Mod calibre

Mauser 308

I was asked a question today that I could not answer, so thought I would ask the experts. Will a moderator for a 30 cal work as efficently on a 243 ie noise and kick reduction. Or are you better to get one suited to the exact cal. Thanks in advance.

Cass

A better suited or caliber specific mod would be better.

The idea of a cal. specific mod is that the hole for the bullet to travel through is just large enough to allow it to pass, but not so large as to let the gases escape before the mod has time to allow them to expand/slow down.

What effect that may have is unclear until tested. It could result in diminished noise reduction, inaccuracy, no reduction in recoil etc. Depends on the mod, the difference in calibers the mod is used on, and the round i suppose.

deerhunter1

Ezridax wrote: »

A better suited or caliber specific mod would be better.

The idea of a cal. specific mod is that the hole for the bullet to travel through is just large enough to allow it to pass, but not so large as to let the gases escape before the mod has time to allow them to expand/slow down.

What effect that may have is unclear until tested. It could result in diminished noise reduction, inaccuracy, no reduction in recoil etc. Depends on the mod, the difference in calibers the mod is used on, and the round i suppose.

+1 on that answer, a member on here bought a moderator from reputable dealer for his .308, he thought the hole looked a little too big, on making measurements and enquiries it turned out to be for calibre up to and including 9x57, it done the job noise reduction but the grouping was not great because of the reason Ezridax said above

4200fps

I've a .3 bore T8 on my .243 and she's performing like a dream. To hell with the .25 bore. Waste of money. Pure money racket. The .3 will work 100% on .22 center fires and to be honest I think better. I would not put a .25 bore Moderator on a 243. Well my accuracy is quarter inch groups at 300 yards and its noise reduction seemingly that bit better than my last .25 mod so I cannot fault using .3 mod on a .243 caliber

Cass

Grouping posts moved to their own thread here.

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

I've a .3 bore T8 on my .243 and she's performing like a dream.

I have no doubt it'll work, it's just a matter of how well.

To hell with the .25 bore. Waste of money. Pure money racket.

I don't think it's a money racket, at least not intentionally. There are reasons for having caliber specific mods. I mean the companies that produce mods would have much more time and money involved in R&D than you or me firing a few shots with different mods on. So there has to be something to it.

The .3 will work 100% on .22 center fires and to be honest I think better. I would not put a .25 bore Moderator on a 243.

I would like to see or do a comparison. Have one or two lads with 243's (different makes). Have two mods each, and the same ammo (or maybe an array of different ammo). Then use the .25 mod and .30 mod, and see if the recoil, noise reduction grouping is affected by the larger 30 cal mod.

As i see it the caliber specific or rated mods have to be better otherwise lads using 308/30-06/300 WinMag would be going for 338/50 cal mods instead of the standard 30 cal ones..

4200fps

well to be honest I cannot see what purpose the .25 gives. How I think its a money racket is anyone I know who fired a .3 on any .243 or 223 never complained only said its the way to go. If you have a .3 bore on a 223,220,22-250 you will never have to worry about buying another one if you buy a .308 for example thats why I claim .25 is only a money racket for the mod companys. Its there. Recoil is the same I recon and sound reduction I recon better than my bothers old 223 silenced. On a 243 you won't ever have to worry about the round rubbing of the baffles if it came loose unnoticed. I can't do any thing but praise .3bore moderators on a .243 caliber

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

well to be honest I cannot see what purpose the .25 gives.

The purpose is a more caliber specific suppressor to reduce inaccuracy or other "anomalies" produced by a larger mod.

A suppressor's "job" is to allow the bullet to pass through the mod, with the baffles deflecting the gases, allowing them to expand/cool before leaving the mod. This has the effect of reducing pressure hence felt recoil. A 30cal mod is larger than say a 223 one as the pressures created by the larger case/charge in a 30 cal round are greater than in a smaller .22 cal round. So if a .22 cal round is fired using a 30 cal mod then the pressure decrease is greater than in a caliber specific mod, and results in a slower muzzle velocity.

Also, as said above, if a .22 cal bullet is fired through a 30 cal mod the hole which allows the bullet to travel through the mod is much larger than the actual projectile. This can lead to gases escaping the mod without having being allowed to expand, and cool resulting in no significant recoil reduction, and the bullet exiting unstable causing a "deflection", which creates inaccuracies.

The idea (IMO) of a caliber specific mod is to reduce the amount of problems by making sure the holes are only big enough for the bullet being fired, by having the size of the mod body correct to deal with the pressures, and gases produced by that array of calibers the mod is designed for.

How I think its a money racket is anyone I know who fired a .3 on any .243 or 223 never complained only said its the way to go. If you have a .3 bore on a 223,220,22-250 you will never have to worry about buying another one if you buy a .308 for example thats why I claim .25 is only a money racket for the mod companys.

I have no doubt a larger cal mod on a smaller caliber rifle will work. I doubt anyone would challenge that. My only point is how well.

I mean if you put a 30 cal mod on a .22 rimfire. Would it work. Would the bullet be so slow, the gases allowed to escape without expanding that the bullet actually strikes the mod upon exit or worse again before exiting, causing catastrophic failure of the mod.

