Horse and traps on the Tipperary roundabout

meoklmrk91

Anybody who drives in and out of the ballysimon side of limerick will know that this is a common site. The other day I was coming up to the roundabout at about 3:30pm when i spotted some young lads, 9-12 I would guess going around the roundabout on a normal sized trap with a pony, and there going a long beside them was a miniature carriage/trap with two little girls who couldn't have been more than 4/5, to give you an idea of how small it was it was being pulled by a shetland pony!

It's ridiculous enough when grown adults do it but seriously does this not count as child endangerment? I've never heard of any of them being pulled by gardai or seen the gardai do anything about it. What if someone let their 4/5 year old cycle around a very busy roundabout on a bicycle, there would be uproar, or at least I hope there would. Im all for people expressing their culture but this is just getting ridiculous!

boomerang

I was stuck behind those young lads earlier in the week. The car behind me got impatient and blew the horn. Just as they're turning into the halting site the young fella takes one hand off the reins to give the finger and roars at the driver to f*ck off. I'd imagine his parents would say the same to the gardai.

Skuxx

I reckon if I wrote what I really feel about them I'd be banned for life, so let's just say they realy really really piss me off!!!

meoklmrk91

boomerang wrote: »

I was stuck behind those young lads earlier in the week. The car behind me got impatient and blew the horn. Just as they're turning into the halting site the young fella takes one hand off the reins to give the finger and roars at the driver to f*ck off. I'd imagine his parents would say the same to the gardai.

That's the problem, maybe if the gardai continually seized the horses and the traps on the grounds of child endangerment or endangering the public might teach them a bloody lesson. What it's okay for certain segments of society to do this but like I said in my OP, if anyone else let their child cycle a bicycle around this roundabout people would loose their minds and rightly so. I honestly don't care what the parents would or would not say to he gardai, this is a dangerous practice and it needs to stop. At the very least it should be illegal to carry anyone under the age of 16 on one of these traps never mind let them drive the fecking thing!

mitosis

The Gardai are not the problem. The Law Makers and Judiciary are. And the PC pro anything marginal crew. There's no point in the Guards doing anything as they will get no backup in Court.

europa11

It's their culture!

As soon as one of them cause an accident (and someone else will die because they are naturally immune from hazard), the PC lobby and Pavee Point will be out defending them by telling the rest of us nothing would have happened if only we had provided racetracks and pony clubs for these, the marginalised in our society.

btw, while Ballysimon Rd. is probably the worst afflicted area I saw another example of this wonderful part of traveller culture one Saturday morning recently as three kids (eldest no more than 8) were "driving" a trap down towards the Bus Station - naturally wrong way on the one-way section of Hyde Road - with a tiny Shetland pony (probably the same poor animal mentioned earlier) being used to transport the entire brood into town. An Expressway bus swinging out of the depot had to shudder to a halt as the jolly travellers went merrily on their way.

Some parents they must have......made me think back to when one of the excuse-them-for-everything crowd was on radio bemoaning the "fact" that travellers die younger than taxpayers. Sending your kids out on motorways with ponies and traps may be a factor there.

But keep drivin'

whatdoicare

The family that owns these kids and the shetland live on the Kilmallock road. They hold up traffic at least three times a day there - they've never been called aside by Gardai and it's a pretty regular occurrence for the young lads to pull the cart out in front of on coming traffic without warning. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Good news though, the young fellas have recently upgraded to the adult cart and are now even more dangerous! The dad takes the shetland and mini cart out for a run up and down the childers road now just for kicks - and he's not a skinny small man, if you know what I mean. Poor pony.:(

meoklmrk91

whatdoicare wrote: »

The family that owns these kids and the shetland live on the Kilmallock road. They hold up traffic at least three times a day there - they've never been called aside by Gardai and it's a pretty regular occurrence for the young lads to pull the cart out in front of on coming traffic without warning. It's an accident waiting to happen.

Good news though, the young fellas have recently upgraded to the adult cart and are now even more dangerous! The dad takes the shetland and mini cart out for a run up and down the childers road now just for kicks - and he's not a skinny small man, if you know what I mean. Poor pony.:(

Thats interesting, I thought it was the ones from Childers Rd. The fact that they do this so often is not only dangerous and annoying, it gives anyone coming in and out of Limerick a very bad image to the place, imagine never having visited Limerick before and seeing this it would make you think the place is lawless and feral. No horse/pony should be run on concrete or tarmac. it not only hurts them, if they are going fast enough the pedal bone can drop down through the sole of the foot, this is incredibly painful and since there is no fix the horses have to be put to sleep, other than this it causes other problems with their hooves, joints and bones.These people are meant to be great horse people, and many are, but a lot of them have no regard for their animals and if they knew anything they would not have their horses on some of the busiest public roads in limerick.

jamezy

europa11 wrote: »

It's their culture!

