We pay the dole of 6 people with our taxes - We're off to the US

Count Dooku

later12 wrote: »

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Yes we are doing OK. But for every extra euro we earn now over half is taken by the taxman. Now that hurts when you work hard to increase your income, only to see it lifted straight out of your pocket. And now they want to go in for more.

Hmm. Not sure this is a particularly credible thread. Here is a table of effective income tax rates using the latest Revenue statistics.



Farewell.

It disturbed by tax breaks, like section 21 etc

Cushie Butterfield

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

So while Noonan is raising taxes, yet again, for hard working people, he can think about how he's going to raise it enough to keep those 6 people on the dole without our income tax. He can also figure out where he's going to make up the money we wont be spending in Ireland every year either.

Perhaps you didn't mean to, but your posts seem to come accross as borderline condescending towards anyone who is or was unfortunate enough to have lost their jobs in recent times. Unemployment payments are not funded by Revenue Dept.which is where our taxes end up.

From your income levels I'm assuming that you both have some sort of college education which resulted in qualifications that have enabled you both to secure & pursue well paid careers, & again I'm assuming that you both received this education free gratus & for nothing? If this is the case then I think it's a bit rich for you to complain about people claiming the dole. If my assumptions are incorrect then please accept my apologies.

Many people earning a lot less than you do have contributed to your education & qualifications, some of whom now find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to claim the dole. Many of these people didn't have the chance to avail of free third level education through no fault of their own.

People's circumstances can change at the turn of a sixpence, so perhaps it might be wise to bear this in mind, & hope that you never have to experience any sort of financial hardship in the future.

Best of look in the USA

liammur

Duiske wrote: »

Can you name the 101 other benefits ? Just give us the 1st 10 you can think of, that will do for a start.

Look, I don't want this to turn into an attack on the welfare system.

Medical cards/rent supplements/fuel allowances/communion & confirmation payments, back to school, household allownaces, the list really is endless.

welfare.ie / citizeninformation.ie to access them.

If welfare payment was just the €188*450,000 unemployed, the welfare bill would be €10bln. It's far in excess of that.

christmas2012

Basic dole = €188
Full dole payment = €188 + ( about 101 other benefits which actually dwarf the basic dole payment).

where are the added 101 extra benefits,i still have to pay for my teeth the medical only covers cleaning of the teeth etc,and extractions and root canals can cost up to 2000 E , there are no 101 extra added benefits - try living on it.

the one thing that bolsters up the dole bill is the quangos like FAS state paid and JOBBRIDGE ,also state paid,did you know also that FAS has a state paid pension?

something you probably didnt know..

ResearchWill

liammur wrote: »

Look, I don't want this to turn into an attack on the welfare system.

Medical cards/rent supplements/fuel allowances/communion & confirmation payments, back to school, household allownaces, the list really is endless.

welfare.ie / citizeninformation.ie to access them.

If welfare payment was just the €188*450,000 unemployed, the welfare bill would be €10bln. It's far in excess of that.

It's closer to 1.2 million people in receipt of some sort of welfare payment figures from 2008 http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2009/Pages/pr060709.aspx

Welfare covers unemployment, disability, sickness and careers allowance to mention just a few also includes old age pension.

liammur

ResearchWill wrote: »

It's closer to 1.2 million people in receipt of some sort of welfare payment figures from 2008 http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2009/Pages/pr060709.aspx

Welfare covers unemployment, disability, sickness and careers allowance to mention just a few also includes old age pension.

That's true, but converesly a lot of the HSE's budget goes towards welfare.

johnnyskeleton

Sometimes I think welfare payments should be limited to thr budget set by prsi payments. When they run out of prsi payments, social welfare should be cut or prsi increased.

Equally, social welfare should be gradient ie after a year reduced, after 2 reduced further etc.

For extreme examples, as set out above, a cap of 30k or so should be fine.

Child benefit and additional dependent welfare for second an subsequent hildren should be less, not more, than the first child.

Cut all extra allowances eg phone and broadband. These are privileges not rights an if people want them they can pay out of their welfare. Internet is often available in public libraries.

No emergency payments where someone has overspent. If they can't afford clothes because they spent their clothes money on other things, tough. If they can't afford food, they can go to vdp or cappuchins.

If there are empty, boarded up council flats in an area these should be put back into use and someone taken off rent allowance.

If someone refuses a house on welfare they don't get another shot at it.

People are not entitled to a three bed house just because they have kids, not with many people stuck in one bed houses and paying the mortgage.

Anyone caught freelancing, making money from crime or defrauding welfare should be cut off in addition to being prosecuted.

