'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

petethedrummer

No

Sooooo, this 2 week delay.........seems kind of insignificant now, doesn't it?

A P

No

My name is Lance Armstrong, you know I had cancer
But USADA recently called me a chancer

I won 7 years in a row without cheating
I promise it was only bread I was eating

They accused me of lying and of subterfuge
I promise it wasn't my centrifuge

I'm clean as a whistle, I need you to know
That I would never use EPO

Or CERA or steroids or human growth hormone
I wouldn't know an Actovegin if I saw one

I believe in Alberto and Bradley and Horner
And the elephant in the room in the corner

I've a lot of time for Patrick McQuaid
And I wish Hein Verbruggen had stayed

As for David Walsh, Whittle and Kimmage
The bastards did sweet fa for my image

But my fanboys love me and will never believe
That I carried some clean urine up my sleeve

I'm highly indebted to Michele Ferrari
And to Motoman for all the stuff that he carried

I truly believe all the haters are bitter
The fact of the matter is I was just fitter

Levi and Tyler can suck on my ball
Landis has no credibility at all

I'll swear to you on an American flag
That I never used a single blood bag

I was blessed with an abnormal haematocrit
Travis Tygart is just talking ****

The bastard probably was never more happy
With the dodgy confession from George Hincapie

My best advice as a 7-times winner?
Never leave home without your blood spinner

titan18

NIMAN wrote: »

So who can come on here now and defend him, after hearing that news today?

The worlds biggest ever sporting drugs cheat. Fact.

His lawyer called it a 'one sided hacket job'. Well if he had had the balls to contest the chargesm then it wouldn't have been one sided.

My opinion is pretty much the same in regards to doping with him. He doped, others doped, he beat them. Course, there are people who refused and held to that who lost out, but if I'm going to go and look at Armstrong's biggest competition, and guys who may be handed Tour titles or whatever, then I don't see the difference doping wise between them and Lance.

The bullying/witness intimidation is a different story tbf, but it's not like he was the only one in the peleton who bullied people who refused to dope.

I haven't read the full document yet, only sections of it, but I do find it funny that a lot of stuff in there can be levelled at a lot of other teams and riders e.g the going to places like Tenerife for training, using calculations and science to gain an advantage, training during the off-season, having an A team of dedicated riders.

I know there's a lot more to the document, but I find it weird that that was put in, as if that's evidence of doping (the Tenerife thing is dodgy tbf), there's a lot more than Lance who should be called out

Cienciano

No

Don't worry folks, Phil Liggot has been located:



(robbed from here)
https://twitter.com/ffflow/status/256163239350661120/photo/1

sy

No

A P wrote: »

My name is Lance Armstrong, you know I had cancer
But USADA recently called me a chancer

I won 7 years in a row without cheating
I promise it was only bread I was eating

They accused me of lying and of subterfuge
I promise it wasn't my centrifuge

I'm clean as a whistle, I need you to know
That I would never use EPO

Or CERA or steroids or human growth hormone
I wouldn't know an Actovegin if I saw one

I believe in Alberto and Bradley and Horner
And the elephant in the room in the corner

I've a lot of time for Patrick McQuaid
And I wish Hein Verbruggen had stayed

As for David Walsh, Whittle and Kimmage
The bastards did sweet fa for my image

But my fanboys love me and will never believe
That I carried some clean urine up my sleeve

I'm highly indebted to Michele Ferrari
And to Motoman for all the stuff that he carried

I truly believe all the haters are bitter
The fact of the matter is I was just fitter

Levi and Tyler can suck on my ball
Landis has no credibility at all

I'll swear to you on an American flag
That I never used a single blood bag

I was blessed with an abnormal haematocrit
Travis Tygart is just talking ****

The bastard probably was never more happy
With the dodgy confession from George Hincapie

My best advice as a 7-times winner?
Never leave home without your blood spinner

Brilliant :-) Nearly P****** myself. Thanks A P

hardCopy

No

corny wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

So who can come on here now and defend him, after hearing that news today?

