'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

happytramp

No

funnights74 wrote: »

all cyclists contracts should stipulate that if any cyclists fail a drugs test they forefit their entire salary for the term of that contract, even in retrospect.

What if someone actually is innocent, but fail a test due to something they ate/drank/slept with?

(Is that a real thing by the way?)

hardCopy

No

happytramp wrote: »

funnights74 wrote: »

all cyclists contracts should stipulate that if any cyclists fail a drugs test they forefit their entire salary for the term of that contract, even in retrospect.

What if someone actually is innocent, but fail a test due to something they ate/drank/slept with?

(Is that a real thing by the way?)

That's usually the first defense, witness Contador's assertion that the unauthorized asthma medication in his system came from a dodgy steak. Frank Schleck claims he was poisoned.

Athletes need to take responsibility for what they put in their body.

dermur

No

Excellent open letter from Ashenden to Liggett in response to his most recent drivel...

http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2012/filthy-business-indeed

Hermy

No

It's been posted before but worth a second look - it's a very well written piece!

dermur

No

Hermy wrote: »

It's been posted before but worth a second look - it's a very well written piece!

Ooops - hadn't noticed. Only saw the article yesterday on velocity nation and assumed it was hot off the press!

But it sure is worth a second look! Liggett really should be run out of town coming out with drivel like that.

Flandria

No

happytramp wrote: »

What if someone actually is innocent, but fail a test due to something they ate/drank/slept with?

(Is that a real thing by the way?)

Then you end up with excuses like this...

Following a positive test for EPO after a half-marathon, she claimed heavy rainfall on the day of race had caused water to stream over hidden medical waste somewhere near the course. As she ran, the EPO-laced rainwater splashed onto her shorts, thus contaminating her urine when she later provided a sample at the doping control.

http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/29472905178/itsrainingepo

hardCopy

No

Caught Lance's inspirational bullsh in dodgeball tonight.

Who's a quitter now Lance?

a148pro

No

Flandria wrote: »

Then you end up with excuses like this...



http://inrng.tumblr.com/post/29472905178/itsrainingepo

There's a webpage somewhere with a list of the ridiculous excuses dopers have come up with, and the reference above to the long lost brother thing is among them I think. It just goes to show how far the whole thing is gone that the athletes are so deluded into thinking this kind of crap will stick. The attitude is clearly that everyone is doping so I'm committing no sin by coming out with some fanciful nonsense when stopped - standing over something that incredible is less morally offensive than doping itself, because everyone else is at it but just doesn't get caught.

People should check out that recent RTE documentary on performance enhancement in sport, really excellent documentary done by an Irish runner. Also an excellent documentary recently on the 1988 Seoul Olympics 100m. We all recall Ben Johnson being stripped of his title in disgrace, but something like six of the eight finalists were subsequently implicated. Would love to see someone make a documentary taking a very high level amateur, doping him, measure his increased performance and see if he can pass tests. Might open some eyes.

I'm all for longer bans, I mean much longer bans, effectively career ending bans if you're already in about five years and should know better. But as ridiculous as those excuses are there is the prospect of a small minority of people being caught in the wrong - someone linked to an excellent article on why the WADA system is a little unfair in requiring mandatory bans even where they find that the person didn't mean to take a banned substance. It can happen.

Hermy

No

Maybe this could be the start of something...

From adelaidenow.com
LANCE Armstrong's lifetime ban by the US Anti-Doping Agency will keep him from running next month's Chicago Marathon.

MrMischief

No

This whole Armstrong saga leaves me with a sick feeling in my gut!!

An american friend introduced me to the whole Armstrong story whilst living in Boston during the summer of 2000. He was hailed as a hero for his achievements on and off the bike and sure who could argue. I was intrigued and emotionally caught up in the whole LA love affair from that summer on.

Now its just a feeling of betrayal. Thanks to all the links on here the people that voted NO or Yes,but he's still great can continue to live in ignorance.

Hermy

No

MrMischief wrote: »

Thanks to all the links on here the people that voted NO or Yes,but he's still great can continue to live in ignorance.

Thanks to all the links there is no excuse for ignorance.

