'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

ratracer

RobFowl wrote: »

Allegation floating around (L'equipe among others) that Frank was deliberately spiked by a certain Belgain ex manager to stop him jumping ship......
(Similar allegations that the same was done to AC)
Twittersphere abuzz with this and who is ultimately behind it....


Edit heres a link to back up the above...
http://www.wort.lu/en/view/french-newspaper-raises-doping-allegations-against-bruyneel-50780057e4b0069dd6579285?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

and here
http://thegaviafiles.tumblr.com/post/33378795535/the-bertagnolli-testimony-a-look-into-ferraris-world
https://twitter.com/dimspace

I hadn't heard of that, and before this week I don't think I would have believed a word of it. I did think it strange of Frank Schleck getting caught but then thought it was just cycling. Shocking if he was unknowingly spiked by his own team manager. The pro-levels really are f**ked up!!

kumate_champ07

how would a new world cycling organisation become recognised by the IOC, WADA and other relevant sport governing bodies?

kumate_champ07

it would be great to start fresh. no stupid rules either about saddle tilt angle or same weight limit for a road bike as a track bike.

maybe have NJS style equipment rules for kids racing, or a separate euro/world track cycling championships with everyone using the same frame and wheels

MPFG

No

I don't believe Frank Schleck was spiked by Johan Bruyneel .....there would be no advantage to this plus Johan Bruyneel has lost riders before and did not stoop to this level when they left

I always think the Shlecks are a tricky pair...in as much as they are the boss a d no one else and they left Riis and took a lot of his staff while pretending publicly that they were staying…a bit underhand to say the least….

hardCopy

No

dastardly00 wrote: »

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Stokes is reporting that Bruyneel has been fired

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13051/Report-Johan-Bruyneel-loses-general-manager-role-with-RadioShack-Nissan.aspx

It's now confirmed.

“Acting in mutual agreement, on October 12 Leopard SA and Johan Bruyneel decided to end their collaboration. From this day on, Johan Bruyneel will no longer act in the position of General Manager of cycling team Radioshack Nissan Trek”.

“The Reasoned Decision published by the USADA included a number of testimonies as a result of their investigation. In light of these testimonies, both parties feel it is necessary to make this decision since Johan Bruyneel can no longer direct the team in an efficient and comfortable way. His departure is desirable to ensure the serenity and cohesiveness within the team.”

Best news I've heard since the USADA announcement.

rednik

No

Monday night on radio 5 live.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ngqxd

GT_TDI_150

No

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

If it was made into a jersey it could be v popular

Undercover Elephant wrote: »

steve9859 wrote: »

Reading the papers today, including the detail of what Armstrong said under oath, and the chances of a perjury case against him, I'm starting to think that there's a chance that he could find himself in serious trouble. Marion Jones got 6 months in jail, and she admitted her guilt and her false claims under oath. If Lance is charged, he faces a dilemma....come clean and minimise jail time, or maintain the 'I never failed a drugs test' defence, contest a perjury suit, and potentially face some really serious jail time.

It still is probably a long shot, and I suspect the case will die down if the UCI does the right thing, strips him of his titles and consigns the whole thing to the past. But it's no longer as long a shot as it would have seemed this time last week!

I doubt it will happen. If the federal prosecutor thinks he doesn't have enough evidence to get a conviction for doping-related offences (read: convince ten members of a US jury to a standard of "beyond reasonable doubt"), then he doesn't have enough evidence to prove Armstrong was lying about it. It's basically the same stuff.

Bit like the michael jackson trial, too famous/loved for the janks to convict LA of anything

RobFowl wrote: »

Bruyneel (and his management company) have been fired by RSNT

Good riddance, may he never darken the door of any sport again..

I actually do believe he (in the case of schlek) and he and LA (in the case of contador) set up riders ... In both cases the samples were sent to the one lab in europe that was set up to test for their respective offending substance ... Makes you wonder.


Again as a belgian it pains me to say it but JB was as big a cancer to cycling as LA'

Super Freak

Sean Kelly comments reported on sticky bottle.........

Supportive of Pat Mc Quaid

MPFG

No

I am reminded of Simeoni and Armstrong issue back in 2004
I think the UCi should be prosecuted over allowing this to happen during the TdF

They bought the whole Armstrong can do no wrong propoganda and ran with it

Armstrong is an incredible individual .....single minded, ruthless, arrogant, controling, charismatic with no self awareness - he would have made a great dictator

drogdub

No

Tomorrow I am going to go cycling with my kids, my own private way of demonstrating that cycling the sport and activity does not belong to the trolls

greenspurs

No

a bit rich from Kelly considering his "incident" ?
Its a great day for cycling that all these American cheats were caught, but they should get 10 year ban (thus retiring them) instead of a few months.....

Waitsian

No

greenspurs wrote: »

a bit rich from Kelly considering his "incident" ?
Its a great day for cycling that all these American cheats were caught, but they should get 10 year ban (thus retiring them) instead of a few months.....

What has nationality got to do with it?

