'Enough is Enough' - Lance Armstrong

Flandria

No

Tombo2001 wrote: »

If Armstrong was banned for life, why should Contador be treated differently (not a rhetorical question).

Because Contador, unlike Lance, wasn't charged with trafficking and conspiracy

mcgratheoin

No

Morrisseeee wrote: »

from Marcel Kittel......................fair play Marcel

I'd say the peloton will be a 'fun' place to be next year :rolleyes:

Great quote. I'm hoping that there'll be so much bad press over doping and current riders supporting Armstrong that anyone with Contador's attitude will be the new "spitting in the soup". If attitudes like Contador threaten the livelihood of the rest of the riders then hopefully they won't be tolerated within the peleton.

As a separate issue, aside from Cancellara, who are the current patrons in the peleton? There isn't a dominant personality like Armstrong so I'd imagine that Kittel (or someone like Sagan) wouldn't be shy about telling anybody where they could shove their omerta....

Hungrycol

Yes, but he's still great

Friday Observation:

Raam wrote: »

Apart from the dead riders who died from complications from taking doping products,

Hang on, how do dead riders die? Vampire cyclists*?

*too many jokes!

Macy0161

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

Because the issue is about cycling, not other sports. You don't tell your neighbours their garden is a state while your own is an overgrown mess.

To a point. But it does grate with me that (mainly) field sports journalists and fans write off cycling on the doping, and then don't give any credance to it going on in "their" sports. I'm not really sure it's "whataboutery" more looking for some consistency. People shouldn't write off one sport whilst being completely ignorant about others regarding doping. To paraphrase Robert Millar (I think), a footballer who takes cortisone to play through an injury is a hero, a cyclist who does it is a cheat.

Nico is on a hiding to nothing putting himself in the public domain, with about as much pr coaching as he's had on time trialling apparently. However, whatever about some of his answers, the easy option would be for him to hide away and not answer the phone. So for that at least, he does get kudos from me.

Raam

No

Hungrycol wrote: »

Friday Observation:



Hang on, how do dead riders die? Vampire cyclists*?

*too many jokes!

As opposed to the departed who died from other causes.

MPFG

No

Hungrycol wrote: »

Friday Observation:



Hang on, how do dead riders die? Vampire cyclists*?

*too many jokes!

ha ha

with all that blood doping I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few vampires in the pelethon

Oh maybe that could be the movie ( there are endless possibilities) ... A cavern ( whatever the word is) of vampire cyclists who live on top of Alp de Huez ...and whose leader drinks the most blood from the original maker ...ie Vino's uncle ...( he does roughly come from the right part of the world)

Morrisseeee

No

An interesting discussion on the soccer forum !!

"FC Barcelona linked to Lance Armstrong's doping doctor" :(

Karma

No

meanwhile, over on done deal...
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/bicycles/4090871

Wicklowrider

Karma wrote: »

meanwhile, over on done deal...
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/bicycles/4090871

that is BRILLIANT! (How do ya like them apples????)

ThisRegard

No

Macy0161 wrote: »

To a point. But it does grate with me that (mainly) field sports journalists and fans write off cycling on the doping, and then don't give any credance to it going on in "their" sports. I'm not really sure it's "whataboutery" more looking for some consistency.

I agree to an extent, but it was Roche, a cyclist, in a conversation about the doping scandal in cycling and talking about two, for the most part, cycling journalists. Walsh and Kimmage and the whole USADA case aren't blow-ins from soccer or rugby so there was no need to go along the lines but what about the soccer players involved.

Macy0161

No

ThisRegard wrote: »

I agree to an extent, but it was Roche, a cyclist, in a conversation about the doping scandal in cycling and talking about two, for the most part, cycling journalists. Walsh and Kimmage and the whole USADA case aren't blow-ins from soccer or rugby so there was no need to go along the lines but what about the soccer players involved.

McDevitt is though.

hans aus dtschl

Morrisseeee wrote: »

An interesting discussion on the soccer forum !!

"FC Barcelona linked to Lance Armstrong's doping doctor" :(

That thread reads like the average conversation in our office.

Soccer's definitely clean. There's no way "our" lads are doping.
They take growth hormone, cortisone, and whatever else, but it's not doping: it's just helping them recover faster and run faster and jump higher...
They play loads of matches, of course they're going to take stuff to recover.
They had backdated perscriptions for cortisone to help with a knee injury.
Etc.

It's laughable.

Cycling's in an awful state, when you look at the cut of Contodor and others defending Armstrong, but you gotta wonder about some of the soccer lads' miracle recoveries, miracle work rates, the company they keep (the doctors involved) etc. Where the money's involved, the temptation's always going to be there.

People may dislike Pat McQuaid, but if he behaved like Sepp Blatter "there's no racism in football, there's no drugs in football etc etc" I can only imagine the outcry.

Cienciano

No

Off the Ball facebook page posted this. Worth watching, it's a smarmy creepy looking Stephen Roche defending himself against David Walsh on the Late Late show in 2002. 2 years after an Italian court said he used EPO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v0qlliFq8U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v0qlliFq8U

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

That thread reads like the average conversation in our office.

Soccer's definitely clean. There's no way "our" lads are doping.
They take growth hormone, cortisone, and whatever else, but it's not doping: it's just helping them recover faster and run faster and jump higher...
They play loads of matches, of course they're going to take stuff to recover.
They had backdated perscriptions for cortisone to help with a knee injury.
Etc.

It's laughable.

