Is there a middle class political party?

Annasopra

smcgiff wrote: »

Corporates are more mobile than individuals, and while taxing a more successful company more, it may mean they are the very ones more capable of transferring out of ireland.

I think this threat of leaving Ireland is an empty vessel that they like to bully us with. We apparently don't like when the EU bullies us or tries to tell us what rates should be set for corporation tax. Why should we let corporarions bully us?

Annasopra

Daniel S wrote: »

Because it damages the profession. Engineers build, design, manufacture while solving problems. We don't go to college to fix your washing machine or install your boiler.

EDIT: Although, most of us love doing that!

Damages the profession! Protecting professions is just about creating power and enrichment

smcgiff

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this threat of leaving Ireland is an empty vessel that they like to bully us with. We apparently don't like when the EU bullies us or tries to tell us what rates should be set for corporation tax. Why should we let corporarions bully us?

Ireland is hugely successful at inward investment considering the size of our own market or our peripheral location in europe. We have other things going for us besides the low tax, but google et al aren't here employing thousands because of the craic and the guinness.

TwoShedsJackson

The middle class get the squeeze because they are the ones most likely to shut up and take it. They're comfortable enough not to riot.

Daniel S

mango salsa wrote: »

Damages the profession! Protecting professions is just about creating power and enrichment

For people who have worked for/earned it not those who just gave themselves the title to feel better and charge more. It also proves we are trustworthy and reputable.

You put your life in engineers hands just as much as you do with doctors.

Donnielighto

mango salsa wrote: »

Damages the profession! Protecting professions is just about creating power and enrichment

protecting the customers availing of the profession too. what if some random lad started callin himself a surgeon without any training?

it protects all involved, the professionals and the customers by maintaining a level of trust in the services being provided even if you dont know the person from adam

Donnielighto

mango salsa wrote: »

I think this threat of leaving Ireland is an empty vessel that they like to bully us with. We apparently don't like when the EU bullies us or tries to tell us what rates should be set for corporation tax. Why should we let corporarions bully us?

Is it a factor in why they came to us? If thats a yes then it would be a factor in any decision to leave. You cant discount it so flippantly.

Pumpkinseeds

Sinn Fein must be running short of funds, we had two of them rattling their collection buckets at us at the cashpoint yesterday afternoon, yeah good luck with that chaps, you won't be getting a cent of our cash. Try up north.

invinciblePRSTV

Colmustard wrote: »

FF (Gone forever I hope) FG even Labour are all centre left.

No they're not, don't be stupid.

Colmustard

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

No they're not, don't be stupid.

If they joined and si
at comfortable with FG I am afraid they are, so don't be naive and believe in the rather dullen brand that is labour.

Don't get me wrong I think this is the best government Ireland has had in years.

Although not certain yet but it is possible we will not need a second bail out. If so that will be a Houdini escape and very impressive.

Capt'n Midnight

FF leans towards farmers and construction industry

FG leans towards small business

PD's FF politicians getting FG votes


it's shades of green grey


FF bribe the electorate with future debt - it's worked since 1977 so don't expect them to change

They are the second most successful party in Europe Since the formation of the first Fianna Fáil government on 9 March 1932, the party has been in power for 61 of the last 80 years, Its single longest period out of office, in that time, has been 4 years and 4 months (March 1973–July 1977)

Most of the other time they were out of office was when everyone else got to pick up the pieces

kowloon

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

There is no middle class in Ireland. The majority of people in this country like it or lump it are working class. Yes we may now know our claret from our beaujolais still doesnt make us middle class. A programme that I think represents how fooking deluded some folks are here that they are all that is The Restaurant. You have these fooking gob****es seated around tables criticising food when you know they were reared on spuds and cabbage water. I am proud to be from an honest working class background and I dont need some descendants of cattle rustlers in a suit to reaffirm my ideology.

These things are wine :cool:.

Kurz

It seems like the idea being put forward here is that right wing = middle class and left wing = working class. This is a seriously unhelpful way to look at things, you only have to go to certain parts of South Dublin and look at the readership of the Irish Times to figure out that an awful lot of the middle class are left wing. The same could be said of a lot of small farmers and small business people outside of Dublin, usually low-earning working class who have very conservative views.

