Landlord wants to keep deposit

thunderthing

Hi,

I recently come across a problem with my landlord.

When we moved in there were no problems. The house seemed fine, there didn't appear to be damages. I didn;t think to take pictures of the place, but in retrospect, I should have. The lease was for one year.

THere were a few problems during the tenancy, mostly revolving around my bank account, which made things like rent arrive a bit late (largely, beyond my control). However, after he lease had expired and once we moved out, all rent had been paid.The problem arose with the deposit.

The landlord was originally quite aloof, he lives abroad, and a family member took it upon herself to ensure the dwelling was in good order. We only contacted the owner through email, but often dealt with the family memeber as well.

There were a couple of problems throughout the lease involvnig refuse (once the landlord emailed to complain, we cleared the refuse) and smoking in the apartment (there was no more smoking after the landlord wrote to us, saying we should cease). There was also one noise complaint - from the neighbours upstairs - but we dealt with that personally.

The problem arose once I began to request deposit return. The landlord had some issues, and some seemingly exorborant costs with them.l

1. cigarette burns on the carpet. we have claimed responsibility for. it was a very old carpet, but were quite willing to replace it if necessary. I expect this would cost in the region of 200 euros for the space it was. Frankly I believe that, due to the fact the carpet was very worn, it should be less, but, as far as I know, the law is not with me on this matter.

2. there was a cracked window pane. the window in question was one of the old-style windows such as this (http://i-cdn.apartmenttherapy.com/uimages/at/0727_gq03a.jpg) which open and close with force. A small crack in the window was made early in the lease and over the course of our stay in the premesis, grew. The landlord requested the window be replaced. We agreed, as it occurred during our tenancy. I have been in contact with people who perform window-replacing tasks, I expected the cost to be at most 60 euros,.

3. The landlord replaced a window which was not cracked or broken. It was in my room and I opened it about 3 times at most throughout our tenancy. It could not have been cracked. The only possible way the damage could have occured is due to the paint being removed on the normal opening action of the wnidow. We were charged 170 euros.

4. Cleaning. The house was in a good state apart from the above issues. We were charged 100 euro for this. There were two things which had not been cleaned upon our return after the lease had expired to remove some extra belongings (the oven, some marks upon the hallway wall). However, these were cleaned once we returned to retrieve the belongings and remove the extra belongings, We were charged 100 euro for this.

As a result of these charges, the landlord appears to have taken 850 euros from us. Frankly I believe this is well beyond the appropriate amount.

I'm considering filing a dispute with the PRTB, just wondering if I have a case with the landlord, or if I should just drop it.

Thanks.

djimi

The landlord must provide full invoices/receipts for everything that he wishes to deduct. Furthermore, he cannot "improve" the accomodation while putting something right; in the case of the carpet if it was an old carpet to begin with he cannot go out and replace it with a brand new expensive one with money from your deposit.

I would definately take issue with the replaced window and the cleaning. First thing to do is to ask for full invoices/receipts for all the work carried out. The landlord cannot deduct for work that they carry out themselves, or for work that they do not have a receipt for.

goingsolo

Lesson learned for the future- always take pics on the day you move in to a rented property. Best suggestion IMO is to talk to him, and try to deal with rationally rather than getting into a screaming match and everybody threatening legal action on each other!

Threshold and PRTB are the way to go if you feel hard done by but will take a long time to sort out. The PRTB are truely an awful organisation so expect long delays!

Has your rent been late on occasions? Check your lease re this, lots of leases have a Clause in them stating a penalty can be charged for late payments.

I help some friends (and others!) who are not in the area with their properties, collect rent, inspect the houses etc. Look after a few dozen places in total.

One thing I have found, a landlord will 90% of the time say "it was perfect when ye moved in" and the tenant will, again normally say "it was like that when I got it!"

Best option to get a speedy resolution; tell him you'll fix the widow, carpet, re clean etc and then he can reinspect.

If he's sound, he'll agree with that, but you need to agree a quick timeline so he can re-let (presuming this is the case)

One thing- if you were aware the window was broken, and seem to acknowledge the cleaning bill, why not sort it before movin out rather than debating after moving out!? I don't mean to say you should have etc but it's the one thing that always annoys me!

Had a group of guys a few years back complaining about cleaning costs, and damages (showed them receipts for all) saying they could have done it for 1/2 the cost... DO THE F****NG thing Before you move out then!!

(sorry, didn't mean to rant.. Been a long week!)

odds_on

Did you receive and sign an Inventory listing all the furniture, its condition and the condition of the property (including all furniture, floors and floor coverings, walls, ceilings paintwork when you moved in? If you did not, then landlord will have great difficulty in proving to the PRTB that you caused any of the damage - apart from that which you have not denied.

1. cigarette burns on the carpet. we have claimed responsibility for. it was a very old carpet, but were quite willing to replace it if necessary. I expect this would cost in the region of 200 euros for the space it was. Frankly I believe that, due to the fact the carpet was very worn, it should be less, but, as far as I know, the law is not with me on this matter.

As djimi says, the landlord cannot claim for improvements - he cannot charge you for a new carpet when it was already several years old.

Now you know why so many leases prohibit smoking within the property.

Having established the costs of the "damage beyond normal wear and tear", you should advise the landlord that you will be making a claim for the return of "the unjustifiably retained portion" of your deposit + damages for retaining it (inconvenience, stress etc). In many cases, the award for damages against a landlord is certainly in the 100s of euros and should also be claimed for.

