'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

shaka

No

Reckon the admission will be along the lines that. " the euro weenies were all cheating so I had to dope to keep up"

Trying to kid myself that I won't watch but I know I will, Oprah doing herself no favours if she is taking part in his pr stunt.

robs1

retalivity wrote: »

He took it to a whole new level though, systematically instilling it into his team and teammates, and ruining careers of others who didn't share his 'vision'.

He was like the mafia don in charge of bootlegging during prohibition in the states: He didn't invent alcohol, or was the only one doing it. But he profited most from it by being a ruthless b*stard and destroying the lives of anyone who didn't go along with him.

He didn't take it to the next level. Remember in 1998 when the whole festina them were caught. a car boot full of drugs was not just for a single rider it was for the team. Yes he did bully but im talking about the doping. you may say the next level but i say it was up to 15 individuals on the same team taking drugs. they were hardly held down kicking and screaming to inject the drugs. the got big contracts and made huge money being on that team when they got caught they were like school children and tried to pin it on the " bully"

petethedrummer

No

robs1 wrote: »

there was a doping culture in cycling even before Armstrong was born. he did not create this culture its been there for about 50 years. I not defending him but it didn't start with Armstrong and now that he has been caught its not going to stop all of a sudden

Armstrong being the biggest cheat in cycling (and maybe all sports) history had to fall. Hopefully it will be a good deterrent to current and future riders. Or maybe all they will learn is not to p!ss off a guilt ridden Menonite.

robs1 wrote: »

He didn't take it to the next level. Remember in 1998 when the whole festina them were caught. a car boot full of drugs was not just for a single rider it was for the team. Yes he did bully but im talking about the doping. you may say the next level but i say it was up to 15 individuals on the same team taking drugs. they were hardly held down kicking and screaming to inject the drugs. the got big contracts and made huge money being on that team when they got caught they were like school children and tried to pin it on the " bully"

He bought exclusive rights to a leading dope doctor. Had the EPO test explained to him by a lab. Paid off the UCI. Squealed on rivals. That is bringing the cheating to a new level.

shaka

No

robs1 wrote: »

He didn't take it to the next level. Remember in 1998 when the whole festina them were caught. a car boot full of drugs was not just for a single rider it was for the team. Yes he did bully but im talking about the doping. you may say the next level but i say it was up to 15 individuals on the same team taking drugs. they were hardly held down kicking and screaming to inject the drugs. the got big contracts and made huge money being on that team when they got caught they were like school children and tried to pin it on the " bully"

Pin it on the bully ? You surely mean expose the organiser

robs1

shaka wrote: »

Pin it on the bully ? You surely mean expose the organiser

If they didn't like it they could have left.they are grown men

furiousox

No

According to Oprah, there was so much Partridge-esque "chatting" there might be two broadcasts instead of one.

buffalo

No

furiousox wrote: »

According to Oprah, there was so much Partridge-esque "chatting" there might be two broadcasts instead of one.

It's like the Hobbit all over again.

robs1

petethedrummer wrote: »

Armstrong being the biggest cheat in cycling (and maybe all sports) history had to fall. Hopefully it will be a good deterrent to current and future riders. Or maybe all they will learn is not to p!ss off a guilt ridden Menorite
totally agree. yes i think for cycling to move on and show they are serious about catching cheats Armstrong had to taken down. Michelle ferrari had alot more clients than Armstrong and his team.

Oryx

No

robs1 wrote: »

If they didn't like it they could have left.they are grown men

Many did. You just don't hear about them because they didnt get the big careers the dopers did.

All of them deserve to be caught, but Armstrong lived by the media sword (big profile, big charity,big money, big influence) so he deserves to die by it too.

seamus

And the Lance Armstrong shameless narcissism machine rolls on.

Rather than be the man who brought ultimate shame on cycling by having to be stripped of his record-breaking titles, it looks like he's going to try and reinvent himself as the man who saved cycling, the "hero" who blows the doping scam wide open and cleans up the sport.

This guy will be wittering about on talk shows and setting up foundations until he's dead because he just can't get enough of himself.

petethedrummer

No

robs1 wrote: »

Michelle ferrari had alot more clients than Armstrong and his team.

We are all very aware of this. All the other (American) Postal riders assisted with the USADA investigation and received bans.

drdeadlift

seamus wrote: »

And the Lance Armstrong shameless narcissism machine rolls on.

Rather than be the man who brought ultimate shame on cycling by having to be stripped of his record-breaking titles, it looks like he's going to try and reinvent himself as the man who saved cycling, the "hero" who blows the doping scam wide open and cleans up the sport.

This guy will be wittering about on talk shows and setting up foundations until he's dead because he just can't get enough of himself.

We might even get a film about him too.

Kav0777

No

petethedrummer wrote: »

We are all very aware of this. All the other (American) Postal riders assisted with the USADA investigation and received bans.

... and more recently Michele Scarponi received a ban for working with him.

2 Wheels Good

No

Just a thought, if anyone here got an infraction before for calling Lance a cheat, can they have it retracted?