Anyone who refuses a job offer within reason loses their benefits, not even if the job is minimum wage.

Etc. There are a million ways to reduce the welfare bill without cutting the basic rate. All this stuff is votewinning stuff because the big opposition to welfare comes when you cut en masse or when you hit people who are recently unemployed by the same amount that you hit those that are long term unemployed.

Welfare is generally a good thing. But it's become too expensive and unwieldy. It is open to fraud and discourages work. Once these issues are addressed, some people will still complain, but I believe you will have a system that most people say is fair and most would subscribe to.

liammur

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Sometimes I think welfare payments should be limited to thr budget set by prsi payments. When they run out of prsi payments, social welfare should be cut or prsi increased.

Equally, social welfare should be gradient ie after a year reduced, after 2 reduced further etc.

For extreme examples, as set out above, a cap of 30k or so should be fine.

Child benefit and additional dependent welfare for second an subsequent hildren should be less, not more, than the first child.

Cut all extra allowances eg phone and broadband. These are privileges not rights an if people want them they can pay out of their welfare. Internet is often available in public libraries.

No emergency payments where someone has overspent. If they can't afford clothes because they spent their clothes money on other things, tough. If they can't afford food, they can go to vdp or cappuchins.

If there are empty, boarded up council flats in an area these should be put back into use and someone taken off rent allowance.

If someone refuses a house on welfare they don't get another shot at it.

People are not entitled to a three bed house just because they have kids, not with many people stuck in one bed houses and paying the mortgage.

Anyone caught freelancing, making money from crime or defrauding welfare should be cut off in addition to being prosecuted.

Anyone who refuses a job offer within reason loses their benefits, not even if the job is minimum wage.

Etc. There are a million ways to reduce the welfare bill without cutting the basic rate. All this stuff is votewinning stuff because the big opposition to welfare comes when you cut en masse or when you hit people who are recently unemployed by the same amount that you hit those that are long term unemployed.

Welfare is generally a good thing. But it's become too expensive and unwieldy. It is open to fraud and discourages work. Once these issues are addressed, some people will still complain, but I believe you will have a system that most people say is fair and most would subscribe to.

Exactly. I don't think you'd a person in the country who thinks €188 is too much, it's all the extras.

kodoherty93

Its not just the basic payment of €204 a week. Social welfare includes free GP visits, educational grants, free TV Licence. The whole package for 2 Adults and 2 Children €30,000 ish tax free

imitation

As a Irish person earning 70k+ you'll probably do well in the US alright, seems they have the most political clout and get there way. But, while the taxes are way more favourable, you get caught on other things, like healthcare which can be around $20-30k a year for a family, massive college fees. In my books the american system seems than you are constantly hit by the hidden costs.

I wouldn't be too keen to live in the US, the fact there is such a massive gap between rich and poor, the gun crime, the hyper-capitalism, the TV that is 50% ads, the horror that is some of the food there and the long working hours puts me right off.

I wouldn't like to fall off the saddle over there, the homeless people aren't on the streets for the fun of it.

ResearchWill

kodoherty93 wrote: »

Its not just the basic payment of €204 a week. Social welfare includes free GP visits, educational grants, free TV Licence. The whole package for 2 Adults and 2 Children €30,000 ish tax free

Free GP visits (medical card) can also be available to the employed, same with educational grants, free tv licence only available to a very restricted group on social welfare.

While some abuse the system, but over all I prefer that we gave a good system. It does need some work and I agree a maximum payment should be introduced.

BTW the basic payment is €188 I think.

avalon68

imitation wrote: »

the fact there is such a massive gap between rich and poor, the gun crime, the hyper-capitalism, the TV that is 50% ads, the horror that is some of the food there and the long working hours puts me right off.

I wouldn't like to fall off the saddle over there, the homeless people aren't on the streets for the fun of it.

+ 1 to most of this. Every country has a division between the rich and poor, but here its a pretty huge division. For such a developed country/western power, I was amazed by this the first time I lived here. Personally I would rather pay a bit more tax than be tripping over people sleeping on the streets. Quite a large number of people here are about one paycheck away from being homeless all the time. I live in a pretty nice well off town, but literally 10 min drive down the road are a bunch of people living in trailers. Miserable existance here if you fall on hard times.

TheTurk1972

ResearchWill wrote: »

Stealth taxes, have you taken stealth taxes into account in the US city and state sales tax, property tax, neighborhood taxes, local, town, county and state. If you have done the calvulations put up the difference. Have you check the cost of private education, college education.

