'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

Oryx

No

He wants to return to competitive sport. Thats all this was ever about. He isnt sorry. He doesnt want the world to know his story. He doesnt want those he has wronged to forgive him. He wants to win races. That singular ambition that got him into this mess is still the only thing that drives him. If he can curry public favour he can pressurise the authorities to let him back in. This was his first move. And as per his usual form, it was a devious move.

Moflojo

No

Lifetime Ban for dopers is the only way to solve this issue. Here's my analogy about doping (bear with me):

Take a flat, predictable stage in a big televised tour. The dogs in the street know that it's going to come down to a bunch sprint at the finish. The chances of a break staying away are miniscule - less than 10% at best. Inevitably, however, one or two riders will make a break and stay away for most of the stage before being swallowed up by the pelaton a few kms from the finish line. So why do they make the break when it's almost inevitable they'll be caught? TV coverage for their sponsors = €€€. Simples. It's a win-win scenario: Winning the stage would be great, but extended coverage for the sponsors is just as good.

I compare this scenario with doping in cycling. Doping to succeed in cycling is a bit like making a 'hopeless' breakaway in a televised tour; there's a tiny chance that you'll make it to the grave without being caught. So why dope? €€€. If you're a talented young rider it's pretty-much worth your while doping to get to the top because once you get there you're guaranteed a big pay day and a prolonged career. And if you get caught? Plenty of options: 1. Fight it all the way, serve a short ban, then return in a wealthy team with questionable morals (as with Contador). 2. Show remorse and follow the 'redemption route', write a bestseller about your doping 'ordeal' and sell wristbands promoting "clean riding" (as with Millar). 3. Ban comes late in your riding career so you take a break and come back as a team director (take your pick of examples). Currently there is no financial disincentive to doping. Conversely, there is no financial incentive to ride clean. Doping is a win-win scenario (financially), same as a hopeless break in a televised tour.

In my opinion, the only option to tackle doping is to introduce lifetime bans for dopers & any team members involved in doping - directors, drivers, masseurs, mechanics, doctors - the lot! And doctors? Strike them off. Their scenario: Make a small fortune in doping, get caught, fall back on making a small fortune as a medical professional. Win-win.

People say there should be room for forgiveness and redemption in sport, that a lifetime ban is too harsh. I say forgiveness and redemption pays too damn well these days.

supackofidiots

Yes, but he's still great

why did he still lie about 09 and 10? no way a 37 year old man finished third place clean.
lance is 41, who is he kidding, he will never be overtly competitive in iron mans/triathlons, surely he's not that deluded.

MPFG

No

supackofidiots wrote: »

why did he still lie about 09 and 10? no way a 37 year old man finished third place clean.
lance is 41, who is he kidding, he will never be overtly competitive in iron mans/triathlons, surely he's not that deluded.

Lance Armstrong has nothing else but the will to compete..he cannot spend a moment when he isn't focused outside himself and competetion is his way of doing that .....without comeptition he is alone with himself....and even Lance doesn't want to do that !

Beasty

No

supackofidiots wrote: »

why did he still lie about 09 and 10? no way a 37 year old man finished third place clean.
lance is 41, who is he kidding, he will never be overtly competitive in iron mans/triathlons, surely he's not that deluded.

Dunno, maybe some of those who voted "no" in the poll could also be considered deluded;)

There are a number of reasons already mentioned in this thread as to why he may not wish to admit to anything following his comeback, including staute of limitations on possible criminal charges and the potential for backdating any penalty to 2005, which could allow him back into competitive sport earlier (if his life ban were to be reduced). The suggestion is that he could potentially command substantial fees just for turning up to some events.

Icyseanfitz

No

watched part 1 last night, what a scummy lying prick is all i could think through out the whole thing, not one minute of it sounded sincere, its just a way for him to try and get back into cycling, while making a tidy sum from interviews, movies,books etc.

dont particularly want to watch part 2 tbh, its all just lies on lies with him

ballygowan1

No

Saying he didn't dope in 2009 and 2010 is absolutely disgraceful. Still lying after everything

Oryx

No

What do you reckon is going to be his next move? I'm sure the guy has a strategy.

Brian?