Linking right/left political division with working class/middle class is very tenuous. Like most posters in this thread I would agree with the idea that the middle class in Ireland is practically non-existent outside parts of South Dublin. Simply having a skilled job or being a graduate doesn't make you middle class.

smcgiff

Kurz wrote: »

It seems like the idea being put forward here is that right wing = middle class and left wing = working class. This is a seriously unhelpful way to look at things, you only have to go to certain parts of South Dublin and look at the readership of the Irish Times to figure out that an awful lot of the middle class are left wing. The same could be said of a lot of small farmers and small business people outside of Dublin, usually low-earning working class who have very conservative views.

Linking right/left political division with working class/middle class is very tenuous. Like most posters in this thread I would agree with the idea that the middle class in Ireland is practically non-existent outside parts of South Dublin. Simply having a skilled job or being a graduate doesn't make you middle class.

What do you think is MIDDLE class?

mikemac1

Kurz wrote: »

Simply having a skilled job or being a graduate doesn't make you middle class.

Yep, you must host candlelight suppers and you also need a Mercedes, swimming pool, and room for a pony.

PieForPi

mikemac1 wrote: »

If you work you are working class

Um, no. Maybe in your head that's how it works, but that's not the case in reality.

Anyway, FG/FF/Labour are all comprised of middle class people. The problem is, when it comes to tackling issues they just look to their own, afraid to disrupt the working class.

Hence why the middle class are currently being battered in this country and most certainly will be further in December's budget, while the working class and welfare class remain unscathed...yet insistent that they have it worst...!

Ideally I'd like to see the working class asked for a bit more (extending the low end of the lower tax bracket to include salaries of €15,000 or even less, the middle class asked for a little less (extending the upper end of the lower tax bracket to €35,000 or more from the current €32,800, thus giving middle class families a few more thousand per year as they're the ones spending in this country) and a new tax bracket introduced to get a bit more off the ultra wealthy.

I'd also like to see social incentives being revoked that have lead us to having a class of people who see the social welfare as a lifestyle choice.

As it stands, the pandering to the social welfare class and working class is coming at a cost to the future education of everyone's children (regardless of background, as easy access to education is the most socially equalising thing available), the healthcare system and more.

This isn't an inclusive Ireland, it's one where the middle earners support everyone else and the working class/welfare class then begrudge them for it. That needs to change and drastically so.

PieForPi

Kurz wrote: »

Simply having a skilled job or being a graduate doesn't make you middle class.

No but these things generally come with an above average income, which by loose definition puts said people into the middle class.

Galwayguy35

mikemac1 wrote: »

Where do farmers fit in?

Are they middle class as they can own land and property and equipment and machinery?

Or working class as its a laboring job?

Thread is about politics and nobody knows more about lobbying and using the vote then farmers

So what class are they?

And nowadays you go to Gurteen or do courses with Teagasc
Learn to be a farmer in the classroom

Depends on the amount and the quality of the land that they own.

Capt'n Midnight

mango salsa wrote: »

FG are not right wing?

That's the most hilarious thing I've ever read on the internet!

Oh boy


Almost all our parties here are centre-left by international standards.
The US Democrats are Fascists compared to what we have here.
How would you compare FG to Labour in the UK based on actions not speeches ?

Apart from some of the Greens differentiating policies the other parties are nearly indistinguishable from each other when compared to SF ( leave Europe, set up a new Albania, tax the rich, burn bondholders and everything foreign apart from imported fuel ) and SF aren't even extreme when you compare them to parties in other countries.

SocSocPol

Daniel S wrote: »

I'm not 100% certain, that's why I'm asking.

I suppose secular, low tax, privitisation of public transport/non-essential large expenses (ie not healthcare and education), liberal, higher corperation tax, no property tax, same VAT (or similar) and higher PAYE for a start.

So you want a low tax party which increases both corporation and income tax, you really have thought this out, haven't you:rolleyes:

Daniel S

SocSocPol wrote: »

So you want a low motor tax party which increases both corporation and income tax, you really have thought this out, haven't you:rolleyes:

I already said that was supposed to be motor tax... :rolleyes:

I'll change it now.

nacimroc

FG are FF mark 2!
FF are.. well..we all know
SF love the idea of Ireland in the 1800's
Labour want to give it all away and kill the working class.
Greens had some good policies but taxed the green **** out of us.

I spoil my vote. I reckon if everyone like me who has nobody to vote for spoiled their vote we would get someone to vote for. Its wrong to constantly vote for the least worse or as a lot of people I know, just vote to keep SF out as they are terrified of the consequences.

My bet would be a huge "shocking comeback" by FF in the next election. The people most affected by their mess and who would vote against them are busy working in Austrailian mines