But keep drivin'

Ha, I god damn HATE that argument. Circumcision and cannibalism are also parts of some peoples culture. But that doesn't make it right.

PC Bollox.

whatdoicare

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

Thats interesting, I thought it was the ones from Childers Rd. The fact that they do this so often is not only dangerous and annoying, it gives anyone coming in and out of Limerick a very bad image to the place, imagine never having visited Limerick before and seeing this it would make you think the place is lawless and feral. No horse/pony should be run on concrete or tarmac. it not only hurts them, if they are going fast enough the pedal bone can drop down through the sole of the foot, this is incredibly painful and since there is no fix the horses have to be put to sleep, other than this it causes other problems with their hooves, joints and bones.These people are meant to be great horse people, and many are, but a lot of them have no regard for their animals and if they knew anything they would not have their horses on some of the busiest public roads in limerick.

I see the family every single day - they're "settled" travellers. You can't miss the house if you head up Kilmallock road - it sticks out like a sore thumb complete with grotto for holy Mary! It's not far from the Childers road settlement and they're probably related but it's definitely that house. The Dad bought the shetland for his son about a year and a half ago - they often come around our area on the little trap hassling the local kids.

I agree it's bad for Limerick's image, it's dangerous to the kids and anyone unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it's bad for the horse. I've seen the lads from the childers road hook what could only be described as a foal to a trap a few times, poor thing wasn't even shoed (sp?) What that's doing to the horses bones and muscles is beyond cruelty.

They shouldn't be allowed to do it if they don't possess land and "their culture" shouldn't be used as a shield to excuse them.

meoklmrk91

whatdoicare wrote: »

I see the family every single day - they're "settled" travellers. You can't miss the house if you head up Kilmallock road - it sticks out like a sore thumb complete with grotto for holy Mary! It's not far from the Childers road settlement and they're probably related but it's definitely that house. The Dad bought the shetland for his son about a year and a half ago - they often come around our area on the little trap hassling the local kids.

I agree it's bad for Limerick's image, it's dangerous to the kids and anyone unlucky enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and it's bad for the horse. I've seen the lads from the childers road hook what could only be described as a foal to a trap a few times, poor thing wasn't even shoed (sp?) What that's doing to the horses bones and muscles is beyond cruelty.

They shouldn't be allowed to do it if they don't possess land and "their culture" shouldn't be used as a shield to excuse them.

Too bloody right, since when can putting other peoples lives in danger, causing havoc and delays and putting defenceless animals at a risk of injury or worse part of someones culture, I don't care if they kill themselves but the kids shouldn't be involved either.

seachto7

It's their culture? Well, it's my culture to beep and abuse anything that is crawling along, and shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

padma

lads, relax, this is ireland. it's been this way for thousands of years, roads were originally built for horses and horses have the same rights to the road as cars so just accept it and move on.

meoklmrk91

padma wrote: »

lads, relax, this is ireland. it's been this way for thousands of years, roads were originally built for horses and horses have the same rights to the road as cars so just accept it and move on.

Really would you put your 5 year old in a car and let them drive around a busy roundabout ? Because as far as I am concerned it is the same thing!

Kess73

padma wrote: »

lads, relax, this is ireland. it's been this way for thousands of years, roads were originally built for horses and horses have the same rights to the road as cars so just accept it and move on.

Is that why it is illegal to have horses on certain types of roadway in Ireland?

The Little Fella

padma wrote: »

lads, relax, this is ireland. it's been this way for thousands of years, roads were originally built for horses and horses have the same rights to the road as cars so just accept it and move on.

Really, really??? so it's ok for them to come out at rush hour in the evenings deliberately, causing absolute grief at some of the busiest roundabouts in the city like the tipperary and kilmallock ones causing me to nearly crash into one during the week because they pulled out in front of me. All they are is a bunch of attention seeking low lifes.

padma

of course, it is illegal on motorways and dual carriageways

padma

The Little Fella wrote: »

Really, really??? so it's ok for them to come out at rush hour in the evenings deliberately, causing absolute grief at some of the busiest roundabouts in the city like the tipperary and kilmallock ones causing me to nearly crash into one during the week because they pulled out in front of me. All they are is a bunch of attention seeking low lifes.

