'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

ThisRegard

No

Still waiting for the funny pic to be posted ! ;-)

happytramp

No

MPFG wrote: »

One thing that strikes me about this whole thing is for such a small country Ireland seems to have a disproportionate number of the main protagonists
Pat McQuaid
Paul Kimmage
Emma O'Reilly
With Sean Kelly and Nico Roche jumping right in

Lets not forget David Walsh, surely one of the key players here.

MPFG

No

happytramp wrote: »

Lets not forget David Walsh, surely one of the key players here.

Yes David Walsh is a fine journalist.....Standing against the machine takes guts

Bravo (chapeau) to Walsh and Kimmage.........the opposite to McQuiad

corny

No

Matt White steps down from Orica GreenEdge after doping confession

MPFG

No

Morrisseeee wrote: »

MPFG's point is well made tho, Irish people have had a 'big' say in the rise & fall of Lance.

Maybe we should now turn our attention to corruption at the heart of theChinese Communist Party...But I don't think they have anything on Lance though!

Or how's about those Quinn women on primetime..I have lived in london forsome years and was unaware of all that Quinn saga and just caught it on primetime on RTE player as I waited for the cycling segment.....They really take the biscuit...orshould I say the cake ! ....the $100.000 euro cake, never heard the like...mental !

As for Orica Green edge ...There won't be a team not affected by thisscandal

Maybe need a truth and reconciliation commitee for cycling to help start again...Maybe Bishop Tutu is free to lead

Must get out and get some fresh air now.....

Finnrocco

No

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Real shame the way Simeoni (& others) were treated, and the way the UCI just stood back & supported Lance.

US-Postal Tour de France squads 1999-2006

What I find so bizare is that when guys left US EPOstal they were immediately caught for doping !! So..............why weren't they caught when riding with US EPOstal ??!! (stinks to the high heavens and doesn't bode well for the governing body of cycling...............UCI) :(:mad:

The fact that guys were caught when they moved squad proved that either Postal were protected or the doping regimes at other teams weren't as sophisticated ( or the guys were doing it on their own and didn't have the network around them to evade it).

brandon_flowers

No

Finnrocco wrote: »

The fact that guys were caught when they moved squad proved that either Postal were protected or the doping regimes at other teams weren't as sophisticated ( or the guys were doing it on their own and didn't have the network around them to evade it).

Or that Lance didn't want any of them to be successful, he had already fallen out with Hamilton and Lands before they were caught/grassed.

Finnrocco

No

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Or that Lance didn't want any of them to be successful, he had already fallen out with Hamilton and Lands before they were caught/grassed.

Possible, especially as Hamilton claimed that Armstrong told the UCI to warn him. ( after beating LA in I think Dauphine TT).

Of course, I remember Armstrong saying that when the ex teammates became leaders at other teams, they felt they had to take drugs to live up to their new higher pressured roles as leaders.


http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/full-transcript-of-nicolas-roches-interview-on-doping-on-rtes-prime-time/

Link to Nico Roches interview.

dave2pvd

No

Kelly and Roche jnr don't even show on the radar when it comes to the fall of Postal/Armstrong. This is an international event, not just an Irish one.

Here's my version of the 'Irish List':

Pat McQuaid
Paul Kimmage
Emma O'Reilly
David Walsh

Shane Stokes is also putting up some well constructed and incisive pieces at the moment.

el tel

No

Is my memory playing tricks on me or was there something a few years ago where the pro riders signed up to a program whereby they would have to pay back their wages if they were caught doping?

Was this just a proposal or was this put into practice? Or am I just losing the plot?

wonderfullife

No

In general terms i hate invoking nationality but i tend to agree with the guy further above who said the Americans have a holier-than-thou attitude. Good to see USADA don't fit that bill. Prime example this summer when the 15 year old Chinese girl won gold in the swimming shaving 8 seconds off her p.b., US Swim Coach accused her of doping. Few days later an American 15 year old Katie Ledecky wins gold shaving a full 30 seconds off her best time in the space of 8 months, and she's apparently just naturally developing and talented.

brandon_flowers

No

It is hilarious they have that attitude because American sports are the dirtiest of all. Baseball and NFL are particularly filthy, the bigger the money the bigger the cheating.

letape

No

Matt White has stepped down from his position at Orica GreenEdge and Australian cycling, and has admitted to his role and involvement in doping at US Postal.

Details in cyclingnews

dave2pvd

No

wonderfullife wrote: »

In general terms i hate invoking nationality but i tend to agree with the guy further above who said the Americans have a holier-than-thou attitude. Good to see USADA don't fit that bill. Prime example this summer when the 15 year old Chinese girl won gold in the swimming shaving 8 seconds off her p.b., US Swim Coach accused her of doping. Few days later an American 15 year old Katie Ledecky wins gold shaving a full 30 seconds off her best time in the space of 8 months, and she's apparently just naturally developing and talented.

I'm going to jump to the defense of the Americans: in general, they don't have a holier than thou attitude. Well, except when it comes to the French.

I do see a need for hero worship in the US. Then again, I'm not so sure about Irish people being any different when it comes to heroes.

morana

No

When will Yates step down?

ROK ON

No

dave2pvd wrote: »

I'm going to jump to the defense of the Americans: in general, they don't have a holier than thou attitude. Well, except when it comes to the French.

I do see a need for hero worship in the US. Then again, I'm not so sure about Irish people being any different when it comes to heroes.

