abortion

Monty Burnz

PieForPi wrote: »

They're millionaires in their early 20s, are out living life... and what are you?

Probably the older brother.

christmas2012

Of course, women can't wait to get aborting. Its the highlight of their lives. They'll have "abort-ins", save one up for hen-nights. Same phenomena happened when they legalised teh ghey. Everyone went mad for the cock, except the wimmin, who went mad for the other thing.

Lets have the honest,bitter,unpalatable truth for once,abortions promote a careless sexual lifestyle whereby if you get pregnant you can just scratch out that part of your life,that life somehow becomes cheapened,and abortion for all is NOT THE ANSWER.

It sends out the WRONG MESSAGE TO GIRLS AND BOYS FULL STOP.You can have sex and NOT COMMIT.Sex used to be about committal now its about scratching that part of your life you if you dont like it,if it puts a dent on your current lifestyle YOU CAN SCRATCH IT OUT,how does that make sense.

Obviously i will be fair and give exception to those who were raped,or have an incestuous child,or otherwise have medical conditions or downs syndrome etc..

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

Lets have the honest,bitter,unpalatable truth for once,abortions promote a careless sexual lifestyle whereby if you get pregnant you can just scratch out that part of your life,that life somehow becomes cheapened,and abortion for all is NOT THE ANSWER...

So the only reason women don't have abortions is because its illegal. And once it is, they'll all be at it. Which is what I said, albeit in satirical form.

Your faith in the gender is commendable.

christmas2012

So nodin,do you think abortion should be for all women in all circumstances?

mikom

Nodin wrote: »

So the only reason women don't have abortions is because its illegal. And once it is, they'll all be at it.

They said it about condoms.......... they were wrong
They said it about porn.......... they were wrong
They said it about the right to vote.......... they were wrong

They say it about cannabis these days.........

christmas2012

They said it about condoms.......... they were wrong
They said it about porn.......... they were wrong
They said it about the right to vote.......... they were wrong

They say it about cannabis these days.........

its not as simple as that....they were wrong etc,its a serious issue and will have an impact on population growth something ireland cannot handle right now in a recession,and not just that,it makes sex very non committal,if you get pregnant and it doesnt suit your lifestyle........abortion....if it doesnt suit the relationship......abortion...the guy is too immature......abortion

Matt_Trakker

crazy cabbage wrote: »

Lets presume for a min that the sole does indeed exist

Dude of course sole exists
Proof here
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMJsHqjVac63z9_KtgF5F_1kdvATBtUrzZJ26Vuo-mOSQ5NmgrMA&t=1

mikom

christmas2012 wrote: »

if you get pregnant and it doesnt suit your lifestyle........abortion....if it doesnt suit the relationship......abortion...the guy is too immature......abortion

5% left in your Sky planner......abortion.........red sock in with the white wash......abortion.....

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

So nodin,do you think abortion should be for all women in all circumstances?

You mean "available as an option" presumably - yes indeed I do.

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

its not as simple as that....they were wrong etc,its a serious issue and will have an impact on population growth something ireland cannot handle right now in a recession,and not just that,it makes sex very non committal,if you get pregnant and it doesnt suit your lifestyle........abortion....if it doesnt suit the relationship......abortion...the guy is too immature......abortion

Course. You obviously know the wimminz well. They go mad with the abortin.

christmas2012

im not going down the route of abortion is wrong mmkay..but i think it should have a limit on it,it should only be available to suicidal rape victims,and those with medical problems or those with pregnancies such as downs or those incompatible with life etc..

that i would agree with,what i dont agree with and many people in ireland dont agree with is abortion on demand,whereby anybody can go in and get one done bc lets face it,they are thinking more about their lifestyle than the life they have,and that is pure selfish and careless..say what you like dress it up anyway you like but that is the truth of the matter..

anybody getting an abortion for ANY REASON .. to my mind and the minds and hearts of a lot of others in ireland is wrong..

Stabshauptmann

SmilingLurker wrote: »

No, people in this country still do what they are told. Shame on us, but no one to blame except ourselves.

Abortion is a tricky issue, one of the most divisive I wager, and I think the topic deserves a bit more respect than "religious = anti, smart = pro"

Stabshauptmann

I think one of the first things to be considered is Moral Hazard

And before I get the anti religion rant

If you think Moral hazard has anything to do with christian morals you are an idiot

Matt_Trakker

christmas2012 wrote: »

its not as simple as that....they were wrong etc,its a serious issue and will have an impact on population growth something ireland cannot handle right now in a recession,and not just that,it makes sex very non committal,if you get pregnant and it doesnt suit your lifestyle........abortion....if it doesnt suit the relationship......abortion...the guy is too immature......abortion

All appropriate reasons to get an abortion. I'd get one for those reasons, no bother, hop on a boat to Wales and no hassle whatsoever. But I'm not a woman, but if my partner wanted to get one I wouldn't object, her body, her rules.

