'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

A_Sober_Paddy

No

With this whole LA thing and Rabobank pulling out...also this "clear out" in team Sky, will we start to see real changes or just more of the same?

A_Sober_Paddy

No

MPFG wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/23/will-lance-armstrong-ever-fess-up-and-face-truth/

ROFL

petethedrummer

No

hardCopy wrote: »

I found a website recently with a really cool interface with a dossier of every doping scandal: searchable by year, by rider and by substance. I never bookmarked it and for the life of me I haven't found it since.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about please throw up a link.

http://www.dopeology.org/

hardCopy

No

petethedrummer wrote: »

http://www.dopeology.org/

Kudos to you, no matter what I googled I couldn't find it

Waitsian

No

MPFG wrote: »

and it will probably the first time since 1985 that will be less doping in the pelethon

Less doping. Says it all really. I've heard it all before. I've codded myself long enough. It's rife, and very few of them care. I watch Paris-Roubaix (my favourite race bar none) highlights now - Kelly, Tchmil, Musseuw, Moser, Bauer, Duclos-Lassalle, Van Petegem - and I find myself thinking their performances all a tissue of lies and sporting fraud.

It'll take something extraordinary for me to take any further interest.

MPFG

No

mod9maple wrote: »

Less doping. Says it all really. I've heard it all before. I've codded myself long enough. It's rife, and very few of them care. I watch Paris-Roubaix (my favourite race bar none) highlights now - Kelly, Tchmil, Musseuw, Moser, Bauer, Duclos-Lassalle, Van Petegem - and I find myself thinking their performances all a tissue of lies and sporting fraud.

It'll take something extraordinary for me to take any further interest.

I didn't want to say none just in case but I would suggest a vey low to none will be the probable level of doping next year....

I watched highlights of TdeF from 1985 to 1990 the other week on Youtube ....love cycling ...will still hang in there as love it too much to give up

And believe the British, Irish, Aussies, Canadians and Americans are not doping ....feel good also about the French , Germans & Scandinavians....oh and Peter Sagan !

A_Sober_Paddy

No

MPFG wrote: »

I didn't want to say none just in case but I would suggest a vey low to none will be the probable level of doping next year....

I watched highlights of TdeF from 1985 to 1990 the other week on Youtube ....love cycling ...will still hang in there as love it too much to give up

And believe the British, Irish, Aussies, Canadians and Americans are not doping ....feel good also about the French , Germans & Scandinavians....oh and Peter Sagan !

Really hope Sagan and Voeckler are clean, this years tour was my first and really loved those two guys

Tombo2001

mod9maple wrote: »

Less doping. Says it all really. I've heard it all before. I've codded myself long enough. It's rife, and very few of them care. I watch Paris-Roubaix (my favourite race bar none) highlights now - Kelly, Tchmil, Musseuw, Moser, Bauer, Duclos-Lassalle, Van Petegem - and I find myself thinking their performances all a tissue of lies and sporting fraud.

It'll take something extraordinary for me to take any further interest.

But was there ever a time that doping wasnt part of the sport.....going back to the very first tours 120 years ago........

To put it another way, is it plausible to have a sport that involves cycling around France for 23 consecutive days, long distances each day at high speeds with gruelling ascents, where the participants are mostly or all 'clean'............is it an unrealistic aspiration? Because if it has never done before (which I am guessing is the case), then why should one expect it now?

Raam

No

Apart from the dead riders who died from complications from taking doping products, I mostly feel sorry for those riders who race clean but who have to stand on the lower steps of the podium and pretend to be happy whilst some arsehole thinks it's OK to cheat him out of what he should have won. That's gotta be hard to take... knowing that this other rider is not playing fair but you can't do anything about it.

Flandria

No

Has Piti got some kind of electric groin type thing going on there?

drogdub

No

Just heard Roche on Off the Ball now, very hard to listen to, again he sometimes struggles with english.