The worlds biggest ever sporting drugs cheat. Fact.

His lawyer called it a 'one sided hacket job'. Well if he had had the balls to contest the chargesm then it wouldn't have been one sided.

Tbf no one has tried. The 36 who voted no were either taking the piss or too pissed to realise they were voting no.

Hats off to USADA. This is the stuff of legend!

Not on here thankfully, twitter is hilarious though, check out #teamlance

2 Wheels Good

No

Flandria wrote: »

Seperate transcripts of the emails.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/JR+Exhibit+A.pdf

Read through them, nothing out of the way other than asking for a legal letter stating they never doped. Am I missing something in the emails?

buffalo

No

It feels like Judgement Day.

petethedrummer

No

2 Wheels Good wrote: »

Read through them, nothing out of the way other than asking for a legal letter stating they never doped. Am I missing something in the emails?

It's late so I might be missing the sarcasm, so I'll take your question at face value...

He said he had cut ties with Ferrari (the world's leading doping doctor) in 2004. His working with Ferrari is what sparked off suspicion in the first place and the start of Greg Lemond's trouble. This is concrete evidence that he hadn't cut those ties.

• When Italian police and customs officials raided the home of longtime Armstrong teammate Yarolslav Popovych last November, they discovered documents and PEDs as well as texts and e-mails linking Armstrong's team to controversial Italian physician Michele Ferrari as recently as 2009, though Armstrong had said he cut ties with Ferrari in 2004

You'd have to be a touch naive to believe that arranging meetings with the world's leading doping doctor at key times in the lead up to big races had nothing to do with doping.

Naive is a tad derogatory. So I'm going to say that you would have to have tremendous faith in the good nature of people to not suspect that these meetings had anything to do with doping. I admire your optimism.

wpd

No

The day pro cycling died. Rotten to the core and looking at those involved I doubt much has changed.

Trojan

No

wpd wrote: »

The day pro cycling died.

On the contrary, this is the day pro cycling got CPR and started breathing, however faintly, again.

It still needs a lot of help, and the (figurative) razing to the ground of the UCI would be a good start.

petethedrummer

No

wpd wrote: »

The day pro cycling died. Rotten to the core and looking at those involved I doubt much has changed.

While Hein Verbruggen was head of the UCI the Festina scandal was uncovered. Under Pat's reign we have had Operacion Puerto and now this.
Cycling has turned many corners and overcome many obstacles in order to become the clean sport it now is. I commend both Pat and Hein for their efforts.

titan18

Trojan wrote: »

On the contrary, this is the day pro cycling got CPR and started breathing, however faintly, again.

It still needs a lot of help, and the (figurative) razing to the ground of the UCI would be a good start.

If sponsors decide it's not worth the effort and potential bad press to be involved after this, then there could be a lot of trouble for races, teams and coverage

Trojan

No

titan18 wrote: »

If sponsors decide it's not worth the effort and potential bad press to be involved after this, then there could be a lot of trouble for races, teams and coverage

Yes, that may well happen in the short term. The sport may seriously constrict for a couple of years as a result.

But the longer term impact will be positive. Businesses will not avoid the opportunities in the long term when they see a good audiences and sponsorships available. They will come back (if they leave).

--

(It's so tempting to use cancer analogies when discussing this, but I fear a Godwin effect).

househero

Was in the gym today when skynews said 11 of his teams mates testified against him. That's sad.

I wonder if the whole team were on gear and blackmailed in to making lance the fall guy.

Professional athletes take steroids in every sport, it doesn't make it right, its just sad that this has been dug up so long after he recovered from cancer and won the tour d France so many times.

Do we know why its taken so long to come out?

wpd

No

petethedrummer wrote: »

wpd wrote: »

The day pro cycling died. Rotten to the core and looking at those involved I doubt much has changed.