Low life's, scum, bla bla bla, take it easy on the bigotry there

The Dagda

The Little Fella wrote: »

Really, really??? so it's ok for them to come out at rush hour in the evenings deliberately, causing absolute grief at some of the busiest roundabouts in the city like the tipperary and kilmallock ones causing me to nearly crash into one during the week because they pulled out in front of me. All they are is a bunch of attention seeking low lifes.

What a ridiculous post. You need to chill out. If you nearly crashed it was your own fault. All road users have the same rights, whatever the mode of transport. As the poster above said, the roads were originally built for horses, if you encounter them on the road, adjust your driving accordingly. Your time can't be so valuable that a minute or two of a delay is such a big deal?!

Beaver1

sure isn't it illegal to have horses in the city center without a license so if the road is on the city centre then its illegal to have a horse on it, what the government should do is put a road tax on a horse and trap and you need a license on your driving license to drive one, that would give the guards power to remove them if then had no tax or license.

Kess73

The Dagda wrote: »

What a ridiculous post. You need to chill out. If you nearly crashed it was your own fault. All road users have the same rights, whatever the mode of transport. As the poster above said, the roads were originally built for horses, if you encounter them on the road, adjust your driving accordingly. Your time can't be so valuable that a minute or two of a delay is such a big deal?!

Whilst I disagree with the language and terms used by the other poster that your post above is replying to, there is one very valid point lurking in his post.

If people want to go onto public roads using their horse and cart, then they should be subject to the same basic rules of the road as any other road user and be just as accountable for their actions should they decide to ignore those rules as any other road user would be.

As for the roads originally being built for horse drawn transport, this is correct to a large degree but modern road surfaces are not designed to be horse friendly and can over time cause health issues for a horse and pose a number of basic safety issues for horse drawn vehicles due to things like the horse's grip on the surface not being as good as on the old fashioned roads from yesteryear.

The Dagda

Kess73 wrote: »

Whilst I disagree with the language and terms used by the other poster that your post above is replying to, there is one very valid point lurking in his post.

If people want to go onto public roads using their horse and cart, then they should be subject to the same basic rules of the road as any other road user and be just as accountable for their actions should they decide to ignore those rules as any other road user would be.

As for the roads originally being built for horse drawn transport, this is correct to a large degree but modern road surfaces are not designed to be horse friendly and can over time cause health issues for a horse and pose a number of basic safety issues for horse drawn vehicles due to things like the horse's grip on the surface not being as good as on the old fashioned roads from yesteryear.

I disagree. Little fella's post had no valid points.

I agree with you that all road users should follow the rules.

I don't see what difference the road surface makes. The roads are there to use to travel from one point to another. As technology advanced road surfaces changed, but they're still, mostly, the same roads. There are no alternatives for people who wish to travel using horses.

The Little Fella

The Dagda wrote: »

I disagree. Little fella's post had no valid points.

I agree with you that all road users should follow the rules.

I don't see what difference the road surface makes. The roads are there to use to travel from one point to another. As technology advanced road surfaces changed, but they're still, mostly, the same roads. There are no alternatives for people who wish to travel using horses.

I might have been a little bit harsh in my first comment but i still stand by the point, the cruelty the horses suffer by not using proper equipment and probably how they are kept as well leaves a lot to be desired. Also they are intentionally on the road at busy times of the day, trying to be a nuisance to people commuting. Surely you can agree also that small children should not be using these. It is simply downright dangerous. As someone said earlier, the ballysimon road is also one of the main thoroughfares into the city, hardly gives a good impression to a city with an already terrible reputation if one of your first sights are small children on sulkies.

Most evenings i encounter them on the way home from work and they usually would not bother me but when they act recklessly like pulling out in front of me on a roundabout when i have right of way is annoying to say the least.

boomerang

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/ispca-wants-sulky-road-racing-banned-1-4164971

meoklmrk91

The Dagda wrote: »

I disagree. Little fella's post had no valid points.

I agree with you that all road users should follow the rules.

I don't see what difference the road surface makes. The roads are there to use to travel from one point to another. As technology advanced road surfaces changed, but they're still, mostly, the same roads. There are no alternatives for people who wish to travel using horses.

If you don't care for the safety of other road users then are you in favour of animal cruelty because anything more than walking a horse on a modern road can and has cased serious damage and injury to these horses, and even if they don't receive an blatant injury it does damage to their joints which causes them pain for the rest of their lives. And while there may be some who walk them I have never personally seen any they are all trotted. Anyone who has been to any riding school worth it's salt will tell you this.

