'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

Hermy

No

ckeego wrote: »

Tres superb! Would love to see a link if it is still there...

The link on the Wiki page is a long time gone but a quick google search should turn up something.

mcgratheoin

No

allybhoy wrote: »

Anyone got a link yet ? Missed this...

By the way for those interested I have a read online only link for translated LA Confidential in work, ill stick it up tomorrow if allowed by mods

I have a pdf copy of it in English, send a PM for details if anyone wants it (Mod approval pending)

Hermy

No

For me there wasn't much new information in that BBC programme [although I did miss the third half hour]. Also, that the programme focused mostly on the years when Armstrong was winning the Tour and not so much on cycling's more recent doping past was disappointing.

velo.2010

Link to 5 Live programme. Hit the speaker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ngqxd

dastardly00

No

Hermy wrote: »

For me there wasn't much new information in that BBC programme [although I did miss the third half hour]. Also, that the programme focused mostly on the years when Armstrong was winning the Tour and not so much on cycling's more recent doping past was disappointing.

It was good to actually hear the likes of Tyler Hamilton and Emma O'Reilly discuss doping etc. rather than just reading it in Reasoned Decision!

ROK ON

No

velo.2010 wrote: »

Link to 5 Live programme. Hit the speaker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ngqxd

Won't work on my iPhone - anyone know a way around this?

downwiththatsor

No

Good documentary here too
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

RobFowl

No

hardCopy wrote: »

I don't think rugby is the gold standard by any means and that was back in 98, just after it went professional. My point was that cycling should be at least as strict at a bare minimum.

I've never raced in a CI event, the comment about riders being left unsupervised came from my favorite anti-doping expert, Dick Pound.


http://www.telraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/9608064/International-Cycling-Union-turned-blind-eye-to-Lance-Armstrong-says-former-World-Anti-Doping-Agency-chief.html

The Dick Pound comment is taken a bit out of context in your post. He said tests were done in the morning and that left the riders free from after that until the stage start to potentially take something. It was a bit overly critical a comment IMO but even still did not state at all that riders were left unsupervised after they were selected for a dope test. No matter how bad the UCI were they weren't that daft.....

Beasty

No

allybhoy wrote: »

By the way for those interested I have a read online only link for translated LA Confidential in work, ill stick it up tomorrow if allowed by mods

No links to copyrighted material allowed

Thanks

Beasty

hardCopy

No

RobFowl wrote: »

The Dick Pound comment is taken a bit out of context in your post. He said tests were done in the morning and that left the riders free from after that until the stage start to potentially take something. It was a bit overly critical a comment IMO but even still did not state at all that riders were left unsupervised after they were selected for a dope test. No matter how bad the UCI were they weren't that daft.....

I don't think it is out of context, he says exactly that:

"The race starts at 1 pm to 2 pm in afternoon and there are no tests prior to race to see if they are bumped up," he said, adding that after races, competitors had an unchaperoned hour before being tested.

"So then you go in and get saline solutions and other means of hiding the effects (of performance-enhancing drug) EPO and whatever else it is," he said.

"You have to say 'I wonder if it was designed not to be successful?'"

RobFowl

No

hardCopy wrote: »

I don't think it is out of context, he says exactly that:

"The race starts at 1 pm to 2 pm in afternoon and there are no tests prior to race to see if they are bumped up," he said, adding that after races, competitors had an unchaperoned hour before being tested.

"So then you go in and get saline solutions and other means of hiding the effects (of performance-enhancing drug) EPO and whatever else it is," he said.

"You have to say 'I wonder if it was designed not to be successful?'"

Once selected for a test the riders were chaperoned. Dick Pounds complaint was that at the time the testers did not select the riders directly after the race but had up to an hour to be told. Once selected by the testers in person they were chaperoned.
Don't want to get into a nit picking contest but was a worked for the UCI in testing cyclists so am fairly sure of the rules. Believe me they were far ahead of rugby event back then...
Lots and lots of problems with the way th UCI did things but that particular criticism is neither fair nor accurate.

Run_to_da_hills

No

More on him here from Natural News.

Lance Armstrong nailed for doping; more than 1,000 pages of evidence for 'the most sophisticated doping program the sport has ever seen Millions of his fans didn't want to believe it. He himself repeatedly and vehemently denied it.

But apparently, if the (www.documentcloud.org) is accurate (and there's no reason to assume it's not), then it's true: Cycling "hero" and "legend" Lance Armstrong is nothing more than a cheat.

http://www.naturalnews.com/037546_Lance_Armstrong_doping_evidence.html#ixzz29PLS1qMC

furiousox

No

ROK ON wrote: »

Won't work on my iPhone - anyone know a way around this?

Available for download as an mp3 file here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials

Inquitus

No

ROK ON wrote: »

Won't work on my iPhone - anyone know a way around this?

Buy an Android phone

hardCopy

No

RobFowl wrote: »

Once selected for a test the riders were chaperoned. Dick Pounds complaint was that at the time the testers did not select the riders directly after the race but had up to an hour to be told. Once selected by the testers in person they were chaperoned.
Don't want to get into a nit picking contest but was a worked for the UCI in testing cyclists so am fairly sure of the rules. Believe me they were far ahead of rugby event back then...
Lots and lots of problems with the way th UCI did things but that particular criticism is neither fair nor accurate.

But what's the difference? If you're doped up and you have a free hour you'd surely hit the saline straight away as a precaution?

Like I said, I've never even raced, but it does seem like a fairly obvious flaw.

RobFowl

No

hardCopy wrote: »

But what's the difference? If you're doped up and you have a free hour you'd surely hit the saline straight away as a precaution?

Like I said, I've never even raced, but it does seem like a fairly obvious flaw.

