We pay the dole of 6 people with our taxes - We're off to the US

Dannyboy83

later12 wrote: »

Hmm. Not sure this is a particularly credible thread. Here is a table of effective income tax rates using the latest Revenue statistics.

Farewell.

Isn't that just income tax tho?

It seems like a very isolated view,
e.g. A person looking at their diet, saying "I can't understand how I'm gaining fat, I only 30grams of fat per day" - while ignoring the 200g protein and 400g carbs they're eating.

There is a much more complete picture here:
http://www.ronanlyons.com/2012/04/10/paying-tax-in-ireland-where-the-richest-and-poorest-pay/

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2012/04/10/paying-tax-in-ireland-where-the-richest-and-poorest-pay/



The graph shows the quirks of the Irish system. The system is, with one important caveat, extremely progressive, with the tax rate on wealthiest households (40%) more than twice that on average households (16%). In fact, it is probably too progressive (at least the non-VAT elements), as the marginal rate on income above relatively low thresholds (when compared internationally) is 52%, above the mental barrier of 50% that resonates when foreign executives look at where to base their new operation.
But the system is also hugely regressive. Because poorer households have to spend all their income (and then some), and all that spending is liable for VAT, their effective tax rate surpasses all other income groups in the bottom half of the income distribution.

Stheno

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Of those who can emigrate to a better situation, ie not those on the dole or professionals who cant easily up and move without retraining, or people who have to stay because of sick relatives, etc, - how many are feeling pressure from rising taxes and costs here? Enough that they are about ready to go.

For me, I can easily move pretty much anywhere in the world and get work due to my qualifications. I've cut my budgets so I have less "luxuries" but I'm still able to meet my obligations, and for now wouldn't think of moving.

ResearchWill wrote: »

I for one could very easily leave Ireland and make more money and pay less tax. But you know I like Ireland I think the extra I pay to live here is worth it.
.

This is it basically for me

Dannyboy83

ResearchWill wrote: »

But you forget that your job is not just you (unless you are self employed) another person will get your job and your wife's job. They will pay the tax you paid. They will get your job and either move from another job or the dole. So like most economics it's not as simple as you portray.

That's frequently the case with lower income employment, but, ime anyway, not quite so with higher income employment.

First, can the skillset be replaced?
Second, does it have to be onsite?
Third, can be done cheaper elsewhere?

I've certainly seem companies outsource some of these roles, rather than replace.

greendom

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

My wife and I worked out that our combined income tax pays the full dole of 6 unemployed people.

We both worked in the US for a few years before and tax there is nothing compared to what we pay in Ireland.

We would like to stay in Ireland as its home afterall, but seriously, if we have to pay anymore in tax after this next budget we're off, back to the US.

So while Noonan is raising taxes, yet again, for hard working people, he can think about how he's going to raise it enough to keep those 6 people on the dole without our income tax. He can also figure out where he's going to make up the money we wont be spending in Ireland every year either.

Really getting tired of being the ones getting gouged by the government.
Does anyone else feel the same way.

Don't go - you'll be leaving 6 people to starve. Think of the good your doing to Irish society.

Dannyboy83

Solair wrote: »

Taxation as a % of GDP in Ireland is 30.8% (2012 figures) (that includes all forms of tax)

It varies heavily tho, single high income vs married low income etc.

The tax burden on single high income earners in Ireland is actually above the OECD average.

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/global_economy/article_1022279_printer.shtml

Given that in Ireland you get a few 'freebies' like much much cheaper health insurance and virtually free university education, you still probably get a slightly better deal in Ireland.

That could certainly be true if you access services a lot (or don't as the case may be)

e.g.
It would work in your favour if you never require access to the services you pay for in Ireland, but against you if do, compared to the UK for example.

Compared to some of continental Europe, Ireland's very low tax!
Belgium for example 46.8% of GDP !!
Even the UK 39%

And Sweden is higher yet again.
The difference, imo, is that people in those countries are generally happy to pay high rates of tax, because they receive high levels of service.

I've written on this topic before

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75598314&postcount=21
In a country like Sweden, I would like to hand over whatever money necessary and just let the state look after all these provisions for me.

In a country like Ireland, you simply cannot take that risk.....the safe thing to do is to try keep as much money back from the state as you can, because they will not provide for you, regardless of how much they take.

I've paid French income tax and I can assure you Ireland's CHEAP in comparison. They practically tax you on tax over there!

