Irish Gun Control - To Strict?

Witcher

Reindeer wrote: »

Do we want to remove this option from the local constabulary?

I think the Gardai should definitely have a say in who can have a firearm, even now if someone is refused there is a process which they can go through...supers can't just ban firearms in their district. I know a lot of people who would get a clean bill of mental health, have no previous convictions etc but they are not the type of person that should hold a firearm, they just don't have the mentality for it and no club or farmer would allow them to shoot on their range/land and so they can't get a firearm here. If you start introducing 'rights' to firearms, and purchasing without legitimate reasons etc these people would have access to firearms and that is crazy. I think all shooters here would have issues with some aspects of the licencing process here but I think we would all agree that some people should not have access to a gun and by and large the licencing process here achieves that aim.

Consistency in the application of legislation is what shooters here ask for I think without having to go to the Firearms Policy Unit and the courts.

LennyK

To strict or not to strict, that is the misspelling:rolleyes:

Personally, I think we're doing already with the gun laws we have, thanks very much.

Martyn1989

codex1 wrote: »

"common thing" - what thing?

Fact is, I cannot legally buy high powered sporting firearms in Ireland that I can buy over here, which I object to & is the whole point here.

Ive been reading this thread and can't read anymore, but I do think thats a ridiculous point and cannot understand why your so annoyed you can't buy some automatic machine gun in a country you don't live in.

Guy:Incognito

PieForPi wrote: »

...in the USA.



A murder rate 4x ours, Britains and Canada's. Note that. For every one person that dies of intentional homicide here, 4 die in the US. That is obscene. They can keep it and their f*cking "heroes" who use them to be honest.
.

Dont Canada have smilar gun laws to the US? So it's not the guns or the laws then surely?

Pkiernan

Neither me nor my 19 guns have ever harmed a living soul.

Never been in trouble with the law, and 1 ticket in 23 years of driving.

Did have a time where 3 gangbangers went to mug me at knifepoint in California.
I showed them my holstered Glock and they ran off.

Can't help but think what would have happened otherwise.

codex1

Martyn1989 wrote: »

Ive been reading this thread and can't read anymore, but I do think thats a ridiculous point and cannot understand why your so annoyed you can't buy some automatic machine gun in a country you don't live in.

Obviously you have not read very much of this thread, multiple times I said I am against any fully automatic guns, the sporting guns I most enjoy here I would have a very hard time buying in Ireland, if at all. That's the problem....o and just because I'm not in Ireland right now, does not mean I won't be coming back in the future.

codex1

Pkiernan wrote: »

Neither me nor my 19 guns have ever harmed a living soul.

Never been in trouble with the law, and 1 ticket in 23 years of driving.

Did have a time where 3 gangbangers went to mug me at knifepoint in California.
I showed them my holstered Glock and they ran off.

Can't help but think what would have happened otherwise.

Most people I knew growing up in Ireland have never fired, held or even seen a working firearm in person & so their is a little bit of ignorance, fear & "all guns are bad" mentality at play. I was sort of the same mindset until I became familiar with their use & began to realize....hey these are really cool & can be a lot of fun.

Yes guns are dangerous, but so is a breakfast roll......way more so given the high numbers dying from heart disease in Ireland.

In many of the earlier posts on this thread quiet a few people seem to have this idea that everyone here is "packing", there are metal detectors in every school, gun stores are on every street corner & people only buy guns to shoot each other (which apparently is a daily part of life for us living in the US). This is understandable given not only the recent shooting events, but also the hype the media generates on this issue.

I've spent plenty of time in Miami, LA, Oakland and never felt worried about being affected by gun violence. This odds of something kicking off are tiny & its paranoid to let this effect your thinking.

micosoft

codex1 wrote: »

Some of the common themes in the pro-ownership argument are:

1. Strict gun control laws means that only criminals are then armed, law abiding citizens are unable to defend themselves. Lives could have been saved during the recent tragic shootings in the US, if just one armed & trained individual was present.

