'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

Flandria

No

morana wrote: »

wonder what he will say tomorrow morning

"Now where is that Christmas card list?"

Flandria

No

Here we go... let's get reading...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/109619079

greenmat

No

Can we redo the poll now that the Lance fans have something to read, sorry lite their fires with?

deandean

Oh dear.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/eleven-ex-teammates-testify-against-armstrong-162322247.html
Eleven Ex-Teammates Testify Against Armstrong



Eleven of Lance Armstrong's former teammates testified against him in the US Anti-Doping Agency's investigation of the cyclist, it has been revealed.
The agency said the evidence had exposed "the most sophisticated, professionalised and successful doping program that sport has ever seen".
Armstrong dropped his fight against the charges in August, a move that was expected to mean he would avoid facing his former colleagues' testimony in court.
But details of the allegations are now due to be made public anyway, with USADA to release the reasoning behind its decision to hand the cyclist a lifetime suspension and erase his seven Tour de France titles.
In a news release previewing the decision, the agency's chief executive, Travis Tygart, said it would include more than 1,000 pages of evidence.
He listed 11 of Armstrong's former teammates, including George Hincapie, Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, as among those providing evidence that led to the sanction.
In delivering the report to the International Cycling Union , Mr Tygart called for the federation to create a meaningful program to help clean up the sport.
He said the evidence showed the code of silence that previously dominated cycling has been shattered.
Mr Tygart added that evidence from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team's doping activities, provided testimony for the report. Armstrong won all but one of his Tour titles from 1999-2005 with the USPS team.
Other cyclists named in the news release were Frankie Andreu, Michael Barry, Tom Danielson, Levi Leiphimer, Stephen Swart, Christian Vande Velde, Jonathan Vaughters and David Zabriskie.
Mr Tygart said: "I have personally talked with and heard these athletes' stories and firmly believe that, collectively, these athletes, if forgiven and embraced, have a chance to leave a legacy far greater for the good of the sport than anything they ever did on a bike."
In a letter to USADA attorneys sent on Tuesday, Armstrong's attorney dismissed any evidence provided by Landis and Hamilton, calling them "serial perjurers" and claiming they had "told diametrically contradictory stories under oath".
But Hincapie's role in the investigation could be more damaging, as he was one of Armstrong's closest and most loyal teammates through the years.
Hincapie admitted in a statement released in the wake of the USADA news release that he took performance-enhancing drugs.
"It's extremely difficult today to acknowledge that during a part of my career I used banned substances," he said.
"Early in my professional career, it became clear to me that, given the widespread use of performance enhancing drugs by cyclists at the top of the profession, it was not possible to compete at the highest level without them.
"I deeply regret that choice and sincerely apologise to my family, teammates and fans."

Flandria

No

The evidence is damning and stunning. There is meat on every page so far and I'm only on page 18 FFS!

leftism

No

Oh man, there's chapters called " The A-Team" and "Getting serious with Dr. Ferrari". I usually hate reading official reports, but this thing looks like its gonna be a seriously entertaining read!

ThisRegard

No

The USADA site is creaking under the pressure at the moment but has anyone seen a link to a pdf of the report?

ThisRegard

No

Flandria wrote: »

The evidence is damning and stunning. There is meat on every page so far and I'm only on page 18 FFS!

And none of it is from the aborted federal investigation, they never even received that evidence.

Flandria

No

Try the scribd link I posted

Lusk Doyle

No

Flandria wrote: »

Try the scribd link I posted

It's just the front cover!

ThisRegard

No

Flandria wrote: »

Try the scribd link I posted

Cheers, on mobile but it only seems to share the link or open it in the scribd app, didn't seem to be a way to save as a pdf.

Walsh is on a Off the Ball now.

del88

No

Their lashing the UCI out of it.....Page 157/163

Trojan

No

No help from the DA:

Reasoned Descision wrote:

None of the evidence USADA summarizes in this Reasoned Decision was obtained from the United States federal law enforcement investigation involving Mr. Armstrong. After the announcement by U.S. District Attorney Andre Birotte on February 3, 2012, that he was discontinuing the criminal investigation of Armstrong’s conduct, USADA formally requested copies of non-grand jury evidence from the case.

However, no documents have been received to date. As a result, none of the evidence assembled by USADA has come from federal law enforcement.

Flandria

No

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

It's just the front cover!

Scroll, grasshopper

TheBlaaMan

No

Here the 202 page summary for those having difficulty reading it on the link.

leftism

No

Thats actually one of the most surprising statements! I was assuming the USADA report would be a rehashed version of the Federal case...

