New TV3 Programme 'The Estate' in Ballybeg

Andersonisgod

The editing, music, cutaway shots ect. were so obvious that this show could only be deemed as lowest common denominator. Nothing on show to make you think, nothing to provoke an intelligent debate about an issue, this was purely stick a camera in front of some poor (and rather poorly educated) people and laugh, ala Big Fat Gypsy Wedding just with less pomp and pageantry. As has been said, credit to the guy trying to get through college, the only redeeming feature in an otherwise shoddy, hatchet job featuring lots of "point and laugh/cry/smile/grimace" moments but little depth and no subtlety.

mcko

God here I go agai, tv3didn't invent these people.

Andersonisgod

mcko wrote: »

God here I go agai, tv3didn't invent these people.

Nobody is saying that they did. However the way the show was presented made it clear how you were supposed to react to each person. The editing, the music, the cutaway shots, all of it working together cohesively to dictate how the audience should feel about each person. Yes some of the people on the show deserve derision for their behaviour (and possibly for agreeing to go on such a show in the first place) however the way TV3 presented the show was about as subtle as having a small man in the right hand screen corner of the corner holding up cards informing us when we should laugh, cry, smile, cheer and wave our fists in fury.

madmaggie

Totally agree, Andersonisgod, I felt from the first programme that the camera shots were almost manipulating what sort of opinion I should form of the people involved. It's a sly way of passing comment without verbalising it. I'm glad Tommy is in the programme to give some sort of balance, he's an inspiration to other youngsters.

Bears and Vodka

That programme is mad craic!

lollysocks

Jeez all they show is scum.. Tommy was the only one that wasn't a complete and utter scumbag. Those Halligans have quite a reputation and should rightfully so have the guards making comments on them. And that old woman saying she did her best to raise the kids.. and then goes on to say her youngest child was in the care of that other Ann woman for many years... And most of her children turned out to be jailbirds/troublemakers... Umm wtf..??? That's failure at parenting no matter how nice of a woman she may be.. And also the 'mahogany brown' jailbird is still taking drugs and stealing things to this day so he must have been telling a few lies on the show.....

And the girl who went out drinking before the day of her childs party.. She was a joke to be quite frank... Have no pity for any of these people they are all the cause of their own troubles.

Anyways, what even is the point of this show? What message is it trying to get across? What has the single mothers, mother, talking about her diabetes got to do with anything? What has anything on this show got to do with anything???

Complete waste of time and money if you
ask me.

Cabaal

lollysocks wrote: »

Complete waste of time and money if you
ask me.

Perhaps,
But atleast its not tax payers moneys like it would be with RTE

Dicky Pride

Have to laugh at all the various reactions that I'm reading to this show.

First off, Waterford people really are precious, and also a little bit hysterical.

How dare she go to a 21st the night before her 2 year old's birthday party. Her birthday party...not her wedding. Her cousin's 21st. How can people judge her on that?! Madness.

She's a working mother who smokes and swears. My guess is she's not in a minority in this town. But it doesn't stop people from abusing her.

What is the point of this show? It's a waste of money etc! Well I'd be of that opinion of most of the crap on TV3 but a lot of people are watching this, and being entertained. And then there are the people on this thread who think its terrible and a waste of time and money, but are tuning in anyway. TV3 love people like you!

At the end of the day these people agreed to be filmed, for free, probably because they thought it would be a bit of a laugh...but hundreds of other people refused. And many of these people are the very ones that are leading the criticism charge.

The abuse of the single mother has particularly annoyed me because I have seen some people wishing Dennis all the best and then calling this one the scum of the earth. It really is mind boggling.

Piece in the news and star this morning with a lot of quotes from this thread btw

7upfree

iamaiamai wrote: »

I think it is a form of discrimination to represent the situation as if it applied solely to unmarried mothers

Actually it is not. It is pointing out a blatant discrimination. One woman whose husband has worked for years, paid taxes, and dies suddenly leaving her bereft, receives less entitlements than a teenage unmarried mother. Marriage is most certainly the issue here.

MitchKoobski

I didn't catch last week's episode, but I watched last night and I honestly can't understand the uproar. Found the programme interesting and a good watch.

Seems to be a lot of people ready to give out about anything.

iseegirls

lollysocks wrote: »

Anyways, what even is the point of this show? What message is it trying to get across? What has the single mothers, mother, talking about her diabetes got to do with anything? What has anything on this show got to do with anything???

Complete waste of time and money if you
ask me.