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

im not going down the route of abortion is wrong mmkay....

Really? Then what the fuck is this about....?
.

christmas2012 wrote: »

anybody getting an abortion for ANY REASON .. to my mind and the minds and hearts of a lot of others in ireland is wrong..

hmmmm?

Stabshauptmann

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

All appropriate reason to get an abortion IN MY HUMBLE OPINION

Fixed your post.

blacklilly

Imo you're either for or against abortion this whole stance of oh its ok if pregnancy occurs through rape but not ok if contraception failed. That opinion is very hypocritical, if you think abortion is wrong then the circumstances in which pregnancy occurs should not be relevant.
Also even I'm beginning to think there's far too many threads about abortion recently. I think every possible argument for and against has been made

christmas2012

hmmmm?

by any reason i mean reasons like,how it will look in school ,or how it will look with my boyf,or how it will affect my lifestyle etc..

RDM_83 again

mikom wrote: »

They said it about condoms.......... they were wrong
They said it about porn.......... they were wrong
They said it about the right to vote.......... they were wrong

They say it about cannabis these days.........

In fairness about 1 in 5 (possibly 4) pregnancies in Britain (not UK) end in abortion, that a pretty high figure and you can bet considering the proportion of people that have strong views about it (e.g % of population that wouldn;t have one) that there's a considerable number of 'repeat' abortions.

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

by any reason i mean reasons like,how it will look in school ,or how it will look with my boyf,or how it will affect my lifestyle etc..

O yeah, I forgot how women will abort at the drop of a hat. Silly oul me.

Stabshauptmann

Nodin wrote: »

Really? Then what the fuck is this about....?
.


hmmmm?

Not putting words in the posters mouth, but from reading his post (I presume you only read the bits you selectively quote), he meant to say "any old reason", as in, a lackadaisical approach, rather than "any reason" meaning zero tolerance.

christmas2012

All appropriate reason to get an abortion.

not appropriate life happens,children can happen its a consequence of sex,this is the problem we have in ireland today,bc of these careless attitudes,throw it away forget about it scratch that part of your life out..but if you then try to get pregnant and then miscarry you might regret that abortion you had when you were young..

abortion is not that simple,and it shouldnt be widely available for many different reasons,including the psychological aftermath it can have on a young girl or young woman..it can be dire..

guys sometimes can push a girl into an abortion and it can be a big mistake a big regret years down the line..

its not something one thinks about when getting an abortion at first i would bet,but it can ruin lives..and affect the relationship you have with your partner negatively

Stabshauptmann

blacklilly wrote: »

Imo you're either for or against abortion this whole stance of oh its ok if pregnancy occurs through rape but not ok if contraception failed. That opinion is very hypocritical, if you think abortion is wrong then the circumstances in which pregnancy occurs should not be relevant.

I agree. I think that the moral aspect of abortion is down to whether or not you believe that a human life is being extinguished. I am against murder, but I am not against abortions at very early stages of pregnancy.

I would like any referendum put to me to state at what stage in a pregnancy abortions would be legal.

christmas2012

well..my opinion would be if it is limited to suicidal rape victims and those with medical conditions or downs etc..i would say yes but only limited to that alone..

mikom

christmas2012 wrote: »

well..my opinion would be if it is limited to suicidal rape victims and those with medical conditions or downs etc..i would say yes but only limited to that alone..

Would you include unfit parents in this?

christmas2012

anybody can be an unfit parent,they havent been tried and tested yet,so no i wouldnt it would depend on what you mean exactly by unfit parent are we talking a heroin addict?

mikom

christmas2012 wrote: »

anybody can be an unfit parent,they havent been tried and tested yet,so no i wouldnt it would depend on what you mean exactly by unfit parent are we talking a heroin addict?

Say living in a trailer, dad in and out of the slammer, child will be pulled out of school early and used to rear the following children......... Grounds for an abortion?

christmas2012

no,bc the child even though the circumstances are rough,just cost the dad is in and out of prison,the mother could be a good parent,and there is always fostering families who cant have their own children...

Sunnyisland

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

I agree. I think that the moral aspect of abortion is down to whether or not you believe that a human life is being extinguished. I am against murder, but I am not against abortions at very early stages of pregnancy.