No. The difference is that the crazy people (he did not have a criminal history) are armed in the states and thus kill many people. You contradict your argument given this incident/s occur almost only in the US and not in Europe where gun control is in place. Finally I don't want to arm myself to go to the cinema. Maybe thats just me.
As for criminals, they will just uparm and become more violent. All things being equal (same gun etc) the criminal will come out on top.

codex1 wrote: »

2. If a home-invasion occurs while you are at home, you can call the police, however while they are at best minutes away, seconds count during an a situation like this & you are on your own.

The evidence is categorical on this. Guns at home are 4 times more likely to be used in accidential shootings at home. http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunviolence/gunsinthehome/
That means you are four more times likely to shoot one of your family members than a "criminal". The Gardai are unarmed if you haven't noticed. As are the criminals that rob homes 99% of the time.

codex1 wrote: »

3. A ban strips your rights & freedom, if you are not a criminal, are responsible & enjoy guns then why should you be prevented from legally owning them. Being responsible means extensive mandatory training & passing a exam before being issued with a licence. Committing a felony over here strips you of the right to ever legally own a gun, as it should be.

What right? You have no right to bear arms in Ireland. It's dubious in the US as well ( The second amendment IN FULL says: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" which to mind my means something like the FCA. The people are clear in Ireland, we don't want nuts, even well trained nuts, wondering around with guns. BTW, you might find this incredible, but criminals rarely abide by gun control laws so banning them from owning guns does not work. That's kinda why they are called outlaws ya know!

codex1 wrote: »

Just wondering what people back home think about the current gun laws & the limitations such as the blanket ban on handguns, rifles limited to .22 & the slow / non-transparent process associated with obtaining a firearms licence?

I think gun control is just right here. I had a rifle for a couple of years as I own land and had deer. When I stopped I got rid of the rifle because I had no need for it. The really good reason for it being non-transparent is to let the Gardai refuse the oddball nutjobs that apply for gun licences on a regular basis. You need to have a good reason to own a gun (land) and your reason just doesnt make it. I find people who are "into guns" and go to the firing range to relax just a tad weird. Why don't you take up airsoft or something....

Witcher

micosoft wrote: »

I find people who are "into guns" and go to the firing range to relax just a tad weird. Why don't you take up airsoft or something....

:rolleyes:

People have interests that differ from your own..shocker.

PieForPi

codex1 wrote: »

Yes guns are dangerous, but so is a breakfast roll......way more so given the high numbers dying from heart disease in Ireland.

Check it out. Dustin Hoffman, 'Rain Man,' look retarded, act retarded, not retarded. Counted toothpicks, cheated cards. Autistic, sho'. Not retarded. You know Tom Hanks, 'Forrest Gump.' Slow, yes. Retarded, maybe. Braces on his legs. But he charmed the pants off Nixon and won a ping-pong competition. That ain't retarded. Peter Sellers, "Being There." Infantile, yes. Retarded, no. You went full retard, man. Never go full retard.

Manic Moran

micosoft wrote: »

All things being equal (same gun etc) the criminal will come out on top.

There are plenty of instances where such is not the case. They just tend not to be particularly well advertised.

codex1 wrote: »

The evidence is categorical on this. Guns at home are 4 times more likely to be used in accidential shootings at home. http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/gunviolence/gunsinthehome/
That means you are four more times likely to shoot one of your family members than a "criminal".

1) I see no reason to be held accountable for the stupidity or incompetence of others. May as well prohibit alcohol because some idiots can't figure out the concept of "don't drink and drive"

2) Be as cautious of reports from the Brady Campaign as I suspect you might be of reports from the NRA.

The Gardai are unarmed if you haven't noticed. As are the criminals that rob homes 99% of the time.

It's the 1% that worries most. And the parts of the 99% where the burglar is unarmed but still unfriendly.

What right?. It's dubious in the US as well ( The second amendment IN FULL says: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" which to mind my means something like the FCA.

That argument is a non starter in the US. It is in no way dubious. Firstly US law has for decades included people who have never taken an oath or put on a uniform as part of the militia. Secondly, as of a few years ago the highest court of the country has stated that every US citizen has the right to a functional firearm absent disqualiifiers. Though this is not relevant to the topic, I mention it to correct your misconception.