But, as you know, in France you get a complete breakdown of what your tax paid for. Your payslip is France is 3 A4 pages.
There is no such ringfencing in Ireland (to the exasperation of French people who work here)

AlekSmart

NIMAN wrote: »

I Think its safe to say that these unemployed people will see their benefits cut over the next few years. Our social security bill is unsustainable.

Perhaps NIMAN,perhaps.

One problem however,is Minister Joan Burtons recent warbling about INCREASING the Social Deduction contribution rates.

This appears to be required in order to maintain DSP benefit levels on or around the same as currently paid for the increased number of recipients.

NOBODY is querying the basic good sense of a Social Support System,however there is much to question about a Social Support System which is sucking the virtual life blood from the contributing class whose contributions go to maintain it.

In my own specific area of operations I simply cannot reconcile how a small economy of approx 2.5 Million contributing workers can fund totally free Public Transport for 726,000 other individuals.

http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

The same question can be posed for the greater body of DSP benefit schemes as the Department appears to have a "Scheme" to fit everybody,with special classifications for those who might otherwise have to be told ...NO.

In the case of the Free Travel Scheme it's a 97,000 strong group of recipients classified as "Others".

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/ResearchSurveysAndStatistics/Documents/2011stats.pdf

Table G3 Page 86.

Table G12 Page 93.

Hmmmm: Unfortunately a large part of the population of this state receive more from taxes than they pay as taxes. This means that they will automatically vote for the politician who increases taxes, and will vote against the politician who cuts benefits. The upper middle class in particular (college educated, earning c. 60-80k a year) are getting completely screwed - high taxes, low benefits, being asked to shoulder the burden of a hugely overblown welfare state.

Marienbad:You must be joking- we are still one of the least taxed countries in Europe.

Two related posts,but in relation to Marienbad's post it's worth noting that the other higher taxed European countries tend to spend their tax-take somewhat differently.

The all to frequently seen situation in Ireland whereby the hardest part of the process is actually getting into the system tends not to be replicated in the greater EU,whose systems for the most part do not encourage long-termism to the extent ours does.

Whether our Government actually appreciates the nuances of the IMF's nodding and winking in that direction is another question....;)

dahamsta

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

188 x 52 x 6 = 58656.
Therefore, we pay that or more in income tax.

If you're earning enough to pay that much in taxes and you spend your free time bitching about it on a web forum, rather than enjoying your wealth, in all honesty I'd /prefer/ if you took your money and taxes out of my country. We'll do just fine without you thanks.

EchoO

PRSI contributions are paid into the social insurance fund and this is where the dole comes from. The fund is currently in deficit, but from 1997 to 2008 it was in surplus e.g. 2002 1.2 billion, 2003 1.5 billion, 2004 1.9 billion, 2005 2.4 billion, 2007 3 billion. Where did all this money go?

Limbo123

28064212 wrote: »

Hope you don't have trouble finding work in the US, good luck on their social welfare. Or worse, you really don't want to fall ill over there

EDIT: Oh, and your tax doesn't pay for 6 people on the dole. It pays for the roads you use, the hospitals you attend and the education your children receive

And there I was thinking ROAD TAX was used to pay for the ROADS. And that was after the Goverrnment was taking money from the EU with both hands to build them!!!

Count Dooku

dahamsta wrote: »

If you're earning enough to pay that much in taxes and you spend your free time bitching about it on a web forum, rather than enjoying your wealth, in all honesty I'd /prefer/ if you took your money and taxes out of my country.

Since when it become only your country?

Dannyboy83

@OP,

It's a shame it turned into an 'attack the OP' thread, as it could have been quite an interesting one.

Personally, I have felt the way you have felt in the past, and I'm not a high earner.
I was paying out very large amounts of tax while the government were busy inventing laws to prevent my girlfriend from access to social welfare.
Personally, we went through what I would consider abject poverty in 2009 - sanctioned by the Irish state.

Luckily since she regained employment, things have been much better for us.
That experience changed us heavily - me in particular I admit, I became ridiculously disciplined, not just financially (in the best physical shape of my life right now) - but we became so used to living with nothing that in the years since, we became completely debt free and we have saved up a mortgage deposit now.
I always keep emergency funds in the Credit Union now, no matter how flush things look. Best way to learn a lesson is the hard way!
Every cloud..... (or maybe, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, lol)

I certainly understand the way you feel, but personally I don't bear a grudge anymore. Life really is too short.
My attitude is that if we buy a house here, we must ensure we can continue to be entirely self sufficient. The taxes I pay, I see largely as a protection racket, but I'm too small to take on the government, lol. If a party comes along, I will give them my vote. Until then, what can ya do? *shrugs*.

