abortion

whendovescry

'Keep your hands off my eggs, Benedict'

poster in London during an anti-pope rally.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

crisis pregnancy could be someone in their 20's or a late teen,in a stable relationship,and yet there are people like that(who are not victims of rape,do not bear a handicapped life,and who dont have any other life threatening complications)getting abortions just like that?It makes it more of a consumer service than anything and not a medical procedure used with CAUTION.

Thats the problem I have with it,and many others in ireland.If you were a politician you would see leglislating abortion would have DIRE consequences on population growth in ireland,we already have an ageing population in ireland theres no baby boom here,and thats another problem if there is NO POPULATION THERE IS NO MONEY WE ARE A SMALL ISLAND.Sometimes you have to do what makes sense,and not give in to some expectant mother who thinks she should have an abortion bc her boyf said so etc..Not a good enough reason in my eyes..

We have the highest birth rates in Europe, we can barely afford to educate the children we have, and stats have already predicted that our school populations are set to increase over the next 20 years.

Yes, there are people who are having abortions because they don't have the money for children. The country is in an appalling state, people in their late teens/early twenties know there is no hope for them to get any jobs without an education; and can't get an education with a kid without some serious support from families, who may not have the inclination or the money, so what? Go on welfare, get a house, stay on the dole. A lot of women have higher aspirations than that.

SocSocPol

Abortion is a civil right, the Supreme Court has already ruled that a woman has the right to abortion in certain circumstances, thus essentially legalising abortion in Ireland (X Case).In subsequent referendum the people backed that ruling.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

If the rape victim is okay with adoption then i would have no problem with it whatsoever..

You're missing the point. Why should she be able to end a viable pregnancy if 'we need the babies' if a woman who conceived consensually cannot?

christmas2012

Its illegal in ireland to get an abortion though,the x case was an exception..

You're missing the point. Why should she be able to end a viable pregnancy if 'we need the babies'?

No i answered your previous questions,scroll up and see,i have said if it is a case of a suicidal rape victim where there is threat to the life of the mother and foetus,then it is possibly best to have the termination..

christmas2012

Go on welfare, get a house, stay on the dole. A lot of women have higher aspirations than that.

How do you know that that woman could have picked herself up,sometimes having a child makes you grow up and do whats important if you have mouths to feed and all that..

Some people give up too easily..

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

Its illegal in ireland to get an abortion though,the x case was an exception..



No i answered your previous questions,scroll up and see,i have said if it is a case of a suicidal rape victim where there is threat to the life of the mother and foetus,then it is possibly best to have the termination..

That is what you said, and I know that, and I am asking you, why should a rape victim have more of a right to an abortion than a baby that was conceived consensually? There is no difference in the foetus, just in your own morality -ie, it should only be available if you have to suffer the most traumatic of circumstances.

PieForPi

christmas2012 wrote: »

im not going down the route of abortion is wrong mmkay..but i think it should have a limit on it,it should only be available to suicidal rape victims,and those with medical problems or those with pregnancies such as downs or those incompatible with life etc..

that i would agree with,what i dont agree with and many people in ireland dont agree with is abortion on demand,whereby anybody can go in and get one done bc lets face it,they are thinking more about their lifestyle than the life they have,and that is pure selfish and careless..say what you like dress it up anyway you like but that is the truth of the matter..

anybody getting an abortion for ANY REASON .. to my mind and the minds and hearts of a lot of others in ireland is wrong..

christmas2012 wrote: »

well..my opinion would be if it is limited to suicidal rape victims and those with medical conditions or downs etc..i would say yes but only limited to that alone..

What the fúck is this?

So if a woman is raped but you know, doesn't fancy killing herself but at the same time doesn't want the child, in your view she should be made have it, because ya know, she could just be abusing its availability?

What an utterly bizarre, if not sick, stance.

You mentioned people using it as a lifestyle choice also...exactly how many women do you know that are raring to ditch the pill, condoms, morning after pill etc. so they can have protection free sex and just go and have it sucked out of them should they fall pregnant?

I'm guessing you probably don't know many women at all, if you believe this is common.