From the above article:
“Trotting must only be done on the correct surface which ensures the least amount of damage to horses. Driving young horses or ponies flat out at high speed on busy roads and motorways is not only dangerous but is blatant animal abuse. One trip or stumble can be fatal or cause devastating injuries. Severe damage to joints at such a young age can leave the animal in chronic pain with permanent immobility.”

From an article in the cork independent, Cathy Wilde, formally of the ISPCA and now running Mallow Animal Rescue.

She has seen the horrific injuries that ponies have suffered first hand. One is when the pedal bone drops down through the sole of the foot and the animal must be destroyed. It is incredibly painful, she says.
“I would have seen a lot of young horses that would have been injured racing on roads.
“A lot of young guys haven’t great horse skills like older travellers did, so they can’t handle adult horses. That’s why they use young horses,” she said. However young horses under three shouldn’t be worked hard, as they haven’t matured and can still grow until they are five years old in some cases. 
“Racing them hard on roads causes problems to their joints, legs and feet.

http://corkindependent.com/stories/item/9150/2012-19/Madness

The Dagda

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

If you don't care for the safety of other road users then are you in favour of animal cruelty

Logic Fail!

I didn't post anything for you to form the opinion that I'm in favour of animal cruelty. Try reading posts and responding to what is ACTUALLY in them, rather than twisting them into something else, so you can repeat something you've said earlier in the thread.

meoklmrk91

The Dagda wrote: »

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

If you don't care for the safety of other road users then are you in favour of animal cruelty

Logic Fail!

I didn't post anything for you to form the opinion that I'm in favour of animal cruelty. Try reading posts and responding to what is ACTUALLY in them, rather than twisting them into something else, so you can repeat something you've said earlier in the thread.

I must actually apologise f

meoklmrk91

The Dagda wrote: »

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

If you don't care for the safety of other road users then are you in favour of animal cruelty

Logic Fail!

I didn't post anything for you to form the opinion that I'm in favour of animal cruelty. Try reading posts and responding to what is ACTUALLY in them, rather than twisting them into something else, so you can repeat something you've said earlier in the thread.

I must actually apologise for that, it was late last night when I was posting, I should have reviewed my post before posting, accusing you of being in favour of animal cruelty was unfair. What I meant to say was maybe you are in favour of animal welfare.

I understand your point that the roads were originally there for horses, I have no problem with horses on the road, as long as nobodies is put at risk, these includes other road users, the people using the horses and the horses themselves. The reason that I posted this thread is I believe that this is an accident waiting to happen, young children put in charge of unpredictable animals in one of the busiest areas of limerick with zero adult supervision! Something has to be done about it.

kopfan77

The Dagda wrote: »

What a ridiculous post. You need to chill out. If you nearly crashed it was your own fault. All road users have the same rights, whatever the mode of transport. As the poster above said, the roads were originally built for horses, if you encounter them on the road, adjust your driving accordingly. Your time can't be so valuable that a minute or two of a delay is such a big deal?!

Please do explain this...I cant wait!! So they pull out in front of oncoming traffic yet the driver of the car is in the wrong??

So, youre theory in principle if applied would mean that i come to a junction and proceed to pull out in front of a car and an accident is caused...its grand, the other person is repsonsible!!

The Dagda

kopfan77 wrote: »

Please do explain this...I cant wait!! So they pull out in front of oncoming traffic yet the driver of the car is in the wrong??

So, youre theory in principle if applied would mean that i come to a junction and proceed to pull out in front of a car and an accident is caused...its grand, the other person is repsonsible!!

Tbh if you can't see the difference between the example I was commenting on, and your example, I'm not going to spend the time explaining it to you.

I will, however, give you a couple of clues to help you along;

1. "causing me to nearly" does not equate to "accident is caused".

2. If you encounter a horse on the road, and don't adjust your driving accordingly, you're foolish.

3. A roundabout is not the same as a junction.

Hope that helps. :rolleyes:

kopfan77

The Dagda wrote: »

Tbh if you can't see the difference between the example I was commenting on, and your example, I'm not going to spend the time explaining it to you.

I will, however, give you a couple of clues to help you along;

1. "causing me to nearly" does not equate to "accident is caused".

2. If you encounter a horse on the road, and don't adjust your driving accordingly, you're foolish.

3. A roundabout is not the same as a junction.

Hope that helps. :rolleyes:

Still doesnt explain why being caused to nearly crash is the drivers fault as you stated?? I have had instances where I am driving along legally, carefully and safely when the actions of another have caused me to nearly crash....again, explain how this is my fault or in this case the fault of the driver of the car....nonsense statement!! So, your pointless clues again do not answer what I asked

If you'd put as much thought and effort into your initial response maybe you wouldnt come across so patronising