Chips Lovell

No

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Just a thought, if anyone here got an infraction before for calling Lance a cheat, can they have it retracted?

robs1

petethedrummer wrote: »

We are all very aware of this. All the other (American) Postal riders assisted with the USADA investigation and received bans.

You said he had exclusive rights to the best doping doctor. i was just making the point it was not exclusive

Beasty

No

I think she said she was "armed" with 127 questions and indicated she had managed to get almost all in. I presume (and indeed hope) the UCI donation was discussed. I'd love to hear what he has to say about that.

Captain Havoc

Beasty wrote: »

I think she said she was "armed" with 127 questions and indicated she had managed to get almost all in. I presume (and indeed hope) the UCI donation was discussed. I'd love to hear what he has to say about that.

Something about giving back to the sport that gave him so much.

funnights74

No

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It's going to be on Discovery. That's assuming that the UK Discovery is the same as the Irish one?

On my upc tv guide, it's on the discovery channel at 6.30 pm on saturday for 90 mins but i believe they have split the interview in 2 so more to follow.

WumBuster

Seems like Oprah really did her homework, she locked herself away for a week before the interview absorbing every bit of materiel she could find on the Armstrong case including David Walsh's books. lance even asked her when she was going to lighten up about an hour into the interview. So i dont think its going to be the easy ride we expected and Lance probably was hoping for.

mcgratheoin

No

Colonialboy wrote: »

Theres plenty blame to go around, Id like to see it spread around a bit. Maybe then we will see some change.

In fairness, the blame has been spread around quite a bit. Verbruggen, Ferrari, Fuentes and Bruyneel spring to mind as several who have been allocated ample blame. Have a look through this forum for the average fan's view on Riis's current position within cycling as an example of how ex-dopers and doping facilitators are seen.

The problem (and reason for lack of change so far) lies with the fact that despite a majority (I'd guess) of cycling fans believing that Riis et al should have no place in the sport, there is no desire within the UCI to protect the integrity of the sport beyond its ability to generate cash.

Paully D

Is David Walsh's ''Seven Deadly Sins'' book worth picking up? Cheers.

Has anyone got a link for that graph showing the "real" winners of the Tour de France over the years when drug-users are excluded?

petethedrummer

No

robs1 wrote: »

You said he had exclusive rights to the best doping doctor. i was just making the point it was not exclusive

Yes his teammates worked with him. But I'm pretty sure none of his rivals did. Maybe did they in '99 or 2000.

ROK ON

No

Sky News have said that there is not necessarily a confession, more a context for what occurred. They have looked thru what Oprah said today, and deduce that she said he said that he was very forthcoming, but stopped short of saying that he confessed.

funnights74

No

Deleted User wrote: »

Has anyone got a link for that graph showing the "real" winners of the Tour de France over the years when drug-users are excluded?

Just saw this, a list of the clean and unclean of recent times, even a few of the "clean" should have question marks next to them. Also on Sky via Reuters reporting that a senior IOC Member has said that cycling could be dumped from the Olympics because of the Armstrong case.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21024288

Stokolan

Just did a search on the online tv guide for sky and they came up with this for when its on

Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery Fri 18 Jan, 2am
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery HD Fri 18 Jan, 2am
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery+1 Fri 18 Jan, 3am
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery Fri 18 Jan, 8pm
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery HD Fri 18 Jan, 8pm
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery+1 Fri 18 Jan, 9pm

Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery Sat 19 Jan, 6:30pm
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery HD Sat 19 Jan, 6:30pm
Oprah Winfrey & Lance Armstrong... Discovery+1 Sat 19 Jan, 7:30pm

ThisRegard

No

Walsh has further expanded on his reaching out tweet from the other day, he's now saying Lance is reaching out to journalists who he had previously seen as adversaries.

velo.2010

Folk seem to be misinterpreting what Oprah said today. Sky News, in particular, seem to be stuck on the words 'did not come clean'. If they hear in full what she said you might get the more likely interpretation that Armstrong spoke more candidly than anyone might have expected.

I reckon he has pulled the trigger on the UCI, not necessarilly naming names but stating that they were either complicite in covering up tests or delberately turned a blind eye to any drug taking by Postal/Discovery etc.

Whatever the case I would be most interested in an open discussion with the likes of Walsh, Kimmage and others face to face with Armstrong. Given the heavy Irish involvement with the whole affair, something like a Frontline/Primetime special chaired by Pat Kenny with as many of the characters involved would be interesting. Of course there is the danger that after a while - as others above point out - you begin to pander to Lance and allow him to direct the narrative of his reform and his potential for profiting from this.

BTW, Wiggo needs a brief history lesson from what I've heard from him this evening. Apparently 'the nineties are a write-off' according to Sir Bradley. No Brad , 'the noughties' were a write-off even more so!

lennymc

No

funnights74 wrote: »

Also on Sky via Reuters reporting that a senior IOC Member has said that cycling could be dumped from the Olympics because of the Armstrong case.

just heard that on sky news now. Waiting for more info when they finish talking about the golfists.