Agree - it is relatively easy to claim moral superiority over another culture, but very difficult to find any actual evidence of any culture being morally superior.

In this particular case, I think that cycling (and maybe sport in general) owes a debt of gratitude to some brave individuals who simply happen to be American - people like the Andreu's, Lemond, Vaughters and laterly Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton among many others.

Of current pro's I think the Nico Roches column should be published in across all cycling media. I must also mention that Cancellara impressed me but I was very surprised by his statements (I always assumed that he was one of them).
Have heard nothing from Contador, Gilbert or Boonen - all gone very quiet.

MPFG

No

dave2pvd wrote: »

Kelly and Roche jnr don't even show on the radar when it comes to the fall of Postal/Armstrong. This is an international event, not just an Irish one.

Here's my version of the 'Irish List':

Pat McQuaid
Paul Kimmage
Emma O'Reilly
David Walsh !

Shane Stokes is also putting up some well constructed and incisive pieces at the moment.

I didn't say it was an Irish issue and not an international issue.. I said the Irish semed disproportionally involved given the size of the country ...an observation rather than bestowing of garlands on a nation ...the Irish are not above corruption afterall ....

As for holier than thou.... David Millar gets right on my wick

RobFowl

No

morana wrote: »

When will Yates step down?

When Brailsford accepts his resignation with shock and disappointment at the news he doped (the failed test in the past didn't give it away). (Riding with LA for 5 years and acting as a DS for 2 didn't make him even the slightist bit curious either....).


Time for an amnesty (for those who admit to everything!!) and some sort of truth and reconcilliation process.

el tel

No

It's Festina Mk.2

I think Nothing will change, ultimately.

There'll be a bit of revulsion, claims that the sport has been cleaned up and things will gradually revert to type. If there's a way to beat the system someone will find it and exploit it. Then the majority will do the same.
Then another false dawn.

There needs to be criminal sanctions and lifetime bans.

kumate_champ07

el tel wrote: »

It's Festina Mk.2

I think Nothing will change, ultimately.

There'll be a bit of revulsion, claims that the sport has been cleaned up and things will gradually revert to type. If there's a way to beat the system someone will find it and exploit it. Then the majority will do the same.
Then another false dawn.

There needs to be criminal sanctions and lifetime bans.

true, but if the system has anti virus software installed and the user clicks ignore when a virus alert pops up, then the system owner needs to be replaced

GT_TDI_150

No

<snip>

Beasty

No

Next one to speculate about riders or teams doping will be sanctioned

Thanks

Beasty

morana

No

being over at usantidoping.org trying to swat up on the facts. Theres a lot of stuff over there its a slam dunk to get into the spirit of things. Some good pictures of Sean Yates and Lance with Mr Marie aka motoman.

this will be a movie. the script is there. But isnt great to be able to say "Lance Armstrong is a doper!" with Beasty being able to take his snipper out!

Beasty

No

morana wrote: »

this will be a movie. the script is there. But isnt great to be able to say "Lance Armstrong is a doper!" with Beasty being able to take his snipper out!

I tell you, I was paranoid at the Track Masters this week at the prospect of being chosen for a random drugs test. Wouldn't touch any painkillers for a week, just in case I ended up in the hall of shame, right next to Lance in the alphabetic list ....

mitosis

No

There will be no new dawn. It is great USP and LA are exposed to the light, but there's a new USP out there now and the doping continues ahead of the testing. The allegations have been made but we have to remain silent.

Do the UK have an equivalent of the USADA?

Beasty

No

mitosis wrote: »

Do the UK have an equivalent of the USADA?

Don't know to what extent it's directly comparable, but there's UK Anti-Doping

morana

No

you know I think I have had a kimmage conversion! Like when Saul was on the road to Damascus and got struck down?
I have been struck down by the extent of the testimonies in this case. Sky are 1000% clean? Why dont they allow Kimmage to go on tour with them...fine, then they hire Geert Leinders with a doping past....not fine, then Ds Seans yates good chums with the MM eh really not fine.


its laughable I used to argue that it wasnt about genetics in that the Irish woman and man were the same as the belgie or dutch then how did we not have the same number of pro's? has to be down to the coaching...my bollox it was down to the drugs.

el tel

No

Has anything been heard of Phil Liggett recently?

Or is it a case of



ZZzzzzzzzzziiiiiiip?

Cienciano

No

el tel wrote: »

Has anything been heard of Phil Liggett recently?

Or is it a case of



ZZzzzzzzzzziiiiiiip?

Was just about to post the same thing. Didn't he say he'd retire if Lance doped?

Just went to twitter and saw this. The US olympic training center has quotes from athletes all over it's walls. Lances is being painted over!

http://thecyclingkit.tumblr.com/post/30135172569/current-picture-from-the-us-olympic-training

Here's a reminder of Liggett saying he'd retire
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/liggett-on-armstrong-the-whole-investigation-was-a-waste-of-money

“He told me in a private situation, when I wasn’t working as a journalist. I was sat in the bedroom some years ago, and I asked him point blank, ‘look Lance, the way I talked you up on television, I would have to back off and resign if you one day went positive’. And he looked at me and he said ‘man I’ve seen death in the face and I don’t take drugs.’ And that’s all he said. I have no reason to disbelieve him.

MPFG

No

Interesting article...seems alot of people need to come clean

Named the 'Irish List' as particularly crucial to the whole episode

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/others/cycling-former-editor--it-was-a-coverup--and-i-was-part-of-it-8209762.html