Pro lifers giving out sweets to children on Shop street

Night Falls

JustMary wrote: »

Where we've got unstuck is the patching together of religious and civil marriage - things would be a lot cleaner if they were two totally separate things.

I'd agree with you there. I don't really care if the catholic church recognise same sex marriage or not (however repugnant I might think that standpoint is), as long as civil marriage between same sex couples is protected in law.

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

Ahh, but you're forgetting the difference between what people believe, what they say the believe, and what they actually do. IMHO this is an area where many Irish people have a particular genius talent - I suspect born of the necessity of living under occupation rule for so long.

Exactly - hence the high percentage of 'Catholic' on the census, that bears very little similarity to those practicing 'Catholic values'

Fuinseog

ChunkyLover54 wrote: »

They dont have any power (if your'e a normal independent thinking person).

there is no reason why someone could not have stood up to Bishop Brown in the seventies and told him where to get off. what would have happened- would people have been sent to the gulag for defying him? civil courage was required.

Fuinseog

It's not that long ago when condoms were illegal, never mind divorce.[/QUOTE]

and people used clingfilm. worked just as well.

Fuinseog

Wompa1 wrote: »

Because people are free to have their own beliefs.

I do no know what it is like in Galway but in Dublin, especially outside the pro Cathderal you have people with placards saying ALL Catholics are paedos which is deeply offensive but tolerated.

whats the story with the Iron Man in Galway. last year they blocked off churches so mass goers had to do without. This is not acceptable.

Night Falls

Fuinseog wrote: »

whats the story with the Iron Man in Galway. last year they blocked off churches so mass goers had to do without.

What, completely? Had they boarded up the churches, or was it that they closed a few roads?

Fuinseog

Night Falls wrote: »

What, completely? Had they boarded up the churches, or was it that they closed a few roads?

no churches were boarded up, but if roads were closed then the congregation could not easily access the church. Given that many of the congregation are elderly this seems somewhat unfair.

dharma200

The road was closed... some priest in salthill causing ruptions over the fact his parishoners had to walk to mass......

Everyone is entitled to their beleifs, and everyone is entitled to wave placards.... however beliefs should not be forced onto others. Children should not be coerced or bribed either.. groups should not use children as a target group....

The fact many many many women are forced to flee Ireland to have terminations is scandlous and outrageous.

The fact that a huge event in galway, which brings revenue, publicity etc into the city is causing aggrivation to those who like to drive to mass is laughable.

Night Falls

Fuinseog wrote: »

no churches were boarded up, but if roads were closed then the congregation could not easily access the church. Given that many of the congregation are elderly this seems somewhat unfair.

So the congregation were slightly inconvenienced for one Sunday in the year, and there were absolutely no other churches available for mobility impaired parishioners to use as an alternative? It's a disgrace.

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

It is the first time I have seen counter demonstrators alongside pro lifers in Galway, a very welcome addition.

The counter demonstrators were not giving out sweets to children, so I think its a win for them on this occasion...........

A welcome addition why exactly? Surely if you dont approve of one side protesting, you wouldn't approve of the other side protesting? Or could it be (perhaps) that you just dont like the point the first side are pushing?

TBH I think either side protesting is ridiculous and childish carry on. I am pro-life, and if asked to vote, I will vote accordingly. I have enough strength in my own convictions not to be swayed by a nazi from either side of the fence waving a poster in my face.

Can we not all have enough strength in our own beliefs to just ignore the loo-lahs and, when asked, vote as we see fit? Why are we constantly trying to change each others views? It's not a competition. Let's face it, nobody is going to change their mind about something so weighty based on the warbling of a couple of bible bashers or feminists... Make your mind up and then get on with your life.

It's not about strength in your own beliefs, any more than any protest or campaign for awareness in history has been about "your own beliefs".
Pro lifers think people are off murdering children and want it to stop
pro choicers want it to be made legal
neither of these things can be strictly relegated to your own beliefs

and yes, if we're going to have to be subjected to one side always in our faces about it, it's good to see some balance

Fuinseog

dharma200 wrote: »

The road was closed... some priest in salthill causing ruptions over the fact his parishoners had to walk to mass......