Yes I have.
I used to work there for a few years and actually paid those taxes.
I know which one is better for me.

TheTurk1972

ResearchWill wrote: »

You also need Habitual Residency for community welfare payments, I don't need to do the research I have been helping people with no income and refused all state help because they don't satisfy the HR rules.

The relevant section

246.—(1) For the purpose of each provision of this Act specified in subsection (3), it shall be presumed, until the contrary is shown, that a person is not habitually resident in the State at the date of the making of the application concerned unless the person has been present in the State or any other part of the Common Travel Area for a continuous period of 2 years ending on that date.

[2004 (MP) s17 & Sch 1]
(2) In subsection (1) “other part of the Common Travel Area” means the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man.

[2004 (MP) s17 & Sch 1]
(3) The provisions of this Act referred to in subsection (1) are sections 141(9), 154(c), 163(3), 168(5), 173(6), 180, 192, 210(9) and 220(3).

Section 192 relates to supplementary welfare payments.

Just ask yourself what a CWO does for a living.

TheTurk1972

dahamsta wrote: »

Still avoiding this question I see OP.

Hardly. Anyone with half a brain can do the maths and derive the answer from what I posted in the first post. You dont need me to do the match for you do you?

marienbad

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Hardly. Anyone with half a brain can do the maths and derive the answer from what I posted in the first post. You dont need me to do the match for you do you?

Yes We do please .

avalon68

kodoherty93 wrote: »

Its not just the basic payment of €204 a week. Social welfare includes free GP visits, educational grants, free TV Licence. The whole package for 2 Adults and 2 Children €30,000 ish tax free

Would you really begrudge a sick person getting to see a doctor? It would cost a lot more if they get sicker and end up in hospital! Educational grants? Again - I dont see why anyone would begrudge money to buy books etc. An educated society is of benefit to everyone. I agree they should crack down on abuse of the system, but do we really want to become a society that kicks those who are already down? Most people on the dole are trying their best to get work. Im pretty sure the vast majority dont want to be unemployed and most are struggling to get by (as are some employed people, I know)

liammur

avalon68 wrote: »

+ 1 to most of this. Every country has a division between the rich and poor, but here its a pretty huge division. For such a developed country/western power, I was amazed by this the first time I lived here. Personally I would rather pay a bit more tax than be tripping over people sleeping on the streets. Quite a large number of people here are about one paycheck away from being homeless all the time. I live in a pretty nice well off town, but literally 10 min drive down the road are a bunch of people living in trailers. Miserable existance here if you fall on hard times.

And despite all of this, America is effectively bankrupt!

TheTurk1972

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

Perhaps you didn't mean to, but your posts seem to come accross as borderline condescending towards anyone who is or was unfortunate enough to have lost their jobs in recent times. Unemployment payments are not funded by Revenue Dept.which is where our taxes end up.

From your income levels I'm assuming that you both have some sort of college education which resulted in qualifications that have enabled you both to secure & pursue well paid careers, & again I'm assuming that you both received this education free gratus & for nothing? If this is the case then I think it's a bit rich for you to complain about people claiming the dole. If my assumptions are incorrect then please accept my apologies.

Many people earning a lot less than you do have contributed to your education & qualifications, some of whom now find themselves in the unfortunate position of having to claim the dole. Many of these people didn't have the chance to avail of free third level education through no fault of their own.

People's circumstances can change at the turn of a sixpence, so perhaps it might be wise to bear this in mind, & hope that you never have to experience any sort of financial hardship in the future.

Best of look in the USA

We were both educated in the US. Thats where we met actually. I worked for years before and paid for mine. She got a scholarship.
But thats neither here nor there, just pointing out that your assumptions are off.
And even if people did contribute towards my education, as grateful as i would be, it doesnt change the fact that i am being taxed out of the country.

I dont care if someone is on the dole or not. Its not relevant to the thread if you are on the dole or not. THe dole was just used as an example because its easy to multiply the amount out. I could have used the cost of traffic cones or paper, but i dont know these figures.
Its not even relevant whether someone believes me that my financial situation would be better or worse in the US. It could be anywhere.

The point is to ask the question that if you tax the tax payers out of the country, look how much you have to make up from those paying no tax, or those who cant easily move to another country, such as solicitors, barristers etc, who cant just up and practice somewhere else.

I dont want to leave Ireland but i have options and if taxes go up im off. Im positive im not the only one.
What if there were 100s or even thousands exactly like me.
The more you tax us the more people you force out.

ResearchWill

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Just ask yourself what a CWO does for a living.

