"Need" an age card

Procrastastudy

Del2005 wrote: »

But an age card only works here and passports are lost all over the world, by drunken teenagers/non drunken teenagers and sober/drunk adults . If they didn't want Irish people using their passports as ID, which is impossible as it's the only internationally recognised ID we have, they should have legislated for it, not make it impossible for non nationals to use their passports to purchase goods in this country.

Also it makes it impossible for a non national, and technically me if I was ever asked for ID:(, to consume alcohol in this country if they only accept an ID that only locals can get.

You may well disagree with the legislation - but it doesn't change the fact its there or that SuperQuinn are following it. If you want the legislation changed get on to your local TD. The judge isn't allowed to change it either - the fact that he went into a discussion of legislative interpretation would also imply he may agree with you.

Jane2013

Hi

I would like to bring this topic back up.

I experience the same issue tonight in Superquinn. After work I decided to do some shopping , I went to the self service tills to purchase my products including wine, the pop up "approval needed" came up on the screen so I waited till the lady was available and when she was she asked for my ID. I took out my ID and the lady didn't even look at it, she just asked did I have a age card, I always carry my driving license and I am 29 years old and to be honest I didn't think there would be any issues, even thou I have been asked once before in the same store and they had no issues looking at my driving license. Working in retail I do understand age restriction is very important. But the lack of customer skills this lady had was very upsetting. I explained that I used my driving licensing in the past in the same store, her reply back was they only accept age cards. I don't know what to do or to even complain. I am not the kind of person to go off and complain or even to come on here complaining.

wmpdd3

All you can really complain about is the way you were asked for id out the way you were spoken to.

if you want to complain about the new policy then a letter to super Quinn HQ would be the best option.

Jane2013

wmpdd3 wrote: »

All you can really complain about is the way you were asked for id out the way you were spoken to.

if you want to complain about the new policy then a letter to super Quinn HQ would be the best option.

Thanks I think I will do that, What really annoys me also it doesn't state anywhere that only the age card is accepted.

Andy Magic

Superquinn must be raking it in if they can refuse business lke that.

Jane2013

Andy Magic wrote: »

Superquinn must be raking it in if they can refuse business lke that.

Yes it looks like they have no issues letting staff refuse customers, I would not mind if I did not have id.

SureYWouldntYa

its a well known fact that businesses are told to accept only Garda ID's as the form of ID to prove someone is over 18, and yet people are surprised when their passport or driving license is not accepted

LowKeyReturn

Andy Magic wrote: »

Superquinn must be raking it in if they can refuse business lke that.

You do two things in a business you rake it in the front and you stop it going out the back. The Age card is the only defence available and the only way for them to avoid fines. Not only that many places simply don't want the brand damage of a court finding against them.

It's a legislative measure - write to your local TD if you want it changed.

<Insert my usual rant about passports not being for this sort of thing>

TheJak01

Interesting this has been dragged back up, but I have had another similar thing happen at a nightclub in Dublin (albeit a few months ago).

So, heading out, now living in Edinburgh and back for christmas so still not acquired a Garda Age card, but with a German National ID card on me. Assumed this would be fine, I've used this to travel, and used it for identification and proof of age everywhere I have gone since getting it. At the nightclub however, I get turned away at the door as it's not a form of identification they accept.

Now, I realise that any establishment can choose what they can accept, and what they're going to refuse and this place was always going to be particularly pedantic as there are plenty of underage people chancing their arm. However, I did find it laughable that I got turned away at the door for a legitimate piece of identification. You'd think if I managed to enter Ireland using this thing (hence no passport) I'd be able to use it as proof of age, but apparently not. I'm not really overly fussed at this stage, but I was seething at the time!!

Do still think the age card system, and the legislation surrounding it, particularly making it the only accepted form of proof of age when buying alcohol needs to change a bit though. My mate in Edinburgh keeps getting turned away with it too, might not harm to have something a little bit more official so there's not as many potential panic calls regarding lost passports.

L1011

Is the "Age Card" actually available to people over 23 (I think) now? As its Garda-branded predecessor was not and that lead to a very heated argument in Tesco once. Told "the judge" had insisted they could only serve people with one despite explaining, in detail, that the bulk of people in the town couldn't actually get one.

Anywhere obstinate enough to insist on it isn't getting a cent from me - Tesco backed down that time. My partner's left an entire scanned load of shopping behind in Lidl once for the same reason.

LowKeyReturn

MYOB wrote: »

Is the "Age Card" actually available to people over 23 (I think) now? As its Garda-branded predecessor was not and that lead to a very heated argument in Tesco once. Told "the judge" had insisted they could only serve people with one despite explaining, in detail, that the bulk of people in the town couldn't actually get one.

Anywhere obstinate enough to insist on it isn't getting a cent from me - Tesco backed down that time. My partner's left an entire scanned load of shopping behind in Lidl once for the same reason.