I find people who are "into guns" and go to the firing range to relax a tad weird

I could say the same about people who jump out of aeroplanes, are into Cosplay, voluntarily get beat up in the boxing ring or actually enjoy cooking. I'm not going to disapprove, though.

NTM

MadsL

micosoft wrote: »

No. The difference is that the crazy people (he did not have a criminal history) are armed in the states and thus kill many people. You contradict your argument given this incident/s occur almost only in the US and not in Europe where gun control is in place.

Yep, rampage killers only happen in the US. Oh wait, apart from this long list;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

And if you are keeping score, a bad idea in my view, but Norway tops the list. You have to get to #5 before you see an American event, and Seung-Hui Cho wasn't American.

http://www.spreekillers.ch/

Fuinseog

Pkiernan wrote: »

Neither me nor my 19 guns have ever harmed a living soul.

Never been in trouble with the law, and 1 ticket in 23 years of driving.

Did have a time where 3 gangbangers went to mug me at knifepoint in California.
I showed them my holstered Glock and they ran off.

Can't help but think what would have happened otherwise.

and padraig Nally showed frog ward his shotgun and had to serve time in prison, although the liberals had to admit that Frog was not making a social call.

in this country the guards will only do something when the knife is sticking out of your body.

Fuinseog

folks highlight gun violence in america and Dunblane is often forgotten about.

Witcher

Fuinseog wrote: »

folks highlight gun violence in america and Dunblane is often forgotten about.

It's the frequency at which it happens in the US that gets attention. Look at the list linked above; 2 in the top 10 spree killings were in the US, 4 in the top 20, 15 in the top 50 and 27 in the top 100.

Dyr

Fuinseog wrote: »

folks highlight gun violence in america and Dunblane is often forgotten about.

Dunblane?

People sh*te on about the US while handily forgetting that a fella killed 11 with a rifle in the UK two years back. Thats the same UK that has some of the tightest gun laws in the west.

codex1

Fuinseog wrote: »

and padraig Nally showed frog ward his shotgun and had to serve time in prison, although the liberals had to admit that Frog was not making a social call.

in this country the guards will only do something when the knife is sticking out of your body.

A lot of people where are arguing that 99% of home invasions in Ireland happen without the burger being armed & thus there is no need to own a gun for self defense in the home, this is very short sighted & illogical to me.

So if I wake up in the night & find some scumbag stealing my prized possessions, I am what.... supposed to hide under the bed, call the police who may or may not show up and pray he is not the 1%? What about my kids who are sleeping at the other end of the house - do you suggest I abandon them & hope the gang who are ripping my house apart are nice dudes / won't harm them?

The suggestion of using a hammer, golf club or some chuck norris kung fu skills to protect ones family instead of a gun is just crazy - this argument implies that I should have to engage in close quater combat with an intruder & accept the increased risks....also, what if their is more than one of them? The sound of a pump-action shotgun racking is unmistakable, even if this fails I still have the option to fire a round into a ceiling / wall (of course - knowing what is on the otherside of that wall first!) as a warning before having to even see them, I'd wager either of this actions would make most burglars run like hell....leaving my property intact & family safe. Bottom line - the assailant has made to choice to attack & terrorise my family, not me. I don't care what his issues or sad background story is - I care about my family.

Especially in rural Ireland, burglars operate with total freedom - they have no fear of breaking into houses multiple times over suggestive years, even if they know the 'haul' won't be substantial there is very little disincentive for them, this is not acceptable yet passive individuals here have claimed "its insured, no big deal"....no big deal if your happy to return to a destroyed house, fight with insurance companies over the value of your property, have your family terrorized and pay spiraling insurance premiums every year.

As I've previously stated, my primary motivation behind seeing more relaxed gun laws is to be able to acquire a wider variety of sporting firearms & to make the process more transparent.

jimmycrackcorm

Jimmycrackcorm0447161]Dunblane?

People sh*te on about the US while handily forgetting that a fella killed 11 with a rifle in the UK two years back. Thats the same UK that has some of the tightest gun laws in the west.[/QUOTE]

You must have skipped the previous post but surely that also means the laws aren't strict enough?