Not to mention the fact that larger caliber mods are designed to be bigger, larger, and most times heavier. So having such a mod on a lighter smaller rifle could cause problems for carrying, balance, etc.

Recoil is the same I recon and sound reduction I recon better than my bothers old 223 silenced. On a 243 you won't ever have to worry about the round rubbing of the baffles if it came loose unnoticed. I can't do any thing but praise .3bore moderators on a .243 caliber

A lot of this has to do with each companies design, and use of different types of baffles. Some suppressors simply are better than others. So any perceived noise reduction, recoil reduction is not only suppressor dependent, but also person dependent. By that i mean you can have 10 people, and 10 suppressed rifles. Allow each one to fire each rifle, and then get their opinions separately. You will get different opinions on which is best to fire, which is quieter, etc.

I am not arguing your personal situation. If you believe you are getting as good results with the larger mod then who am i to say you are not. However i am simply trying to explain what i believe is the reason for the different caliber mods, and the perceived advantages of each.

4200fps

I understand where you are coming and I know your not arguing my personal situation but i'm not having any issues like that. There is quite a few I know who are doing what i'm doing and can't complain in any way what so ever. If you use 6.5x55 or .270 for example its still the same thing in a way as they are under .3cal like the .243 is. You should try a .3 bore moderator out on a .243 or 223 for example and you will see how its performance is the very same. I read an article in Sporting Rifle magazine and they claim that the round was gaining greater feet per second with a moderator on. There's quite a few guys out there that use .3 bore mods on their .22 center-fire rifles and have great things to say. There's a few folks on this even as far as I'm aware that use the same.

4200fps

So my point of view is buy a .3 bore moderator if you intend to buy a 22 center-fire or a .243 as in the long run IF you buy a larger caliber like 6.5x55 up to a 30caliber you won't have to fork out 300euros again. I have noticed any second hand .3 cal mods are easier to sell second hand than .25

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

I understand where you are coming and I know your not arguing my personal situation but i'm not having any issues like that. There is quite a few I know who are doing what i'm doing and can't complain in any way what so ever. ......................................There's quite a few guys out there that use .3 bore mods on their .22 center-fire rifles and have great things to say. There's a few folks on this even as far as I'm aware that use the same.

I'm sure they are, and i'm not saying it won't work. What i'm saying is your impression based on your experience will be different to others impressions based on their experiences.

However personal experiences, and impressions don't count as a definitive answer. Not saying you are wrong, and i'm right. Even my assumptions above are based on best guess. The only way to find out for definite would be to run some sort of test.

Have a few rifles, a few mods both 30 cal, and caliber specific, and then set up with a decibel meter, etc. Set up a few targets too. Might as well test accuracy when test firing.

If such a thing could be done it would solve a lot of questions. I'm sure it has been done in some form elsewhere. I rarely adhere to manufacturers specs or results as they have a mission. To sell mods. So some sort of independent test would great. I would like to see the results. If it is the case that there is no measurable difference then it would be some job for the manufacturers to justify the various caliber mods when one would suffice. Likewise if there were differences it would prove why caliber specific mods are better.

4200fps wrote:

If you use 6.5x55 or .270 for example its still the same thing in a way as they are under .3cal like the .243 is

Quite right, however it's a case of minimizing the difference/deviation . I know of some mods that are caliber specific, but they are usually made to order or not as available as the more common calibers.

Also if a .270 has a 30 cal mod on you are looking at a 1mm or so variance in diameter or 0.5mm all around. However a .243, .223, etc would be in the 2-2.5 mm difference. IOW increasing the chances that more gases are pushed out without the mod doing it's job.

4200fps wrote: »

So my point of view is buy a .3 bore moderator if you intend to buy a 22 center-fire or a .243 as in the long run IF you buy a larger caliber like 6.5x55 up to a 30caliber you won't have to fork out 300euros again.

Some manufacturers are already dealing with that issue. Such as Wildcat. Buy one mod, and the various insets. It means you have the ability to thread all your rifles to the same threading as the mod, and with a 2 minute change have multiple caliber mods for less than the price of a new one each time.

I have noticed any second hand .3 cal mods are easier to sell second hand than .25

In fairness that is due to the popularity of the 30 cal rifle more so than the mods ability to work better on smaller calibers.

4200fps

Ezridax its a tricky one but yet very interesting. Nobody seems to know for sure and your idea of testing it out would be most interesting to see as it may well be a 1st time it was ever tried.. It be on the show Myth Busters in time to come lol.
Personally and funny enough I've yet to hear anybody complain that they had bad results of any kind doing this method would you agree?

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

........... I've yet to hear anybody complain that they had bad results of any kind doing this method would you agree?

It's something i never gave much thought to before. So for that reason i couldn't say. I mean i've often asked lads what mod they use, and how they find it, but never has it occurred to me to ask do they use a caliber specific/suitable mod or a larger cal one that does all their rifles.

I know over the years i've had varying degrees of success from mods, but they were caliber suitable/specific, and t was the make/model or design, and the rifle i had it o that caused the issues.