I would like any referendum put to me to state at what stage in a pregnancy abortions would be legal.

This for me.

Matt_Trakker

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Fixed your post.

no you didn't.
It's an internet forum or course it's an opinion

*facepalm
*thumbsup

:rolleyes::rolleyes::p:p

christmas2012 wrote: »

abortion is not that simple

Actually it is..........if you want it to be.

I've two good female friends that had abortion, they don't regret it for a second and if I'd been in their situation I'd have done the same.

my my my

greenpilot wrote: »

Cardinal wants a referendum on abortion. Would he loose? Would there be a backlash against the church?

it's true , however a certain monk is in the election for the next cardinal. , and the earl wants a different cardinal to replace this cardinal, who would then be inferior in status terms, to his brother, the bishop, and his other brother the duke

Sunnyisland

my my my wrote: »

it's true , however a certain monk is in the election for the next cardinal. , and the earl wants a different cardinal to replace this cardinal, who would then be inferior in status terms, to his brother, the bishop, and his other brother the duke

Could you explain that in layman terms .

my my my

realies wrote: »

Could you explain that in layman terms .

i couldn't dumb it down any further

skeptik

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

Dude of course sole exists
Proof here
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMJsHqjVac63z9_KtgF5F_1kdvATBtUrzZJ26Vuo-mOSQ5NmgrMA&t=1

that made me cry laughing, kudos to you sir!

Gmol

PieForPi wrote: »

irish-stew wrote: »

Now if you do get pregnant, and decide you dont want it for lifestyle or financial reasons, well then maybe you should have taken the precautions, in that case then I dont think there should be an option for abortion.

Yeah! You should be forced to carry a child you don't want and go through a painful labour to birth it, then be forced to face it every day even though you may not have the physical, emotional or financial means to support it, until a point where it can support itself.

Oh but wait, you've an obligation to it for its first 18 years.

So your one little mistake should be with you for the next 18 years, despite safe alternatives being available.

How f*cking Irish. Although, perhaps I should have left this post alone when it was made by someone who went to a Catholic mass and expected something other than preachy bullsh*te.

Well you know how it happens so why don't you take precautions beforehand. If you're old enough to have sex be old enough to be responsible and that ain't catholic bs.

Sar_Bear

Personally, I think it should be available to everyone.

This "take responsibility for your actions" crap is just that, crap. Let's say a woman finds out in the morning she is pregnant. She knows there's no way she can financially manage having a child, and if she did have it, the child would be living a life of poverty.. That's ok?

Or she's not emotionally or mentally able for it.. That she will not be able to cope, and there's a risk of her becoming unstable and a poor parent? Then in later years she may resent her child for causing this.

A child being born into an abusive home.. That's ok?

The thought of women getting abortions "just cause" is stupid. Just because it's legal doesn't mean people will do it. If someone wants an abortion, they'll do it, is it not fair that we provide this service in the country?

krudler

christmas2012 wrote: »

not appropriate life happens,children can happen its a consequence of sex,this is the problem we have in ireland today,bc of these careless attitudes,throw it away forget about it scratch that part of your life out..but if you then try to get pregnant and then miscarry you might regret that abortion you had when you were young..

abortion is not that simple,and it shouldnt be widely available for many different reasons,including the psychological aftermath it can have on a young girl or young woman..it can be dire..

guys sometimes can push a girl into an abortion and it can be a big mistake a big regret years down the line..

its not something one thinks about when getting an abortion at first i would bet,but it can ruin lives..and affect the relationship you have with your partner negatively

you can replace "abortion" with "having a baby" and your entire post can be the same thing.

krudler

Sar_Bear wrote: »

Personally, I think it should be available to everyone.

This "take responsibility for your actions" crap is just that, crap. Let's say a woman finds out in the morning she is pregnant. She knows there's no way she can financially manage having a child, and if she did have it, the child would be living a life of poverty.. That's ok?

Or she's not emotionally or mentally able for it.. That she will not be able to cope, and there's a risk of her becoming unstable and a poor parent? Then in later years she may resent her child for causing this.

A child being born into an abusive home.. That's ok?

The thought of women getting abortions "just cause" is stupid. Just because it's legal doesn't mean people will do it. If someone wants an abortion, they'll do it, is it not fair that we provide this service in the country?

No, better to add to the decision by making women take a boat or plane ride to a different country and then have to come back instead of being given support and care here.

blacklilly

Matt_Trakker wrote: »

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Fixed your post.

no you didn't.
It's an internet forum or course it's an opinion

*facepalm
*thumbsup

:rolleyes::rolleyes::p:p

christmas2012 wrote: »

abortion is not that simple

Actually it is..........if you want it to be.