They decide on Supplementary Welfare Payments, which are covered by the Act. CWO's are now Social Protection's representatives, http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/community_welfare_officers.html

Cavehill Red

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

I dont care if someone is on the dole or not. Its not relevant to the thread if you are on the dole or not. THe dole was just used as an example because its easy to multiply the amount out. I could have used the cost of traffic cones or paper, but i dont know these figures.
Its not even relevant whether someone believes me that my financial situation would be better or worse in the US. It could be anywhere.

The point is to ask the question that if you tax the tax payers out of the country, look how much you have to make up from those paying no tax, or those who cant easily move to another country.
I dont want to leave Ireland but i have options and if taxes go up im off. Im positive im not the only one.

You still haven't answered the question, asked 3 times now, whether you and your wife are actually paying 60,000 euro per annum in income tax.

ResearchWill

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

I dont care if someone is on the dole or not. Its not relevant to the thread if you are on the dole or not. THe dole was just used as an example because its easy to multiply the amount out. I could have used the cost of traffic cones or paper, but i dont know these figures.
Its not even relevant whether someone believes me that my financial situation would be better or worse in the US. It could be anywhere.

The point is to ask the question that if you tax the tax payers out of the country, look how much you have to make up from those paying no tax, or those who cant easily move to another country.
I dont want to leave Ireland but i have options and if taxes go up im off. Im positive im not the only one.

Youare correct, this country is in trouble we either have to increase tax or reduce sercvices or both. Your option is to leave and get a better life somewhere else or stay and be part of the solution. Totally your choice. If you feel it's in your best interests short and long term to go then go.

Duiske

kodoherty93 wrote: »

Its not just the basic payment of €204 a week. Social welfare includes free GP visits, educational grants, free TV Licence. The whole package for 2 Adults and 2 Children €30,000 ish tax free

Tell me this, how many people do you know who are on the dole and getting €204pw plus free TV license ?

TheTurk1972

imitation wrote: »

As a Irish person earning 70k+ you'll probably do well in the US alright, seems they have the most political clout and get there way. But, while the taxes are way more favourable, you get caught on other things, like healthcare which can be around $20-30k a year for a family, massive college fees. In my books the american system seems than you are constantly hit by the hidden costs.

I wouldn't be too keen to live in the US, the fact there is such a massive gap between rich and poor, the gun crime, the hyper-capitalism, the TV that is 50% ads, the horror that is some of the food there and the long working hours puts me right off.

I wouldn't like to fall off the saddle over there, the homeless people aren't on the streets for the fun of it.

No joking that is my single worst hate from living in the States.
But now we have the internet

Rachineire

Just my two cents here- I'm from the states, I had a great job where I worked 60+ hours a week and earned a very generous salary. After taxes, paying for my medical insurance, car insurance, household bills (including water charges) and general costs like petrol and groceries I had very little money in my pocket at the end of the month. I moved to Ireland, I work part time and make substantially less and have more money in my pocket at the end of every month. The cost of living here is lower. Yes some taxes are higher but these are for services for which we all avail. I was paying into my social security everyweek in the states and I will never ever see a dime of that!

TheTurk1972

ResearchWill wrote: »

Youare correct, this country is in trouble we either have to increase tax or reduce sercvices or both. Your option is to leave and get a better life somewhere else or stay and be part of the solution. Totally your choice. If you feel it's in your best interests short and long term to go then go.

If I need to I will. Thanks for your permission.
But while the thread has gone off topic and gone on to how much tax i will pay abroad and how many ads are on tv or how much extra people get on the dole, the question remains.

Of those who can emigrate to a better situation, ie not those on the dole or professionals who cant easily up and move without retraining, or people who have to stay because of sick relatives, etc, - how many are feeling pressure from rising taxes and costs here? Enough that they are about ready to go.

And whats going to replace the revenue collected from them when they are gone?

TheTurk1972

Cavehill Red wrote: »

You still haven't answered the question, asked 3 times now, whether you and your wife are actually paying 60,000 euro per annum in income tax.

Some people just cant figure things out for themselves.

From title of thread and amount of dole.

188 x 52 x 6 = 58656.
Therefore, we pay that or more in income tax.

Thats how much the state loses from us or someone similar moving away. Whether we are better off or not is irrelevant, the state loses that amount plus any income derived from what we spend.

Multiply that out and where does the money to replace those lost taxes come from.

ResearchWill

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

If I need to I will. Thanks for your permission.
But while the thread has gone off topic and gone on to how much tax i will pay abroad and how many ads are on tv or how much extra people get on the dole, the question remains.