No

Oryx wrote: »

What do you reckon is going to be his next move? I'm sure the guy has a strategy.

Gracefully disappear into retirement?

Not a hope. There's a book and speaking tour coming at least.

supackofidiots

Yes, but he's still great

I would be very interested to read a new book.

Although Lance cheated, there is a certain sense of admiration in his ''ruthless desire to finish first''.

All the top athletes have it, Floyd Mayweather relentless commitment to training, Rory McIlroy playing three rounds of golf a day since he could hold a set of clubs, Cristiano Ronaldo practicing his skills every day long after everyone else has gone home.

Lance might have cheated, but he has a determination, a desire, an obsessiveness and a fight in him that only a handful possess.

Capt'n Midnight

No

bedirect wrote: »

It now seems everybody was doping in those days, his confession was very shallow, very weepy when talking about the family. It was harmless by Oprah, we still have not heard how he avoided being caught, if he is really sorry, he will tell all. He should get immunity from prosecution & bring every body down with the truth

Can someone repost the link that showed a re-analysis of samples meant that half the field wasn't doping even during the worst times where no to dope meant abandoning all your hopes of ever being a contender as well as most of your future earnings ???

Air in the tyres, water in the bottles my arse.

Capt'n Midnight

No

Beasty wrote: »

To suggest what he has received is akin to a death penalty is a joke. If he'd received 5 years for perjury and been declared bankrupt after paying back all those he has defrauded and libelled then he can start pleading for mercy and asking for some kind of "redemption".

Would that make up for the increase number of premature deaths ?

Moflojo

No

supackofidiots wrote: »

Lance might have cheated, but he has a determination, a desire, an obsessiveness and a fight in him that only a handful possess.

The group you're describing is 'psychopaths'.

Personally, I think Lance should go to prison. He has committed multi-million dollar fraud and ruined the lives of many, many people through defamation, slander and intimidation.

He should be brought to his knees. He should be left with exactly what he tried to leave anyone that stood up to him - nothing.

As an 'athlete' he looked for every little edge he could find to beat his competitors. He is using the exact same approach now as he fights his ban.

Lance once derided those who "can't believe in miracles". He's now asking people to believe another of his miracles - that he has changed. Even Jesus had the good grace to produce some genuinely believable miracles...

T-K-O

Moflojo wrote: »

The group you're describing is 'psychopaths'.

Personally, I think Lance should go to prison. He has committed multi-million dollar fraud and ruined the lives of many, many people through defamation, slander and intimidation.

He should be brought to his knees. He should be left with exactly what he tried to leave anyone that stood up to him - nothing.

As an 'athlete' he looked for every little edge he could find to beat his competitors. He is using the exact same approach now as he fights his ban.

Lance once derided those who "can't believe in miracles". He's now asking people to believe another of his miracles - that he has changed. Even Jesus had the good grace to produce some genuinely believable miracles...

No it's not. Lets forget Armstrong for a minute but what supackofidiots described there was every elite athlete. Mayweather being a great example (he too had testing issues)

Icyseanfitz

No

supackofidiots wrote: »

I would be very interested to read a new book.

Although Lance cheated, there is a certain sense of admiration in his ''ruthless desire to finish first''.

All the top athletes have it, Floyd Mayweather relentless commitment to training, Rory McIlroy playing three rounds of golf a day since he could hold a set of clubs, Cristiano Ronaldo practicing his skills every day long after everyone else has gone home.

Lance might have cheated, but he has a determination, a desire, an obsessiveness and a fight in him that only a handful possess.

including ducking the one guy that could have beat him :pac:

theoneeyedman

Moflojo wrote: »

The group you're describing is 'psychopaths'.

Personally, I think Lance should go to prison. He has committed multi-million dollar fraud and ruined the lives of many, many people through defamation, slander and intimidation.

He should be brought to his knees. He should be left with exactly what he tried to leave anyone that stood up to him - nothing.

As an 'athlete' he looked for every little edge he could find to beat his competitors. He is using the exact same approach now as he fights his ban.

Lance once derided those who "can't believe in miracles". He's now asking people to believe another of his miracles - that he has changed. Even Jesus had the good grace to produce some genuinely believable miracles...