I bet you'll be watching the show again next week though, won't you.

iseegirls

MitchKoobski wrote: »

I didn't catch last week's episode, but I watched last night and I honestly can't understand the uproar. Found the programme interesting and a good watch.

Seems to be a lot of people ready to give out about anything.

I completely agree. Really interesting documentary.

Also a huge thumbs up to St Vincent de Paul. I didn't know that this type of great support is out there for people struggling to get through school and college.

twistables

From what I'm reading over on this trend is people are disappointed at TV3, this show is like a insult of sorts to the people of waterford. They made a show picking on the weakest and most vulnerable and show them up for being poor struggling in life and lacking decent education. Then making a documentary for the majorty of the country will laugh and sneer at. My opinion is that is the common issue with most posters on here

On the other hand I think most of the people in the show could learn alot about themselves and where there are going wrong by just watching the show

Deise Vu

iseegirls wrote: »

I completely agree. Really interesting documentary.

Also a huge thumbs up to St Vincent de Paul. I didn't know that this type of great support is out there for people struggling to get through school and college.

Agree with SVdP and the programme in general. One thing highlighted for me was the shocking state of affairs that we have billions to splash out on accomodation for teenage mothers who could still live with their parents but a guy who wants to educate himself has to go to SVdP for the registration fees and course fees and he also loses all state support in the process.

And the grotesquely overpaid heads of the universities, without a hint of irony, tell us that we need to increase fees in order to increase access to our third level institutions. I could never understand that one myself.

Max Powers

Deise Vu wrote: »

Agree with SVdP and the programme in general. One thing highlighted for me was the shocking state of affairs that we have billions to splash out on accomodation for teenage mothers who could still live with their parents but a guy who wants to educate himself has to go to SVdP for the registration fees and course fees and he also loses all state support in the process.

Well said Deisevu.
I think you can sum the programme into being a 'look and laugh at these people' type thing, similar to gypsy wedding etc. Obviously the lad trying to do his course deserves credit and support. They throw in some people crying or acting stupid so we can feel sorry for them then to spread out the range of emotions.
One thing that i noticed was, that a frozen lasagne (looked like lasgane) is not suitable nutrition for a child.

7upfree

Deise Vu wrote: »

And the grotesquely overpaid heads of the universities, without a hint of irony, tell us that we need to increase fees in order to increase access to our third level institutions. I could never understand that one myself.

Agreed. But they are just a symptom of all that is wrong in Ireland. The obscene salaries in RTE, the outrageous fees paid to charity CEOs, politicians salaries,PS wages, consultant's salaries, the list is truly endless.

Ireland is, today, one huge gravy train. If you're on it - you're quids in. If not, then God help you. A sad reflection of the times we live in. And all of the above are the main reasons for our spending deficit. And no-one has the balls or the inclination to do anything about it.

Dicky Pride

Max Powers wrote: »

Well said Deisevu.
I think you can sum the programme into being a 'look and laugh at these people' type thing, similar to gypsy wedding etc. Obviously the lad trying to do his course deserves credit and support. They throw in some people crying or acting stupid so we can feel sorry for them then to spread out the range of emotions.
One thing that i noticed was, that a frozen lasagne (looked like lasgane) is not suitable nutrition for a child.

I think there was a bit of crayon on one of the walls too. Pure scum. how do they get away with it?

Max Powers

Dicky Pride wrote: »

I think there was a bit of crayon on one of the walls too. Pure scum. how do they get away with it?

sarky, i and any parent should be concerned about that, the kids diet, not the crayon.

PauloMN

Max Powers wrote: »

sarky, i and any parent should be concerned about that, the kids diet, not the crayon.

.... and the constant smoking in front of the kid. Almost €10 a pack of fags, yet she struggles to pay bills.

That ****e she put in the microwave also costs a fortune compared with cooking your own healthy foods.

Dicky Pride

Max Powers wrote: »

sarky, i and any parent should be concerned about that, the kids diet, not the crayon.

Yeah, but if we had a camera on you all year round do you think we might something to pick at? Ever leave your child on his own for a minute or so? Ever give him chocolate? Or juice? You know you're not supposed to give juice to a child under 4 years of age.

I'm not trying to be sarky, and that girl was far from perfect. But picking on her for giving her some lasagne, you have got to be kidding me.

Sully

You all must be fantastic parents

Max Powers

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Yeah, but if we had a camera on you all year round do you think we might something to pick at? Ever leave your child on his own for a minute or so? Ever give him chocolate? Or juice? You know you're not supposed to give juice to a child under 4 years of age.