Kudos to you for only supporting retailers with poor compliance! I take it teenage knackers hanging out outside your gaffe is only enhanced by them being drunk.

Also fair play to you for standing up to da man! By the man I mean some checkout bod in Tesco only trying to do their job. The law might be stupid but it's not got to the stage (yet) where it is written by employees of Tesco. Write to your TD and get the section amended rather than having a go at people doing what they've been told to do and legally required to do.

L1011

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Kudos to you for only supporting retailers with poor compliance! I take it teenage knackers hanging out outside your gaffe is only enhanced by them being drunk.

There is no legal requirement for them to accept only the Age Card - as detailed in the thread. Requiring an Age Card actually suggests extremely poor compliance - which is easier to fake, a ratty bit of plastic of a passport? All that accepting only the Age Card does it protect yourself against actually having to check something is fake or not. Its a cop out from actual responsible retailing and nothing more.

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Also fair play to you for standing up to da man! By the man I mean some checkout bod in Tesco only trying to do their job. The law might be stupid but it's not got to the stage (yet) where it is written by employees of Tesco. Write to your TD and get the section amended rather than having a go at people doing what they've been told to do and legally required to do.

The Manager of a branch is not "some checkout bod" and there is no legal requirement on them - there is zero specification that the Age Card is the only valid form of proof of age.

Retailers that require it are lazy and do not deserve my money.

LowKeyReturn

MYOB wrote: »

There is no legal requirement for them to accept only the Age Card - as detailed in the thread. Requiring an Age Card actually suggests extremely poor compliance - which is easier to fake, a ratty bit of plastic of a passport? All that accepting only the Age Card does it protect yourself against actually having to check something is fake or not. Its a cop out from actual responsible retailing and nothing more.



The Manager of a branch is not "some checkout bod" and there is no legal requirement on them - there is zero specification that the Age Card is the only valid form of proof of age.

Retailers that require it are lazy and do not deserve my money.

Have you read the legislation? The only defence is having requested an age card. This is why retailers have adjusted their due diligence.

L1011

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Have you read the legislation? The only defence is having requested an age card. This is why retailers have adjusted their due diligence.

Obviously. Did you? As you've significantly moved.position there

LowKeyReturn

MYOB wrote: »

Obviously. Did you? As you've significantly moved.position there

What position move? Why do you think the amendment was brought in? It's pretty obvious it was to force retailers into accepting only one form of ID. Common sense should be applied with a 35 year old with a drivers license but it'd better to err on the side of caution if there is any doubt as to age.

Passports should not be carried about for day to day use which leads us back to the age card.

Do you really think even store managers make policy on ID in their stores. Pop along to your local offie and support a local business, they can get to know your baby-face and you kill two birds with one stone.

Getting into a 'heated' argument over drink is just plainly stupid and possibly and indication of a bigger issue.

L1011

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

What position move? Why do you think the amendment was brought in? It's pretty obvious it was to force retailers into accepting only one form of ID. Common sense should be applied with a 35 year old with a drivers license but it'd better to err on the side of caution if there is any doubt as to age.

Passports should not be carried about for day to day use which leads us back to the age card.

Do you really think even store managers make policy on ID in their stores. Pop along to your local offie and support a local business, they can get to know your baby-face and you kill two birds with one stone.

Getting into a 'heated' argument over drink is just plainly stupid and possibly and indication of a bigger issue.

You swapped from claiming it was a hard and fast legal provision, then changed to understanding its down to (lazy) diligence decisions by retailers. Massive change there.

Should I point out - again - that the ridiculous Tesco lies happened when adults could not get a Garda ID?

LowKeyReturn

MYOB wrote: »

You swapped from claiming it was a hard and fast legal provision, then changed to understanding its down to (lazy) diligence decisions by retailers. Massive change there.

I'm not sure I did but if thats your interpretation fair enough.

MYOB wrote: »

Should I point out - again - that the ridiculous Tesco lies happened when adults could not get a Garda ID?

Well I've no way of know if it was a lie, I'll take your word fr it. That said there are reasons behind the legislative decision and getting snippy with retail employees isn't going to get you very far.

It's an especially bizarre law as it doesn't apply to pubs/clubs.

Yggr of Asgard

OP, as you are German, I would bring this to the attention of the EU if a EU passport is not accepted as proof of age for purchasing alcohol because as a non resident EU citizen one can not get an age card, hence this is discrimination and for sure that must be against some EU rule not being allowed to purchase alcohol if you are old enough according to local legislation but can't get some funny ID.

Jane2013

Rynox45 wrote: »

This really does seem stupid. If a passport can be used to travel between countries or take out a loan but can't be used to buy alcohol, it implies that smuggling or fraud are lesser concerns than under-aged drinking.

Agree very good point.

LowKeyReturn

Jane2013 wrote: »

Agree very good point.