The free hour is a misnomer.
Under the older system at the finish a list of those to be tested was posted at the finish. If the were not found or did not present themselves to the UCI inspectors within an hour, it went down as a missed test violation. Once the UCI inspector found them they were supervised until they completed the test.
It's is alleged and seems that riders knew testers were coming at times and had the facilities in place to manipulate the results.
All systems have flaws and to criticise those involved in such simplistic terms is unfair.
It's being presented as the tester telling x he needs to be tested then buggering off for an hour.....

hardCopy

No

RobFowl wrote: »

The free hour is a misnomer.
Under the older system at the finish a list of those to be tested was posted at the finish. If the were not found or did not present themselves to the UCI inspectors within an hour, it went down as a missed test violation. Once the UCI inspector found them they were supervised until they completed the test.
It's is alleged and seems that riders knew testers were coming at times and had the facilities in place to manipulate the results.
All systems have flaws and to criticise those involved in such simplistic terms is unfair.
It's being presented as the tester telling x he needs to be tested then buggering off for an hour.....

I wouldn't put the blame on individual testers, they're presumably just following protocols.

I haven't claimed that anyone was sent away for an hour but I can't understand how they could legitimately go missing for an hour if they cross the same finishing line as everyone else.

RobFowl

No

hardCopy wrote: »

I wouldn't put the blame on individual testers, they're presumably just following protocols.

I haven't claimed that anyone was sent away for an hour but I can't understand how they could legitimately go missing for an hour if they cross the same finishing line as everyone else.

Generally they can't but it used to be 2 testers looking for 4-5 cyclist at a finish (often 140+ cyclists crossing the line and various managers ,mechanics etc) quite a chaotic schene, To avoid people disappearing the race numbers were posted at the finish. If the testers could not find them the rider shad to present themselves to the testers otherwise they were sanctioned.
This time was needed to avoid a legal challange if a ban resulted.

In rugby the testers turned up at training grounds and were given a list of thos there (the club gave them this list) from this list they selected a few names then the testers wer escorted to a seperate room and after training the players were delivered to them.
Any player doping would simple have been told not to come in to training or disappear when testers arrived. In infamous case the coach said "now lads off to do your usual five k warm down jog (a fraction of the team returned ) and when you get back we'll pick the players for the dope control"....

Trojan

No

So David Millar reckons he can help clean cycling up by becoming UCI President... strange. I don't know enough about what he's like personally, my initial impression is that he's not the right person for the job (and neither is the UCI the right organisation for the job).

petethedrummer

No

Trojan wrote: »

So David Millar reckons he can help clean cycling up by becoming UCI President... strange. I don't know enough about what he's like personally, my initial impression is that he's not the right person for the job (and neither is the UCI the right organisation for the job).

Himself and McQuaid were singing off the same hymn sheet back when all this started.
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15175682

I particularly like this part... "He'd be in a decent mental state. He'd be sober. And he'd be married."

A classy statement from slithery ar5e Millar.

12 sprocket

Robbie Fowler is correct about the hour and in fact an irish rider was given a positive and banned in the tour of britain some years when the fact that he was on the testing list was missed at the finish and the team travelled to the hotel.

I think they were at the hotel before someone contacted the team to let them know that the riders name was on the list for testing.

He was brought back to the testers but as it was outside the hour window they wouldnt test him and he ended up with a ban.

GT_TDI_150

No

furiousox wrote: »

Available for download as an mp3 file here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/5lspecials

For fear of sounding like a div ... How do you download this? I get to the download button, press it and it plays directly frpm the site, so unless i have internet access i cant listen too it?!

On iphone 4s btw

furiousox

No

ROK ON wrote: »

Won't work on my iPhone - anyone know a way around this?

GT_TDI_150 wrote: »

For fear of sounding like a div ... How do you download this? I get to the download button, press it and it plays directly frpm the site, so unless i have internet access i cant listen too it?!

On iphone 4s btw

Right click on the link and 'save as'
Once you have it downloaded you can import it to itunes then transfer it to your iphone

morana

No

hardCopy wrote: »

I wouldn't put the blame on individual testers, they're presumably just following protocols.

I haven't claimed that anyone was sent away for an hour but I can't understand how they could legitimately go missing for an hour if they cross the same finishing line as everyone else.

I know its not your intention to say rugby does it better but I think the point for me is that in tennis which has a huge steroid problem theres no testing, in athletics drugs are rampant and none of the big names are caught in fact in Jamaica and Kenya the testing was almost non existent until recently. In football we had the epo scandal in Italy. Fuentes has claimed that he had Barca and Real or athletico players as clients, he had tennis players and formula 1 racing drivers if my information is correct but none of that is released but before the 06 tour we ban Ullrich and a load of others.

Cycling is doing the right thing there were/are flaws in the testing and it doesnt matter who you are.

morana

No

And just to say all of these ex-dopers can shove their advice up their arses as far as I am concernced. We are in this position because of you so **** off.

Lets have a clean guy say something and I will listen.

allybhoy

No

Beasty wrote: »

No links to copyrighted material allowed

Thanks

Beasty

No problem, i wont post it. It is on Scribd however, which i thought was an open source library.

mcgratheoin

No

Bookshop in Glasgow....

ThisRegard

No

Well one thing I've learned from the Five Live doc I never knew before is finally how to pronounce "soigneur".

superlav

No

Not sure if this documentry has been posted already

The World According to Lance
By Quentin McDermott and Clay Hichens

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/10/11/3608613.htm

broadcast yesterday on ABC

Hermy

No

superlav wrote: »

Not sure if this documentry has been posted already

That's a different script from Liggett - when did he get the re-write???:eek: