Myrna Nazzour - Miracle of Damascus

oldrnwisr

the_eman wrote: »

I want to counter one point right now that is incorrect, many tests have been conducted to eliminate the possibility of cheating not alone that this has been witnessed my many thousands of people. Tests have been conducted on Myrna's body as per evidence I presented. Tests have been conducted on the oil produced from Myrna and from the Icons. Icons have been tested in sealed glass containers where oil has exuded.

There are complete scientific journals written on this topic, here is an excerpt
http://www.soufanieh.com/MEDICAL/HUILE/19900416.fra.eng.chromatography.oil.htm

" Nevertheless, coming from a piece of paper, it is just as unexplainable that vegetal oil or cholesterol become the seat of emission "ex-nihilo", that is to say, without the contribution of natural substances. "

There are many documented testimonies. From witnesses and people who have received cures in Myrna's presence.

http://www.soufanieh.com/ENGLISH/mnoil.HTM

I will argue the rest of the points when I return from a break.

I apologize if I appeared snide, it is not my intention, I just wanted to Juxtapose some arguments.

OK, before I start, I would like to point out that in my previous post when I talked about the possibility of cheating being eliminated, I was referring to the wounds not the oil. Anyway with regard to the oil, there are some things I'd like to take issue with.

Firstly, the second link in your post claims that samples of the oil have been tested six times in six different laboratories all with the same results. However, you have only posted one link in support of this. Can you please post the other results and their conclusions and if possible, the dataset so that we can examine it ourselves.

Secondly, contrary to your assertion, there are no papers published about the oil. Your sole link about the composition of the oil comes from a book written by a French doctor named Philippe Loron. Loron is a neurologist who specialises in medical hypnosis (Erickson therapy). His published peer-reviewed work consists of studies on stroke in young adults. There are no publications listed for him since 1990. Since the Soufanieh incident which he seems to have investigated, he has mainly made a living from Christian mysticism and Christian writings. He is referenced in works on miracles as a doctor but always as "former head of" or "former doctor at".

Thirdly, you'll note that even Loron doesn't come to any explicit conclusions about the oil. The results are described as "analagous to" and "compatible with" suggesting there may be other factors which could cause the results to be interpreted in a different way. Pretty much the only solid statement from Loron on the matter is that the material is not an apport. The traces of animal cholesterol shows that the substance had at least some contact with human skin.

Fourthly, it's worth pointing out that the reason we do scientific tests is because of the unreliability of eyewitness testimony. This might explain more: conversion disorder.

Finally, what evidence is a cure supposed to be? Lourdes is the daddy of all "miracle cure" sites and even that has a lower cure rate than background noise, principally due to the Lourdes Medical Bureau.

forestfairy

Hi E,
I have watched all 31 parts on youtube of "the miracle of Damascus" I too am struggling with the question of whether or not this phenomena did/does occur. After closely paying attention to every single video, I came to the conclusion that she is most probably a fraud and a fake. Although there are a lot of footage of Nazzour, NOT ONE sequence shows a wound actually appearing from start to finish. NOT ONE. The wounds always appear after she has been under her blanket. If she truly wanted so desperately for the entire world to know about these spectacular supernatural events, and that she is not a fake, surely SHE would demand and would want the photographers to film the entire sequence of events starting with the beginning of the 'stigmata' (the initial pains BEFORE the wounds open up before the skin has broken) up to and leading to the skin breaking open.

Read this blog too...I found it very helpful.

http://garvarn.blogspot.com/2008/07/holy-crap-or-myrna-nazzour-miracle.html

recedite

99.9% olive oil. 0.1% human sweat.
This oil cures all manner of aches and pains.
Therefore, it must be 100% genuine snake-oil.
Take a dab of it and leave a cash donation in the collection box at the door on your way out folks...

the_eman

forestfairy wrote: »

Hi E,
I have watched all 31 parts on youtube of "the miracle of Damascus" I too am struggling with the question of whether or not this phenomena did/does occur. After closely paying attention to every single video, I came to the conclusion that she is most probably a fraud and a fake. Although there are a lot of footage of Nazzour, NOT ONE sequence shows a wound actually appearing from start to finish. NOT ONE. The wounds always appear after she has been under her blanket. If she truly wanted so desperately for the entire world to know about these spectacular supernatural events, and that she is not a fake, surely SHE would demand and would want the photographers to film the entire sequence of events starting with the beginning of the 'stigmata' (the initial pains BEFORE the wounds open up before the skin has broken) up to and leading to the skin breaking open.
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Thanks for taking the time to go through all the videos, I appreciate that and appreciate your feedback.

Here is a more concise video only 4.5 mins long and worth a watch. In it one particular doctor from LA gives his views on this phenomenon. He watched the woulds open and close. The closing and healing of the wounds in such a time is not possible for humans. I also mentioned in an earlier post how other scientists have also observed this. This doctor in LA as well as many other medical doctors have seen the same things in the presence of Myrna. This doctor has a successful practice in LA and a reputation to keep, surly he believes.

Please watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqa2SA7h00

the_eman

recedite wrote: »

99.9% olive oil. 0.1% human sweat.
This oil cures all manner of aches and pains.
Therefore, it must be 100% genuine snake-oil.
Take a dab of it and leave a cash donation in the collection box at the door on your way out folks...

Surly Myrna would not go through this for some cash donations. She is an educated woman and her husband has a career. If you offer Myrna cash she will not accept it.

The oil exuded from the Icon, even the one sealed in glass under observation was tested to be 100 % pure olive oil, there is no process on earth to produce 100 % pure olive oil. The results are out there the people who carried out the tests were named why not go seek out these people and the results, there are many.

Kind Regards.

seamus

the_eman wrote: »

there is no process on earth to produce 100 % pure olive oi

Except of course the process by which olive oil is produced and bottled by the millions every year?

Surly Myrna would not go through this for some cash donations. She is an educated woman and her husband has a career. If you offer Myrna cash she will not accept it.

To quote one article I found online:

The Nazzour’s home has become a venue for prayer groups and attracts pilgrims from all over the world.

Assuming for a second that she doesn't make any material gain from these pilgrims (intentionally or through gifts, etc), then she is still subject to idolatory and celebrity from these pilgrims.

kylith

the_eman wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to go through all the videos, I appreciate that and appreciate your feedback.

Here is a more concise video only 4.5 mins long and worth a watch. In it one particular doctor from LA gives his views on this phenomenon. He watched the woulds open and close. The closing and healing of the wounds in such a time is not possible for humans. I also mentioned in an earlier post how other scientists have also observed this. This doctor in LA as well as many other medical doctors have seen the same things in the presence of Myrna. This doctor has a successful practice in LA and a reputation to keep, surly he believes.

Please watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqa2SA7h00

He claims that he hid his wife to video her, so where's the video?

Unfortunately just because someone is a professional it doesn't mean that they are a reliable witness. Sometimes they can be the least reliable; because they are so confident in their own intellect they have difficulty in seeing where they may have been tricked, i.e. they cannot conceive of something they can't understand, so when they come across something they can't understand they declare it completely inexplicable. Here's a video of James Randi explaining how a bunch of scientists were fooled by one of the most basic magic tricks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbwWL5ezA4g

Galvasean

the_eman wrote: »

Here is a more concise video only 4.5 mins long and worth a watch.

So, you had a more concise video all along, but decided to withhold it all this time so you could berate people for not thralling through 5 hours of footage of a questionable nature?

pauldla

the_eman wrote: »

Surly Myrna would not go through this for some cash donations. She is an educated woman and her husband has a career. If you offer Myrna cash she will not accept it.

Good woman! I approve of that. I presume 'Surly' is a typo?

But I wonder, are there any other groups collecting when she is in action, even if it be a bashful curate nudging a plate forward as people leave...?

ironingbored

the_eman wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to go through all the videos, I appreciate that and appreciate your feedback.

Here is a more concise video only 4.5 mins long and worth a watch. In it one particular doctor from LA gives his views on this phenomenon. He watched the woulds open and close. The closing and healing of the wounds in such a time is not possible for humans. I also mentioned in an earlier post how other scientists have also observed this. This doctor in LA as well as many other medical doctors have seen the same things in the presence of Myrna. This doctor has a successful practice in LA and a reputation to keep, surly he believes.

Please watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqa2SA7h00

Anyone else notice the Sacred Heart behind the doctor in his office at 1.27 mins?

forestfairy

the_eman wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to go through all the videos, I appreciate that and appreciate your feedback.

Here is a more concise video only 4.5 mins long and worth a watch. In it one particular doctor from LA gives his views on this phenomenon. He watched the woulds open and close. The closing and healing of the wounds in such a time is not possible for humans. I also mentioned in an earlier post how other scientists have also observed this. This doctor in LA as well as many other medical doctors have seen the same things in the presence of Myrna. This doctor has a successful practice in LA and a reputation to keep, surly he believes.

Please watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPqa2SA7h00

Dear Eman,

I have seen this video when it first came out a year and half or so ago. The Doctor in the video is Dr Antoine Mansour. I WORKED for this dr in his medical office in Hollywood for several years running his front office. I have met Myrna in person when she came to visit Los Angeles several years ago. She is a very nice lady. Dr Mansour is an extremely kind and generous man and so is his wife. Believe me when I say that I have thoroughly examined every single video out there about Ms Nazzour for years. I believed without a shadow of a doubt for years that all of these events have truly happened and are 100% real happenings. After all, why in the world would the Dr lie to me and/or risk jeopardizing his reputation and career..? The messages that Myrna allegedly receives from Jesus and Mary is a message of a call for unity between the Catholic and Orthodox church. Jesus and Mary are basically both asking for the churches to unite and celebrate Easter on the same date. And during the years where Easter falls on the same date for both denominations a "stigmata" occurs to Ms Nazzour or the Holy olive oil "appears" on her hands/face... I understand that there have been "many" doctors that have examined Ms Nazzour and have declared the phenomena to be 100% real. And there were "rumors" I heard of "many" people being healed. I urge you to go back and watch the videos again and this time pay close attention to and look for any testimonies of anyone who has been "healed" in any way from any ailments they have been suffering from. Out of all 31 videos telling the story of this phenomena, the narrator mentions just TWO stories of healings. One is of a woman who traveled from Los Angeles to Syria because of a "shoulder pain" this testimony is on film and is in one of the later parts of "The videos entitled "The miracle of Damascus" (she couldn't move her shoulder and was convinced she would be healed if she went to Damascus for Myrna to pray on her) she claimed she was healed after Myrna prayed on her...it is in my humble opinion that the "healing" she experienced was probably psychosomatic. And the other is of a "man" who was able to walk after not being able to walk without crutches... the narrator MENTIONS this man.. there is no actual personal testimony on recorded film of who this man even is.
I wanted to sit down on many occasions to ask Dr Mansour many questions I had regarding his experiences with the phenomena, but he was a very very busy man and never had the time.
When all was said and done, I had to ask myself some questions:
1. All of the testimonies from the several doctors that have examined her have all claimed that they have personally witnessed the phenomena of the stigmata and oil unfolding before their eyes. However, out of all of the many many many videos of footage of Ms Nazour, THERE IS NOT ONE sequence of footage of the wounds simultaneously appearing from start to finish. NOT A SINGLE ONE. The wounds always appear after she has been under her blanket. If she truly wanted so desperately for the entire world to know about these spectacular supernatural events, and that she is not a fake, surely SHE would demand and would want the photographers to film the entire sequence of events without any breaks of footage (time lapse) starting with the beginning of the 'stigmata' (with filming starting during the initial pains she experiences BEFORE the wounds open up BEFORE the skin has broken) up to and leading to the skin breaking open. So far, there is no evidence and no footage for this whatsoever. There has been only one documented research team headed by Norwegian cardiothoracic surgeon Knut Kvernebo. No wounds appeared when the researchers were present, but when they all went shopping on the last day, a wound of course appeared. Basically my message to you is this: "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see." Benjamin Franklin said this. I'm not saying Myrna is a bad person. She may have the best of intentions,,keep in mind that she is an uneducated woman from a tiny village in Syria... and these people probably get bored and so desperately want to believe something amazing is happening to their community so they develop tunnel vision and see what they want to see... I have a lot more to say on this subject but this message is already way too long and I have to go to work

recedite

the_eman wrote: »

If you offer Myrna cash she will not accept it.

How do you know, have you tried it?
Lets invite her to to Ireland for A&A beers and ask her ourselves.
(Although, I'm afraid I won't be allowed to attend because of my charisma).

Myrna travels out of Syria in order to give her testimonial and to pray with the faithful.
Usually, her spiritual guide and a member of her family accompany her.
Myrna in mission, must be the ONLY ONE giving her testimonial. She must not be included nor invited at the same time with any other person(s) that also have any spiritual gift / charisma.
Myrna's family is very modest and humble, with simple means, and cannot travel outside Damascus unless all the expenses related to the trip (flight tickets, lodging, insurance, visa expenses etc.) are taken care of.

official website source

If we all pitch in, it should be no more expensive than sending your local county council on a celtic tiger junket. And then we'll see if she takes the brown envelope afterwards.

the_eman

From the same page.

recedite wrote: »

It is preferable for Myrna and whomever is accompanying her to lodge in a convent.

GRATUITOUSNESS is a must in everything related to her mission. One must avoid any activity that might hamper the essence of her mission, whose cornerstone and center are PRAYER.

The distribution of images, prayer booklets, books, audio or video cassettes, CDs, DVDs or any other materials must be given out GRATUITOUSLY and no admission charge can be expected from anyone under any circumstances. This is is relation with Christ's Message dated April 10th 2004 : "You are its radiance in a world seduced by materialism, sensuality and fame, so much as to have almost lost its values."

Myrna is not in this for the money, She still lives in the same modest house now as she did before this started happening.

recedite

But now she gets to travel the world on "all expenses paid" trips, with her own entourage, as a celeb.
For some reason, a lot of Syrians seem desperate to leave their home country recently.

forestfairy

recedite wrote: »

But now she gets to travel the world on "all expenses paid" trips, with her own entourage, as a celeb.
For some reason, a lot of Syrians seem desperate to leave their home country recently.

Con artists build their whole careers around good-hearted people saying to themselves, "But who would lie about that?"

Read more: 5 Ridiculous Lies That Fooled the Whole World | Cracked.com http://www.cracked.com/article_20007_5-ridiculous-lies-that-fooled-whole-world.html#ixzz25fXUXOIX

MagicMarker

It could be the case that she thinks this is all real, and is genuine about not making money from it. In which case, she's just a mentaller.

Galvasean

MagicMarker wrote: »

It could be the case that she thinks this is all real, and is genuine about not making money from it. In which case, she's just a mentaller.

It could be a bit of both to be honest. She could be creating the hoaxes herself but so desperately deluded that she doesn't realise what she's doing. the human mind is strange sometimes.

forestfairy

Galvasean wrote: »

It could be a bit of both to be honest. She could be creating the hoaxes herself but so desperately deluded that she doesn't realise what she's doing. the human mind is strange sometimes.

Hi Galvasean, I agree 100%. The only logical explanation here is that her mind is so severely deluded that she honestly believes that what she is doing (the hoaxes such as the oil dripping from the icons and her hands and the wounds) are a GOOD thing. She believes her acts are good things because she is helping her community come together, she believes God is pleased with her because she is promoting christianity, everyone around her is overjoyed and excited...etc. Also, although she states that she will not accept money from anyone, (she is not a wealthy woman and lives in a modest home in Damascus, Syria) who is funding all of her trips around the world? If you watch the videos "The miracle of Damascus" Priests and doctors are testifying on film that they have witnessed the miracle of the olive oil dripping from her palms and of the wounds opening on her forehead, palms, and feet..however, if you go and examine the videos closely, there is not one single piece of footage with the camera focused directly on her palms with any kind of substance "dripping" the way sweat would form, collect and drip from skin...and there is not one piece of footage with the phenomena of the wounds OPENING captured on film ( film capturing the actual skin breaking open) Why not? Wouldn't this be one of the first things her and her husband would want to film and show the world? In all of the videos, she always has her palms held up with a shiny substance (which I'm assuming is the oil) for people to see them or she has her hands clasped together. As far as the footage of the icons "exuding oil," yes. There is footage of oil dripping from the icons. However, who is doing the filming of all this? Most probably it's her husband (assuming). Who's to say He (her husband) or someone else did not dowse the icon with a half bottle of oil seconds before filming and then claim the phenomena was being caught on film? Furthermore, although the message of the entire phenomena is a call for unity among catholic and orthodox christians, why would God/Jesus/Mary not want to call unity among ALL of the christian denominations? Heck, why would God/Jesus/Mary not make a call for unity among all RELIGIONS??? Wouldn't this be more of an effective way to create peace within the world??? Why is God playing favorites? This is not congruent with the personality of an all-loving God. Another thing, In one of the so-called messages Myrna receives, Jesus tells Myrna that "there is no salvation for the soul except through the cross" again, this is not congruent with an all-loving God. If a little old Buddhist or muslim lady does not accept Jesus as her lord and savior there is no salvation for her??? I could go on and on....Why would God choose to reveal himself this way? Instead of wasting energy asking for petty things like unity between two denominations by making wounds and dripping oil, why does he not answer the prayers of starving, kidnapped, raped, missing/abducted, cancer-stricken, abused, tortured innocent children ????
This whole thing does not make any sense whatsoever.

forestfairy

the_eman wrote: »

So your arguments were:

Too long don't want to watch.
The stigmata's were in the wrong place -- Incorrect
Francis Of Assisi has a stigmata in the wrist not hand -- Incorrect
David Blain can be disproved by a ridiculous imitation trick
A finger trick anyone can do
Funny picture of National levitation office - I like that
Another guy doing levitation or is it a trick, unclear
A victory banana

Here is some evidence from a Psychiatric Department at the University of Lubin with references to Myrna Nazzour.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=18&cad=rja&ved=0CEUQFjAHOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wydawnictwo.umlub.pl%2Fpsychiatry%2Fpl%2Fartykul%2FpobierzPdf%2Fid%2F3347&ei=Op46UK-eGsaYhQfpm4GgBA&usg=AFQjCNHOFeuflHm3MV83hnVtaE92G1wtcg


On excerpt

"A Syrian lazarist (father Joseph Malouli), who was the only one present to have any knowledge of the phenomenon, called 8 doctors immediately and they held a scrupulous inspection of Myrna’s wounds. They opened in an inexplicable way and they were healed in the same way, without any traces or scars about 11 pm."

There is a very visible scar here. Right above the wound/scratch there is a scar of a previous scratch.

recedite

MagicMarker wrote: »

It could be the case that she thinks this is all real, and is genuine about not making money from it. In which case, she's just a mentaller.

I don't think so. The most likely scenario is that she is deliberately scratching herself under the blanket with the crucifix. In that case, she knows its a fraud.
There are two possible motives;
1) The do-gooder one, where she unites two christian churches (her own family is divided between them) and makes everybody happy.
2) The selfish motive- herself and the husband get to leave Syria and gullible people in Europe and the USA pay for their perpetual "Celebrity World Tour".

Either one is a good result from her point of view.

nozzferrahhtoo

the_eman wrote: »

Many people have testified to being cured of sickness and disabilities while in the presence of these miracles while they occurred and from using the oil.

Any many people testify to having been cured by homeopathy despite the fact it is only water.

There is a thing in Medicine called "Return to the mean" which is that people who are sick are often going to get better anyway. If you apply snake oil, homeopathy or your magic olive oil and they get better then this does NOT in any way evidence your claim that the oil is what did it. You have to show that the people would not have gotten better anyway.

If you really think your oil is special then:

1) get 1500 people suffering from the condition you think the oil cures.
2) Allocate 500 of them your oil, 500 of them the common medically approved treatment for the condition and 500 of them a placebo. Do this in such a way that neither you NOR the patients know which treatment they are getting.
3) Come back later and check which of the three groups have fared the best.

If your oil really is magic you will expect that group 1 will do much better than 2 which will do much better that 3.

If your oil really is just oil as most people here suspect you will find that group 2 do the best and group 1 and 3 are almost identical.

When you have done THIS test then come back to us and you might have something that can convince us a little better than wheeling the choir in front of a handy cam and putting it on you tube as there are very few nonsense claims you can not find people on you tube attesting to the truth of. From alien abduction, to homeopathy, to big foot, to fairies, to a still living elvis, to 23ism to much more... you will find that getting people on camera testifying is easy to do.

nozzferrahhtoo

the_eman wrote: »

On the David Blaine topic. Myrna Nazzour accepts no money for appearances she has made in variuos parts of the world. She sells no trinkets, books, icons, souvenirs does not make money from this. What about David Blaine?

This is a common trick played by people trying to sell this nonsense. The trick is making the mark assume that Financial Gain is the only reason a person might lie about this stuff.... and if you can show that such a person as Nazzour is not accepting money then surely they can not be lying to you!

There are a number of reasons why this is a nonsense trick.

1) You are assuming financial gain is the only motivation for lying to others. There are many reasons why someone would do it. Social status, power, sex, attention and much more.

2) You have not actually shown that Nazzour does not benefit financially from the lies. You have just assumed/declared it.

3) You are assuming such a person KNOWS they are lying. This is not a safe assumption. Many such people genuinely believe in their own powers in the same way people using Ouija boards really think spirits are moving the marker and not they themselves. It is perfectly possible your Nazzour person genuinely believes their own nonsense.

robindch

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

It is perfectly possible your Nazzour person genuinely believes their own nonsense.

I'm reminded of Peter Medawar's excellent comment on Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's The Phenomenon of Man:

Peter Medawar wrote:

Its author can be excused of dishonesty only on the grounds that before deceiving others he has taken great pains to deceive himself.

nozzferrahhtoo

^ Indeed. James Randi is good on this subject too. He has many people trying to win the big money prize he offered for people with certain extraordinary abilities. Now while he caught many people out trying to fool him and so forth there are also many who really do believe their own nonsense.

Of course he can not _know_ which ones are lying or not in a lot of cases. But he appears to have come to a position where he genuinely feels that a number of the people who show up in front of his testers really do genuinely think they have whatever power they claim it is they have and leave very confounded by their inability to reproduce it on the day.

What I think the Medawar quote leaves out however is that it can often be a two way thing. The person who is deceiving themselves is also being deceived by the people they themselves are deceiving. A kind of feed back loop is involved here which leaves both parties becoming more and more convinced about the powers in question.

I can think of no better example of this quickly than the unfortunate case of Yanagi Ryuken of aikido fame who believed himself capable of defeating attackers without even touching them. Here is a video of him practicing his abilities. Clearly his students throwing themselves to the ground is convincing him of his own powers but given his students promoted his appearance in real fights they appear to have some how self deluded themselves too and somehow do not know they are throwing themselves to the ground.

What happens when he takes his "powers" to the real fighting mat however is not a pretty sight unless you actually like seeing old men punched over and over in the face. The feedback loop was broken and the old man encountered a sudden and hopefully life changing day with reality.

the_eman

ironingbored wrote: »

Anyone else notice the Sacred Heart behind the doctor in his office at 1.27 mins?

I would assume if he wasn't a believer in Christ before seeing Myrna's stigmata's appearing and then healing he became one very quickly. As he said it has not been known ever for a would to heal so quickly. I do not see anything that would raise an alarm bell with the Doctor having religious imagery in his office or house.

the_eman

recedite wrote: »

But now she gets to travel the world on "all expenses paid" trips, with her own entourage, as a celeb.
For some reason, a lot of Syrians seem desperate to leave their home country recently.

Myrna Nazzour and her family are still to this day living in Damascus even with all the trouble going on around them trusting in their faith that God will protect them or at least God's will will be done.

Wouldn't you think if she had loads of money stashed away she would head to a big safe cosy mansion far from the troubles of the middle east. Nope, Myrna is in the same house in the same district of Damascus where she always lived. There is no big Mansion in the hills, Myrna is not doing this for money.

the_eman

Hi all,

Peace to you all.

Its been a while since I posted here. I hope you have had the time to view the Miracle of Damascus Documentary and investigate the other miracles such as holy oil on Myrna and on the Icon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SydLIbc8zew&feature=fvsr

I have not posted this to make money, on behalf of any group or organization although I am Catholic. I have posted this as I have been given the gift of faith and am led by the Holy Spirit.

I also feel that there are many events and signs in our world today that indicate maybe we want to give Christ some thought or another chance.

Do not model your behaviour on the contemporary world, but let the renewing of your minds transform you, so that you may discern for yourselves what is the will of God -- what is good and acceptable and mature. Romans 11:2


12 and with the increase of lawlessness, love in most people will grow cold;
13 but anyone who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14 'This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed to the whole world as evidence to the nations. And then the end will come.
27 because the coming of the Son of man will be like lightning striking in the east and flashing far into the west.
29 'Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven; then, too, all the peoples of the earth will beat their breasts; and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet to gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
34 In truth I tell you, before this generation has passed away, all these things will have taken place.
35 Sky and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
36 But as for that day and hour, nobody knows it, neither the angels of heaven, nor the Son, no one but the Father alone.
Matthew 24

Sarky

Increase of lawlessness? You are talking about this planet here, right?

Nah, I think I'll stick to the godless profanity, thanks. It's a hell of a lot more fun.

recedite

the_eman wrote: »

then, too, all the peoples of the earth will beat their breasts; and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet to gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

What, has He no mobile network coverage up there?

Sarky

If you're beating your (or anyone else's) breasts, you're definitely doing it wrong.