Trojan

No

And USADA got no help from the UCI:

Reasoned Decision wrote:

UCI is conflicted out of any role in results management in this case because it has publicly prejudged the credibility of the witnesses and the evidence. In 2010 when Mr. Landis publicly raised his allegations of Mr. Armstrong’s doping, in an Associated Press article UCI President McQuaid responded before undertaking any investigation whatsoever, contending that Mr. Landis’ allegations in his April 30, 2010 email were “nothing new” and that, “he already made those accusations in the past.”836 Rather than investigate the allegations, instead the UCI sued Mr. Landis.837

Similarly, when Tyler Hamilton publicly explained his knowledge of Mr. Armstrong’s doping in a 60 Minutes interview nationally telecast in the United States and reported around the world in May, 2011, the UCI’s Honorary President and current UCI Management Committee Member, Hein Verbruggen, stated: That’s impossible, because there is nothing. I repeat again: Lance Armstrong has never used doping. Never, never, never. And I say this not because I am a friend of his, because that is not true. I say it because I’m sure.”838 These comments during the pendency of USADA’s investigation by the UCI’s Honorary President, who also currently serves on the UCI Management Committee, are further evidence that even before USADA’s investigation was complete the contention that Mr. Armstrong engaged in doping was pre-judged and rejected by the UCI, despite the fact that neither Mr. McQuaid, nor Mr. Verbruggen, nor any other representative of the UCI, have met with Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Landis, or apparently, with any other of USADA’s numerous witnesses concerning these matters.

As set forth in the affidavit of former professional cyclist Jörg Jaksche, the UCI has responded with similar disdain and disinterest towards other cyclists that have tried to bring forth evidence of the serious extent of doping within the peloton. After coming forward and admitting doping in 2007, Mr. Jaksche spoke with UCI lawyers and officials, including Mr. McQuaid, seeking to explain the level of doping that had been taking place on Team Telekom, ONCE, CSC and Liberty Seguros, however, according to Mr. Jaksche, “the UCI showed zero interest in hearing the full story about doping on these teams and did not seek to follow up with me.”839

Rather, Jaksche reports that “McQuaid told me he would have liked me to have handled things differently from which I can only conclude he wished I had not been as forthcoming regarding the degree of doping that was taking place in the peloton.”840

Similarly, after Italian cyclist Filippo Simeoni testified regarding Dr. Ferrari’s involvement in doping and was given a reduced sanction by the Italian cycling federation for his substantial assistance UCI appealed seeking to impose a lengthier sanction upon a rider who had provided invaluable assistance to a law enforcement investigation of doping in cycling. When the foregoing is combined with the UCI’s prejudgment of evidence in this case, it is clear that UCI is conflicted out of any results management role in this case.

ThisRegard

No

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Here the 202 page summary for those having difficulty reading it on the link.

Super BlaaMan, that's what I was looking for so I could mail it to my kindle for some discrete bed time reading.

drogdub

No

Levi in Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444799904578048672603746526.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet#articleTabs%3Darticle

titan18

Just been reading the first 50 or so pages and I dont think it's that great. I mean, it's cool they got so many to come forward (although I'd imagine Lance would get more to come forward and say he didn't dope tbf), but there's a lot in there that's really circumstantial or something you can level against a bunch of teams e.g, Lance using a thermos = using EPO, and the stuff about Lance, Hamilton and Livingston going training in mountains, training hard in the offseason, and the mathematical approach to cycling with calculating wattage, body weight, power etc is pretty much a bunch of things Sky (in particular) do, although I'd say most big teams do the going away to train in high moutains.

morana

No

titan18 wrote: »

Just been reading the first 50 or so pages and I dont think it's that great. I mean, it's cool they got so many to come forward (although I'd imagine Lance would get more to come forward and say he didn't dope tbf), but there's a lot in there that's really circumstantial or something you can level against a bunch of teams e.g, Lance using a thermos = using EPO, and the stuff about Lance, Hamilton and Livingston going training in mountains, training hard in the offseason, and the mathematical approach to cycling with calculating wattage, body weight, power etc is pretty much a bunch of things Sky (in particular) do, although I'd say most big teams do the going away to train in high moutains.

thats only a summary,. the full judgement is 1000 pages and apparo contains most of the evidence.

titan18

morana wrote: »

thats only a summary,. the full judgement is 1000 pages and apparo contains most of the evidence.