I've two good female friends that had abortion, they don't regret it for a second and if I'd been in their situation I'd have done the same.

I'm glad your friends have not suffered negatively from having abortions, however I too have a number of friends and all but one have suffered badly, thankfully most of them have gone to counselling. so just because your friends have not suffered does not mean others haven't.
If abortion was without risk and morally ok it would have been legalised a long time ago, it can (I'm not saying always) have a very damaging impact on a woman. Also it was initially legalised in the UK for pregnancies where the mothers life was in risk or for serious fetal abnormalities yet tens of thousands of healthy pregnancies are aborted in the UK annually. Where it is legal, it is being abused

shruikan2553

I cant remember where it was but I read a list of stories from people who work in abortion clinics of people who came in looking for an abortion. People will say they are against it but as soon as it suits them they will say that abortion is wrong, but their circumstance is the exception. Even after they had it done they would tell the people working there that they are horrible people.

The argument of "only if it was rape" doesn't hold much ground for me either, you are still ending the life of the "child" for the actions of others, why should someone lose their life because of what someone else did.

Anything religious is no reason to base laws on, I'm an atheist so why should they be forced to live a certain way because your book says so?

If we allow the morning after pill I see no reason not to allow abortions during the first term. Second term is more grey for me. Third is a no, if it can live outside of the womb then I think it should be put up for adoption instead.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

im not going down the route of abortion is wrong mmkay..but i think it should have a limit on it,it should only be available to suicidal rape victims,and those with medical problems or those with pregnancies such as downs or those incompatible with life etc..

that i would agree with,what i dont agree with and many people in ireland dont agree with is abortion on demand,whereby anybody can go in and get one done bc lets face it,they are thinking more about their lifestyle than the life they have,and that is pure selfish and careless..say what you like dress it up anyway you like but that is the truth of the matter..

anybody getting an abortion for ANY REASON .. to my mind and the minds and hearts of a lot of others in ireland is wrong..

So basically it should, in your eyes, only be available if you have to suffer for it.
If there's one thing that I really hate it's people who use this line.

It's all or none, conception details should not come into it.

Benji1974

As a wise men once said: if men could get pregnant there would be abortion clinics on every street corner and there would never have been any moral debate around the issue.

I agree that prevention is better than cure but mistakes do happen and always will. Abortion needs to be an option in this country and it will be. Thankfully the number of brainwashed wicked fanatics in this country is dwindling.

The term Pro-life is nonsense. The term Anti-abortion makes much more sense.

hattoncracker

Benji1974 wrote: »

As a wise men once said: if men could get pregnant there would be abortion clinics on every street corner and there would never have been any moral debate around the issue.

I agree that prevention is better than cure but mistakes do happen and always will. Abortion needs to be an option in this country and it will be. Thankfully the number of brainwashed wicked fanatics in this country is dwindling.

The term Pro-life is nonsense. The term Anti-abortion makes much more sense.

I tthink Pro Pregnancy was a better one, because they don't stick around after birth.

christmas2012

thats the problem its too widely available and when women get stung by abortion,its not talked about or as widely advertised as lets say getting an abortion,you see adverts for marie stopes clinics everywhere in the UK - they should come with a health warning.

abortion is not that simple

Actually it is..........if you want it to be.

Actually no its not that simple,its a decision a woman/girl has to live out the rest of her life for,it is sometimes more than tinged with regret,some women go on to try having a child in later years(as is the case in ireland now)and it is too late ,or she miscarries cos she is in her thirties..

So its not as straighforward as you make out,some women feel unwanted after their abortion,after an immature image concious guy might have pestered them into it..

Abortion is never simple,and doing it for a number of reasons is wrong,it should only be for emergency situations,but of course once you let that happen it could be unfortuantely a case of a foot in the door,i hate to sound like a cynic but thats how it could be made out to be..

It's all or none, conception details should not come into it.

Point out where exactly i said conception details should come into it,i said before that if it was a downs or something completey malformed where it was incompatible with life,or the woman was a suicidal victim of rape,or had other life threateing medical conditions,i would see fit to consider abortion as a last resort..

The problem with abortion for all is that you will find many women/girls going for them for all kinds of reasons,which doesnt make it right,and they havent even yet in their own minds considered the aftermath of such a decision they have to live the rest of their lives to deal with,it is a traumatic experience..

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

thats the problem its too widely available and when women get stung by abortion,its not talked about or as widely advertised as lets say getting an abortion,you see adverts for marie stopes clinics everywhere in the UK - they should come with a health warning.

abortion is not that simple

Actually it is..........if you want it to be.

