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2013 budget preliminaries
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Ireland also has a "lot" of well paid software engineers and the like.
Source
The UK government sees this 8% national average pay premium as even too much and because of collective bargaining, PS workers in the UK (as in Ireland) get the same pay regardless of what region of the UK they live in (London premium excepted) so in some regions the premium compared to an equivalent private sector worker can be double or triple that national average. The UK government is set to introduce local pay bargaining based on postcodes to freeze pay of public servants in poorer regions to allow the premium to be reduced in those regions.
The Irish government meanwhile stands firm behind an agreement that guarantees the much larger public sector premium in Ireland remains! It's like night and day. Anyone with any sense should get out and head to the UK or further afield tbh. The lunatics are running the asylum at home
You will be surprised to know that the Irish Govt has the a similar strategy but instead of feezing pay it cut it by between 12 - 15% and then froze pay for 4 years. I believe the UK Govt were so interested in how the Irish Govt could achieve this wonder that they sent some Treasury guys to Dublin to have a chat to see how the process was achieved.0 -
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All public sector workers since 1995 pay full PRSI to get a social welfare contributory pension upon retirement. This is taken into account when calculating the pension paid to a civil servant.
Eg: A civil servant retires after 40 years of service with a final salary of €35,000. The pension is half the final salary = €17,500.
The social welfare contributory pension is €11,975.60. To bring it up to €17,500, the civil service pension pays an additional €5,524.40. Hardly a king's ransom.
Gold plated pension eh?
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Gold plated pension eh?
Very very low percentage of the public service finishing on a salary of 35K. Interesting how once again the very lowest wage was picked. But once again your premise is wrong, if your only paying 6.5% of your wages with an average salary of 32K(over a career) then that is an excellent pension. As they are only contributing 2K per year. I would love the opportunity of a pension like that.
As i explained earlier if you wanted a pension of 17.5K(which also includes the OAP of 12K) in the private sector (after paying for 35 years)you would have to be paying over 2.5K per year. Even then the pension would not be guaranteed or be indexed based for inflation.
Very easy for some of you to keep coming with the poor mouth if you keep trying to represent everything in the worst possible light. Interesting how you didn't mention teachers who have a pension of 33K which would cost nearly 200 euro a week(10K/annum) in the private market and still not be guaranteed.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/your-binmans-pension-better-than-yours-2853831.html
From above article:
"Despite the recent pensions levy, the State is still drowning in a public sector pensions bill that could be as high as €8bn a year.
This bankrupt country simply cannot afford that bill -- particularly if it comes at the expense of hard-pressed taxpayers who are already sick to the teeth of cutbacks.
A bill like that will make it harder for us to shift the mountain of debt that will hold back economic growth for years. And it can't be justified when three-quarters of the workforce are left high and dry with their pensions."0 -
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Not all of them do, but anywayThere is very little comment on this , while everyone rants about PS pensions which require 40 years service.
Erm, the government is currently borrowing vast sums to pay pensions (amongst other things)The government is in a good position as an employer to provide pensions
Defined benefit pensions are not realistic. Pretty much any private sector defined benefit scheme is now closed to new entrants or completely wound up (or broke). You say defined benefit for PS is ok because the government can just borrow more or tax more to make sure you get your DB payment on top of your already defined state pension. This is grossly unfair as it is not available to anyone outside the PS (with the exceptions of the dieing DB schemes mentioned above) and grossly unfair to the future generations of workers who will get no DB pension who you clearly expect to fund yours.and it makes no sense for try and make people engage with the corrupt and inefficient private pensions industry. There is nothing inappropriate about PS pensions in general, the problem arises with the salaries on which some of these are based and the increasing longevity of the population.
This has been debunked sooooo many times on this forum now it's not even funny any more. Even during the "boom" years, the CSO figures clearly show that PS job competitions were ALWAYS heavily over subscribed. It may provide comfort to you to believe that myth, but it is a myth. PS jobs were sought after, even at the height of the "boom".The existence of these pensions would presumably encourage people into PS jobs and facilitate moderate salaries, but in the boom people had no interest in pensions nor PS jobs.
As I've already said, the state pension is also a gigantic defined benefit scheme that will implode someday. It should be reformed to be more like the German system at the very least, which works thus
(that's just shy of 10% of your gross pay (plus your employer's contribution), EVERY month for your working life to get a pension that is significantly less (assuming 50k gross average salary) than that which you would receive in Ireland for working just 10 years and in many cases having never worked AT ALL)
Ireland needs to wake up at all levels and realise that retirements are fcuking expensive things and somebody has to pay for them.0 -
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Depends how serious the problem is. Barclays Bank has "pulled the rug" from under DB contributors and switched them to DC schemes. They are not alone. IBM did the same. Why should the public sector be shielded from the fact these DB pension schemes are black holes that nobody knows for sure how much they will cost!
Pensioners will have to live with increased risk in the future AND work later in life as people live longer. Peoples' expectations need to move with changing demographics. The taxpayers of tomorrow can't afford DB schemes.
The government at the very least should close all DB schemes to new entrants (including the state pension) and people should be expected to sort out their own retirement plans. The reality is that these pension schemes are totally unsustainable.
A) The fact that a small number of companies have pulled the rug out from under their employees does not make it right, nor does it make it the norm.
The amount that these schemes costs is somewhat predictable (current staffing levels, average mortality and birth rates for new taxpayers are known and can be modelled). This doesn't mean such schemes should be closed, perhaps they should be, but the country is not facing a pensions black hole on the same scale as many other developed European countries largely because Ireland has higher birth rates than many of its EU counterparts. There is however a problem whereby employees not covered by pensions provided by their employers (so most private sector people who started working over the last 15 years) have not made sufficient provisions for their retirement, but this is seperate to the PS pension issue. 0 -
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Neither of us knows how prevalent this is, but when 2 large corporations do it, you can be sure it's common enough practice and will likely become more common.A) The fact that a small number of companies have pulled the rug out from under their employees does not make it right, nor does it make it the norm.
Your whole plan centres around birth rates remaining higher than death rates. Ireland will as sure as night follows day begin to become more like Germany or the Netherlands where birth rates have slowed down and our population pyramid will begin to invert. There's no point waiting until that happens before changing the system to put the onus on the individual to cater for their own retirement. The amount that these schemes costs is somewhat predictable (current staffing levels, average mortality and birth rates for new taxpayers are known and can be modelled). This doesn't mean such schemes should be closed, perhaps they should be, but the country is not facing a pensions black hole on the same scale as many other developed European countries largely because Ireland has higher birth rates than many of its EU counterparts. There is however a problem whereby employees not covered by pensions provided by their employers (so most private sector people who started working over the last 15 years) have not made sufficient provisions for their retirement, but this is seperate to the PS pension issue.
You say these things can be "modelled". I say this is impossible to do with enough accuracy. Baby booms are usually caused by periods of prosperity in developed countries. Ireland's socio-economic system has been altered forever in recent decades: the Catholic Church does not dictate policy any more. People will be having fewer children as contraception is easily available. Just 20 years ago you needed a prescription for condoms!
This will all lead to a reduced birth rate. The current economic climate and ongoing "austerity" will certainly not encourage high birth rates and may serve to only encourage our young work force to leave as they see themselves as the fall guys for a corrupt generation before them, and who could blame them when we have people on here who are happy enough to cut their dole in half (which I agree with) but who also expect them to pay for their pensions in a few short years (which I do not agree with).
Individuals should take care of their own retirement with a subsistence payment being made available to people who are unwilling to do so.0 -
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