Oh, I know. I'll probably read it, or at least a summary of the stuff when it's all released, but just from the first 50 or so pages, I think it's pretty poor

leftism

No

Trojan wrote: »

And USADA got no help from the UCI:

Somehow, I find that bit less surprising...

mcgratheoin

No

titan18 wrote: »

Oh, I know. I'll probably read it, or at least a summary of the stuff when it's all released, but just from the first 50 or so pages, I think it's pretty poor

Keep reading.... It's the Hincapie (and Levi) evidence that we've all really been dying for I guess - the rest is mostly out there. I'd like to see transcripts of the affidavits from each rider.

leftism

No

I'm noticing a common theme with all these admissions of guilt:

"Up to 2006, the sport was a filthy cesspit of doping and corruption. I was forced against my will to take part in this dirty game".

then

"the sport is now clean a whistle, and my admission is gonna ensure that it stays that way."


I'm a little uneasy about these statements, and i would not be so quick announce that the sport is officially clean. I won't be happy until official anti-doping policy is taken away from the UCI. The goals of promotion and policing are so conflicting, that it is impossible for the same organisation to do both. That is probably the biggest lesson that needs to be taken from this whole mess...

el tel

No

When Betsy Andreu said Lance told doctors the list of PEDs he was using, I would hope that medical notes might have recorded this.

I wonder if any medical notes were ever inspected or made available, or the if the medics were ever interviewed by any of the investigations.

Bahra12

No

el tel wrote: »

When Betsy Andreu said Lance told doctors the list of PEDs he was using, I would hope that medical notes might have recorded this.

I wonder if any medical notes were ever inspected or made available, or the if the medics were ever interviewed by any of the investigations.

Probably is protected by doctor confidentiality. I would doubt doctors notes would ever be made piblic

TheBlaaMan

No

Levi accepts the 6 months sanction, but also forfeiture of all prizes from June 2099 to July 2007. Thats gonna hurt his bank balance if nothing else, but the hit to his palmares in that period is fairly huge. (see below). Its going to get messy: he will presumably repay prize money that will be re-allocated to the "new" position holders when his position is removed..........

1999
1st National Time Trial Champion
1st Overall Tour de Beauce
1st Stage 3
2nd Pan American Games Men's Road Race
3rd Sea Otter Classic

2000
1st Stage 2 Circuit Franco-Belge

2001
1st Stage 5 Redlands Bicycle Classic
1st Mountains Classification
1st Stage 1 Sea Otter Classic
2nd Overall Vuelta a Castilla y León
3rd Overall Vuelta a España

2002
1st Overall Route du Sud
1st Stage 3 (ITT)
8th Overall Tour de France

2003
8th Overall Critérium du Dauphiné

2004
1st Stage 4 Setmana Catalana
9th Overall Tour de France

2005
1st Overall Deutschland Tour
1st King of the Mountains classification
1st Stage 4
2nd Overall Tour de Georgia
3rd Overall Dauphiné Libéré
6th Overall Tour de France

2006
1st Overall Dauphiné Libéré
2nd Overall Deutschland Tour
1st Stage 5
6th Overall Tour of California
1st Prologue
1st King of the Mountains
12th Overall Tour de France
Combativity award Stage 18

2007
1st USA Cycling Professional Tour
1st National Road Race Champion
1st Overall Tour of California
1st Prologue & Stage 5 (ITT)
1st Copperopolis Road Race
Tour de Georgia
1st Stage 4 (ITT) & 5
1st Stage 3 (ITT) Tour of Missouri
2nd Overall Deutschland Tour
3rd Overall Tour de France
1st Stage 19 (ITT)




EDIT: Same for Christian Vande Velde so presumably for Danielson and all the others......gulp. Guess I should have expected this, but all along discussion was about how Armstrongs titles would be divvied out.

Flandria

No

el tel wrote: »

When Betsy Andreu said Lance told doctors the list of PEDs he was using, I would hope that medical notes might have recorded this.

I wonder if any medical notes were ever inspected or made available, or the if the medics were ever interviewed by any of the investigations.

There were no notes because the Indiana University Hospital which subsequently received donations of over $1m from Armstrong couldn't, em, find the doctors to produce in court. LA won the case against SCA and pocketed $7.5m...

morana

No

This is one team and we know Telecom, astana, Rabobank, Festina, etcc. were dirty so how the hell could Scanlon ever make it? Just think of all the really talented bike riders who were not able to survive because of the mass doping in the sport.

It's sickening to see Jens Voigt with the Motoman and also going to do a ride with Armstrong..gone completely down in my estimation.

I am also annoyed that apart from GE Larsson I havent heard any of the current pros make any statement. Maybe tomorrow we might get something.

(PS noticed the Yes vote in the poll has gone up!!!)