I wouldn't give you some nationalist crap about 'staying here and making a difference, participating in the recovery etc.' That's just something which people who have no other choices tell themselves to soothe themselves.
I'd prefer to face the cold, hard truth - at least that way you can prepare yourself. The insider culture and vested interests in Ireland are getting worse, not better - they are the least nationalist people of all.
You will simply have to accept this and agree to live with it, if you intend to remain here.
And taxes are definitely going to increase, there is no question.

Personally, I believe anyone who believes they can rely on the government is in for a nasty awakening when the time comes.

In spite of all the turmoil, I am seeing a recovery locally. IT is doing pretty well in Ireland generally, thanks in so small part to the dot com bust in 2001, which ensured that IT salaries remained far more realistic than the majority of other professions.
Other industries might see a recovery if they ever face reality.
I have seen some businesses which closed reopen, such as a few gyms although I guess it won't last with the increase in fuel prices and the impending taxes etc.

My girlfriend would love to leave, but I still don't want to.
One of the best things about Ireland is the people.
When I started using this forum, the apathy of Irish people used to infuriate me. Now I understand it better.
There is a good quote from Jim Morrison talking about the Irish. He said they can survive anywhere - thanks to their sense of humour.
Hopefully not too depressing, but this is our destiny, lol.

The good thing about the Celtic Pyramid is that it gave us confidence and saw that we could achieve. But it was a very unfair system.
The system now, in spite of it's flaws, is fairer.
Eventually, things will improve. Through peaceful revolution or violent revolution - I don't know. (I probably won't bother vote next time round, or I might give Sinn Fein my protest vote )

But if you can't bear the taste of a sh*t sandwich, then now is the time to leave, because things will definitely get worse before they get better.

NIMAN

I love the way people seem to think every other country in the world is utopia, with no issues or problems, and its only in Ireland that things are messed up.

dahamsta

Limbo123 wrote: »

And there I was thinking ROAD TAX was used to pay for the ROADS.

It isn't road tax, it's motor tax. And it isn't used exclusively for the roads.

NIMAN

dahamsta wrote: »

It isn't road tax, it's motor tax. And it isn't used exclusively for the roads.

Again, same as every other country that has a motor tax. Its just a tax that goes into the central Gov tax pot and is used for different things.

And again, Ireland is no worse than any other country re: this tax.

I'd love some of these moaners go to to NI, where my widowed pensioner mum pays £1200 annually for property rates on a 4 bed semi detached. For this she gets her bins emptied, street cleaned maybe 3 or 4 times a year, and not a lot else.

Dannyboy83

NIMAN wrote: »

I love the way people seem to think every other country in the world is utopia, with no issues or problems, and its only in Ireland that things are messed up.

All a matter of perspective imo.

Ireland was sheer hell for me in 2009, not too bad these days.

One of my friends who is a secondary teacher and still seems to think the recession is a media phenomenon.
Another who is a primary teacher thinks half the families in the country are destitute.
Depends what you're exposed to.

Depends what your expectations are:
I completely gave up on public transport around 2001/2002, it's just a source of entertainment for me now, doesn't affect me so I don't need to care.
My girlfriend thinks life in Ireland is much better and easier than in her native country, but she couldn't understand how a return trip from Cork to Bandon would cost €16, when a return trip from Cork to Dublin was €22. Public transport in her country isn't pretty, but it's affordable and frequent.

An acquaintance of mine brought his partner and kids here, then his mother.
He quit his job recently, gets JSB, rent relief, children's allowance and will have courses paid for if he ever stops drinking and gambling long enough to do them.
His partner gets JSA. His mother who has neither worked an hour in her life in this country, nor can speak English, get full disability and a medical card.
He thinks Ireland is incredible.
(The OP probably won't when he reads this, lol!)

Depending on your particular situation, Ireland can be a terrible place to live or a great place to live.

ArtSmart

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

My wife and I worked out that our combined income tax pays the full dole of 6 unemployed people.

so long and thanks for all the fish.

later12

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Isn't that just income tax tho?