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

No

Having now read the majority of the 200 page document i can safely say that LA is the lowest of the low, an utter scumbag who deserves everything thrown at him. Lets hope this is the turning corner for pro cycling, i remain optimistic for the future especially with the likes of JB being removed from the sport.

greenspurs

No

its to do with their "holier than thou" attitude to most things.... It must hurt them to have so many of their own outed as cheats ...
WOW .. yee picked up on "american", but ignored the Kelly comment !?

manwithaplan

No

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

it would be great to start fresh. no stupid rules either about saddle tilt angle or same weight limit for a road bike as a track bike.

maybe have NJS style equipment rules for kids racing, or a separate euro/world track cycling championships with everyone using the same frame and wheels

I think you may be missing the point.

BryanL

greenspurs wrote: »

its to do with their "holier than thou" attitude to most things.... It must hurt them to have so many of their own outed as cheats ...
WOW .. yee picked up on "american", but ignored the Kelly comment !?

In fairness though it was an American organisation that took Armstrong down and mostly American riders that implicated themselves and him. I think it's the first time in the history of cycling and maybe all sport that competitors have admitted to Doping without being caught?
The 6 month ban is a bit hard to stomach but open and frank disclosure from riders should be encouraged at this stage.

Some like Hammond,Sean Yates and Cummings are still observing the Omertà?

Kelly supports McQuaids efforts against doping I'd like to hear his opinion on McQuadi suing Kimmage.

Quigs Snr

After reading Hamilton's book and then all the info on the USADA site....I tell you what, its clear what happened in the past... it was always clear, just never thought it would be confirmed so comprehensively.

The worst part for me though is those photo's of Armstrongs handyman / drugs mule posing for 2 photos with Sean Yates in his Sky gear. They are pretty damn depressing. But hardly surprising for anyone with eyes, a brain and a DVD of the 2012 tour (nevermind Sky's far from consistent, contradictory and extraordinarily dubious hiring practices of both riders and staff, nevermind key riders changes in levels of outspokenness in relation to doping .... the level of unsolicited doping complaining - even in slamdunk cases - markedly decreasing as results and performance levels increase).

Cleaner than ever my backside. Its 2004 all over again. Theres a long way to go before all the trash is taken out. Fingers crossed a critical mass of momentum is achieved and they don't stop at US Postal. But that will require the UCI to finish what the USADA started.... over to you Mr McQuaid. Sean Kelly wants to taint his legacy further by jumping in your corner. I would be delighted if he was right. We all would. A lot of people calling for McQuaids head. I'd be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see his reaction to this. McQuaid can save his reputation and become a hero for cycling (or at least the sporting side of it.....this will not necessarily be good for business in the shorter term), Verbruggen on the other hand should be hung by the neck from the flagpole of the UCI headquarters in Switzerland... or if thats too extreme then banned for life just like Armstrong.

Harrybelafonte

This one is for all those who ticked the "He's still great" box in the poll:

Simeoni's response

Diarmuid

No

Quigs Snr wrote: »

. I'd be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt until we see his reaction to this. McQuaid can save his reputation and become a hero for cycling

McQuaid has had chance after chance to do the right thing. He hasn't. Giving him another chance is pointless. He *has* to go.

Bunnyhopper

Irish aide to Armstrong helped teams avoid drug search

AN IRISH woman who worked for disgraced US cyclist Lance Armstrong claims she persuaded Customs officers not to search team cars for drugs as they arrived in Dublin for the start of the 1998 Tour de France.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1013/1224325226971.html

Strikes me as quite a one-sided article on Emma O'Reilly. No mention of her brave honesty in speaking to Walsh or of the scurrilous attacks from LA that she had to put up with. It's unfortunate to see her attacked like this.

This, by the same reporter (Conor Lally), does at least mention the Armstrong attacks on her:

O'Reilly aware of Armstrong drug-taking

IRISH WOMAN Emma O’Reilly has revealed that while she was aware of the system of drug taking within Lance Armstrong’s US Postal Services cycling team she distanced herself from it before her association with the American and his manager ended acrimoniously in 2000.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1013/1224325225077.html

MPFG

No

T-K-O wrote: »

I like Nico but his articles always read like ...poor me.

I kinda know what you mean ....sounds like noting goes right and there are excuses.....

But on the otherhand he is expressing how difficult it is to win and/or stay high up GC...he s being totally honest esp for those who do not know/care about cycling...and are attracted to the suffering

I think Nico is abit of a late starter to be honest...he has the talent no doubt but maybe hasn't had the dedication, preparation, team , training, luck etc all come together yet ...Some have been there but not others and visas versa

I think maybe he has suffered from 'fear of failure' but I think his self belief is getting there.....

Stage 18 of the tour this year when Cavendish beat him at the end and the two stages that Gilbert won in the Vuelta are really his kind of races....with a bit more help, planning and strenght...(and maybe without Gilbert !)

He is very talented at handing a bike on these kind of technical winding roads with uphill finishes....maybe at Saxo he will get support for these stages/races

Also because he is good on all fronts he has become abit of a jack of all trades....maybe Riis wil help him concentrate on one thing.
The amount of mental energy he seems to expend on several fronts is enormous

Beasty

No

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1013/1224325226971.html

Strikes me as quite a one-sided article on Emma O'Reilly. No mention of her brave honesty in speaking to Walsh or of the scurrilous attacks from LA that she had to put up with. It's unfortunate to see her attacked like this.