While Hein Verbruggen was head of the UCI the Festina scandal was uncovered. Under Pat's reign we have had Operacion Puerto and now this.
Cycling has turned many corners and overcome many obstacles in order to become the clean sport it now is. I commend both Pat and Hein for their efforts.

how can you commend the uci when they are alleged to be part of the cover up

alfalad

No

househero wrote: »

Was in the gym today when skynews said 11 of his teams mates testified against him. That's sad.

I wonder if the whole team were on gear and blackmailed in to making lance the fall guy.

Professional athletes take steroids in every sport, it doesn't make it right, its just sad that this has been dug up so long after he recovered from cancer and won the tour d France so many times.

Do we know why its taken so long to come out?

I advise you read the thread and the articles linked in the last couple of pages. One thing Lance was not and never has been is the fall guy.

househero

alfalad wrote: »

One thing Lance was not and never has been is the fall guy.

Why did his 'team mates' dib him in 2 the fuzz?

Fr D Maugire

No

househero wrote: »

Why did his 'team mates' dib him in 2 the fuzz?

Because they had to, they were called as witnesses in a federal investigation into US Postal/Armstrong in which the options are tell the truth or lie and get sent to prison for perjury. If for example one witness had a completely different story from the rest, then it would be obvious that they were lying, that is why there is 11 first hand witnesses with corraborating stories.

Even though the federal case was dropped, the same witnesses were then called by USADA, if they then changed the story they told the feds, then once again they could have faced the possibility of prison for lying to the feds.

Telling the truth or facing prison is a pretty easy choice to make I would think, especially concerning a guy like Armstrong.

You really need to read up on this case before making embarrasing statements.

househero

Don't worry I'm not embarrassed to ask.

I didn't realise just how serious they were taking the whole thing.

Its sad to see a cancer surviving legend being publicly humiliated after a cover up.

househero

Don't worry I'm not embarrassed to ask.

I didn't realise just how serious they were taking it all, there seems to be less of a fuss being made over Jimmy Savile. Strange.

Fr D Maugire

No

househero wrote: »

Don't worry I'm not embarrassed to ask.

I didn't realise just how serious they were taking the whole thing.

Its sad to see a cancer surviving legend being publicly humiliated after a cover up.

Perhaps that is because Armstrong used cancer as his 'front' for his misdemeanors like gangs/mafia use legitimate businesses. You have to seriously question the ethics and morality of a guy who was fortunate enough to survive cancer, yet chose to pump himself full of drugs in the search for glory and money all the while holding himself up as holier than thou and using cancer to cover his tracks. Without doubt the biggest and most despicable fraud in sporting history.

alfalad

No

househero wrote: »

Don't worry I'm not embarrassed to ask.

I didn't realise just how serious they were taking it all, there seems to be less of a fuss being made over Jimmy Savile. Strange.

This is the cycling forum and Lance was one of the most famous sports people in the world. What Jimmy did was despicable and horrible and evil and i'm sure has left scares on his victims for life. Of course everybody feels for them but that doesn't mean Lance should get away with what he has done.

alfalad

No

househero wrote: »

Don't worry I'm not embarrassed to ask.

I didn't realise just how serious they were taking the whole thing.

Its sad to see a cancer surviving legend being publicly humiliated after a cover up.

The only reason you feel he is a "legend" is because he cheated and doped and bullied his way to the top of the sport. Given he has cheated/lied/forced drugs on others etc etc it's not at all a sad day, it's a wonderful day. It shows that no matter how much of "legend" you think you are the truth will out and that is great as it shows no one is above the rules!

May I ask if you have put any research into what happened over the last 13 year on this matter, read books such as from Lance to Landis etc or did you read a headline and felt, he survived cancer, he won the tours, so what if he took the odd pill, so did everyone else, he never failed a drug test, leave him alone??

househero

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Perhaps that is because Armstrong used cancer as his 'front' for his misdemeanors like gangs/mafia use legitimate businesses.