It seems like a very isolated view,
e.g. A person looking at their diet, saying "I can't understand how I'm gaining fat, I only 30grams of fat per day" - while ignoring the 200g protein and 400g carbs they're eating.

There is a much more complete picture here:
http://www.ronanlyons.com/2012/04/10/paying-tax-in-ireland-where-the-richest-and-poorest-pay/

Of course.

My point is that the OP has specifically referenced income tax, not PRSI or USC, if you read his posts.

He claims that he effectively pays the dole for six people based on his income tax; this would require a combined income in excess of €200,000.

I'm not quite convinced these people enjoy the same sort of hospitable treatment in the USA as they do here in terms of educating their children or other secondary benefits of an Irish citizen's residence, but I'm more than delighted to let them try it out.

Delancey

David McWilliams forecast that high unemployment would see Irish people turn their wrath on immigrants and blame them for the county's woes . He was wrong - people seem to have set their ' attack dogs ' on the unemployed.

later12

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

An acquaintance of mine brought his partner and kids here, then his mother.
He quit his job recently, gets JSB, rent relief, children's allowance and will have courses paid for if he ever stops drinking and gambling long enough to do them.
His partner gets JSA.

Hmm. No they don't.

Cedrus

Delancey wrote: »

David McWilliams forecast that high unemployment would see Irish people turn their wrath on immigrants and blame them for the county's woes . He was wrong - people seem to have set their ' attack dogs ' on the unemployed.

In fairness, we Irish are great at the blame game, the unemployed, overpaid civil service, immigrants, travellers, politicians........ they're all the scourges of our decent lives. Yet scan the court pages of any paper and they're full of people just like us, anyone who claims to know no one with with penalty points knows at least one liar. If there's a person in the country who doesn't "know someone who knows someone" who can sort an early hospital appointment or a driving charge, they're in a minority.

Dannyboy83

Delancey wrote: »

David McWilliams forecast that high unemployment would see Irish people turn their wrath on immigrants and blame them for the county's woes . He was wrong - people seem to have set their ' attack dogs ' on the unemployed.

Morgan Kelly said the travellers would get it.
Haven't noticed it at all tbh.

I don't notice attacks on the unemployed anywhere apart from boards.

I still notice a lot of attacks on Eastern Europeans but from other Eastern Europeans, not from Irish people.

I think the fact that a lot of Irish people's children are now immigrants in Oz rather than staying on the dole in Ireland has put the shoe on the other foot.

barneystinson

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Some people just cant figure things out for themselves.

From title of thread and amount of dole.

188 x 52 x 6 = 58656.
Therefore, we pay that or more in income tax.

Thats how much the state loses from us or someone similar moving away. Whether we are better off or not is irrelevant, the state loses that amount plus any income derived from what we spend.

Multiply that out and where does the money to replace those lost taxes come from.

Wow. I can't believe that someone who, based on their own posts is paid a substantial wage, can't figure out the glaring answer to that question!

Off to the US with ye and good luck; your arrogant and patronising attitude will fit in perfectly there.

And now to answer your question.... The state loses NOTHING. The person who replaces you in your job pays the taxes you used to pay, and spends the money you used to spend in the economy (who knows they might even spend a few quid more than you, if they actually splash out more than 50sheets on wedding presents for people!). In fact, as a consequence of you & your OH leaving the country 2 people might get to come off the dole...

Let us know when yer leaving; I'll come to wave you off / celebrate.

Cheerful Spring

Bring jobs to Ireland and you'll see people going back to work. Complaining about people on welfare is not a solution.

stoneill

Limbo123 wrote: »

And there I was thinking ROAD TAX was used to pay for the ROADS. And that was after the Goverrnment was taking money from the EU with both hands to build them!!!

No such thing as road tax.

MOTOR tax goes to local authorities.

And while I'm here, why does a single income married couple pay more tax than a double income married couple?

barneystinson

stoneill wrote: »

why does a single income married couple pay more tax than a double income married couple?

They don't necessarily, it depends on the level of income.

Essentially the answer is because only 9k can be transferred between spouses to be taxed at 20%... meaning that if a single income couple earn over 41.400 they hit the high rate of tax.

If the non-working spouse gets a job though, they can earn a further 23,400 abefore hitting 41% tax.

The purpose being to incentivise participation in the workplace.

stoneill

barneystinson wrote: »

The purpose being to incentivise participation in the workplace.