Are you reading the same thing as me? In that thread everyone is saying the opposite, there has to be doping in soccer cos of the money on it

2 Wheels Good

No

Cienciano wrote: »

Off the Ball facebook page posted this. Worth watching, it's a smarmy creepy looking Stephen Roche defending himself against David Walsh on the Late Late show in 2002. 2 years after an Italian court said he used EPO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v0qlliFq8U&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v0qlliFq8U

Are you reading the same thing as me? In that thread everyone is saying the opposite, there has to be doping in soccer cos of the money on it

No, there's no doping in soccer, they just take medicine to recover faster from injury and supplements to improve quicker.

hans aus dtschl

Cienciano wrote: »

Are you reading the same thing as me? In that thread everyone is saying the opposite, there has to be doping in soccer cos of the money on it

Admittedly I'm only talking about the more outlandish posts, for instance:

Too much has come out about it now at this stage for it to be taken with some seriousness. Its even developing like the Armstrong case slowly too.
Or could be just witch hunt.

I know plenty of it's tongue in cheek but really it makes you wonder if there's any appetite for it in some of the more heavy-hitting (money-wise) sports.

Junior

Cycling Ireland release statement regarding USADA case and McQuaid

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Documents/CI_Statement_USADA_Case.aspx

Morrisseeee

No

So they utterly condemn the aiding and abetting of Armstrong's practices, but see no reason for McQuaid to resign :eek::(:confused:

MPFG

No

http://english.gazzetta.it/More_sports/17-10-2012/the-ferrari-system-swiss-bank-accounts-fake-contracts-912946609743.shtml

hardCopy

No

Junior wrote: »

Cycling Ireland release statement regarding USADA case and McQuaid

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Documents/CI_Statement_USADA_Case.aspx

*vomits*

Tombo2001

hardCopy wrote: »

*vomits*

Its like dubya said, if yer not with us yer against us.....

Junior

Interesting piece from Wired http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/10/lance-armstrong-and-the-prisoners-dilemma-of-doping-in-professional-sports/

Terrible piece from Wilcockson http://www.pelotonmagazine.com/Wilcockson/content/21/1939/One-More-Confession,-One-More-Apology

TheBlaaMan

No

Junior wrote: »

Cycling Ireland release statement regarding USADA case and McQuaid

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/Documents/CI_Statement_USADA_Case.aspx

UCI have announced this afternoon that they have decided to suspend the legal action against Paul Kimmage. ...... according to reliable sources on Twitter

quelle surprise.....



MORE HERE http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-management-committee-will-not-reallocate-armstrongs-tours

Flandria

No

Wow, we now travelling at hyperspeed now!

TheBlaaMan

No

Yeah....... maybe. More likely this is little more than a tactical decision to buy some time and let the UCI committee establish a review committee -external - to assess allegations against them. The real truth will be in just how independent this commission is ............

time to keep the pressure on them and not let the ball drop !

Cienciano

No

I hope he hasn't booked the Jumbo just yet

MPFG

No

If I were the UCI ( and I am gald I am not) that is exactly what i would do ....have an independent enquiry as it takes the heat off and gives one time to regroup

As you get older you realise that no one man has total right on their side nor total wrong...I never thought Pat McQuaid was corrupt or I never thought he took a bribe from Lance Armstrong (or anyone else) to cover up doping tests ...I don't believe it .....But I do think that he/UCI are ineffectual and not fit for purpose especailly through the Lanc Armstrong years ...maybe like current Livestrong supporters they chose not ot see or persue or ask too closely...Afterall doping had been going on too long to open that can of worms...why rock the boat (gravy train to the world of cycling ) that was Lance Armstrong and co....or just maybe they were too inefficient and didn't know nor have the wherewithall to investigate beyond the testing process....

So not sure Kimmage would have won his case

theholyghost

No

Macy0161 wrote: »

McDevitt is though.

I agree with this sentiment to a point. I really like OTB but they seem to exclusively cover cycling from a negative amgle. They have given far, far more coverage to this story than they do to the Tour de France. Occasionally during the tour they have Nico on or Kimmage and whenever Kimmage is on he only talks about doping, never the day's action in the tour. When he was on about the Olympics it was to critcise Roche.

That annoys me. Not that they shouldn't talk about doping but that they only talk about doping. I'm sure that gets the back up of the likes of Nico when his sport is only talked about in this negative way.

That's my problem with Kimmage in general too, I've never heard him be a cycling journalist, only a doping-cycling journalist.

Tombo2001

theholyghost wrote: »

They have given far, far more coverage to this story than they do to the Tour de France. .

No different to every more or less every other media outlet in the world in that respect.

And in other sports where doping is the major story - say baseball - they would generally do the same.

It may be like Oscar Wilde says, only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

World Handball Championships were on in Dublin, great event, great attendances. Newstalk gave the result of the final about 8 seconds.

If its not on a bunch of lads chasing a ball around a field, most media outlets are not interested.

noddy69

No

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

UCI have announced this afternoon that they have decided to suspend the legal action against Paul Kimmage. ...... according to reliable sources on Twitter

quelle surprise.....



MORE HERE http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-management-committee-will-not-reallocate-armstrongs-tours

I have to say that Greg Le Mondes comments have the UCI running scared about what he has on them. Shame on them for taking the case, yet dropping it now after statements of intent .....more red faces and more reason for new people at the helm.

Dermot Illogical

No

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20103406

"In the report, it was also claimed that Armstrong paid the UCI $100,000 (£62,300) for the fight against anti-doping."

Sounds about right