Oh and one more point, if someone WAS to choose abortion as a lifestyle, then it's FAR, FAR better that someone of such a mind is free to not become responsible for the upbringing of a child than to force some poor unfortunate child to spend 18 years being raised by such a person.

You don't talk much sense at all on here, in general, but this "it should be limited to rape victims...but only if they're suicidal" shít really takes the biscuit.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

How do you know that that woman could have picked herself up,sometimes having a child makes you grow up and do whats important if you have mouths to feed and all that..

Some people give up too easily..

Or some people don't want to end up resenting their children, go through the trauma and potential health risks of pregnancy, the judgement of small-town mentality or being disowned by their family or whatever reason that they decide they don't want to have a child. Why do they not get a choice?

SocSocPol

christmas2012 wrote: »

Its illegal in ireland to get an abortion though,the x case was an exception..



No i answered your previous questions,scroll up and see,i have said if it is a case of a suicidal rape victim where there is threat to the life of the mother and foetus,then it is possibly best to have the termination..

No it is most definitley not illegal, I suggest you read the X Case ruling. Even the anti choice brigade admit that the X Case legalized abortion in Ireland.
http://www.thelifeinstitute.net/history/the-x-case/

"As a result of that decision, technically any pregnant woman is entitled to have an abortion (even up to 9 months – there is no time limit to the Supreme Court judgement) if she claims to be suicidal as a result of the pregnancy – an extremely difficult condition to disprove – and furthermore, she may technically have the abortion carried out in Ireland if a doctor agreed to perform it

efb

I think abortions should be mandatory for catholics so we can create a utopian secular state*





















*not really.

Abortions are no concern of mine, so I wont impose my beliefs on others.

PieForPi

christmas2012 wrote: »

How do you know that that woman could have picked herself up,sometimes having a child makes you grow up and do whats important if you have mouths to feed and all that..

Some people give up too easily..

Ah yeah sure force women who get pregnant accidentally to go through the 9 months of pregnancy and then a painful labour at the end of it, then be burdened with a child they possibly never wanted for the next 18 years minimum...sure won't it teach them a bit of maturity, what?

Ah yeah sure they tried contraception but it failed and she got pregnant, but fúck her right to a life, right? Make her have the kid, it'll teach the whore some manners, right man? Maybe she'll learn to close her legs then, huh? Bleedin' slappers.

Sure their da's should have bate the whorish tendencies out of them with their premarital sex and the like long ago, right buddy?

hattoncracker

PieForPi wrote: »

Ah yeah sure force women who get pregnant accidentally to go through the 9 months of pregnancy and then a painful labour at the end of it, then be burdened with a child they possibly never wanted for the next 18 years minimum...sure won't it teach them a bit of maturity, what?

Ah yeah sure they tried contraception but it failed and she got pregnant, but fúck her right to a life, right? Make her have the kid, it'll teach the whore some manners, right man? Maybe she'll learn to close her legs then, huh? Bleedin' slappers.

Sure their da's should have bate the whorish tendencies out of them with their premarital sex and the like long ago, right buddy?

Pretty sure Christmas is a woman, just so you know guys.

PieForPi

christmas2012 wrote: »

The problem with abortion for all is that you will find many women/girls going for them for all kinds of reasons,which doesnt make it right,and they havent even yet in their own minds considered the aftermath of such a decision they have to live the rest of their lives to deal with,it is a traumatic experience..

It's their bodies and the rest of their lives so who are you, or anyone else for that matter, to tell them what they can and can't do with it?

If they want to do it, they should be allowed to do it as they will be the ones living with any consequences, not YOU.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

that i would agree with,what i dont agree with and many people in ireland dont agree with is abortion on demand,whereby anybody can go in and get one done bc lets face it,they are thinking more about their lifestyle than the life they have,and that is pure selfish and careless..say what you like dress it up anyway you like but that is the truth of the matter..
..

Their life, not yours.
And I wouldn't worry too much, if your friends know you and your opinions well enough I doubt they would confide in you about this, so you wouldn't have to worry about knowing something that doesn't directly affect you.