Haha I don't think I have ever heard of the Mafia using the old cancer cover up

I'm afraid to ruin your image of sports, but the vast majority of professional sports athletes have used or are using performance enhancing substances. If you took drugs you would not win the tour d France, even with 2 healthy balls. Professional athletes are naturally superior and determined, drugs only enhance their performance.

Personally, I think its too late to kick him in the balls for what he did.

alfalad

No

househero wrote: »

Haha I don't think I have ever heard of the Mafia using the old cancer cover up

I'm afraid to ruin your image of sports, but the vast majority of professional sports athletes have used or are using performance enhancing substances. If you took drugs you would not win the tour d France, even with 2 healthy balls. Professional athletes are naturally superior and determined, drugs only enhance their performance.

Personally, I think its too late to kick him in the balls for what he did.

Clearly and thankfully those in a position to help clean up the sport don't think it's too late. It may well be the case that many sports people use banned substances but that doesn't make it right and we should all be trying to have sports clean.

househero

You are right Alfa, sport should be clean, I am often beat by known users. Do I have a problem with that? No, if I chose to I could also use. The risks are not worth the reward for the level I compete at. It is not the banned substances that are the problem. Designer drugs are manufactured to be undected by current drugs tests. A study by the Olympic anti doping committee found banned substances in the 1980s Olympic 100m sprinters samples kept on file. Should Jesse Owens have his title stripped off him or what about usain bolt when the test catch up to the drugs?

Lance was a legend, because he had cancer and became the best in the world. A child with cancer does not see what happens behind the scenes and neither should they, this matter could have been delt without the media sensation. He knows what he did.

fishfoodie

househero wrote: »

You are right Alfa, sport should be clean, I am often beat by known users. Do I have a problem with that? No, if I chose to I could also use. The risks are not worth the reward for the level I compete at. It is not the banned substances that are the problem. Designer drugs are manufactured to be undected by current drugs tests. A study by the Olympic anti doping committee found banned substances in the 1980s Olympic 100m sprinters samples kept on file. Should Jesse Owens have his title stripped off him or what about usain bolt when the test catch up to the drugs?

Lance was a legend, because he had cancer and became the best in the world. A child with cancer does not see what happens behind the scenes and neither should they, this matter could have been delt without the media sensation. He knows what he did.

And if the PEDs he took when he was a junior were what caused the Cancer, does that still make him a hero ?

Read the damn PDF before commenting. It's all there in black & white. If you wanted to be part of Team Armstrong, you did drugs, if you didn't, Lance cast you adrift & woe betide the Pro who didn't go with Lances big plan !

alfalad

No

househero wrote: »

You are right Alfa, sport should be clean, I am often beat by known users. Do I have a problem with that? No, if I chose to I could also use. The risks are not worth the reward for the level I compete at. It is not the banned substances that are the problem. Designer drugs are manufactured to be undected by current drugs tests. A study by the Olympic anti doping committee found banned substances in the 1980s Olympic 100m sprinters samples kept on file. Should Jesse Owens have his title stripped off him or what about usain bolt when the test catch up to the drugs?

Lance was a legend, because he had cancer and became the best in the world. A child with cancer does not see what happens behind the scenes and neither should they, this matter could have been delt without the media sensation. He knows what he did.

To my mind yes if samples are retested within the set time frame and found to have substances that were banned at the time (new substances are being added to the list on a regular basis) then yes they should be stripped of titles. But my biggest issue here is Lance used the charity as a cover and protector, felt it made him untouchable and anyone who crossed him or tried to tell the truth he tried to ruin them. Lance could have dealt with this behind the scenes a long long time ago but he choose not to, so on that regard he is the master of his own downfall. I think he deserves everything he is getting now and then more.

Sundy

No

househero wrote: »

Should Jesse Owens have his title stripped off him or what about usain bolt when the test catch up to the drugs?

.

If they cheated, yes of course their titles should be stripped. I'm not sure why time changes the fact that Lance cheated.