'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

damoz

No

MPFG wrote: »

Tyler Hamilton's voice is very like an American actors voice but I can't rememebr who ???

Sean Penn?

ThisRegard

No

I enjoyed Emma O'Reillys spot. I always had assumed she had closed down on that whole period of her life and was happy to live doing her own thing over the in the UK.

Re Phil Ligget, I too feel bad for him being in the place he is at the moment. I suppose he encompased cycling to me as a kid as while I do remember the Roche/Kelly and Fignon/LeMon period, it was a few years later before I actively sought out the Tour on t.v. And if I was to say what brings back memories most of the Tour it would be Channel 4s coverage, THAT theme tune and Ligget from around the time just before Indurain came to the fore.

I mean look at this, wild flowing 80s manes and everything ! Can anyone ID the 3 riders at the end ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IMjb6sU5Mg

RobFowl

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I enjoyed Emma O'Reillys spot. I always had assumed she had closed down on that whole period of her live and was happy to live doing her own think over the in the UK.

Re Phil Ligget, I too feel a bad for him being in the place he is at the moment. I suppose he encompased cycling to me as a kid as while I do remember the Roche/Kelly and Fignon/LeMon period, it was a few years later before I actively sought out the Tour on t.v. And if I was to say what brings back memories most of the Tour it would be Channel 4s coverage, THAT theme tune and Ligget from around the time just before Indurain came to the fore.

Good memories (pity they've been spolied)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=243BJu0zB50

ThisRegard

No

RobFowl wrote: »

Good memories (pity they've been spolied)

I was literally going to post similar. Since seeking the original theme tune I've been browsing some the related videos, inlcuding the top 20 moments of the tour and it's sad actually watching them in light of what we all know now. Most of them include many of the players in the USADA report, and there's a comment in one of the vids from LeMon on Indurain and his crazy time trails saying "I don't know how he does it, I know I couldn't".

Finnrocco

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I mean look at this, wild flowing 80s manes and everything ! Can anyone ID the 3 riders at the end ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IMjb6sU5Mg

Steven Rooks in polka dot.

Pedro Delgado in yellow - tested positive for a masking agent just before it was put on the UCI banned list (even though it was on the Olympics banned list).

Gert Jan Theunisse - combo jersey. Late in his career developed a great ability to climb big mountains, later IIRC admitted to EPO use.

Not sure if Rooks ever was involved in any doping controversy.

This was around 88 / 89.

RobFowl

No

Finnrocco wrote: »

Not sure if Rooks ever was involved in any doping controversy.

This was around 88 / 89.

He was , admiited to doping in an interview on dutch TV some years ago ...

Finnrocco

No

RobFowl wrote: »

He was , admitted to doping in an interview on dutch TV some years ago ...

Ok I missed that, these were dirty times as well.

Rooks and Theunisse were the climbing twins, both had been decent riders (Rooks won Liege) but suddenly they were romping away on all the big climbs.

It just shows, if it looks suspicious, it is very suspicious.
Remember the Gewiss team - going 1-2-3 in the hilly classics, with an average rider like Furlan suddenly winning big races.
Was Ferrari behind them as well?

ROK ON

No

velo.2010 wrote: »

Link to 5 Live programme. Hit the speaker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01ngqxd

RobFowl wrote: »

He was , admiited to doping in an interview on dutch TV some years ago ...

Was GJT not doing serious amounts of coke on some stages - I recall reading that somewhere.
The PDM bus back in the day was referred to as the pharmacy iirc.

Finnrocco

No

Finnrocco wrote: »

.

Gewiss team - going 1-2-3 in the hilly classics, with an average rider like Furlan suddenly winning big races.
Was Ferrari behind them as well?

The good doctor was involved back then .......

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4869

wonderfullife

No

Made the mistake of starting the BBC podcast at 1am, gripped til 3am!

As a person, i've really warmed to Tyler Hamilton especially after this piece. He seems like a genuinely decent person (putting aside sports/cheating). In terms of testimony, Matt de Canio came across like you would put your house on the fact he's telling the stone cold truth.