ON THE OP: I'm not sure whether an abortion referendum would win this time, but I know the gap would be a damn sight narrower. If young people get involved in the referendum; and actually go out and vote it has a higher rate of passing, but I think they'd have to be prepared for it because this topic really brings out the crazies, if I were Enda Kenny I would arrange to have it during my last month in office.

hairyprincess

Abortion is a fiercely difficult issue that divides people.

I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp. I believe abortion for the sake of an abortion should be heavily opposed. Personal responsibility takes precedent over a life. Abortion for the sake of a baby who doctors claim will not live or will be seriously deformed/damaged should be opposed. Doctors get things wrong, as a mother I could never take that risk.

However in the case of rape, I would never want to see anyone be forced to carry and give birth to a baby which was conceived so traumatically.

hattoncracker

hairyprincess wrote: »

Abortion is a fiercely difficult issue that divides people.

I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp. I believe abortion for the sake of an abortion should be heavily opposed. Personal responsibility takes precedent over a life. Abortion for the sake of a baby who doctors claim will not live or will be seriously deformed/damaged should be opposed. Doctors get things wrong, as a mother I could never take that risk.

However in the case of rape, I would never want to see anyone be forced to carry and give birth to a baby which was conceived so traumatically.

I don't know if I could agree with you on the bolded part, I think having to carry a baby to term who had little to no chance of life, being asked what you're going to call it, whether it's a boy or girl, feeling it grow and move around inside you, going through labour knowing that you'll probably only hold your baby a handful of times before you have to bury it is just awful.

You may not make the choice to abort but I do think that choice should definitely be given to other women.

PieForPi

hairyprincess wrote: »

Abortion is a fiercely difficult issue that divides people.

I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp. I believe abortion for the sake of an abortion should be heavily opposed. Personal responsibility takes precedent over a life. Abortion for the sake of a baby who doctors claim will not live or will be seriously deformed/damaged should be opposed. Doctors get things wrong, as a mother I could never take that risk.

However in the case of rape, I would never want to see anyone be forced to carry and give birth to a baby which was conceived so traumatically.

So a woman who gets pregnant by accident from enjoying something all adults do should be forced to go through with the pregnancy and the 18 years (legal minimum) of rearing the child simply because she wasn't forced to have sex?

So because she wasn't forced into one thing, you want to force her into the other? When there is a safe alternative available?

Bizarre way of looking at it as far as I'm concerned. If you're of the belief that a life is being destroyed, which I personally am not, then you should be as appalled by a rape victim being able to abort as someone whose contraception failed and is availing of an abortion.

A lot of people, including women, are giving very little credit to other women. There's an underlying implication from a lot of posters here that abortion being available will make a load of women use it as their only contraception. I don't know any women that stupid, maybe you do, who knows, but if they're dumb enough to style their life in such a way then they most certainly should not be responsible for the upbringing of a child, hence furthering the argument for wide access to the service.

hairyprincess

PieForPi wrote: »

hairyprincess wrote: »

Abortion is a fiercely difficult issue that divides people.

I'm in the six of one, half a dozen of the other camp. I believe abortion for the sake of an abortion should be heavily opposed. Personal responsibility takes precedent over a life. Abortion for the sake of a baby who doctors claim will not live or will be seriously deformed/damaged should be opposed. Doctors get things wrong, as a mother I could never take that risk.

However in the case of rape, I would never want to see anyone be forced to carry and give birth to a baby which was conceived so traumatically.

So a woman who gets pregnant by accident from enjoying something all adults do should be forced to go through with the pregnancy and the 18 years (legal minimum) of rearing the child simply because she wasn't forced to have sex?

So because she wasn't forced into one thing, you want to force her into the other? When there is a safe alternative available?

Bizarre way of looking at it as far as I'm concerned. If you're of the belief that a life is being destroyed, which I personally am not, then you should be as appalled by a rape victim being able to abort as someone whose contraception failed and is availing of an abortion.