Everyone is entitled to their beleifs, and everyone is entitled to wave placards.... however beliefs should not be forced onto others. Children should not be coerced or bribed either.. groups should not use children as a target group....

The fact many many many women are forced to flee Ireland to have terminations is scandlous and outrageous.

The fact that a huge event in galway, which brings revenue, publicity etc into the city is causing aggrivation to those who like to drive to mass is laughable.

as I pointed out its laughable for elderly parishoners who can barely walk. not everyone is amused when a commercial event takes over the city and interferes with their daily lives.

Fuinseog

Night Falls wrote: »

So the congregation were slightly inconvenienced for one Sunday in the year, and there were absolutely no other churches available for mobility impaired parishioners to use as an alternative? It's a disgrace.

they were not allowed to their place of worship.

dharma200

OldNotWIse wrote: »

A welcome addition why exactly? Surely if you dont approve of one side protesting, you wouldn't approve of the other side protesting? Or could it be (perhaps) that you just dont like the point the first side are pushing?

TBH I think either side protesting is ridiculous and childish carry on. I am pro-life, and if asked to vote, I will vote accordingly. I have enough strength in my own convictions not to be swayed by a nazi from either side of the fence waving a poster in my face.

Can we not all have enough strength in our own beliefs to just ignore the loo-lahs and, when asked, vote as we see fit? Why are we constantly trying to change each others views? It's not a competition. Let's face it, nobody is going to change their mind about something so weighty based on the warbling of a couple of bible bashers or feminists... Make your mind up and then get on with your life.

So, if women waited to be 'asked' to have rights, the vote etc. wouldnt we still be waiting?

It is like saying advertising doesnt work, ofcourse it works, ofcourse giving sweets to children and waving placards, publishing misleading facts/data.. garnering support and having a public presence works... Who is doing all this asking?... without pressure placed on our public representatives would they ask anything of us? Should we all just sit back, and wait until asked... I honestly dont think so..

floggg

JustMary wrote: »

Links to official documents, please? (Not the rants of individuals who are speaking on their own behalf.)

Well it's not an "official document" but how about the Pope fighting against attempts to extend marriage equality to LGBT people?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112857/Pope-weighs-gay-marriage-row-condemning.html

That is very much a case of the catholic church trying to enshrine their morality into law.

There have been similar statements from Bishops in every country where marriage equality has been an issue.

They equally fought against civil partnerships.

Night Falls

Fuinseog wrote: »

they were not allowed to their place of worship.

How about going on Saturday evening for one week in 52 if they're so intent on going to one particular church? You make it sound like they had absolutely no alternatives, which is patently untrue.

OldNotWIse

bluewolf wrote: »

It's not about strength in your own beliefs, any more than any protest or campaign for awareness in history has been about "your own beliefs".
Pro lifers think people are off murdering children and want it to stop
pro choicers want it to be made legal
neither of these things can be strictly relegated to your own beliefs

and yes, if we're going to have to be subjected to one side always in our faces about it, it's good to see some balance

You dont think the protesters are acting from a place of what they believe in? What possible motivation would one have for protesting if one doesn't believe in the cause?

Re the balance, I think we will agree to disagree. I stand by my view that they are both as bad and as silly as each other, and they certainly do nothing to cancel each other out.

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

So, if women waited to be 'asked' to have rights, the vote etc. wouldnt we still be waiting?

It is like saying advertising doesnt work, ofcourse it works, ofcourse giving sweets to children and waving placards, publishing misleading facts/data.. garnering support and having a public presence works... Who is doing all this asking?... without pressure placed on our public representatives would they ask anything of us? Should we all just sit back, and wait until asked... I honestly dont think so..

For someone who has issues with strong protests, the tone of your post is ironically quite militant... I'm curious to know what exactly you mean by "work"? Work, as in, change someone's mind? Isn't that back to my original point? If you believe enough in your own views, they will not be shaken? TBH if someone is so flaky as to allow their opinion on such a weighty issue to be swayed by a fanatic with a poster, I worry about said person actually having a say in the law.

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You dont think the protesters are acting from a place of what they believe in? What possible motivation would one have for protesting if one doesn't believe in the cause?

You asked why we don't just all do our own thing and stop trying to protest and change people's minds. I have given you reasons why these protestors don't do just that.
I have no idea why you're asking the above as it's nothing to do with it.

OldNotWIse

bluewolf wrote: »

You asked why we don't just all do our own thing and stop trying to protest and change people's minds. I have given you reasons why these protestors don't do just that.
I have no idea why you're asking the above as it's nothing to do with it.

No, you have simply re-iterated the fact that these protestors don't do just that. I know they "dont do just that" - that was kind of my original point - that we are all so worked up about changing other people's views to suit our own agenda. Why can we not just vote as we see fit and not be swayed/annoyed/offended by some poster waving radicals?

The reason I asked if it is not about self belief is because you specifically stated - "it is not about self belief" - when it clearly is. Otherwise why would they bother?

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

No, you have simply re-iterated the fact that these protestors don't do just that. I know they "dont do just that" - that was kind of my original point - that we are all so worked up about changing other people's views to suit our own agenda. Why can we not just vote as we see fit and not be swayed/annoyed/offended by some poster waving radicals?

The reason I asked if it is not about self belief is because you specifically stated - "it is not about self belief" - when it clearly is. Otherwise why would they bother?

I'm not sure why there seems to be a breakdown here.
I explained they do it because they think children are off being murdered. I explained they do it because they want legislation changed.
if you think that's simple re-iteration there's not much point continuing this

dharma200

OldNotWIse wrote: »

For someone who has issues with strong protests, the tone of your post is ironically quite militant... I'm curious to know what exactly you mean by "work"? Work, as in, change someone's mind? Isn't that back to my original point? If you believe enough in your own views, they will not be shaken? TBH if someone is so flaky as to allow their opinion on such a weighty issue to be swayed by a fanatic with a poster, I worry about said person actually having a say in the law.

I have issues with religious groups handing sweets out to children while waving placards of feotuses on a busy street, giving out anti abortion leaflets to young girls etc etc.

My views will not be shaken.. a say in the law?? erm, yes, I have a vote.
Just because someone beleives in their views means they should sit back, do nothing and wait to be asked.... why are you answering on this thread? if you have no opinion of pro lifers handing out sweets to children, and are so sure of your own views they may never be swayed, what is the point..
Why do you think politicians go door to door, adverts on tele.. ofcourse people are swayed.

I would worry more about people who unquestionably believe in the bible and the interpretations of its contents to dictate the law.

OldNotWIse

bluewolf wrote: »

I'm not sure why there seems to be a breakdown here.
I explained they do it because they think children are off being murdered. I explained they do it because they want legislation changed.
if you think that's simple re-iteration there's not much point continuing this

I'm not really sure why there seems to be some kind of verbal gymnastics going on here with our posts

I asked why people (both pro and anti and indeed not just protestors but anyone who lobbies or mouths of on anonymous internet forums) dont realise that they are not just going to change people's minds that easily. I'm not sure how telling me WHY they protest answers this. We all know the reasoning behind the protests but the question is - when will they realise that it doesn't really matter a damn what they do - they will not change people's minds?

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

I have issues with religious groups handing sweets out to children while waving placards of feotuses on a busy street, giving out anti abortion leaflets to young girls etc etc.

My views will not be shaken.. a say in the law?? erm, yes, I have a vote.
Just because someone beleives in their views means they should sit back, do nothing and wait to be asked.... why are you answering on this thread? if you have no opinion of pro lifers handing out sweets to children, and are so sure of your own views they may never be swayed, what is the point..
Why do you think politicians go door to door, adverts on tele.. ofcourse people are swayed.

I would worry more about people who unquestionably believe in the bible and the interpretations of its contents to dictate the law.

Not all those who are against abortion are religious (me, for example)

I'm not sure why you have raised issue with me answering on this thread? Is there some problem with that?

Re your problem with the protestors, nobody is denying you the right to "have a problem" with them (I have a problem with them for gods sake and I am pro life) but the point I made (and stand by) is that I do not believe people are going to suddenly convert from pro life to pro choice or vice versa simply because they see someone lobbying, and if they do change their views so flippantly then yes, that worries me and no that does not mean you do not have the right to vote (I'm not sure how you managed to pull that from my post????)

OldNotWIse

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I'm not sure how telling me WHY they protest answers this.

because you asked why

OldNotWIse wrote: »

]Why are we constantly trying to change each others views?

dharma200

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Not all those who are against abortion are religious (me, for example)

I'm not sure why you have raised issue with me answering on this thread? Is there some problem with that?

Re your problem with the protestors, nobody is denying you the right to "have a problem" with them (I have a problem with them for gods sake and I am pro life) but the point I made (and stand by) is that I do not believe people are going to suddenly convert from pro life to pro choice or vice versa simply because they see someone lobbying, and if they do change their views so flippantly then yes, that worries me and no that does not mean you do not have the right to vote (I'm not sure how you managed to pull that from my post????)

If you believe enough in your own views, they will not be shaken? TBH if someone is so flaky as to allow their opinion on such a weighty issue to be swayed by a fanatic with a poster, I worry about said person actually having a say in the law

I took it from this.. the way I have a say in the law is to vote if there is a referendum...... There is not a problem with you answering, but as you said, you have your beleifs and are happy to wait until you are asked to vote on them.. so I amnt sure why there is a debate here... we are aware of eachothers beleifs. You will not sway me nor I you, you do not beleive in protesting either side. I cannot undersatnd the thought process behing thinking that publicising advertising and lobbying does not have an effect on peoples opinions.. why on earth do political parties spend so much each election? Why is the catholic church putting money behing the pro life campaign if it matters not a jot?

Night Falls

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I do not believe people are going to suddenly convert from pro life to pro choice or vice versa simply because they see someone lobbying, and if they do change their views so flippantly then yes, that worries me

Except this thread started highlighting that the pro-lifers were targeting children, who are more likely to be impressionable to such tactics than grown adults.

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

If you believe enough in your own views, they will not be shaken? TBH if someone is so flaky as to allow their opinion on such a weighty issue to be swayed by a fanatic with a poster, I worry about said person actually having a say in the law

I took it from this.. the way I have a say in the law is to vote if there is a referendum...... There is not a problem with you answering, but as you said, you have your beleifs and are happy to wait until you are asked to vote on them.. so I amnt sure why there is a debate here... we are aware of eachothers beleifs. You will not sway me nor I you, you do not beleive in protesting either side. I cannot undersatnd the thought process behing thinking that publicising advertising and lobbying does not have an effect on peoples opinions.. why on earth do political parties spend so much each election? Why is the catholic church putting money behing the pro life campaign if it matters not a jot?

Just because someone or some group lobbies is not proof that it is going to work... I really believe that on this issue, people already have strong views (or maybe just those on boards), and will not be shaken.

floggg

Protests do change minds in many instances. Especially where they use hard hitting imagery like aborted foetuses. They know exactly what they are doing using them.

Even if they don't always change minds they can raise awareness of the issue, galvanise support and raise cash money.

OldNotWIse

Night Falls wrote: »

Except this thread started highlighting that the pro-lifers were targeting children, who are more likely to be impressionable to such tactics than grown adults.

I am aware of that. But discussions evolve (as is their nature) and my point of entry was around about the time when other posters were discussing how annoyed they were over demos and how nice it is now that there is a bit of balance etc.

Fuinseog

Night Falls wrote: »

How about going on Saturday evening for one week in 52 if they're so intent on going to one particular church? You make it sound like they had absolutely no alternatives, which is patently untrue.

i don't Irish people like to be told what to do in general. blocking roads because there is another major cashcow for Galway, that the natives never benefit from, is not acceptable.

dharma200

so because you beleive people already have strong views then there is no point in anyone doing anything?

Were you around when women were trying to get the vote? Or when divorce was being discussed?

No point in anyone doing anything if we were to go by your frame of thinking.

What does work is hugely funded propaganda campaigns diorected at young and vulnerable people. And we of such strong minds and beleifs should allow this? Wait until we are asked our opinion?

Perhaps if people actually took into account the views of the women who may need to seek an obortion, not just those people who have beleifs on the matter who will never ever need or want one, we might come to more reasonable conclusions.

Beliefs may not be swayed, nor should they be forced onto peole who do not hold the same mindset.

OldNotWIse

floggg wrote: »

Protests do change minds in many instances. Especially where they use hard hitting imagery like aborted foetuses. They know exactly what they are doing using them.

Even if they don't always change minds they can raise awareness of the issue, galvanise support and raise cash money.

If people are so adamant that protests do change minds (and therefore think that the pro choice side are at some kind of unfair disadvantage) why not organise more of your pwn protests? If you really believe that they can be effective in changing peoples minds, why not do it? I've already voiced my disgust in relation to these protests (on both sides) but if the consensus is that the pro-life side is "galvanising support" and making some kind of profit then why not have more pro choice demos?

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

so because you beleive people already have strong views then there is no point in anyone doing anything?

Were you around when women were trying to get the vote? Or when divorce was being discussed?

No point in anyone doing anything if we were to go by your frame of thinking.

What does work is hugely funded propaganda campaigns diorected at young and vulnerable people. And we of such strong minds and beleifs should allow this? Wait until we are asked our opinion?

Perhaps if people actually took into account the views of the women who may need to seek an obortion, not just those people who have beleifs on the matter who will never ever need or want one, we might come to more reasonable conclusions.

Beliefs may not be swayed, nor should they be forced onto peole who do not hold the same mindset.

You cannot force someone to believe something.

dharma200

"If people are so adamant that protests do change minds (and therefore think that the pro choice side are at some kind of unfair disadvantage) why not organise more of your pwn protests? If you really believe that they can be effective in changing peoples minds, why not do it? I've already voiced my disgust in relation to these protests (on both sides) but the consensus is that the pro-life side is "galvanising support" and making some kind of profit then why not have more pro choice demos? " quote oldnotwise

Exactly. I think that this thread is highlighting to many people the need for just that. Glad I started it now
There are groups ect on fb which are looking towards just that thing...

dharma200

OldNotWIse wrote: »

You cannot force someone to believe something.

Indoctrination and propaganda both are factors in this debate.

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

"If people are so adamant that protests do change minds (and therefore think that the pro choice side are at some kind of unfair disadvantage) why not organise more of your pwn protests? If you really believe that they can be effective in changing peoples minds, why not do it? I've already voiced my disgust in relation to these protests (on both sides) but the consensus is that the pro-life side is "galvanising support" and making some kind of profit then why not have more pro choice demos? " quote oldnotwise

Exactly. I think that this thread is highlighting to many people the need for just that. Glad I started it now
There are groups ect on fb which are looking towards just that thing...

Good, it's got to be more effective (and fulfilling) than just complaining about the pro life movement on boards.

dharma200

well seeing as you dont think debating anything is worthwhille as no one will be swayed, the same to you and best of luck with waiting to be asked

ScumLord

OldNotWIse wrote: »

A welcome addition why exactly? Surely if you dont approve of one side protesting, you wouldn't approve of the other side protesting? Or could it be (perhaps) that you just dont like the point the first side are pushing?

It's going to show young pregnant women that there are other opinions out there. It's as simple as that really.

Fuinseog wrote: »

they were not allowed to their place of worship.