It actually implies that, perhaps, the Irish government don't want quite a valuable document being used for every day purchasing of beer and fags. If a passport is lost is potentially could be a serious issue, not only for the state but the person that loses it.

That said as the legislation only applies to off-licenses and not pubs and bars we see the Irish legislator working at its usual 11% good sense and reason.

DesperateDan

Wait a minute, I don't have an Age card but do you not need a passport in order to obtain the Age card in the first place?! Otherwise how else do you prove who you are?

Del2005

DesperateDan wrote: »

Wait a minute, I don't have an Age card but do you not need a passport in order to obtain the Age card in the first place?! Otherwise how else do you prove who you are?

You get your age buy alcohol card with ID which can't be used to buy alcohol in this country!!

What documentation do I need to get my Age Card?
You will need the following:
• Your Birth Certificate or your GNIB (Garda National Immigration Bureau) Card or your valid Passport (in date)
• One other form of ID.
• One recent passport photograph.

That raises an issue. If it's illegal to serve alcohol to someone with a PP, then how is it legal to serve someone with a document verified by a document that can't be used to verify age when buying alcohol?

LowKeyReturn

Del2005 wrote: »

That raises an issue. If it's illegal to serve alcohol to someone with a PP, then how is it legal to serve someone with a document verified by a document that can't be used to verify age when buying alcohol?

It's not illegal it simply doesn't provide a defence.

The reasons for, what is clearly a public policy decision, have been gone over several times in this thread.

Del2005

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

It's not illegal it simply doesn't provide a defence.

The reasons for, what is clearly a public policy decision, have been gone over several times in this thread.

I know why they made it law that an Age card is the only from of ID acceptable to provide a defence of selling alcohol. But the fact that the from if ID from which you get your age card isn't an acceptable form of ID makes the Age Card not acceptable either. You can't say that a PP isn't a valid ID yet the ID you get with the PP is.

the groutch

is a passport really intended to be a proof of age though? or is it purely a travel document which happens to have a person's date of birth on it?

and I'd like to see how many people could tell a genuine German/French/Chinese etc. passport from a fake one?

ScottSF

Can someone explain what happens in pubs since from what I read above this "Age Card defense" legislation applies to off-licenses only? Do young people show their passport or EU national ID card and is that always accepted without question?

With millions of tourists visiting Ireland plus so many visiting students close to the legal age, I wonder how often tourists and foreign students have problems purchasing alcohol in pubs which is a lifeblood of the local economy. And why should this be any different legally than at an off license?

Fortunately for me I've reached an age where I look clearly over the legal age so never experienced this problem at off-licenses

LowKeyReturn

Del2005 wrote: »

I know why they made it law that an Age card is the only from of ID acceptable to provide a defence of selling alcohol. But the fact that the from if ID from which you get your age card isn't an acceptable form of ID makes the Age Card not acceptable either. You can't say that a PP isn't a valid ID yet the ID you get with the PP is.

You're missing the point ref passports thats been made a few times throughout this thread.

LowKeyReturn

ScottSF wrote: »

Can someone explain what happens in pubs since from what I read above this "Age Card defense" legislation applies to off-licenses only? Do young people show their passport or EU national ID card and is that always accepted without question?

With millions of tourists visiting Ireland plus so many visiting students close to the legal age, I wonder how often tourists and foreign students have problems purchasing alcohol in pubs which is a lifeblood of the local economy. And why should this be any different legally than at an off license?

Fortunately for me I've reached an age where I look clearly over the legal age so never experienced this problem at off-licenses

Anywhere can accept what they like, off licenses only have a defence re the age card. Pubs/clubs are still under the old system which I cant be bothered to look up the wording of

Perhaps the logic is that a tourist would be carrying around a passport and more likely to go into a pub than buy 6 cans of Dutch Gold from Spar. However as I've indicated I suspect there is very little logic to it and one part of the legislation has been taken in isolation.

Del2005

LowKeyReturn wrote: »

Anywhere can accept what they like, off licenses only have a defence re the age card. Pubs/clubs are still under the old system which I cant be bothered to look up the wording of

Perhaps the logic is that a tourist would be carrying around a passport and more likely to go into a pub than buy 6 cans of Dutch Gold from Spar. However as I've indicated I suspect there is very little logic to it and one part of the legislation has been taken in isolation.

What happens if a tourist, or anyone without an age card, wants to buy take out from a pub? They can legally be served alcohol in the pub with their PP but once they want to remove the alcohol from the pub they can't be served.

LowKeyReturn

Del2005 wrote: »

What happens if a tourist, or anyone without an age card, wants to buy take out from a pub? They can legally be served alcohol in the pub with their PP but once they want to remove the alcohol from the pub they can't be served.

Have a read of the liquor licensing acts. Short answer is I don't know, but again I assume you mean would they have a defence, as there is no issue with actually selling it to them in the first place, it's only if they turn out to be under-aged.