 and then the daughter has a kid at 17.
The young men get away scott free leaving young girls to raise the kids.
I always thought it is totally unjust that married couples are discriminated against compared to unmarried girls, the daughter of one of the lads at work is married has a kid and they are paying €900 a month on rent and are trying to save to buy a house , why don't they get rent allowance.
One final point, if the girl doesn't name the father on the birth cert no welfare payments and when the father is named stop half his welfare payments and give them to the mother, it might stop young men getting girls pregnant.

I suppose I was left feeling sad after watching the show and how people live their lives without any sense of responsibility as citizens, it's all about entitlement and not responsibility.

I am sure there are lots of hard working people on the estate as well and I feel more sorry for them that they are dragged down by wasters.

Your income determines whether or not you get rent allowance not your martial status.

Hootanany

When is it on again.

sparkling sea

marysirish wrote: »

I agree that they should stop paying welfare to children that can use the pill so they don't have to have children, but if they stop the welfare for those children, what do their kids eat from, of course their family could help or they get of their ass and get a job.But not to unmarried mothers, if they have been married and then get divorced, them they can't help it, but then the father also have to pay for the child or the mother it depends on where the child is living.

The Magdelenes spring to mind - misogyny is alive and kicking here - and the makers of this show didn't miss a trick.

We learn so little from our mistakes - why is the fact that this girl is unmarried an issue. Many people get welfare payments, many people can't get a job - its not true to say that people who get divorced can't get welfare payments- every payment is determined by income

Women in Ireland do actually work and aren't dependant on their little old husbands to bring home the bacon - this is not the 1970s

Here are the CSO unemployment stats - Unemployment: The unemployment rate for men in Ireland was about 5% in recent years but in 2009 it increased dramatically to 15.1% and has increased over the last two years to stand at 17.5% in 2011. The unemployment rate for women, which stood at about 4% over the last few years, also increased sharply in 2009 to 8.1% and has risen over the last two years to 10.4% in 2011. For the 20-24 age group, about a third of men and just over a fifth of women were unemployed in 2011
Countless survey have shown the more women become pregnant accidentially, whether married or single, young or not so young. About 1/3 of all children born in

Teenage pregnancy rates have dramatically dropped in Ireland

The number of Irish women having abortions has also dropped and FYI the majority of Irish women who had and have abortions are still in their mid twenties. So some Irish men and women still have unwanted pregnacies, many married couples have unplanned and/or unwanted pregnancies, why is no one criticising them - they cost the state more? Stupid arguement

Its just easier to pick on teenage or youngers girls - easy targets - they always have been in Ireland - and didn't the makers of "The Estate" just know that lots of people wouldn't be able to resist picking on an easy target -Well done.

sparkling sea

mcko wrote: »

I rent a house to a girl with one kid, it's a three bed semi, she gets €700 rent allowance per month, she looks after 2 kids cash in hand for €250 a week.
The ironic thing is the working mother is paying her €250 a week to work to pay her mortgage and gets no help from the state.
I pay over 50 % of the rental income in tax, the system is insane.

Well I dont know where you live mcko but the maximum you should be getting for a single parent with 1 child in Waterford is €500.

Why do you pay over 50% of your rental income in tax, that sounds very strange?

You should call into Citizens Information, there seems to be things you could do with an update on!

One last thing how do you know the working mother is not getting any help from the state - she might be getting FIS or MIS or she might qualify for a medical card given are cost of child care?

spankmemunkey

sparkling sea wrote: »

The Magdelenes spring to mind - misogyny is alive and kicking here - and the makers of this show didn't miss a trick.

We learn so little from our mistakes - why is the fact that this girl is unmarried an issue. Many people get welfare payments, many people can't get a job - its not true to say that people who get divorced can't get welfare payments- every payment is determined by income

Women in Ireland do actually work and aren't dependant on their little old husbands to bring home the bacon - this is not the 1970s

Here are the CSO unemployment stats - Unemployment: The unemployment rate for men in Ireland was about 5% in recent years but in 2009 it increased dramatically to 15.1% and has increased over the last two years to stand at 17.5% in 2011. The unemployment rate for women, which stood at about 4% over the last few years, also increased sharply in 2009 to 8.1% and has risen over the last two years to 10.4% in 2011. For the 20-24 age group, about a third of men and just over a fifth of women were unemployed in 2011
Countless survey have shown the more women become pregnant accidentially, whether married or single, young or not so young. About 1/3 of all children born in

Teenage pregnancy rates have dramatically dropped in Ireland

The number of Irish women having abortions has also dropped and FYI the majority of Irish women who had and have abortions are still in their mid twenties. So some Irish men and women still have unwanted pregnacies, many married couples have unplanned and/or unwanted pregnancies, why is no one criticising them - they cost the state more? Stupid arguement

Its just easier to pick on teenage or youngers girls - easy targets - they always have been in Ireland - and didn't the makers of "The Estate" just know that lots of people wouldn't be able to resist picking on an easy target -Well done.

I think youll find that this woman probably didnt make an effort in school probably didnt go to college, not cos she couldnt afford it, cos she didnt want to or wasnt able to because when she was in secondary school she was probably more interested in sitting down the back having a laugh not applying herself and not really caring about school, eager to get out of school to get her own life and then goes and gets knocked up and rely's on the social system around her like so many others, surely they wont leave me and my baby starve, oh well ill look on the bright side i dont have to work and i get a free house, These ARE lifestyle choices instead of applying yourself in school in secondary school and wanting to succeed instead of wanting to get out of there as quick as possible, youll probably find most of these girls thought they could leave school and theyll be grand afterwards not realising how hard the world actually is, Alot of blame has to be placed on their parents who havent prepaired them for life properly!

sparkling sea

spankmemunkey wrote: »

I think youll find that this woman probably didnt make an effort in school probably didnt go to college, not cos she couldnt afford it, cos she didnt want to or wasnt able to because when she was in secondary school she was probably more interested in sitting down the back having a laugh not applying herself and not really caring about school, eager to get out of school to get her own life and then goes and gets knocked up and rely's on the social system around her like so many others, surely they wont leave me and my baby starve, oh well ill look on the bright side i dont have to work and i get a free house, These ARE lifestyle choices instead of applying yourself in school in secondary school and wanting to succeed instead of wanting to get out of there as quick as possible, youll probably find most of these girls thought they could leave school and theyll be grand afterwards not realising how hard the world actually is, Alot of blame has to be placed on their parents who havent prepaired them for life properly!

Do you not remember what it was like in school, lots of people messed around; some people are just more fortunate and get 2nd and 3rd and 4th chances. In fairness, you seem to have been day dreaming in English grammar and punctuation usage lessons - and I too dreamed a bit - not as much as you though lol

Unmarried mothers are the easy target though and historically always has been in Ireland and there have been many consequences for us as a society because of this targeting. Yet people choose to target them over and over again - some good decision making going on here.

People without children get houses or apartments and social welfare, and raising a child alone is not an easy job; maybe as a 21 year old this girl is making some mistakes but then don't we all

Your post could apply to lots of people when they were teenagers whether they are married, unmarried, with or without children now.