Isn't god everywhere though? I kind of agree with you up until you turn that statement around and it would become a case of a few Catholics preventing thousands of people from having a sporting event. People go to mass week in, week out for their entire lives, one Sunday isn't going to send god into another destructive range.

MagicSean

dharma200 wrote: »

They were handing out sweets to young children. No where in my OP did I say they were doing WRONG.

Maybe you need to read your op again.

dharma200 wrote: »

Yep, these religious fundamentalist crazies sunk to new lows.. witnessed a male placard waver, with usual image of feotus (do they not think of the little babies while subjecting them to the dangers of the 3d scan images they seem to like so much), handing out Roses sweets to children :mad:.... bleurgh to him and belurgh to roses....

Nice to see some pro choice people joining them an hour or so later...... Will be joining them next time,... I had my three kids with me, but would be good if a group was set up on fb, would love to see if the group of pro choice people that were there run a group or something. Would be up for a bit of placard waving at these loons, democracy and all that, tho definately not handing out sweets to children.. tooth rot, obesity ect ect

Rochelle

anamara86 wrote: »

.

Saw this today too and it really annoyed me that they were handing out Roses to children, felt it was completely inappropriate. A leaflet was shoved into my hand from one of the Pro Life group, which i subsequently shoved straight back into his hand, with a stern "No thanks".

Wow, that showed 'em!

I'd say you single-handedly derailed their whole campaign.

Don't mess with you...

OldNotWIse

dharma200 wrote: »

well seeing as you dont think debating anything is worthwhille as no one will be swayed, the same to you and best of luck with waiting to be asked

This doesn't even make sense, smacks of last word grabbing

OldNotWIse

bluewolf wrote: »

because you asked why

Ok makes sense now, sorry must have crossed wires

JohnMarston

Are children told anymore not to accept sweets from strangers?

ScumLord

JohnMarston wrote: »

Are children told anymore not to accept sweets from strangers?

It's not really applicable here. There's a guy screaming about murder and waving around signs with dead babies on them. You don't need to be taught not to take sweats of that person.

OldNotWIse

JohnMarston wrote: »

Are children told anymore not to accept sweets from strangers?

I thought strangers had given up on giving them sweets tbh What a cliche :rolleyes:

kowloon

I really hope the sweets were jelly babies. You have to choose a theme and run with it.

floggg

OldNotWIse wrote: »

floggg wrote: »

Protests do change minds in many instances. Especially where they use hard hitting imagery like aborted foetuses. They know exactly what they are doing using them.

Even if they don't always change minds they can raise awareness of the issue, galvanise support and raise cash money.

If people are so adamant that protests do change minds (and therefore think that the pro choice side are at some kind of unfair disadvantage) why not organise more of your pwn protests? If you really believe that they can be effective in changing peoples minds, why not do it? I've already voiced my disgust in relation to these protests (on both sides) but if the consensus is that the pro-life side is "galvanising support" and making some kind of profit then why not have more pro choice demos?

I'm sure there are pro-choice campaigners who do.

Just because I recognise the power of protest and expression, doesn't mean I actually have to do anything about it.

I don't feel that strongly on the issue (don't have a womb and unlikely to impregnate anybody accidentally) so its not really my fight.

Sorry for disagreeing with you.

OldNotWIse

floggg wrote: »

I'm sure there are pro-choice campaigners who do.

Just because I recognise the power of protest and expression, doesn't mean I actually have to do anything about it.

I don't feel that strongly on the issue (don't have a womb and unlikely to impregnate anybody accidentally) so its not really my fight.

Sorry for disagreeing with you.

er...some of us dont mind if other posters have different views!

dharma200

oldnotwise for someone that doesnt think debating or protesting either way makes a difference you seem to be doing both quite well here.

sunk to new lows is an opinion and doesnot say I think they have no right to protest.. I however disagree with the tactics they use, as is clearly stated in the title of this thread...

In your case, I think for someone who doesnt care about the protest and thinks protesting is for idiots, nor wants to be part of protesting and wants to just wait until asked
: the lady/man doth protest too much