Oh the irony!

Cheerful Spring

The Department of Social Protection does not review the lifestyles of people on welfare. Over 24 you get 188 euros automatically once you are able to show you are out of work.

A 24 year old with a kid or two living out of home paying bills living on the dole gets 188 euro.

A 24 euro old with no bills and living at home no kids should that person be getting 188 euro a week?Could he or her here survive with 10 euro or 2O euro less?

Prior work history is also not considered by the Welfare. Shouldn't we be checking records to see how many people were unemployed in 2008 and earlier and if they are still now claiming welfare. Ask them why they had no job during the good times? For me these are the people who are draining this economy not the people who recently became unemployed in the last three years or so.

Too many scroungers went away had families and never worked, and could not care less the Irish government was the ones supporting their family. Those kind of people irate me the most. They have done nothing that has ever benefited the Irish economy. The recent unemployed paid taxes when they had jobs can't say they never helped the economy.

Wompa1

I don't get what people on here are saying about the cost of healthcare in the US. So far I've been put on anti-biotics twice here and needed an emergency dentist appointment with a root canal and crown.

My anti-biotics cost 6 dollars without using my insurance
My painkillers cost 4 dollars!

My root canal cost 280 dollars with my insurance covering the rest
I got quoted at 360 for my crown with my insurance.

My insurance cost the same I was paying for health insurance in Ireland but I'm covered for more. I spent over 2k in Ireland in medical bills in my last year. I got 220 back. That was with the second best policy I could get with Aviva.

I'm hoping to go to a doctor about my long term health issues that I developed in Ireland but failed to get treated because the consultants wouldn't give me the time of day. I was diagnosed with a blood disease and told come back in 6 months, don't worry about it, your liver seems ok so you should be fine. No explanation other than that, the guy walked out and left me with a junior doctor who couldn't answer any of my questions.

Also school here is affordable if you live in an affordable area. College is what you pay for. Based on some of the courses I looked up in Ireland this year, there seems to be community college courses here that are now cheaper than Irish college courses. Or do those pointing it out mean because your fees are paid when you get the grant, because not everybody gets the grant ya know!?

avalon68

My Irish insurance costs about 600 euro a year. My us insurance costs almost 1000 a month ( most paid by employer- so if I lost my job I would lose my coverage) and doesn't include dental or vision....for that it would cost me a few hundred extra a month. A colleague of mine is having wisdom teeth extracted next week - going to cost her almost 3000 dollars. A lot of jobs here don't provide benefits.....what are those people supposed to do? Some employers contribute a lot more than others- a friend with exactly the same position as me in a different state had to pay almost 500 usd per month towards his plan. I have liked living here, but I would not like to stay here long term - I would live in fear of getting seriously ill, losing job etc.

On the topics of college, I work in one....the last circulation I recall mentioning fees mentioned something in the region of 60000 - 70000 a year being the average here. But they certainly get what they pay for. Phenomenal teaching, phenomenal facilities. State schools are cheaper, but it still costs more to get a degree here than any degree in Ireland.

Wompa1

avalon68 wrote: »

My Irish insurance costs about 600 euro a year. My us insurance costs almost 1000 a month ( most paid by employer- so if I lost my job I would lose my coverage) and doesn't include dental or vision....for that it would cost me a few hundred extra a month. A colleague of mine is having wisdom teeth extracted next week - going to cost her almost 3000 dollars. A lot of jobs here don't provide benefits.....what are those people supposed to do? Some employers contribute a lot more than others- a friend with exactly the same position as me in a different state had to pay almost 500 usd per month towards his plan. I have liked living here, but I would not like to stay here long term - I would live in fear of getting seriously ill, losing job etc.

That's true. If you can't afford insurance or a ticket to Canada you could be in trouble and you get that sense from people here. Everybody is pretty tightly wound at work. They work hard and seem to be managed by fear of losing their jobs. Produces quality work but awful quality of life when it comes down to work life balance. How tightly wound people are is probably what leads to a lot of the problems here. That and the fact you can get prescribed Vicodin for a toothache!