Of those who can emigrate to a better situation, ie not those on the dole or professionals who cant easily up and move without retraining, or people who have to stay because of sick relatives, etc, - how many are feeling pressure from rising taxes and costs here? Enough that they are about ready to go.

And whats going to replace the revenue collected from them when they are gone?

I have kept all my posts polite and on topic, why the sarcasm. As you are fully aware you don't need my permission.

I for one could very easily leave Ireland and make more money and pay less tax. But you know I like Ireland I think the extra I pay to live here is worth it.

If you want a thread on taxation then make a thread on that, if you want to put forward an argument that you can live in the US and pay less tax great, but you have put that on a forum don't get pissed off when people show how your OP seems ill conceived. if you are going to put forward the argument you have then be able to back it up, show how much more you and your wife will take home, how much you will have to pay in all the other charges in the US v Ireland.

marienbad

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Some people just cant figure things out for themselves.

From title of thread and amount of dole.

188 x 52 x 6 = 58656.
Therefore, we pay that or more in income tax.

Thats how much the state loses from us or someone similar moving away. Whether we are better off or not is irrelevant, the state loses that amount plus any income derived from what we spend.

Multiply that out and where does the money to replace those lost taxes come from.

Thank you for that at last, now would you answer my other question please- are you are your wife graduates from Irish Universities ?

ResearchWill

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Some people just cant figure things out for themselves.

From title of thread and amount of dole.

188 x 52 x 6 = 58656.
Therefore, we pay that or more in income tax.

Thats how much the state loses from us or someone similar moving away. Whether we are better off or not is irrelevant, the state loses that amount plus any income derived from what we spend.

Multiply that out and where does the money to replace those lost taxes come from.

But you forget that your job is not just you (unless you are self employed) another person will get your job and your wife's job. They will pay the tax you paid. They will get your job and either move from another job or the dole. So like most economics it's not as simple as you portray.

Solair

Taxation as a % of GDP in Ireland is 30.8% (2012 figures) (that includes all forms of tax)

Taxation as a % of GDP in the USA is 26.9% again, same figures.

Given that in Ireland you get a few 'freebies' like much much cheaper health insurance and virtually free university education, you still probably get a slightly better deal in Ireland.

Compared to some of continental Europe, Ireland's very low tax!

Belgium for example 46.8% of GDP !!

Even the UK 39%

I've paid French income tax and I can assure you Ireland's CHEAP in comparison. They practically tax you on tax over there!

TheTurk1972

ResearchWill wrote: »

I have kept all my posts polite and on topic, why the sarcasm. As you are fully aware you don't need my permission.

I for one could very easily leave Ireland and make more money and pay less tax. But you know I like Ireland I think the extra I pay to live here is worth it.

If you want a thread on taxation then make a thread on that, if you want to put forward an argument that you can live in the US and pay less tax great, but you have put that on a forum don't get pissed off when people show how your OP seems ill conceived. if you are going to put forward the argument you have then be able to back it up, show how much more you and your wife will take home, how much you will have to pay in all the other charges in the US v Ireland.

See post before yours.

If you can move away, exactly how much more in taxes will you take before you leave? Or can they just keep uping taxes and you are happy to pay them.

TheTurk1972

Solair wrote: »

Taxation as a % of GDP in Ireland is 30.8% (2012 figures) (that includes all forms of tax)

Taxation as a % of GDP in the USA is 26.9% again, same figures.

Given that in Ireland you get a few 'freebies' like much much cheaper health insurance and virtually free university education, you still probably get a slightly better deal in Ireland.

Compared to some of continental Europe, Ireland's very low tax!

Belgium for example 46.8% of GDP !!

Even the UK 39%

I've paid French income tax and I can assure you Ireland's CHEAP in comparison.

We're talking about people on the higher tax rate here.
No reason for those on the lower rate or those not paying tax to leave whatsoever.

Solair

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

We're talking about people on the higher tax rate here.
No reason for those on the lower rate or those not paying tax to leave whatsoever.

Everyone has a large chunk of their income on the lower end.

Most continental countries' higher end tax would make your eyes water!

Belgium for example : 50 percent for incomes above EUR 35,060
( 45 percent over 19,130 )
and then they also deduct huge social insurance contributions, local taxes, and umpteen other charges.

Also, if you're moving to the US, make sure you pick one that's a 'red state' and has really poor social services. Otherwise, state taxes might bring you back up to Irish rates, especially in more civilized bits of the US.

ResearchWill

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

See post before yours.