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

velo.2010

Feel asleep as I listened to Miller. Not that he was totally boring, it was 1.30am!

You could sense the interviewer was picking his jaw up off the ground several times when Hamilton described the level of doping in such a laidback manner.

Emma O'Reilly sounds like a good laugh. I bet she has some stories she could tell besides the doping. I can sense a book in the near future!

Cienciano

No

If this is true, it explains a lot:

The NY Daily News reports that Kathy LeMond testified under oath during a 2006 deposition in the SCA arbitration case that Julian Devries, a mechanic for Armstrong’s team, had told her and others that Nike and Thom Weisel –the San Francisco banker who sponsored and part-owned Armstrong’s team - had transferred $500,000 to a Swiss bank account that belonged to Verbruggen.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-did-nike-pay-dollar-500000-to-verbruggen-to-cover-up-armstrong-positive

Trojan

No

$500k to Verbruggen does explain a lot. That's the one thing I was confused by - the relatively low amounts of money ($100k) paid to the likes of Ferrari as documented - maybe there was a lot more undocumented.

wonderfullife

No

Trojan wrote: »

$500k to Verbruggen does explain a lot. That's the one thing I was confused by - the relatively low amounts of money ($100k) paid to the likes of Ferrari as documented - maybe there was a lot more undocumented.

The money trail in total showed Ferrari was given $1,000,000 total by Lance for "training advice".

The problem with people like Verbruggen is not isolated to cycling. The UCI is not very different to FIFA in football. It's an old boys club, blind eyes turned, dodgy dealings, brown envelopes, Swiss bank accounts, the lot - and very difficult to exert pressure on them to change.

Money talks. In most spectator sports it costs money to watch the sport. In that sense cycling fans can't organise a mass boycott where it would affect their pockets. It's going to need broadcasters and sponsors to say "right unless him, him and him resign, we're pulling the plug". You'd see change pretty fast.

happytramp

No

wonderfullife wrote: »

In most spectator sports it costs money to watch the sport. In that sense cycling fans can't organise a mass boycott where it would affect their pockets. It's going to need broadcasters and sponsors to say "right unless him, him and him resign, we're pulling the plug". You'd see change pretty fast.

Unfortunately, you're dead right. That's why the response to the Kimmage law suit has been so positive. It's the first time in decades that disgruntled cycling fans have had any sort of forum to voice their discontent in a meaningful way.

noddy69

No

Will be interesting to see how long nike hold on if the scrutiny persists on payments. Its deplorable that they still support him now but if it can be proven they made a payment to cove a drug positive then the newspapers will have an absolute field day with them.....the story was interesting but I get the feeling its gonna get even juicier before the end.

ednwireland

from here

http://donegaldollop.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/donegal-man-crowned-2003-tour-de-france-champion/

Donegal Man Crowned 2003 Tour De France Champion
Posted by Fintan O'Toolbox ⋅ October 15, 2012

The trusty Grifter MK2! The 3-speed Sturmey Archer hub gear struggled during the mountain stages

A retired cyclist from Mountcharles was given a pleasant surprise this afternoon after being informed by the Amaury Sport Organisation that he has been crowned the official winner of the 2003 Tour De France.

Manus Gasta, formerly of the Donegal Bay Cycling Club, originally finished 435th in the 2003 event, cycling an iconic flame red Raleigh Grifter. However, having stripped former champion Lance Armstrong of his titles in the wake of a controversial doping scandal, tournament officials had to go all the way back to Gasta to find a cyclist who wasn’t under the influence of some form of performance-enhancing drug.

ThisRegard

No

Betsy Andreu from Off the Ball last night starts just before 47 minutes in Part 2 of last nights broadcast.

http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/22/monday/2/popup

recedite

No

Cienciano wrote: »

If this is true, it explains a lot:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-did-nike-pay-dollar-500000-to-verbruggen-to-cover-up-armstrong-positive

^^ That half a million dollar payment was in 1999.