This, by the same reporter (Conor Lally), does at least mention the Armstrong attacks on her:



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1013/1224325225077.html

I don't see it as one-sided at all. They are simply reporting on the evidence she has provided. It's not for the Irish Times to defend her actions in any way. She was clearly part of the problem in that she was prepared to work in this environment and help in the efforts to avoid detection. Does that make her any better than others involved in the team? Obviously some would be seen as "drivers" behind the doping - there is clearly no suggestion she falls into this category, but by her own admission she is in effect a facilitator, actively assisting in the covering up of doping

Her (subsequent) revelations in connection with LA is a different aspect of the story, as is the bullying tactics involved. Bottom line is that at the time she was prepared to go along with it all.

morana

No

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/1013/1224325226971.html

Strikes me as quite a one-sided article on Emma O'Reilly. No mention of her brave honesty in speaking to Walsh or of the scurrilous attacks from LA that she had to put up with. It's unfortunate to see her attacked like this.

This, by the same reporter (Conor Lally), does at least mention the Armstrong attacks on her:



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1013/1224325225077.html

ffs Emma!

I have to repeat what I said earlier my faith in pro cycling is almost non existent. I have to agree with Quigs you cant believe anyone or anything. I am sorry brailsford and wiggo my starting point is prove youre clean?

Morrisseeee

No

Real shame the way Simeoni (& others) were treated, and the way the UCI just stood back & supported Lance.

US-Postal Tour de France squads 1999-2006

What I find so bizare is that when guys left US EPOstal they were immediately caught for doping !! So..............why weren't they caught when riding with US EPOstal ??!! (stinks to the high heavens and doesn't bode well for the governing body of cycling...............UCI) :(:mad:

TheBlaaMan

No

Just re-watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI from the 2009 ToC

Its an interesting 'rogues gallery' at the table with Armstrong (Hincapie, Leipheimer, Basso, CVV, ) but TBH, none of them are looking particularly comfortable as Armstrong wades into Kimmage..........now we can be sure of why this is.

MPFG

No

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Just re-watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI from the 2009 ToC

Its an interesting 'rogues gallery' at the table with Armstrong (Hincapie, Leipheimer, Basso, CVV, ) but TBH, none of them are looking particularly comfortable as Armstrong wades into Kimmage..........now we can be sure of why this is.

The front row of that conference all look like they are in some sort of trance...all (except LA) have unfocused and dead stare eyes....they must have been in denial big time ...Big geroge can't seem to look up and CVV seems also very uncomfortable....it has all the hallmarks of a cult with the dominant leader...like the eyes of the C Mason followers

One thing that strikes me about this whole thing is for such a small country Ireland seems to have a disproportionate number of the main protagonists
Pat McQuaid
Paul Kimmage
Emma O'Reilly
With Sean Kelly and Nico Roche jumping right in

Say what will about the Irish but we love being at the heart of a good conspiracy

hardCopy

No

MPFG wrote: »

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Just re-watched this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZgns7CXeUI from the 2009 ToC

Its an interesting 'rogues gallery' at the table with Armstrong (Hincapie, Leipheimer, Basso, CVV, ) but TBH, none of them are looking particularly comfortable as Armstrong wades into Kimmage..........now we can be sure of why this is.

The front row of that conference all look like they are in some sort of trance...all (except LA) have unfocused and dead stare eyes....they must have been in denial big time ...Big geroge can't seem to look up and CVV seems also very uncomfortable....it has all the hallmarks of a cult with the dominant leader...like the eyes of the C Mason followers

One thing that strikes me about this whole thing is for such a small country Ireland seems to have a disporportinate number of the main protagonists
Pat McQuaid
Paul Kimmage
Emma O'Reilly
With Sean Kelly and Nico Roche jumping right in

Say what will about the Irish but we love being at the heart of a good conspiracy

Don't forget Ferrari and Conconi's time working with Signor Rocci

ThisRegard

No

MPFG wrote: »

With Sean Kelly and Nico Roche jumping right in

Say what will about the Irish but we love being at the heart of a good conspiracy

They hardly jumped in. RTE wanted an Irish angle on the story so they got a former and current racer, we hardly have a big pool of either, to comment.

They were hardly jumping up with their hands raised shouting ' me me, I wanna say something'.

Morrisseeee

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

They hardly jumped in. RTE wanted an Irish angle on the story so they got a former and current racer, we hardly have a big pool of either, to comment.

They were hardly jumping up with their hands raised shouting ' me me, I wanna day something'.

MPFG's point is well made tho, Irish people have had a 'big' say in the rise & fall of Lance.

/insert funny pic

MPFG

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

They hardly jumped in. RTE wanted an Irish angle on the story so they got a former and current racer, we hardly have a big pool of either, to comment.

They were hardly jumping up with their hands raised shouting ' me me, I wanna day something'.

I refering Roche's article in the Indo which I presume was voluntary
And also many top internatonal riders have not gone on record......I presume were asked their opinions