If you can move away, exactly how much more in taxes will you take before you leave? Or can they just keep uping taxes and you are happy to pay them.

well as long as I believe that the taxation is going towards the righting of the economy. I remember very high taxation, I remember 18% home loan interest rates. I remember when this country had no hope because we had been in recession for so many years. But during those dark times I got an excellent education here, I got a great third level eduction. And to be honest there is more to life than making a few extra grand, quality of life goes a long way to keeping me happy.

TheTurk1972

ResearchWill wrote: »

well as long as I believe that the taxation is going towards the righting of the economy. I remember very high taxation, I remember 18% home loan interest rates. I remember when this country had no hope because we had been in recession for so many years. But during those dark times I got an excellent education here, I got a great third level eduction. And to be honest there is more to life than making a few extra grand, quality of life goes a long way to keeping me happy.

Me too. I left to go to Arizona then.
Im always happy too, but when it comes to my money in my pocket or someone elses I will choose mine. Its the same as lighting fags with my money.

christmas2012

if were going to look at the high social welfare bill we have to look at fas and jobbridge as they are being subsidised by the state,the fas state pension is paid via welfare,and so is the ce workers on the fas schemes which make the social protection bill incredibly high

marienbad

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

If I need to I will. Thanks for your permission.
But while the thread has gone off topic and gone on to how much tax i will pay abroad and how many ads are on tv or how much extra people get on the dole, the question remains.

Of those who can emigrate to a better situation, ie not those on the dole or professionals who cant easily up and move without retraining, or people who have to stay because of sick relatives, etc, - how many are feeling pressure from rising taxes and costs here? Enough that they are about ready to go.

And whats going to replace the revenue collected from them when they are gone?

My partner and I could easily move and make more money as could all our kids - highly educated professionals .

But we won't - we will tough it out as we did in the oil crisis recession of the 70's and the Charvet shirts recession of the 80's and all the time paying more tax than today - 52% in the 80's if I recalll correctly.

And any lost revenue will be replaced as it always has been by those of us who choose to believe the ship is'nt quite sinking yet. You are not the victim here.

I understand those the leave because they have no choice and in an unfair way they are helping the situation. But those that have done well and are still doing well who decide to leave because thay are paying 60 k in tax ! Well the sinking ship analogy comes to mind

TheTurk1972

marienbad wrote: »

My partner and I could easily move and make more money as could all our kids - highly educated professionals .

But we won't - we will tough it out as we did in the oil crisis recession of the 70's and the Charvet shirts recession of the 80's and all the time paying more tax than today - 52% in the 80's if I recalll correctly.

And any lost revenue will be replaced as it always has been by those of us who choose to believe the ship is'nt quite sinking yet. You are not the victim here.

I understand those the leave because they have no choice and in an unfair way they are helping the situation. But those that have done well and are still doing well who decide to leave because thay are paying 60 k in tax ! Well the sinking ship analogy comes to mind

So you think I should pay higher taxes even if I can avoid it?
Do you think most people think this way?
Do you claim all of your tax credits? If so, why? You would be helping out more by not claiming all of your tax credits.

Fallschirmjager

and that advert was by the socialist workers party....

20-30k for healthcare...hmm lets see 15 billion per annum (the low estimate for dept of health and lets exclude the 500 odd million overrun so far this year) divided by 1 million people (those working and it isnt even close to 1 million working, keep in mind public sector wages are not wealth creation but wealth destruction) and you get, ta da 15k euro. now add on your private healthcare. now each worker on average is paying around 15k per annum for a health system that doesnt work in ireland. is that good value? 1 on 40 people you see on the street works in public healthcare in Ireland. its the largest employer. the irish healthcare system is about jobs and control..it is absolutely fuk all to do with health...you are the necessary grease for the system and the fear of illness to control you. why do you care if i smoke or drink or overeat...you do because your 15k is paying for it. its meant to get you to be involved in your neighbours health or the guy on tv smoking 200 a day so a little fascist minister can tell you what to eat, what to drink, who can sell what, where and when. its all about control.

hidden fees? please tell me that was in jest. this is a country living on hidden fees...NO lets call them what they are ...TAXES. i am still paying that ridiculous unemployment charge from the 1980's that was before the current charge. how about your pension charge to create jobs, household charge, road tax, insurance tax, hospital charge, road tolls...do you want me to go on? oh and what happened all that money stored for the pension fund? was anyone dumb enough to think some grubby little minister was going to leave that alone?