Then in 2002 he was using $100,000 in charity money from the Livestrong foundation to buy access to the UCI anti-doping test machinery. Not surprising then that his own laboratory was ahead of any tests they had developed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2218186/Lance-Armstrong-100k-UCI-donation-linked-alleged-drug-test-cover-up.html

dave2pvd

No

Cienciano wrote: »

If this is true, it explains a lot:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-did-nike-pay-dollar-500000-to-verbruggen-to-cover-up-armstrong-positive

Juicy stuff! That would be quite the stunning revelation.

Surprised that CN reported that story though. Unlike say, Velonation, CN have always been (overly?) cautious when it came to soup spitting. This story seems far from verifiable. Hardly beyond belief, mind you. That CN would publish it just goes to show you how fully the tide has turned. Maybe they know more than has been written?

This whole show is going to make a great movie.

Who will play Kimmage?
Who will play Armstrong?
Who will play Hamilton?
Who will play Big George's wife??
But what I really want to know is: who will play Shane Stokes???

Beasty

No

dave2pvd wrote: »

But what I really want to know is: who will play Shane Stokes???

I understand Vlad's gone on a diet in advance of his audition ...

petethedrummer

No

dave2pvd wrote: »

Surprised that CN reported that story though. Unlike say, Velonation, CN have always been (overly?) cautious when it came to soup spitting.

That may be true of their official articles but the forum is a bit of a free for all. You can basically accuse anyone of anything.

walshb

I believe Armstrong did dope. But, he won them races. He didn't have a jet engine attached to his bike. He still went through the pain and he still came out on top. I do no condone cheating, but the man never ever tested positive for illegal drugs in sport/cycling!

Also, someone should tell Bradley Wiggins that there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence.

marienbad

No

walshb wrote: »

I believe Armstrong did dope. But, he won them races. He didn't have a jet engine attached to his bike. He still went through the pain and he still came out on top. I do no condone cheating, but the man never ever tested positive for illegal drugs in sport/cycling!

Also, someone should tell Bradley Wiggins that there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence.

I find this kind of post just so depressing .

ThisRegard

No

walshb wrote: »

I believe Armstrong did dope. But, he won them races. He didn't have a jet engine attached to his bike. He still went through the pain and he still came out on top. I do no condone cheating, but the man never ever tested positive for illegal drugs in sport/cycling!

Not going anywhere near the reasoned decision report, but with the various posts in this thread alone descirbing how even if everyone was doping it's still not a level playing field you're still going down this road ?

And he did test positive, it's been known for years that he tested positive.

Clanket

Yes, but he's still great

walshb wrote: »

I believe Armstrong did dope. But, he won them races. He didn't have a jet engine attached to his bike. He still went through the pain and he still came out on top. I do no condone cheating, but the man never ever tested positive for illegal drugs in sport/cycling!

Also, someone should tell Bradley Wiggins that there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence.

First you say you think he doped then you say he never tested positive. Either you think he did or didn't.

And if you think he did and it's ok, then I really hope you never get any position of power in any business/sport/club etc etc

Kav0777

No

walshb wrote: »

I believe Armstrong did dope. But, he won them races. He didn't have a jet engine attached to his bike. He still went through the pain and he still came out on top. I do no condone cheating, but the man never ever tested positive for illegal drugs in sport/cycling!

Also, someone should tell Bradley Wiggins that there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence.

Fixed your post for you.....

Dermot Illogical

No

walshb wrote: »

But, he won them races.

He didn't. He cheated. And his support cheated. He's a cheating cheater, and he won nothing. Tried to steal plenty though.

corny

No

walshb wrote: »

I believe Armstrong did dope. But, he won them races. He didn't have a jet engine attached to his bike. He still went through the pain and he still came out on top. I do no condone cheating, but the man never ever tested positive for illegal drugs in sport/cycling!

Also, someone should tell Bradley Wiggins that there is no such thing as irrefutable evidence.

Stick to the boxing walshb!!;)