I'm not trying to be sarky, and that girl was far from perfect. But picking on her for giving her some lasagne, you have got to be kidding me.

well you were being sarky whether meant or not. im sure they would find a few small things if they followed me or anyone for a year, thats a fair cop and i suppose we all bear that in mind when watching any reality program. they wouldnt catch me smoking in front of my kid or giving them that muck. On tv, unfortunately you put yourself up for criticism, sounds rough I know but thats the way it is. if a parent was smoking in front of their kid, that should be pointed out too as irresponsible, not wearing a seat belt, same again. the diet thing is much the same as we are gonna have an epidemic of kids with diabetes etc if it continues the way we are going. maybe that was a once off, maybe smoking in front of kids was a once off or maybe some people who have kids arent fully prepared and mature enough to have them.

PS. As for that lasagne, you may as well be eating a pile of salt, sugar and fat on cardboard nutritionally. 100% juice when well diluted is ok, obviously dont forget to brush teeth after kids.

Dicky Pride

Can't argue with anything you've said there. I hate smoking full stop. I'm just not comfortable with so many people tearing strips of someone who, herself, is only a child.

Let he who is without sin etc.

PauloMN

Sully wrote: »

You all must be fantastic parents

I don't think anyone is claiming that, but some of us are not burying our heads in the sand.

It's blatantly obvious, for example, that someone who struggles so badly to pay basic bills like electricity bills, yet who can spend money drinking, smoking, throwing a big party for a child etc. has their spending priorities messed up.

Nothing against the girl, the only thing that really bothers me is seeing her telling the kid to get out of the sitting room so that she can have a smoke (and then say to the child "you'll not smoke like mammy now, will ya?"). But she shouldn't be moaning about being skint when she throws money away.

Max Powers

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Can't argue with anything you've said there. I hate smoking full stop. I'm just not comfortable with so many people tearing strips of someone who, herself, is only a child.

Let he who is without sin etc.

You are right Dicky and im not posting about it anymore, I/we can forget that these are normal people not TV celebs. The girl with the kid does seem to love her kid loads, hates leaving her at creche, we have that in common, anyway, she loves her kid so the kid is lucky to have such a loving parent, thats a massive part of the job so fair play and i wish her all the best.

Sully

PauloMN wrote: »

I don't think anyone is claiming that, but some of us are not burying our heads in the sand.

It's blatantly obvious, for example, that someone who struggles so badly to pay basic bills like electricity bills, yet who can spend money drinking, smoking, throwing a big party for a child etc. has their spending priorities messed up.

Nothing against the girl, the only thing that really bothers me is seeing her telling the kid to get out of the sitting room so that she can have a smoke (and then say to the child "you'll not smoke like mammy now, will ya?"). But she shouldn't be moaning about being skint when she throws money away.

People moaning that she smokes in front of her child - that's very common. Not something I personally agree with, but it is common. There is anger at the talk of banning people smoking in cars with kids present, with people saying its a "nanny state". She also asked on one occasion that the child leave the room while they smoked.

People moaning the child was eating frozen foods - again, not uncommon. A lot of people buy frozen meals because they are cheap and they can't afford anything else.

The girl spending money on cigarettes, drink, etc. is also not uncommon and there was uproar when it was suggested that people who cannot afford these luxuries should stop and pay their bills. Whatever about other luxuries, and we don't know how much she spends exactly, the money spent on her child's birthday I wouldn't be chasing her around the room with a stick for.

So while people sit back and bemoan her, perhaps they wouldn't be as quick if they were in her shoes. We all might look and think "She could have made a saving there" or "She shouldn't be doing that" but most are very common and normal day to day situations.

For the record, I don't know her or anybody in Ballybeg. Nor anybody related to her or friends with her.

PauloMN

Sully wrote: »

People moaning that she smokes in front of her child - that's very common. Not something I personally agree with, but it is common. There is anger at the talk of banning people smoking in cars with kids present, with people saying its a "nanny state". She also asked on one occasion that the child leave the room while they smoked.

People moaning the child was eating frozen foods - again, not uncommon. A lot of people buy frozen meals because they are cheap and they can't afford anything else.

The girl spending money on cigarettes, drink, etc. is also not uncommon and there was uproar when it was suggested that people who cannot afford these luxuries should stop and pay their bills. Whatever about other luxuries, and we don't know how much she spends exactly, the money spent on her child's birthday I wouldn't be chasing her around the room with a stick for.

