'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

petethedrummer

No

morana wrote: »

No to divert the thread but dont you find it worrying that in rugby where bulk and strength seem to be fundamentals for success that only a handful have been caught. A lad in england, a kenyan in one of the world cups, our lad for salbutamol. Maybe there is stacks of others but we just havent heard of them.

A few rugybyists in this list.
http://www.ukad.org.uk/anti-doping-rule-violations/current-violations/

Comparison of OOC testing rates.
tennishasasteroidproblem.blogspot.ie/2012/01/epic-fail-out-of-competition-testing-in.html

on_the_nickel

No

Just watched this doc, from Aussie tv this past weekend, suggest you all do too.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

jinkypolly

No

on_the_nickel wrote: »

Just watched this doc, from Aussie tv this past weekend, suggest you all do too.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

Was just about to post that, provides a good summation of the sorry saga.

ThisRegard

No

Interesting letter in todays Indo, coincidental author and location.

So, the great Lance Armstrong has been cited as a 'doper'. Not only that, but his colleagues and managers at Team US Postal were drawn into this scandal.

Bearing in mind that US Postal began life as The Pony Express, I am reminded of a line by John Wayne in a western, "only dopes ride for the pony express". After all these years, he has been proven correct.

Sean Kelly
Tramore, Co Waterford

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/ride-on-3258901.html.

hardCopy

No

morana wrote: »

hardCopy wrote: »

There's been a few bits about the UCI's dope testing that have been really shocking, firstly the fact that riders were allowed one hour unsupervised after an event, add in the fact that when testers visited the team hotel they arrived in branded cars wearing official jackets. It's madness.

I know a former IRB (rugby) dope tester. The testers used to pick a player from each team at random and meet those players at the sideline at fulltime, the players were then kept separate from their team and staff and supervised in a designated room until they peed. That was back in 1998.

The idea that testing protocols were stricter in rugby at that time than cycling, a sport with such a history of drug abuse is bizarre. It looks more like willful negligence than incompetence.

No to divert the thread but dont you find it worrying that in rugby where bulk and strength seem to be fundamentals for success that only a handful have been caught. A lad in england, a kenyan in one of the world cups, our lad for salbutamol. Maybe there is stacks of others but we just havent heard of them.

I certainly wouldn't hold rugby up as an example, my own hunch is that we'll see some scandals involving HGH in the future.

My point was that rugby was only professional for three years at that stage and already had better protocols in place than the Tour.

Lusk Doyle

No

More horsesh!t from current pros:

The 27-year-old added that he thought stirring up cycling's past was not a useful way to clean the slate. "What's the use, really, that someone like Frankie Andreu - whom I refer to at random - tells the truth today about something he did 12 years ago, or more? So, should we go even further, find witnesses to talk about Charly Gaul's era, to hold them accountable?," he asked.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/andy-schleck-cycling-needs-to-focus-on-the-future

By that "logic", nobody should ever be tried for war crimes :mad:

I'm really beginning to not like pro cyclists now.

petethedrummer

No

Bassons:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/13/christophe-bassons-not-bitter-lance-armstrong

wonderfullife

No

on_the_nickel wrote: »

Just watched this doc, from Aussie tv this past weekend, suggest you all do too.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

thanks so much, brilliant watch!!

Had to laugh at the presenter at the very end, maybe it's just the Aussie way, but when he said:

"and Lance is still protesting....all the way out the back door!"

Laughed my head off

Zascar

No

on_the_nickel wrote: »

Just watched this doc, from Aussie tv this past weekend, suggest you all do too.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

The video won't play for me - giving an error - anyone got another link?

wonderfullife

No

Zascar wrote: »

The video won't play for me - giving an error - anyone got another link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q03sc8Aoyk0

here ya go buddy. great watch.

wonderfullife

No

I actually feel sorry for Ligget after watching it. You could tell he's hurt by the whole thing and feels betrayed. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on his cycling knowledge/nouse, but at the end of the day he's almost 70 years old and he was looked in the eye by Armstrong and conned like he conned the rest of the world.