college fees? here the thing. nothing is for free. you are paying for colleges, its a tax and by the way i paid for my own but now its deemed i have to pay my neighbours as well. i wonder how long before the fee for that is charged? care to take a guess, 6 months, a year. also irish universities have dropped down the university charts since going public...care to guess who is first, second third, fourth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth? here is the list http://www.arwu.org/ here is the harsh cold reality....you get what you pay for. there is a reason the US creates the laptops, ipad, ipod, mars landers, latest medicine. its nothing to do with dna...its all about money. by the way if you cant afford the top ones there are hundreds to choose from.

hidden costs? if you want to goto college you pay. whats hidden? why the frack should i pay for you to go study ancient history? im sorry if you are too poor to go...here is a far out idea...get a freaking job and stop expecting everyone else to pay for you. if you get sick, you pay...explain again why i should pay? and spare me the 'i care more that you'. no you dont. i dont have a choice who i pay for. some minister does depending on the vagries of their mood and preferences and lets not forget election hopes.

gun crime? hyper capitalism? have you been to the states? it hasnt been hyper capitalism in 100 years...strangely around the same time they started to borrow with the federal reserve? who would have thunk it? gun crime..stop reading that idiot michael moore and go visit. he believes cubas health system is better...i tell you what -- lets see where he goes when he gets sick? there is a reason government ministers goto the US for healthcare-- thats not available to you. as for guns, there is a reason outside the usual cities, people leave the door to their house open. is there gun crime, yes...quel suprise...we have it here and we dont have guns. when they ban guns..the only person in a situation between a criminal and you who doesnt have one is guess who...yes you. they have a great comment in the US, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. defend yourself and stop outsourcing your protection to someone. having been broken into, thanks but i would much prefer the opportunity to defend my family. the last time it took the police 3 hours to arrive, 3 hours. and incidentally guns in the US are about protection of the constitution and the formation of illegitimate power structures.

tv that is 50% ads. thats the free public networks. you know like rte...oh wait, we have a tax for them dont we...yet they have adverts and still over run on costs.

horror food? what horror food? we went there 2 years ago to the gulf coast (remember that terrible oil spill...oh wait didnt see a freaking thing) you know what a top japanese restaurant cost for 3 people -- 50 dollars (ex drinks, we dont drink). you know what a low to medium burger joint cost (steaks and shakes-- kinda like eddie rockets) cost for 3...17 dollars. whatever you want in food is available in the states...you want to spend 10,000 dollars...someone will cook it for you. you want to spend 5...someone will cook that.

long working hours? i dont know where you work but thats here now. also here is from forbes, the latest i could find was from 08. the list is south korea, (wait for it) greece,czech, hungary, poland, turkey, mexico, italy then the USA. those figures are from the OECD.

fall off the saddle? dont fall of it here either and incidentally go check up on their social welfare system, medicare,medicade (or what ever it is called), food stamps, sickness pay. they are discussing issuing smart phones to those on food stamps. the US is a basket case at the moment. it is so far from hyper capitalism and if they dont get back to it...they are destined to follow europe into the dustbin of history.

its time you stopped reading the socialist workers party pamphlet, that moron of a president we have in ireland..will someone for gods sake cut his hair, and the complete tit...michael moore. moore is a classic socialist...telling everyone else how to live while he gorges on everything except the truth.

here the thing, the US is like anywhere. its got good points and bad ones. welcome to the universe...enjoy your stay.

to the original poster, i say good luck to you in the US. i dont blame you.go for it and earn your wealth. the key is you earned it and its your choice what to do with it not some muppet in dail eireann more concerned with their own reelection and their 100k of your money. i wish you the very best in your adventure....

marienbad

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

So you think I should pay higher taxes even if I can avoid it?
Do you think most people think this way?
Do you claim all of your tax credits? If so, why? You would be helping out more by not claiming all of your tax credits.

I obey the law including tax law . So I think you should pay the taxes required by that law . From what you have said so far you would appear to be one of those than benefited from the tiger years and are still doing so. If you feel that jumping ship means even you can do even better then there is nothing stopping you,at least nothing in a legal sense , morally is another question.

I don't speak for anyone else but I presume enough of us think this way as we have worked our way out of a worse situation at least once before and we will do so again.

You final line is meaningless

ratracer

@91:
Eminem could put those words to a tune and you could both share in the profits of it!!!

donegal_road

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

My wife and I worked out that our combined income tax pays the full dole of 6 unemployed people.

We both worked in the US for a few years before and tax there is nothing compared to what we pay in Ireland.

We would like to stay in Ireland as its home afterall, but seriously, if we have to pay anymore in tax after this next budget we're off, back to the US.