He did give a good answer about Opertion Puerto 150 names going missing, no non cyclist getting named or suspended, court case getting shut down by another judge when the original judge goes on holiday, et al and mcDevitt attacks him on simantics, the vendetta thing, and because he crtiscised a fellow journo, a colleague of McDevitt, just like some of the peleoton, protecting their colleagues, totally ignoring Roches point.

Oh and his english speaking cousin has been very quiet, atleast Nico is talking.

GT_TDI_150

No

Raam wrote: »

Apart from the dead riders who died from complications from taking doping products, I mostly feel sorry for those riders who race clean but who have to stand on the lower steps of the podium and pretend to be happy whilst some arsehole thinks it's OK to cheat him out of what he should have won. That's gotta be hard to take... knowing that this other rider is not playing fair but you can't do anything about it.

Not wanting to jump down ur throat, but the opening line of your post had me breaking out in a sweat ...

I dont feel sorry for any dopers, dead or alive ...

At the end of the day they all chose to dope, whatever excuses they are peddling now they all chose to do it.

They all knew right from wrong, why else all the evasiveness to avoid testing (positive)...

Im sure theres a ton of things we can all think off that people do/did knowing full well it is wrong/illegal but because everyone else gets away with it its ok?!

10-15yrs ago 90% of people going for a few pints would drive home after because they knew the chances of getting caught were minuscule, their fear fear wasn't hitting some one else, their fear was getting caught.

In my eyes the dopers are/were the same, the fear isn't what harm they are doing to their bodies, to the sport, to other clean riders or to riders they encouraged to join in, they are afraid of getting caught!!

Sorry but that just ain't good enough!!

Any i don't understand why there are no life time bans been dished out on a more regular basis ... Doctors can get struck off the register, financial traders can be ban for life, you can go to jail for fraud in the normal world but sport star get a miserable 6month to few year ban for doping(achieving results by illegal means = fraud to me)!?

Give me a break!!

And breath .....

MPFG

No

Flandria wrote: »

Has Piti got some kind of electric groin type thing going on there?

Which one is Piti (Valverde ??) - they all have soemthing going on as far as I can see But enough of that !!

Really like Peter Sagan ...he is young, and a breath of fresh air....Love how he laughs silly when he answers a question during an interview

Not too gone on Vocleur though ..although bless his heart he does try ...can't bear the faces and the tongue thing

Waitsian

No

MPFG wrote: »

Which one is Piti (Valverde ??)

L-R: Martin, Valverde, Zubeldia

leftism

No

I'd cheer for Irish athletes playing tiddlywinks, but sometimes i find myself cheering more quietly for Nico... His attitude both on and off the bike annoys me.

Flandria

No

The Puerto evidence had Valverde coded as Piti

MPFG

No

Flandria wrote: »

The Puerto evidence had Valverde coded as Piti

Thanks ......thought that was was Bernie Eizel on the right btw



and as for Nico I quite like him...he is not perfect but he is very transparent...in his bio his father seemed very hard on him and distant and he suffered because of his parents marriage problems....he seemed to me like he wants to please (esp dad) and he is very emotional

but each to his own .....

petethedrummer

No

leftism wrote: »

I'd cheer for Irish athletes playing tiddlywinks, but sometimes i find myself cheering more quietly for Nico... His attitude both on and off the bike annoys me.

I think he's in an awful delicate position. He really should not be putting himself forward for these interviews without extensive PR coaching, which I normally loathe. He really needs to sort out his stance on all the arguments and which questions to answer and which to politely refuse.

Finnrocco

No

hardCopy wrote: »

I found a website recently with a really cool interface with a dossier of every doping scandal: searchable by year, by rider and by substance. I never bookmarked it and for the life of me I haven't found it since.

If anyone knows what I'm talking about please throw up a link.

This one maybe ?

http://forum.teamsaxobanktinkoffbank.com/pop_printer_friendly.asp?TOPIC_ID=5013

ThisRegard

No

drogdub wrote: »

He did give a good answer about Opertion Puerto 150 names going missing, no non cyclist getting named or suspended,.,....

It wasn't a good answer, it was a typical whataboutery answer we hear a lot these days.