So while people sit back and bemoan her, perhaps they wouldn't be as quick if they were in her shoes. We all might look and think "She could have made a saving there" or "She shouldn't be doing that" but most are very common and normal day to day situations.

For the record, I don't know her or anybody in Ballybeg. Nor anybody related to her or friends with her.

So because these things are common, they are ok? Look, she chose to go on telly and let people see how she lives. It's a documentary, so people have the right to comment on it whether you like it or not. As I said earlier, I didn't find anything especially funny about the programme, I found it thoroughly depressing except for the young youth worker lad.

I'm not chasing anyone anywhere. Frankly, I don't care what she spends her money on - the only point I'm making is I find it hard listening to people saying they're skint, no money, broke, can't pay my bills etc. when clearly there's plenty of money being spent on luxuries. I've been listening to it for years now - yes, you're right, it is common - but that to me points to something being inherently wrong with how a lot of people budget their money.

Maybe I'm guilty of personalising it too much - I didn't intend on doing that - I'm having a go at the way of life, rather than having a go at her, if you know what I mean.

cartell_best

I think that the programme is trying to show a part of society that exists, that a hell of a lot of people (from what I've seen on this thread from "some" posters, is probably true, WOW), believe that Ramsey Street and Summer Bay are more a reflection on society, as a whole. Some people think that places like the Chatsworth Estate (Shameless), are nothing more than the creation of a screen writer, as surely people believe such places don't exist in reality.

I don't think "The Estate" is there play up to humour or degradation, if the programme showed Ballymun, how would you interpret it? because some of you are taking it in what in my opinion, seems to be a direct insult at you and not your hometown, and not for the merit for which it is. Its a simple fact, that in every town and city in Ireland, estates like Ballybeg really do exist. There was another programme on, not to long ago, where Waterford wasn't included, albeit, a different format, and people moaned. And to be honest, it would be not only naïve for people from around the country to not be able to associate their own hometown/city with a place like Ballybeg, but just arrogance at its worst.

The girl that smokes in front of her child, and feeds the 2 year old processed food. From seeing the programme, I believe that girl is but still but a child herself and has some growing up to do (Thank God!! we were all so grown up at 20 that we were all actually so clued into life! with nothing to learn...). I've seen women in the their 30's/40's smoking in cars with kids and they weren't driving a 14 year old focus (car make used as example, so lets not generalise that particular element of the programme). I wonder how many people treat their kids to McDonalds on occasion? What's not to say this was one occasion that this girl decided to do this? Double standards come to mind, and as some of you have pointed out, editorial control also sets the "tone" for the programme.

But sure, nothing ever happens out on the Dunmore road, in Hillview or anywhere else in the city! I'm sure it does, like everywhere, just more diluted than what we've seen in Ballybeg. There are good and bad parts on the majority of housing estates. Even if it is one rogue neighbour having sessions every weekend or general anti-social behaviour.

Isn't it just absolutely brilliant how we're all so perfect!

(I apologise to those of you who have made mistakes in life, and sit at your keyboard and have empathy and a grasp on some level of compassion, regardless of what we've seen or experienced).

mike65

Sully wrote: »

.

People moaning the child was eating frozen foods - again, not uncommon. A lot of people buy frozen meals because they are cheap and they can't afford anything else.

Ooh this gets me angry! Healthy home cooked food costs half nothing with a just a smidgen of self education, you only need go on the cooking and recipes forum here to find loads of quality nosh made from cheap ingredients.

Deise Vu

My one major criticism of the programme would be that very little is put into context. I would imagine there would have been far less vitriol spewed on the young mother if the viewers knew in week one that she was working. She isn't the greatest mother in the world or the brightest spark but it is to her credit that she goes to work when there probably isn't a ton of difference with what she would get in social welfare supports.

On the other hand we have seen her berating her mother not taking care of her diabetes while she herself is overweight, smoking, eating rubbish and giving juice (we hope) in a bottle to her 2 year old. These are all inevitable trainwrecks towards health problems that will fall on the taxpayer to finance and I think people are entitled to be exasperated by selfish behaviour like that.

Also on the subject of context unless there are 2 Andrew Halligans in Clonard Park, the brother who is getting out after 7 years was indeed involved in the stabbing to death of Dick Forristal as mentioned in an earlier post. The "little sis's" comic stint where she wasn't sure how many kids he had and she casually mentioned she used her brothers to sort out any bother she got into on the street takes on a slightly sinister aspect when you are aware of what her family are capable of doing.