Capt'n Midnight

No

Just a reminder of a previous survey The Dilemma asks whether athletes would pursue sporting success (an Olympic Gold Medal) via an undetectable performance enhancing drug that would kill them in five years time; 52% reported they would take the drug (Goldman et al, 1984). The dilemma was offered to elite athletes across a 15 year period with stability of response found by Goldman et al across this time. This gives a very powerful athlete intention to use base-line measure.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/phys-ed-will-olympic-athletes-dope-if-they-know-it-might-kill-them/

There’s a well-known survey in sports, known as the Goldman Dilemma. For it, a researcher, Bob Goldman, began asking elite athletes in the 1980s whether they would take a drug that guaranteed them a gold medal but would also kill them within five years. More than half of the athletes said yes. When he repeated the survey biannually for the next decade, the results were always the same. About half of the athletes were quite ready to take the bargain.

corny

No

MrMischief wrote: »

This whole Armstrong saga leaves me with a sick feeling in my gut!!

An american friend introduced me to the whole Armstrong story whilst living in Boston during the summer of 2000. He was hailed as a hero for his achievements on and off the bike and sure who could argue. I was intrigued and emotionally caught up in the whole LA love affair from that summer on.

Now its just a feeling of betrayal. Thanks to all the links on here the people that voted NO or Yes,but he's still great can continue to live in ignorance.

Tell me about it. I kind of wish i knew next to noting about Armstrong or professional cycling.

When i first watched the TDF or Flanders and the likes i thought this really is a fantastic sport. I loved it. Now when i watch any race i still like it but i just can't get over the fact lots are convicted cheats and most of the rest could be cheats who haven't been caught yet.

The sad thing is this is the way its always been and i'm nearly certain this is the way it will always be. There will never be redemption.

marienbad

No

corny wrote: »

Tell me about it. I kind of wish i knew next to noting about Armstrong or professional cycling.

When i first watched the TDF or Flanders and the likes i thought this really is a fantastic sport. I loved it. Now when i watch any race i still like it but i just can't get over the fact lots are convicted cheats and most of the rest could be cheats who haven't been caught yet.

The sad thing is this is the way its always been and i'm nearly certain this is the way it will always be. There will never be redemption.

I would'nt be so pessimistic. It is only a matter of time until the sponsors get the message and all it takes is one big one to set the ball rolling.

donfers

No

has wiggins commented on the armstrong situation yet?

and more to the point....

as the current golden boy should he speak out and condemn lance?

alfalad

No

Another article in the Sunday Times by Walsh, again quite good without breaking any new ground on it. But one thing that's noted is that the UCI have said they are unlike to challenge USADA, so the title stripping stands. Although they are going to start looking at the evidence this week.

Wibbs

No

marienbad wrote: »

I would'nt be so pessimistic. It is only a matter of time until the sponsors get the message and all it takes is one big one to set the ball rolling.

I dunno M. I suspect drugs and illegal enhancements will always be in sports of this nature. Even if you take all the money away people will still look for any advantage. I read a few years back of odd goings on in US senior amateur bike races, where some 45 year olds were doing better times than the 25 year olds. Because they're amateur they're not(or weren't) tested. Now this is local club racing, grey haired weekend warriors in latex. Some admitted privately they were taking "extras" but claimed it was because of "Male menopause". Oddball stuff.

At this stage I'd be looking for advantage in other ways. IE here we have a group of people who over the last 20 years plus have taken various concoctions to make them stronger more efficient and with more stamina. I'm quite sure people like Dr Ferrari and others have been taking extensive notes on regimes etc and the testers have been taking blood by the litre. IMHO that's damn near a large scale medical experiment that surely has applications in the real world? Like those aforementioned seniors setting at their peak times, 20 years after their peak has crested. If they came clean(no pun) the data could prove medically useful for all sorts of age related degeneration.

Blazer

Yes, but he's still great

People will always cheat irregardless of what sport they play in etc.
These people just cannot handle being inferior to better sportsmen, players etc.

Be it a Cyclist or boxer, a F1 team using banned technology etc, an amateur golfer cooking his handicap so he can win prizes etc or the average pc/console gamer who uses hacks etc to boost his skill it all boils down to a simple thing.

People will always cheat no matter how much you try and stop them...and the authorities/software will always, always be behind them.

C3PO

Wibbs wrote: »

Now this is local club racing, grey haired weekend warriors in latex.

Oh dear .... now that's a thought!!

Lumen

Wibbs wrote: »

I read a few years back of odd goings on in US senior amateur bike races, where some 45 year olds were doing better times than the 25 year olds.

