Should Planning Staff be allowed to invest in property

dingding

Should council officials in the planning departments be allowed to invest in property land / or should they be excluded.

Kylo Ren

Hello Hector Salamanca...

whiskeyman

Definitely Atari Jaguar with this one.

No, It would be a conflict of interest

Off course they should, nonsense even to suggest that they shouldn't be allowed to.

admiralofthefleet

no joe

oppenheimer1

No, It would be a conflict of interest

Yes they should be allowed. They should not however be allowed to make decisions which directly or indirectly affect them. That would be a conflict of interest.

Pottler

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Yes they should be allowed. They should not however be allowed to make decisions which directly or indirectly affect them. That would be a conflict of interest.

Which almost never happens here in Ireland. Ever. Much. Like.

starbelgrade

When it comes down to it, the planners in Councils have very little say over the likes of zoning / re-zoning. The big stuff like that comes down to the politicians in the Council.

And zoning an area of land for a specific purpose is really the only way you're going to make a decent bit of money if you're investing in land or property.

So there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed invest in property or land if they so choose.

bernardamaac.

I dont have an opinion

Should be disallowed! my old man went for planning 7 times went to dublin 3 time's over it too, He got rejected because they said they could see our current house from the road which made no sense seeing as it was a small bungalow behind fergus wright's mansion.They also made some point that we could not own a home while building one which is absolute bs so basically we had the be homeless! In the end we sold the field and the bungalow and moved to the city.6 months later we go for a drive. Drive past the bungalow to see extensive work done with a number of extension's and a foundation being made in the field.Some joke seeing as my dad was raised there lived there all his life and could'nt build on his own property just for some random outsider to come in and build.

anniemcl

Is there option: Yes, Because I'm a banker and would starve to death without ripping Ireland off.

Aard

"Council officials" and "planning staff" would find it pretty difficult to influence things in their favour (i.e. raise the value of land owned by them through rezoning, or through Local Area Plans). It's the county/city councillors who make those decisions at the end of the day.

dingding

I dont have an opinion

Would it be possible though that they would have advance notice of where things might be built and would assist in writing development plans.

Gumbo

No, It would be a conflict of interest

dingding wrote: »

Would it be possible though that they would have advance notice of where things might be built and would assist in writing development plans.

No. The first they know of it is when an official planning application goes in or an official pre planning consultation takes place. But by that time somebody is already in ownership of the land and thus has employed the professions required to submit these plans.

Also any land or interest you own within the boundary of the council you work in has to be submitted every January in the form. An affradavit to the DOEHLG.

Politicians and county councillors make the decision on land rezoning not the staff within the department.

snubbleste

Forget rezoning.
Council planners make decisions on the density of housing built and whether or not to grant permission/extension/retention.
It is very very difficult to believe that planners are not getting some sort of kickback when making decisions for example recommending plans for a house be looked at by a recommended private consultant (who happens to be themselves/related) before planning approval.
The amount of times permission is granted for X, then X+Y is built, and Y gets retention permission from planning officals is unbelievable.

Also planners would have advance notice of where a new busy road/shopping centre/school might go in the future and therefore purchase land/housing in the area.

Have you ever seen a poor planning official?

Drumpot

I dont have an opinion

The poll asks if planning staff or elected officials be allowed to invest in property (not just planning staff). .

As far as I am concerned, if you are in a position to have any significant involvement/influence in the planning process of land you should not be allowed to invest in property at any stage during/after holding the post (for a substantial minimal period).

The easiest way to at least limit the dodgy crap that has been going on for decades is by making all zoning of land and the decision making process (including the relevant research into this zoning) public and transparent.

My estate was built in a field that I have found out was called "frog marsh" . It floods practically every year, I dont believe anybody could justify the building of the estate . My local councellor said if there was a proper investigation done on the zoning of land across the country , they would be surprised if there wasnt fraudulent decisions made with regards to land zoning all over the place . And I dont believe it would be limited to elected officials.

A close family member used to be a councellor and said they gave it up (in 80s/90s) cause its so corrupted.

My view is, if in doubt the answer should be no, they shouldnt be allowed invest in property and this should be a legal requirement punishable by the letter of the law if this rule is not followed, with significant penalties. If you know what you are getting into when applying to be a councellor/politician you cant complain when you are given strict procedures to adhere to. Maybe we would get better people in important positions if we limited the imoral or unethical actions that were "technically not breaking any rules"!

Oh, we didnt know we could use taxpayers money to phone competition lines or hire people on expenses allowance . . If in doubt clarify everything and make it clear of the penalty of being caught engaging in obviously unethical practises . .

In summary, if you are in a position to significantly influence the planning process in Ireland, it is a conflict of interest if you are also able to in anyway benefit from it . .

Gumbo

No, It would be a conflict of interest

snubbleste wrote: »

Forget rezoning.
Council planners make decisions on the density of housing built

I thought the DOEHLG do this? Not Council Planners?

snubbleste wrote: »

whether or not to grant permission/extension/retention.

Planning permission is not granted or refuse by one planner, it goes through a system of one planner to a senior then to be signed off by the Planning dept. Manager. Thats a lot of people you would need to be paying off to get permission for your bathrrom extension

snubbleste wrote: »

It is very very difficult to believe that planners are not getting some sort of kickback when making decisions for example recommending plans for a house be looked at by a recommended private consultant (who happens to be themselves/related) before planning approval.