And McDeviitt didn't go hard on him at all, he was fair and there were plenty of opportunities he could have pressed him harder but you almost sensed he was feeling bad for Roche talking himself down so many blind alleys. It was an awful interview he gave, he only has himself to blame as my 2 year old kid could have told me the type of questions he was going to be asked and would have been prep'd for them.

drogdub

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

It wasn't a good answer, it was a typical whataboutery answer we hear a lot these days.

And McDeviitt didn't go hard on him at all, he was fair and there were plenty of opportunities he could have pressed him harder but you almost sensed he was feeling bad for Roche talking himself down so many blind alleys. It was an awful interview he gave, he only has himself to blame as my 2 year old kid could have told me the type of questions he was going to be asked and would have been prep'd for them.

We hear it alot because its a very releavant question, that doesn't get answered. Why shouldn't cyclists ask about 150 names going missing, no non cyclist getting named or suspended,.,..... No one else seems to.

carltonleon

No

Great piece here from Bradley McGee.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/how-dopers-stole-the-best-years-of-my-career-20121026-28aif.html

ThisRegard

No

drogdub wrote: »

We hear it alot because its a very releavant question, that doesn't get answered. Why shouldn't cyclists ask about 150 names going missing, no non cyclist getting named or suspended,.,..... No one else seems to.

Because the issue is about cycling, not other sports. You don't tell your neighbours their garden is a state while your own is an overgrown mess.

Tombo2001

MPFG wrote: »

and it will probably the first time since 1985 that will be less doping in the pelethon

If Contador wins it, does that not mean its Plus Ca Change.....?

Morrisseeee

No

I feel SICK when I read that Contador, Sanchez & Indurain still support Armstrong. How does someone want to be credible by saying that?!

from Marcel Kittel......................fair play Marcel

I'd say the peloton will be a 'fun' place to be next year :rolleyes:

DeadMan1

No

carltonleon wrote: »

Great piece here from Bradley McGee.

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/how-dopers-stole-the-best-years-of-my-career-20121026-28aif.html

"I have never taken or used performance-enhancing drugs, but I know that cyclists are and will continue to be doubted - unfortunately with good reason. I can't control people's beliefs. I can only tell of my personal experiences.
For four years now I have been a sports director with the Saxo Bank-Tinkoff Bank team. I have one simple rule – no doping. It's really not that difficult.
I'm no angel. I have and will continue to make mistakes, but on the issue of doping I have stayed true to my ethical and moral standards."

Interesting, and positive, to read from someone within Tinkoff

MPFG

No

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If Contador wins it, does that not mean its Plus Ca Change.....?

I think Contador will win it ....I can't see anyone beating him..

Hopefully he has learned his lesson and will do it clean .....if he dopes again he will be finished if caught and the system did catch him already...Also he is with Mcgee at saxo now who have a strong anti -doping policy ...Bjarne has also been anti doping for some years now and signed Contador before the 2010 test came to light
I so want Contador to be clean as he is the most talented rider par none

Tombo2001

MPFG wrote: »

I think Contador will win it ....I can't see anyone beating him..

Hopefully he has learned his lesson and will do it clean .....if he dopes again he will be finished if caught and the system did catch him already...

Yes, if caught.......which is a pretty big if.

Anyway, and if he wins and doesnt fail a test, then we dont know if hes clean or he just wasnt caught.

Ditto Vinokourov at the olympics.

corny

No

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Yes, if caught.......which is a pretty big if.

Anyway, and if he wins and doesnt fail a test, then we dont know if hes clean or he just wasnt caught.

Ditto Vinokourov at the olympics.

All we know for certain is that in this years Vuelta he struggled to better a man finding his best form at 33 for 16 stages only to come out after the rest day and put 2 and a half minutes into him.

Contador will win lots more grand tours before he retires.

Tombo2001

corny wrote: »

All we know for certain is that in this years Vuelta he struggled to better a man finding his best form at 33 for 16 stages only to come out after the rest day and put 2 and a half minutes into him.

Contador will win lots more grand tours before he retires.

If Armstrong was banned for life, why should Contador be treated differently (not a rhetorical question).