Google doping fred for a recent example.

dave2pvd

No

Wibbs wrote: »

.........local club racing, grey haired weekend warriors in latex.

I would like to state unequivocally: we do not race in Latex in the US.

To do so would probably result in a 2 year suspension.

marienbad

No

Blazer wrote: »

People will always cheat irregardless of what sport they play in etc.
These people just cannot handle being inferior to better sportsmen, players etc.

Be it a Cyclist or boxer, a F1 team using banned technology etc, an amateur golfer cooking his handicap so he can win prizes etc or the average pc/console gamer who uses hacks etc to boost his skill it all boils down to a simple thing.

People will always cheat no matter how much you try and stop them...and the authorities/software will always, always be behind them.

For sure people will always and have always cheated, but it is only in the last 20 years or so that we have cheats virtually running some sports. And the root cause of this is not just winning but money.

So until the sponsors get the message it looks like a hopeless case but when they do get the message then we will see change.

MrMischief

No

Hermy wrote: »

Thanks to all the links there is no excuse for ignorance.

Thanks for the correction!

Hopefully the next step is to ban him from all competitive sports i.e. Triathlon/Adventure racing etc. I have a little, just a little, respect for cheats who come clean and show their remorse but LA's attitude towards the whole thing would rile you up even further.

As already posted, i'm also a bit dissappointed not to hear aother Pro's thoughts on the whole affair or are they afraid of dipping their wick where its not wanted i.e. Wiggins, N Roche (usually outspoken), C Evans etc

Oh anyone ever here what Andy Schleks response was to Frank getting caught doping in the the TDF?

Reekwind

No

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno M. I suspect drugs and illegal enhancements will always be in sports of this nature. Even if you take all the money away people will still look for any advantage

Of course. But that's what the authorities are there for. With Armstrong the warning signs were there in '99 but the UCI ignored them. Had the latter been doing its job properly then we'd never have reached this depressing stage

hardCopy

No

MrMischief wrote: »

Hermy wrote: »

Thanks to all the links there is no excuse for ignorance.

Thanks for the correction!

Hopefully the next step is to ban him from all competitive sports i.e. Triathlon/Adventure racing etc. I have a little, just a little, respect for cheats who come clean and show their remorse but LA's attitude towards the whole thing would rile you up even further.

As already posted, i'm also a bit dissappointed not to hear aother Pro's thoughts on the whole affair or are they afraid of dipping their wick where its not wanted i.e. Wiggins, N Roche (usually outspoken), C Evans etc

Oh anyone ever here what Andy Schleks response was to Frank getting caught doping in the the TDF?

He's already banned from all ITU and WTC triathlons and IAAF sanctioned races, as they operate under the WADA code. No doubt some unscrupulous promoters of non-sanctioned races will still invite him to generate interest, especially in the US.

Ole Rodrigo

No

The rationalization of cheating :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmJay_qdNc

noddy69

No

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2012/09/bald-faced_truth_with_john_can_380.html

Good to hear from former postal riders not hiding from saying they believe he is guilty, worth a listen.

ThisRegard

No

It's ok folks, Jimmy "wheres me memory" Man has rowed in to clear things up for us, Lance, and Michelle for that matter, were definitively clean. That's that then.

Jimmy Magee: Michelle Smith should have carried Olympic Torch (via TheJournal.ie) http://jrnl.ie/598073

Some of the comments are as depressing as the main story itself.

GT_TDI_150

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's ok folks, Jimmy "wheres me memory" Man has rowed in to clear things up for us, Lance, and Michelle for that matter, were definitively clean. That's that then.

Jimmy Magee: Michelle Smith should have carried Olympic Torch (via TheJournal.ie) http://jrnl.ie/598073

Some of the comments are as depressing as the main story itself.

Speachless at that really!

RobFowl

No

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

ThisRegard wrote: »

It's ok folks, Jimmy "wheres me memory" Man has rowed in to clear things up for us, Lance, and Michelle for that matter, were definitively clean. That's that then.

Jimmy Magee: Michelle Smith should have carried Olympic Torch (via TheJournal.ie) http://jrnl.ie/598073

Some of the comments are as depressing as the main story itself.

Speachless at that really!

Jimmy has long been on his own on this one. I'd be inclined to dismiss it as a quirk of opinion by a popular institution but a bit of a dinosaur. The day when he would be an opinion leader or barometer have long since gone.

Sad to see though.