Completely agree....Armstrong crossed so far across the line he doesn't remember where it is . Caught a clip earlier of David Walsh on BBC interview. Listen to the vindictive way Armstrong used the death of Walshs son to discredit him and explain Walsh and his pursuit of Armstrong and cycling dopers ....it is sickening tbh.

T-K-O

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

including ducking the one guy that could have beat him :pac:

Which one was that :pac::pac:

Lumen

Moflojo wrote: »

In my opinion, the only option to tackle doping is to introduce lifetime bans for dopers

Your analysis is flawed. Oft-quoted research has shown that top athletes would die for medals. A life ban is therefore no disincentive. If the choice is to quit the sport clean because you can't compete or dope and risk being forced out, what's the downside to doping? Reputation?

For proof, see Lance. He's got a lifetime ban and massive loss of future earnings, which was foreseeable. Did that stop him? No, because his chance of getting all that in cycling without doping was zero.

Lifetime bans would also mean that fewer people were caught under the bio passport, since the balance of probability would have to be stronger if the penalties were harsher.

The solution is constant vigilance and competent administration of the sport to the point where clean riders can more or less compete on a level playing field.

Icyseanfitz

No

T-K-O wrote: »

Which one was that :pac::pac:

:pac::pac::pac:;):pac::pac::pac:

T-K-O

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac:;):pac::pac::pac:

6 Pacman and 1 Smiley... You're on PEDs

ROK ON

No

Ah, he's not that bad really.

Icyseanfitz

No

ive never taken PED's or any other performance enhancing substances

T-K-O

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

ive never taken PED's or any other performance enhancing substances

What about drugs that make you pedal real fast?

Icyseanfitz

No

T-K-O wrote: »

What about drugs that make you pedal real fast?

you say drugs to pedal i say air in the tyres water in the bottle, theres no difference really....:D

el tel

No

Can't wait until someone provides the evidence he was juiced during his comeback.

Oryx

No

el tel wrote: »

Can't wait until someone provides the evidence he was juiced during his comeback.

Has he learned his lesson, or will he try to sue you for saying that?

Donelson

No

I don't get all this outrage, he is no worse than any other cheat. yes he was a ruthless peace of work. but I seriously doubt the rest of pro cycling are cuddle teddy bears. compare lance to someone like Michael shumacker how deliberately crashed into his opponent to win and in the process risked their lives. would the world be a better place with out this crap, absolute yes! but it is part of human nature.

T-K-O

Donelson wrote: »

I don't get all this outrage, he is no worse than any other cheat. yes he was a ruthless peace of work. but I seriously doubt the rest of pro cycling are cuddle teddy bears. compare lance to someone like Michael shumacker how deliberately crashed into his opponent to win and in the process risked their lives. would the world be a better place with out this crap, absolute yes! but it is part of human nature.

I tend to agree but unlike Shumacher, Mayweather, Johnson etc Armstrongs standing in his sport allowed him to get away with much more.

Cheaters will use everything in their power to cheat. Lance had a bigger arsenal than most but I have no doubt other cheaters would have done the same.

billyhead

Donelson wrote: »

I don't get all this outrage, he is no worse than any other cheat. yes he was a ruthless peace of work. but I seriously doubt the rest of pro cycling are cuddle teddy bears. compare lance to someone like Michael shumacker how deliberately crashed into his opponent to win and in the process risked their lives. would the world be a better place with out this crap, absolute yes! but it is part of human nature.

Nobody is denying his will and determination to win and its an admirable trait in any person. But the man cheated his way to the top. If Marian Jones did time for her cheating so should he. He swore under oath that he never doped. Surely lying this way would result in a jail term?

Diarmuid

No

Lumen wrote: »

Your analysis is flawed. Oft-quoted research has shown that top athletes would die for medals. A life ban is therefore no disincentive. If the choice is to quit the sport clean because you can't compete or dope and risk being forced out, what's the downside to doping? Reputation?

Doesn't most research show that the major deterrent of crime is the risk of getting caught. The severity of the sentence is not a deterrent

ROK ON wrote: »

Ah, he's not that bad really.

Our resident contrarian strikes :P