Might add a poll to this thread, and see what we can find out.

Cass

Okay. I've added a poll to the thread with 4 options to the title of the poll.

I think that'll cover all choices without making the options too detailed or over complicating the poll. So if people can vote, and then maybe post where necessary.

So if you click for "No it is not, but it performs well", maybe post a quick description of what mod, make/model, caliber and the caliber rifle it's used on.

This'll be a start, and give us a baseline as to whether 30cal mods work on only 243's or do they work on all calibers, or .25 cal mods work on .223s, .17's etc. fter this we can review, and see if there is a trend, and then narrow down some caliber mods, and the rifles they are used on. Then possibly look into testing some down the road.

I'll kick it off. I voted for Yes, and performs well. Based on the mod i have for the .308 and it being a 30 cal mod. Also the same for the 25 cal i had on my 243, and the .25 cal mod i had on the 223.

slippy wicket

Have an 8mm Sonic 45 on my .243 Ruger.
She is an utterly different beast with it on, as the mod has cut down the barrel hop completely along with a huge drop in sound.

4200fps

so that means from my criteria I click * No it is not, but it performs well.?

Tikkat3

4200fps wrote: »

so that means from my criteria I click * No it is not, but it performs well.?

you should be able to decipher which category you do or dont fall into or maybe there needs to be a 'other' category.

I spoke to a rifle smith about mine and emailed jackson rifles and got the same recommendation from both so I am going with the theory that they knew what they were talking about and advised me correctly.

The rifle is a tikka tactical in .223 and has a flared barrel and both told me the Ase Utra jet-z cqb was the best because for this.

I am very happy with the sound reduction.

Really dont personally think its a money making thing, some barrels wont work well with certain mods and thats a fact so personally I take the advice of those who know more than me.

Cass

Yup.

As in no it's not designed for the caliber rifle i use, but i'm finding no ill affect from using it.

4200fps

Tikkat3 wrote: »

you should be able to decipher which category you do or dont fall into or maybe there needs to be a 'other' category.

I spoke to a rifle smith about mine and emailed jackson rifles and got the same recommendation from both so I am going with the theory that they knew what they were talking about and advised me correctly.

The rifle is a tikka tactical in .223 and has a flared barrel and both told me the Ase Utra jet-z cqb was the best because for this.

I am very happy with the sound reduction.

Really dont personally think its a money making thing, some barrels wont work well with certain mods and thats a fact so personally I take the advice of those who know more than me.

Don't forget Jackson rifles have to make their money. They would rather people buy two mods,one for their .22 and one for their .3 caliber instead of anybody buying one .3 caliber moderator which will do all. Think about it as its common sense. Did you use a .3 moderator on your .223 to see if it worked the very same?

Tikkat3

4200fps wrote: »

Don't forget Jackson rifles have to make their money. They would rather people buy two mods one for their .22 and one for their .3 caliber instead of one buying a .3 caliber moderator which will do all. Think about it as its common sense. Did you use a .3 moderator on your .223 to see if it worked the very same?

not saying you are wrong 4200fps, I am just saying that because of the barrel profile, I accepted the advice of peter jackson and a rifle smith in ireland and I am happy with the sound reduction on it and the fit it excellent.

The length of the gun is another story for me but that is irrelevant to this thread

4200fps

Tikkat3 wrote: »

not saying you are wrong 4200fps, I am just saying that because of the barrel profile, I accepted the advice of peter jackson and a rifle smith in ireland and I am happy with the sound reduction on it and the fit it excellent.

The length of the gun is another story for me but that is irrelevant to this thread

I understand you Tikkat3. Well nobody has yet complained they had any problems with theirs so far

Cass

4200fps wrote: »

Well nobody has yet complained they had any problems with theirs so far

This is why i would like to see some testing done. People's opinions are always biased or based on though/best guess/SWAG, and not actual measurable results.


Even if i could find a similar test done and the results online that would do.

ssl

I put my .308 mod on my friends .222 after reading on here how a guy got his mod drilled so he could shoot both his calibers through it. It dampened the .222's recoil and made it nearly as quite as when using the .222 mod. As for accuracy we didnt use paper but he hit a rabbit size target with it on at 100 yards

Vegeta

I had a .30 cal T8 on my .223 and my brother has the exact same one on his .300 win mag.

We are agreed and friends have even commented on it that the .300 win mag is quieter. Still the .30 cal mod worked fine on the .223, accuracy was grand, recoil was reduced (it's very light anyway) and it was quieter. So they obviously work, but as well as a caliber specific one I'm not sure.

Anecdote does not equal data so I would also love to test this on a range with the proper equipment and a few different rifles/moderators.

Longranger

I have a SAK(.22) on my hmr and it works very well. My mate has .17 wildcat on his and the only difference is that his cost FIVE times the price of mine! :eek:

4200fps

Anybody else test for differences?

zeissman

I have tested a .30 cal and .240 cal jet z compact mod on a 243 rifle.
I also tested .30 cal and 6.5 cal A-tac mod on a 6.5x55 rifle.
In both cases the moderator that matched the calibre was a lot quieter.