Why would you have plans for a house looked at by a private consultant? Isint that what you employ an architect/Technician/Draughtsman to do?

snubbleste wrote: »

Also planners would have advance notice of where a new busy road/shopping centre/school might go in the future and therefore purchase land/housing in the area.

They would have 3 months notice maybe, you seem to have no understanding of the planning system in general. The applicant for a large shopping centre would invlove the council early on to ease out the requirements in regards to roads, access, exits etc. Also, arent schools exempt from planning, so they wouldnt even come into a council for a planner to get prior notice and your forgetting about the public notices that go in national newspapers, on the site in question and also on the council website, so technically anybody can see this, then go buy a home nearby with the hope to cash in on the upcoming development if possible?

snubbleste wrote: »

Have you ever seen a poor planning official?

yeah ive dealt with some before.


God, you are so far off the mark its unreal, even for Afterhours.

Rigol

Why not just regularly audit their properties and examine the results against decisions they made.

Any increase in value of land/property that ties in with a construction decision they influenced will show up the shleeevenery.

Maybe results and dates could get published. (not full personal audit details - just decision maker + subsequent property value increase)

Maybe the names of councillors involved in the decisions could be listed too.

The above could be a condition of employment.

If someones name keeps coming up, especially alongside a certain councillor the councillor gets the negative pr and maybe a knock on the door.


(then again they'd probably just use a proxy of some sort to hold the properties...corruption is like a national sport at this stage)

Aard

It amuses me when people get so upset with planners. "The planners ruined this area" -- something I'm sure a lot of people have heard said. Sorry, but no. The county councillors ruined the area. They're the ones who zone land (I'm looking at you, Co. Clare!!), and the planners then have to work within those confines. Have you ever wondered why there's a housing estate in the middle of nowhere? That wasn't a planner's doing, at least not directly. It was a councillor. The planners don't really have much say in what gets rezoned, and even if they do there's no guarantee that they'll be listened to. Y'know, the ones with the qualifications -- sure what would they know? Nah, we'll just let the councillors keep rezoning. It's bull, but it's the way it is.

And as for the rich planner / poor planner: most of them working in this country work for the county/city councils, and are hardly on astronomical salaries. The only ones who earn big bucks are consultant planners. Like any consultant, they'll be highly knowledgeable across several complementary fields, and often work out cheaper than trying to do the same work in-house.

corcaigh1

I dont have an opinion

bernardamaac. wrote: »

Should be disallowed! my old man went for planning 7 times went to dublin 3 time's over it too, He got rejected because they said they could see our current house from the road which made no sense seeing as it was a small bungalow behind fergus wright's mansion.They also made some point that we could not own a home while building one which is absolute bs so basically we had the be homeless! In the end we sold the field and the bungalow and moved to the city.6 months later we go for a drive. Drive past the bungalow to see extensive work done with a number of extension's and a foundation being made in the field.Some joke seeing as my dad was raised there lived there all his life and could'nt build on his own property just for some random outsider to come in and build.

****ing scumbags. Id terrorise the ****ers..

Pottler

kceire wrote: »

I thought the DOEHLG do this? Not Council Planners?



Planning permission is not granted or refuse by one planner, it goes through a system of one planner to a senior then to be signed off by the Planning dept. Manager. Thats a lot of people you would need to be paying off to get permission for your bathrrom extension



Why would you have plans for a house looked at by a private consultant? Isint that what you employ an architect/Technician/Draughtsman to do?



They would have 3 months notice maybe, you seem to have no understanding of the planning system in general. The applicant for a large shopping centre would invlove the council early on to ease out the requirements in regards to roads, access, exits etc. Also, arent schools exempt from planning, so they wouldnt even come into a council for a planner to get prior notice and your forgetting about the public notices that go in national newspapers, on the site in question and also on the council website, so technically anybody can see this, then go buy a home nearby with the hope to cash in on the upcoming development if possible?



yeah ive dealt with some before.


God, you are so far off the mark its unreal, even for Afterhours.

No, you are. Maybe you are just naive, but whatever. I've secured a lot of planning permission, whole estates actually, not just one offs. I've had loads of fellow builders make wisecracks about brown envelopes and "how much did that cost you to pay off the boys Pottler"? Actually, I paid off no-one, just hired experts all the way so it was always airtight, but believe me, you are being naive there Kceire. BTW I'm friends with a several County Councillors, one who is now "well known" throughout the land, but we were mates for 20 years before it all kicked off, so to say planning decisions are not "tactical" and are not exploited in advance is nonsense.
I'll give you one tidbit that's concrete whereby a person involved with planning knew a dump was in the offing for an area way in advance of the public and used that information to make some very smart moves, allegedly, ahem. Happened a lot and still happens. Ireland is sadly, a corrupt country, top to bottom, and that's a fact. Trust me.:)

Biggins

No, It would be a conflict of interest

dingding wrote: »

Should council officials in the planning departments be allowed to invest in property land / or should they be excluded.

There is no ways around really stopping them.
If they are not going to, their wives/husbands/boyfriends/girlfriends/business friends are going to fill in for them, maybe as front people.

All we can do is better regulate and make any observing body as capable of doing it job to the best degree.