Actually no its not that simple,its a decision a woman/girl has to live out the rest of her life for,it is sometimes more than tinged with regret,some women go on to try having a child in later years(as is the case in ireland now)and it is too late ,or she miscarries cos she is in her thirties..

So its not as straighforward as you make out,some women feel unwanted after their abortion,after an immature image concious guy might have pestered them into it..

Abortion is never simple,and doing it for a number of reasons is wrong,it should only be for emergency situations,but of course once you let that happen it could be unfortuantely a case of a foot in the door,i hate to sound like a cynic but thats how it could be made out to be..

Do you not use the same public transport as the rest of us? have you not seen those ridiculous ad campaigns for Youth Defence that are plastered everywhere?

Abortion generally is used for emergency situations... But your definition and someome else's definition of emergency could be totally different. It ain't called crisis pregnancy for nothing.

And Christmas, do you not think that the reason so many women have adverse reactions to it is because there are no adequate post abortion counselling services in Ireland? Or that it's such a taboo subject that it can be really hard to open up about it to anyone for fear of judgement? Or because theyre made feel like criminals?

christmas2012

It ain't called crisis pregnancy for nothing.

crisis pregnancy could be someone in their 20's or a late teen,in a stable relationship,and yet there are people like that(who are not victims of rape,do not bear a handicapped life,and who dont have any other life threatening complications)getting abortions just like that?It makes it more of a consumer service than anything and not a medical procedure used with CAUTION.

Thats the problem I have with it,and many others in ireland.If you were a politician you would see leglislating abortion would have DIRE consequences on population growth in ireland,we already have an ageing population in ireland theres no baby boom here,and thats another problem if there is NO POPULATION THERE IS NO MONEY WE ARE A SMALL ISLAND.Sometimes you have to do what makes sense,and not give in to some expectant mother who thinks she should have an abortion bc her boyf said so etc..Not a good enough reason in my eyes..

IvySlayer

I seriously doubt there will be a referendum. The government won't want to tackle this issue. It's a lose-lose issue for parties. Financially the medical system is stretched enough as it is without having to add abortion clinics and staff them.

Pherekydes

Savage Tyrant wrote: »

When you look at Jedward bouncing around the place it almost seems criminal that their mother didn't have the option of aborting them.

In fact, I think she should be allowed (possibly forced) to abort them now.

I thought there were bans for this sort of thing.


/yeah, yeah, backseat modding and all that.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

Obviously i will be fair and give exception to those who were raped,or have an incestuous child,or otherwise have medical conditions or downs syndrome etc..

You specified conception here;

christmas2012 wrote: »

im not going down the route of abortion is wrong mmkay..but i think it should have a limit on it,it should only be available to suicidal rape victims,and those with medical problems or those with pregnancies such as downs or those incompatible with life etc..
.

here...

christmas2012 wrote: »

well..my opinion would be if it is limited to suicidal rape victims and those with medical conditions or downs etc..i would say yes but only limited to that alone..

here...

christmas2012 wrote: »

thats the problem its too widely available and when women get stung by abortion,its not talked about or as widely advertised as lets say getting an abortion,you see adverts for marie stopes clinics everywhere in the UK - they should come with a health warning.




Actually no its not that simple,its a decision a woman/girl has to live out the rest of her life for,it is sometimes more than tinged with regret,some women go on to try having a child in later years(as is the case in ireland now)and it is too late ,or she miscarries cos she is in her thirties..

So its not as straighforward as you make out,some women feel unwanted after their abortion,after an immature image concious guy might have pestered them into it..

Abortion is never simple,and doing it for a number of reasons is wrong,it should only be for emergency situations,but of course once you let that happen it could be unfortuantely a case of a foot in the door,i hate to sound like a cynic but thats how it could be made out to be..





Point out where exactly i said conception details should come into it,i said before that if it was a downs or something completey malformed where it was incompatible with life,or the woman was a suicidal victim of rape,or had other life threateing medical conditions,i would see fit to consider abortion as a last resort..

oh, and right here! Pregnancy from rape is just as viable as one from consensual sex, there will, in 90% of the cases, be no health issues in the foetus. So why should this be any different for a rape victim than a loving couple who don't want kids?

christmas2012

oh, and right here! Pregnancy from rape is just as viable as one from consensual sex, there will, in 90% of the cases, be no health issues in the foetus. So why should this be any different for a rape victim than a loving couple who don't want kids?

If the rape victim is okay with adoption then i would have no problem with it whatsoever..