Strangely its the mass killers who have access to legal guns that are pointed out, yet it's criminals with illegal guns who aren't going on public killing sprees.

codex1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Jimmycrackcorm0447161]Dunblane?

People sh*te on about the US while handily forgetting that a fella killed 11 with a rifle in the UK two years back. Thats the same UK that has some of the tightest gun laws in the west.

You must have skipped the previous post but surely that also means the laws aren't strict enough?[/QUOTE]

Since when does lack of access to firearms prevent a lunatic from killing people?

A hand full of guys killed 2,996 & injured more than 6,000 on 9/11 with nothing more than a few box-cutters & a few months of flying lessons. Your argument does not wash.

Dyr

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Jimmycrackcorm0447161]Dunblane?

People sh*te on about the US while handily forgetting that a fella killed 11 with a rifle in the UK two years back. Thats the same UK that has some of the tightest gun laws in the west.

You must have skipped the previous post but surely that also means the laws aren't strict enough?


Strangely its the mass killers who have access to legal guns that are pointed out, yet it's criminals with illegal guns who aren't going on public killing sprees.[/QUOTE]


It means that legislating against readily available hardware is retarded

MadsL

Blay wrote: »

It's the frequency at which it happens in the US that gets attention. Look at the list linked above; 2 in the top 10 spree killings were in the US, 4 in the top 20, 15 in the top 50 and 27 in the top 100.

In a country with the same population as the entirety of Europe.

9 in the top 25 were European countries, compared to 5 in the US.

12 in the top 50 were European countries compared to 15 in the US, not a mile away from the US figures.

codex1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Jimmycrackcorm0447161]
You must have skipped the previous post but surely that also means the laws aren't strict enough?


Strangely its the mass killers who have access to legal guns that are pointed out, yet it's criminals with illegal guns who aren't going on public killing sprees.

So by your logic, its OK for criminals to be armed because they are just using guns for crime - but it is not OK for me to be able to defend myself against them when I am the victim of that crime?

See my post about 9/11 - lunatics don't need access to guns for commit mass murder.

Martyn1989

codex1 wrote: »

Obviously you have not read very much of this thread, multiple times I said I am against any fully automatic guns, the sporting guns I most enjoy here I would have a very hard time buying in Ireland, if at all. That's the problem....o and just because I'm not in Ireland right now, does not mean I won't be coming back in the future.

I only read as far as your post I quoted, with regards to it being hard to get your guns here, so what? You can stay there with them or come home, your choice. You have no right or reason to have those guns here, sport is a vague reason IMO even with regards to heavily regulated low-caliber guns. Fact is their dangerous, and people by nature are panicky and irrational and even intensive training will not rid people of that.

Back to the sporting point, forget hunting with a rifle, if you want to impress do it with a bow and arrow...... that would be cool :cool:

MadsL

Martyn1989 wrote: »

forget hunting with a rifle, if you want to impress do it with a bow and arrow...... that would be cool :cool:

Aren't bow and arrows dangerous, and people, y'know...panicky and sh*t?

Martyn1989

MadsL wrote: »

Aren't bow and arrows dangerous, and people, y'know...panicky and sh*t?

Yes but it takes alot more training, skill, practice and accuracy to take a deer down with one. Guns are killing machines.

MadsL

Martyn1989 wrote: »

Yes but it takes alot more training, skill, practice and accuracy to take a deer down with one. Guns are killing machines.

I think you kinda missed my point.

Martyn1989

MadsL wrote: »

I think you kinda missed my point.

Or did you not make one? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the bow and arrow thing was a light hearted after thought, I'm glad thats the only part of the post you disagree with.

MadsL

Martyn1989 wrote: »

Or did you not make one? :rolleyes:

Seriously though, the bow and arrow thing was a light hearted after thought, I'm glad thats the only part of the post you disagree with.

I don't even know where to begin.

SocSocPol

Ireland has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. Ireland has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, simples.
There is no need, other than for legitimate hunting reasons, why anyone should have access to guns.