I too won't be staying here long term. I'm paying about 120 dollars a month here and do get dental and vision. I was paying 85 euro a month back home. So far I've found the actual quality of care better here but probably because they want do everything in there power to check your health to make as much money as they can. It's a welcome change for me because I need to have somebody take a look at me properly or risk something really bad happening

avalon68

Wompa1 wrote: »

That's true. If you can't afford insurance or a ticket to Canada you could be in trouble and you get that sense from people here. Everybody is pretty tightly wound at work. They work hard and seem to be managed by fear of losing their jobs. Produces quality work but awful quality of life when it comes down to work life balance. How tightly wound people are is probably what leads to a lot of the problems here. That and the fact you can get prescribed Vicodin for a toothache!

I too won't be staying here long term. I'm paying about 120 dollars a month here and do get dental and vision. I was paying 85 euro a month back home. So far I've found the actual quality of care better here but probably because they want do everything in there power to check your health to make as much money as they can. It's a welcome change for me because I need to have somebody take a look at me properly or risk something really bad happening

Agreed on the quality thing - had an eye exam a few weeks ago and it left me wondering what the heck they have been doing in Ireland for the last 20 yrs of checking my eyes. Much more comprehensive testing than I have ever had before. The people I work with are pretty tightly wound too, and when it comes to picking new positions, most of the weighting for or against a place is what type of benefits do you get. Especially for people with kids. There have also been issues in the past whey if you had for example cancer, and survived and recovered, no one would insure you again. Though I think Obama care addresses that issue.

Wompa1

avalon68 wrote: »

Agreed on the quality thing - had an eye exam a few weeks ago and it left me wondering what the heck they have been doing in Ireland for the last 20 yrs of checking my eyes. Much more comprehensive testing than I have ever had before. The people I work with are pretty tightly wound too, and when it comes to picking new positions, most of the weighting for or against a place is what type of benefits do you get. Especially for people with kids. There have also been issues in the past whey if you had for example cancer, and survived and recovered, no one would insure you again. Though I think Obama care addresses that issue.

I think I'm going back to Ireland next year. Sure there's people there that are feckless lay abouts that take advantage but there's a lot of people who need and deserve the help...I didn't think this way before I got to America mind you.

It would be great if there was a good middle ground between the American system and the Irish one. I admire the American ideaology. No matter how down and out, people here don't want social welfare to be like in Europe because they have this mentality that one day they will be rich and it's just a temporary set back. They don't want Uncle Sam dipping into their pockets for the money they earned. But feck it, life is too short. People here work so hard and get treated like crap, they deserve a bit of peace of mind that they are paying towards getting a helping hand if things go bad

femur61

ResearchWill wrote: »

€400 a week on the dole wow I'm giving up work and there I thought it was less than €190.

You'll be entiteled to a medical card. Then if you have kids you don't have to pay for state examinations, school travel.

This year alone the cost of the junior cert was €250 - medical card holders pay nothing.

Bus transport €100 - free to medical card holders.

Alot of people get rent allowance on SW.

The basic may be €188 but it can be of considerable benenfits to be attained if you have kids.

I can understand the OP fustration. The waste in all departments is undeniable and myself and my husband earn nothing that would cover 6 peoples dole the governemnt IMO are totally inept.

seeing_ie

This is nothing but an ideological question imo.

Do you want to live in a low tax regime, like the US, with high levels of social inequality, with no healthcare, where public schools are underfunded to the extent that private schools are often the only option, where prisions are run for profit, where 50 percent of all capital gains flow to the top 0.1 percent of taxpayers?

Or would you prefer to live in a high tax system (the Scandanavian model, for example) where there is much less social inequality and more social mobility, where childcare/education/healthcare/parental leave/holiday time/retirement care etc are mandated or provided to a high level by the government?

It's no utopia obviously, but give me the Scando model any day of the week.

Congratulations OP on being in a position to pay your fair share of taxes.

You didn't get there on your own. You're standing on the shoulders of previous generations of taxpayers in this country who paid for the roads, schools, hospitals, universities and all the other infrastructure and services that got you where you are today.

Cushie Butterfield

TheTurk1972 wrote: »

Yes we are doing OK. But for every extra euro we earn now over half is taken by the taxman. Now that hurts when you work hard to increase your income, only to see it lifted straight out of your pocket. And now they want to go in for more.

The best time for you to leave is June/July. That way you can submit a P50 to Revenue & state that you have left Ireland for the foreseeable future & wish to claim the balance of tax credits due to you, which in your case should amount to a pretty hefty refund.

i think the whole thread is more of a rant than a politics thread so leaving it
there