It's truly an awful thing on any level, sports or otherwise, to put your trust and faith in a fellow human and to be let down so badly.

Cienciano

No

on_the_nickel wrote: »

Just watched this doc, from Aussie tv this past weekend, suggest you all do too.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

Phil Liggett finally speaks!

PHIL LIGGETT: I, look, I admit I've, I've been very proud to commentate on Armstrong over these, over these years because I've seen a man and I've seen how he's battled the elements and I've seen how he's come forward, and I'm very sad. What do I think? Everybody else did it, so I find it very difficult not to think that Lance did it

It'll take a while before it sinks in fully for Phil.

mcgratheoin

No

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/despite-usadas-evidence-liggett-remains-armstrongs-supporter

Depressing...

MPFG

No

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M50e3e3irxg

morana

No

Its always the same with procyclists "lets get on with it, this was in the past and focus on the future" The problem is the future soon becomes the past and its usually riddled with drugs. I bet the same was being said after festina!

They dont really deserve our adulation tbh.

wonderfullife

No

mcgratheoin wrote: »

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/despite-usadas-evidence-liggett-remains-armstrongs-supporter

Depressing...

jaysus . i take back my comment above. fool.

brandon_flowers

No

Liggett is like a man who had stood by a good friend for years only to find out that the good friend was shagging his missus all them years.

edit: Just saw mcgratheoin's link... Liggett still being a fanboy is pretty depressing

ThisRegard

No

had an email from an eminent scientist from the US yesterday. An SMS actually. It said if Lance Armstrong had taken the drugs outlined by USADA he’d have been dead ten years ago. He’s an eminent scientist and a very intelligent man. I don’t know his name, the SMS came from a secondary person.”

I got an email, no wait, an SMS, from a very intelligent and eminent scientist. Who is he, I don't know, never heard of him, but he's eminently intelligent.

MPFG

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I got an email, no wait, and SMS, from a very intelligent and eminent scientist. Who is he, I don't know, never heard of him, but he's eminently intelligent.

Maybe Armstrong is dead...he looks dead....and maybe he is just now a UCI/Livestrong/Nike /Bruneeyl Frankenstein monster....Now that would be an even bigger con!

corny

No

morana wrote: »

Its always the same with procyclists "lets get on with it, this was in the past and focus on the future" The problem is the future soon becomes the past and its usually riddled with drugs.

But the problem really is none of them care or at least they care more about their pockets. It doesn't pay to create ripples and if you were earning a good living why would you rock the boat?

The one constant you get from the current pros is 'we're moving forward now'. Actually what they're really saying is stop talking about this because it could harm my future earning potential.

From top to bottom they are all compromised so sanity will have to be forced upon them. I'm afraid thats not going to happen and by the time San Remo or Roubaix roll around next year things will have settled down; actually the positive spin might be winning by then!

The more things change the more they stay the same (A proverb making the observation that turbulent changes do not affect reality on a deeper level other than to cement the status quo).

wonderfullife

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I got an email, no wait, and SMS, from a very intelligent and eminent scientist. Who is he, I don't know, never heard of him, but he's eminently intelligent.

lol. also this line of "anecdotal science" is rubbish. I'm pretty sure i could find an emminently intelligent doctor to tell me Charlie Sheen should be long dead from the amount of coke he went through!!!

skerry

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I got an email, no wait, and SMS, from a very intelligent and eminent scientist. Who is he, I don't know, never heard of him, but he's eminently intelligent.

How is it that Ligget always seems to make contact with a 'expert in the area' the day before the interview. Surely he knows people reading this think its complete bull****.

Don't know if it was posted here already but there's a funny interview with one of LA's lawyers on the BBC link below. He's asked about if Armstrong would take a lie detector test and after nervously mumbling a few maybe's he pretty much cuts the interview and runs.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/19941030

mcgratheoin

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I got an email, no wait, an SMS, from a very intelligent and eminent scientist. Who is he, I don't know, never heard of him, but he's eminently intelligent.