Fuinseog

Blay wrote: »

It's the frequency at which it happens in the US that gets attention. Look at the list linked above; 2 in the top 10 spree killings were in the US, 4 in the top 20, 15 in the top 50 and 27 in the top 100.

people hear what they want to hear. americans are supposedly gun mad just like they are supposedly stupid, but having a gun for home defence is okay with me. likewise using it as a deterrent against muggers is fine by me.
this country is a muggers paradise as they know the victim is unlikely to be carrying pepper spray or a gas pistol.

arm the guards. most police are armed.

in this country people are paranoid about guns. Joe duffy and his powerful lobby are working against airosft guns. you actually need a firearms cert for a blackpowder musket.

Fuinseog

SocSocPol wrote: »

Ireland has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. Ireland has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, simples.
There is no need, other than for legitimate hunting reasons, why anyone should have access to guns.

murder rate in this country is high enough. despite the gun control criminals get their hands on anything they want.

MadsL

SocSocPol wrote: »

Ireland has some of the strictest gun control laws in the world. Ireland has one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, simples.

Do you really, really want me to point out the logical errors here?

Let me clue you in...Switzerland.

There is no need, other than for legitimate hunting reasons, why anyone should have access to guns.

Ireland should not compete in shooting sports then huh?

crazy cabbage

Fuinseog wrote: »

people hear what they want to hear. americans are supposedly gun mad just like they are supposedly stupid, but having a gun for home defence is okay with me. likewise using it as a deterrent against muggers is fine by me.
this country is a muggers paradise as they know the victim is unlikely to be carrying pepper spray or a gas pistol.

arm the guards. most police are armed.

in this country people are paranoid about guns. Joe duffy and his powerful lobby are working against airosft guns. you actually need a firearms cert for a blackpowder musket.

I for one am not paranoid about guns. Never seen a gun before and am from country. Living in city now though.

Why would i be paranoid about guns when i know that there is sweet **** all of them out there

ECO_Mental

MadsL wrote: »

In a country with the same population as the entirety of Europe.

9 in the top 25 were European countries, compared to 5 in the US.

12 in the top 50 were European countries compared to 15 in the US, not a mile away from the US figures.

"Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it. Higher rates are found in developing countries and those with political instability" ^ a b c d Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 3". Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ISBN 0-309-09124-1.


Forget about killing sprees they are just a freak that happen from time to time every where, you cant stop those people just freaking out like yer man in Norway. The yanks like to bring this up that the biggest killing sprees are in europe.

BUT its the person who is drunk one night at home who just got sacked from work has a couple of guns at home and then drives over to his boss and shoots him. This happens every day in america, forget about the killing sprees its all about the husband shooting the wife, the neighbor old boss etc. You only have to look at "Gold Rush" on the Discovery channel. A couple of the lads had a fight at work and one of them then goes off and get his M16 and squares up to the other fellow. Whats that all about???

Its too late for America now, but we cant go there.

Sky King

No they are not too strict. It's easy peasy to get a gun in Ireland once you meet the right criteria.

MadsL

ECO_Mental wrote: »

"Gun-related death rates in the United States are eight times higher than they are in countries that are economically and politically similar to it. Higher rates are found in developing countries and those with political instability" ^ a b c d Committee on Law and Justice (2004). "Chapter 3". Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review. National Academy of Science. ISBN 0-309-09124-1.

A tad selective from that study. Same source says (Page 54)

However, as noted earlier, the level of nongun homicide is much higher in the United States than it is in other countries. A high level of violence may be a cause of a high level of firearms availability instead of the other way around. Further work with better measures and more complete samples might be useful; for now this literature can be considered suggestive but not conclusive.

Forget about killing sprees they are just a freak that happen from time to time every where, you cant stop those people just freaking out like yer man in Norway. The yanks like to bring this up that the biggest killing sprees are in europe.

And I was was posting just to show that they do happen everywhere.

BUT its the person who is drunk one night at home who just got sacked from work has a couple of guns at home and then drives over to his boss and shoots him. This happens every day in america, forget about the killing sprees its all about the husband shooting the wife, the neighbor old boss etc.

Equally there are countries where drunk driving is much more socially acceptable (Ireland used to be one of them) and people get pissed and kill innocent people.

You only have to look at "Gold Rush" on the Discovery channel. A couple of the lads had a fight at work and one of them then goes off and get his M16 and squares up to the other fellow. Whats that all about???