So while Noonan is raising taxes, yet again, for hard working people, he can think about how he's going to raise it enough to keep those 6 people on the dole without our income tax. He can also figure out where he's going to make up the money we wont be spending in Ireland every year either.

Really getting tired of being the ones getting gouged by the government.
Does anyone else feel the same way.

I take it you didn't buy a house here in the last 5-6 years?
(sorry if this has been asked/discussed already)

megafan

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

My wife and I worked out that our combined income tax pays the full dole of 6 unemployed people.

We both worked in the US for a few years before and tax there is nothing compared to what we pay in Ireland.

We would like to stay in Ireland as its home afterall, but seriously, if we have to pay anymore in tax after this next budget we're off, back to the US.

So while Noonan is raising taxes, yet again, for hard working people, he can think about how he's going to raise it enough to keep those 6 people on the dole without our income tax. He can also figure out where he's going to make up the money we wont be spending in Ireland every year either.

Really getting tired of being the ones getting gouged by the government.
Does anyone else feel the same way.

Lucky you keeping 6 people fed & watered........ with the same taxes you both pay it'll only go towards 1/3rd of Biffo's pension.... & there's still state cars & other expenses....:mad:

TheTurk1972

donegal_road wrote: »

I take it you didn't buy a house here in the last 5-6 years?
(sorry if this has been asked/discussed already)

We did buy a house here.

NIMAN

I Think its safe to say that these unemployed people will see their benefits cut over the next few years. Our social security bill is unsustainable.

Onthe3rdDay

The US is a great country if you earn a lot of money. Get a good accountant and you can pay a lot less tax than here legally. However, if you're on anything under $150,000 a year it's not the place to go.

However, it does seem to be unfair that you can pay 60,000 a year in tax ahd if say you're self employed you won't get anything back from the state if you hit tough times. It's a two way street, if you pay in, you should get something in return. there are lots of people that pay into the state and receive little or nothing back but hassle. Road tax is supposed to pay for the roads, exclude that and many have nothing to do with the state at all.

Some of these are looking at other European countries were they're taxed almost as much but there is some assistance and help. I know two people who have already left for Europe and I'm actively looking at my own options.

Anyone with the ability and cop on to leave the country has done so or is planning to do so. Well paid and not so well paid self employed people can get a better deal in lots of other places. Many came back a few years ago after decades away, they won't be fooled twice.

It was a lot harder to up sticks and leave if you had a business or a job 20 years ago. The internet has changed all that. This could become a real problem in the years to come.

Cavehill Red

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Some people just cant figure things out for themselves.

From title of thread and amount of dole.

188 x 52 x 6 = 58656.
Therefore, we pay that or more in income tax.

Thats how much the state loses from us or someone similar moving away. Whether we are better off or not is irrelevant, the state loses that amount plus any income derived from what we spend.

Multiply that out and where does the money to replace those lost taxes come from.

No need for you to be patronising. I am asking you to confirm that you do pay that amount of income tax IN REALITY, and not merely for the purposes of argument.
As has already been pointed out to you, whatever tax (if any) you do pay goes towards the entire raft of state services. It's not like you're personally sponsoring some people like they were Trocaire black babies.
Perhaps you don't comprehend this. (See? More than you can be patronising when we choose.)
This state contributes billions in overseas aid, and billions more to bail out banks. The condition of the national economy has not been caused by the unemployed, nor should the weakest in society, many of whom paid plenty of tax in their time themselves, be the ones to suffer unduly in order to correct the fiscal wrongs of the past.
Being frank with you, most people in the tax bracket you claim are not in the position to emigrate due to owning businesses here, or being in a senior management position. I suspect you're just trolling the well-trodden and tired path of divide and conquer, which serves only those who screwed up the economy and have not been held to account.

hmmm

Unfortunately a large part of the population of this state receive more from taxes than they pay as taxes. This means that they will automatically vote for the politician who increases taxes, and will vote against the politician who cuts benefits. The upper middle class in particular (college educated, earning c. 60-80k a year) are getting completely screwed - high taxes, low benefits, being asked to shoulder the burden of a hugely overblown welfare state.

marienbad

hmmm wrote: »

Unfortunately a large part of the population of this state receive more from taxes than they pay as taxes. This means that they will automatically vote for the politician who increases taxes, and will vote against the politician who cuts benefits. The upper middle class in particular (college educated, earning c. 60-80k a year) are getting completely screwed - high taxes, low benefits, being asked to shoulder the burden of a hugely overblown welfare state.

You must be joking- we are still one of the least taxed countries in Europe.

And by the way that should be ''free college educated '' .A lot of which is paid for by the working classes that never have a chance of 3rd level education.