Respondent Landlord shall pay the total sum of € 650 to the Applicant Tenant, within 14 days of the date of issue of this Order, being the entire unjustifiably retained security deposit of € 450.00 and damages of € 200.00

Furthermore, if the landlord resides abroad, and you have not been advised of an agent to look after his affairs, the tenant should with-hold 20% of the rent and forward it to the Revenue.

I presume that the tenancy is registered with the PRTB?

thunderthing

Thanks for the response lads, this is extremely helpful. I just realised I didn't specify the charges properly. He said we are charged €102 for the front window, €170 for the back (unbroken) window, and €100 for cleaning. He also stated that he hadn't yet found a carpet, but that if recarpeting was his only option, then we would have no deposit return. That amounts to €370 for windows and cleaning, and €480 for a new carpet.

The property is indeed registered with the PRTB.

goingsolo wrote: »

Lesson learned for the future- always take pics on the day you move in to a rented property. Best suggestion IMO is to talk to him, and try to deal with rationally rather than getting into a screaming match and everybody threatening legal action on each other!

It would be ideal if this were possible. However, when I last spoke with his sister, she was extremely rude, for instance, when I questioned how long deposit return would take, she essentially said, "I will get back to you whenever I like" and then hung up. Similarly, the landlord's emails tend to be filled with smart comments and the like. Very unprofessional, but suggests that he's not going to be reasonable with me.

goingsolo wrote: »

Has your rent been late on occasions? Check your lease re this, lots of leases have a Clause in them stating a penalty can be charged for late payments.

The rent was late 2 or 3 times, but the charges he just forwarded to me have not mentioned any charges for the late rent.

goingsolo wrote: »

One thing- if you were aware the window was broken, and seem to acknowledge the cleaning bill, why not sort it before movin out rather than debating after moving out!? I don't mean to say you should have etc but it's the one thing that always annoys me!

I understand what you're saying, and yes I should have done that. What happened was that we cleaned the apartment properly, but then received an email after we had moved out with a list of things to clean, all of which we had done, apart one thing which we had forgotten. When we returned to the property to remedy this, it had already been cleaned.

The broken window we should have replaced ourselves. I suggested to the landlord's agent that we fix it, but she insisted she take care of it. I guess I understand why now.

odds_on wrote: »

Did you receive and sign an Inventory listing all the furniture, its condition and the condition of the property (including all furniture, floors and floor coverings, walls, ceilings paintwork when you moved in? If you did not, then landlord will have great difficulty in proving to the PRTB that you caused any of the damage - apart from that which you have not denied.

Now you know why so many leases prohibit smoking within the property.

Exactly, I won't be making that mistake again. But no, there was no inventory listed on the lease.

My current plan is to request receipts for the items we were charged for, and state we will be filing a claim with the PRTB and requesting the advice of Threshold. If there's anything else that ye think I should do, please let me know.

Like I said before, thanks so much for all the replies, I really appreciate it.

StillWaters

odds_on wrote: »

As djimi says, the landlord cannot claim for improvements - he cannot charge you for a new carpet when it was already several years old.?

If the burns cannot be hidden/mended, and I'm sure OP has tried this, then the LL can charge for a new carpet. What is he meant to do, buy a second hand carpet?

He cannot buy a top of the range wool carpet, but cigarette burns are above wear and tear, and a cheap carpet would cost about €300 inc fitting, for a standard room.

odds_on

StillWaters wrote: »

If the burns cannot be hidden/mended, and I'm sure OP has tried this, then the LL can charge for a new carpet. What is he meant to do, buy a second hand carpet?

He cannot buy a top of the range wool carpet, but cigarette burns are above wear and tear, and a cheap carpet would cost about €300 inc fitting, for a standard room.

The landlord can buy the most expensive carpet that he likes. However, the tenant is only liable for the cost of the old carpet before it was damaged.

If the old carpet cost 500 euros new, and it was expected to last 5 years (its life expectancy) with fair wear and tear. At the end of 3 years' use, the carpet's value is assessed as 200 euros. Thus the landlord cannot claim more than 200 euros. Depreciation is the key word, here.

If the OP makes a claim with the PRTB, this is what the adjudicator will want to know - and which very often the landlord cannot substantiate (the reason most cases are lost by landlords) with original purchase receipts etc. In such a case the PRTB is likely to deny the landlord any compensation for the carpet.

Landlords are assumed to be professionals and should handle their renting in a professional manner - a good knowledge of the RTA 2004, keep a detailed trail of everything in their property, when bought and its life expectancy etc. Failure to do so, will, if there is a claim against them with the PRTB, only lead to them losing a claim, whether they are the applicant or the respondent to a claim.

thunderthing

odds_on wrote: »

The landlord can buy the most expensive carpet that he likes. However, the tenant is only liable for the cost of the old carpet before it was damaged.

If the old carpet cost 500 euros new, and it was expected to last 5 years (its life expectancy) with fair wear and tear. At the end of 3 years' use, the carpet's value is assessed as 200 euros. Thus the landlord cannot claim more than 200 euros. Depreciation is the key word, here.

If the OP makes a claim with the PRTB, this is what the adjudicator will want to know - and which very often the landlord cannot substantiate (the reason most cases are lost by landlords) with original purchase receipts etc. In such a case the PRTB is likely to deny the landlord any compensation for the carpet.

Landlords are assumed to be professionals and should handle their renting in a professional manner - a good knowledge of the RTA 2004, keep a detailed trail of everything in their property, when bought and its life expectancy etc. Failure to do so, will, if there is a claim against them with the PRTB, only lead to them losing a claim, whether they are the applicant or the respondent to a claim.

That makes sense. I'll bring up the issue with Threshold and see what they say. If they advise to take it to the PRTB then I shall. Thanks again lads!