No idea what this is supposed to prove.

Its too late for America now, but we cant go there.

Visa issues?

Witcher

Fuinseog wrote: »

you actually need a firearms cert for a blackpowder musket.

So what? Its a firearm so you need licence for it...a restricted one to be specific. If you're using it in re-enactments etc then thats your legitimate reason and you'll get a licence for it, if you just want to buy it for a laugh and throw it in the corner then you won't and rightly so.

AeoNGriM

No. (relatively) Strict control in Ireland = little gun crime, no massacres. (relatively) Lax control in the US = rampant gun crime, 1 massacre per month.

Problem, logic?

Sky King

AeoNGriM wrote: »

No. (relatively) Strict control in Ireland = little gun crime, no massacres. (relatively) Lax control in the US = rampant gun crime, 1 massacre per month.

Problem, logic?

Lax control in Switzerland => Low gun crime

Witcher

Sky King wrote: »

Lax control in Switzerland => Low gun crime

The Swiss situation is unique, it has limited gun control but the system is different to the US.

AeoNGriM

Sky King wrote: »

Lax control in Switzerland => Low gun crime

Switzerland, land of Toblerones and home of the cuckoo clock

Ireland, land of alcoholics and home of the begrudger

Now, who would you NOT want to arm out of these two nations?

Leftist

AeoNGriM wrote: »

Switzerland, land of Toblerones and home of the cuckoo clock

Ireland, land of alcoholics and home of the begrudger

Now, who would you NOT want to arm out of these two nations?

This.

Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated. It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.

garv123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIpLd0WQKCY

MadsL

Leftist wrote: »

This.

Switzerland is one of the world's richest countries, but has remained relatively isolated. It has none of the social problems associated with gun crime seen in other industrialised countries like drugs or urban deprivation.

Perhaps because the Swiss provide free heroin to its drug addicts?

Guy:Incognito

Again, surely Canads is the one to use for comparison to america?Similar laws, yet much lower gun crime and killings while being a similar people. Ergo, guns are not the issue.

MadsL

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Again, surely Canads is the one to use for comparison to america?

According to Michael Moore, yes.

Guy:Incognito

MadsL wrote: »

According to Michael Moore, yes.

I'm not about to go using Michael Moore in my arguements, but if the problem was that people have guns, surley the Canadians would be killing each other in the same numbers as in the US?

MadsL

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'm not about to go using Michael Moore in my arguements, but if the problem was that people have guns, surley the Canadians would be killing each other in the same numbers as in the US?

Yes, they are a bit strange in that 75% of their violent crime does not involve firearms, yet have a similar rates of ownership.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008002/article/c-g/c-g-4-eng.gif

However, it is not clear if this is cultural or due to restrictive gun laws on pistols for instance.

In Canada, firearms essentially fall into one of three categories: prohibited, restricted or non-restricted. In general, prohibited firearms include assault pistols, short-barreled handguns and combat shotguns, and are only permissible for certain exempted personnel such as military or peace officers. Most handguns are classified as restricted firearms, while rifles and shotguns normally fall within the category of non-restricted.

In order to own or possess a firearm or to purchase ammunition, an individual must hold a valid firearms license under the Firearms Act. An applicant must undergo screening provisions which include the completion of a multi-page form with a variety of questions concerning the applicant's personal and criminal history, personal references, and a mandatory 28-day waiting period.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2008002/article/10518-eng.htm

If anything Switzerland/Canada demonstrate that is is impossible to say "Because X therefore Y" in relation to gun ownership.

Mickeroo

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I'm not about to go using Michael Moore in my arguements, but if the problem was that people have guns, surley the Canadians would be killing each other in the same numbers as in the US?

Canada only has about 10% of the population of the US.

I think Irish gun laws are spot on, people can still pursue shooting as a hobby without being able to carry a weapon around in public.

kingtiger

Mickeroo wrote: »

I think Irish gun laws are spot on, people can still pursue shooting as a hobby without being able to carry a weapon around in public.

yes I agree

but I would still like to go to a controlled firing range range and rent say an AK-47 with a few hundred rounds and let fly at some targets