"and I didn't actually get an email or SMS from him, somebody else just texted me with some tripe that he heard"

The irony of it is, that amidst all the posturing and deflection by Lance's fanboys - this is the first time that anyone has genuinely relied on HEARSAY as evidence.... :D

petethedrummer

No

wonderfullife wrote: »

I actually feel sorry for Ligget after watching it. You could tell he's hurt by the whole thing and feels betrayed. Everyone is entitled to their opinions on his cycling knowledge/nouse, but at the end of the day he's almost 70 years old and he was looked in the eye by Armstrong and conned like he conned the rest of the world.

He's a cheerleading gravy train riding idiot*. This doping has been obvious for years and he is immersed in the cycling world. He bloody commentates on it for hours every day of his working life!!!


*Actually idiot is wrong. He knows the score. He's not stupid. He is being deceitful.

Flandria

No

Phil is confused - it was actually a telex that he got. Or a telegram.

Guybrush T

No

petethedrummer wrote: »

He's a cheerleading gravy train riding idiot*. This doping has been obvious for years and he is immersed in the cycling world. He bloody commentates on it for hours every day of his working life!!!


*Actually idiot is wrong. He knows the score. He's not stupid. He is being deceitful.

That doesn't make sense, if he was aware that Lance was doping, and he wasn't an idiot then he would have had a lifejacket handy for when the SS Armstrong started to sink.

I can only see two plausible scenarios:
1. He fell for LA hook, line and sinker, believed the legend and is still unable to face the truth. To me this is the most likely, but still means he's a bit of an idiot.
2. He knew (or at least strongly suspected) Lance was doping, but kept the faith for purely mercenary reasons. If this is the case then he is definitely an idiot for not switching horses earlier this year when it was clear Lance was toast.

Whichever way you look at it Phil is not the smartest commentator out there.

Cienciano

No

Guybrush T wrote: »

1. He fell for LA hook, line and sinker, believed the legend and is still unable to face the truth. To me this is the most likely, but still means he's a bit of an idiot.

That's the one that's most likely. Also add in that he didn't want to when evidance was coming out. He still is in denial

dastardly00

No

Just a reminder that BBC Radio 5 Live have a programme on tonight at 7pm called 'Peddlers - Cycling's Dirty Truth'.

Mark Chapman presents a special programme focusing on drugs in cycling through the Lance Armstrong era.
Hear from one of Armstrong's former team mates, Tyler Hamilton, as well as interviews with Dick Pound, the former head of WADA and Emma O'Reilly, Armstrong's former masseuse. Plus British cyclist David Millar who was banned for two years after admitting taking performance enhancing drugs and Christophe Basson, a French cyclist who was driven out of the sport by Armstrong and other riders after he spoke out against drugs.

Wibbs

No

Cienciano wrote: »

Phil Liggett finally speaks!



It'll take a while before it sinks in fully for Phil.

Maybe it's just me, but I feel sorry for Liggett. Met him years ago and he seemed a very nice man, happy to mix it up with fellow fans.

petethedrummer

No

Guybrush T wrote: »

1. He fell for LA hook, line and sinker, believed the legend and is still unable to face the truth. To me this is the most likely, but still means he's a bit of an idiot.

2. He knew (or at least strongly suspected) Lance was doping, but kept the faith for purely mercenary reasons. If this is the case then he is definitely an idiot for not switching horses earlier this year when it was clear Lance was toast.

I think it's 2 and he's trying to paint it as 1. Oh look at me simple old lovable Phil Liggett who believes when a man looks me in the eye and lies that it's the truth.

Yet lovable old Phil still goes on the attack when his man crush is under investigation. And has attacked anyone who questioned him over the years.

And why does he only believe Armstrong's version of the truth? Because that has paid his bills.