A lot of people, including women, are giving very little credit to other women. There's an underlying implication from a lot of posters here that abortion being available will make a load of women use it as their only contraception. I don't know any women that stupid, maybe you do, who knows, but if they're dumb enough to style their life in such a way then they most certainly should not be responsible for the upbringing of a child, hence furthering the argument for wide access to the service.

I'm not forcing her into something else. She chose to have sex. She's an adult, having sex with another adult. If they aren't mature enough to deal with the consequences of their actions then they shouldn't be having sex.

Sar_Bear

So basically people who aren't ready or never want to have kids shouldn't be having sex? :rolleyes:

hattoncracker

hairyprincess wrote: »

I'm not forcing her into something else. She chose to have sex. She's an adult, having sex with another adult. If they aren't mature enough to deal with the consequences of their actions then they shouldn't be having sex.

"well, you're stuck with it now." should never be a reason to become a parent.

histories

christmas2012 wrote: »

Lets have the honest,bitter,unpalatable truth for once,abortions promote a careless sexual lifestyle whereby if you get pregnant you can just scratch out that part of your life,that life somehow becomes cheapened,and abortion for all is NOT THE ANSWER.

It sends out the WRONG MESSAGE TO GIRLS AND BOYS FULL STOP.You can have sex and NOT COMMIT.Sex used to be about committal now its about scratching that part of your life you if you dont like it,if it puts a dent on your current lifestyle YOU CAN SCRATCH IT OUT,how does that make sense.

Obviously i will be fair and give exception to those who were raped,or have an incestuous child,or otherwise have medical conditions or downs syndrome etc..

Indeed, let's have the honest, bitter, unpalatable truth for once. Deciding to have an abortion is THE single most difficult decision that any woman will ever have to make in her life. She will live with it for the rest of her life. This is the truth as much as you may not wish to believe it. Abortion does not promote careless sex. It provides women with an option. An option that is needed in this world due to the fact that the world we live in is so very far from perfect. People need choices and abortion has to be one of them.

As for the "you can have sex and not commit" comment, how many single mothers are out there because the man decided he didn't want to commit? We do live in a society where people have sex before marriage. Even if we lived in a world where there was no sex before marriage and no divorce people can still up and disappear because they have had enough of their lives. So the whole sex=commitment is a moot point really.

"Obviously i will be fair and give exception..." how very kind of you.

PieForPi

hairyprincess wrote: »

I'm not forcing her into something else. She chose to have sex. She's an adult, having sex with another adult. If they aren't mature enough to deal with the consequences of their actions then they shouldn't be having sex.

That argument doesn't hold much weight.

Yes, you are forcing her into something. That something being carrying and giving birth to a child she doesn't want, then providing for the child she doesn't want until it is of a legal age where she no longer has an obligation to it.

She may well have to do this alone also. Whereas, with access to abortion, she could remove the problem and carry on with her life, having a child when she was ready for it.

Abstinence holds no weight with me, father. Sex is the most natural thing we do. Its urges are something we are burdened with from a very young age and which govern a range of our decisions every moment of every day, subconsciously or consciously.

Society has evolved to a point where we can enjoy our sexual urges, which has a lot of benefits for our overall health, without an expectation of pregnancy. Accidents happen and exceptions happen and we now have the medical advances to deal with them in a quick and safe manner.

Instead, you want to say "fúck your aspirations and hopes for your life, you're having this child because I disagree with you not having it, despite it not impacting my life in any way".

That is extremely oppressive. Who are you to say what they can and cannot do with their bodies? If someone is immature and stupid enough to use the service as their primary contraception then let them, society and the gene pool is better off without them breeding. Do you understand why?

christmas2012

Abortion does not promote careless sex. It provides women with an option.

It gives a girl an option an option to scratch out the consequences of having sex with some stranger,or indeed even her long term boyfriend,when the sh!t hits the fan they dont want to know they just want to immeidately get rid of the 'problem',instead of facing it head on and maybe becoming a better or more mature person as a result of it..

So basically people who aren't ready or never want to have kids shouldn't be having sex?

if they are not prepared for the consequences of sex yes they shouldnt be having it,abortion can ruin lives too,those marie stopes clinics and their adverts should come with health warnings,the aftermath of an abortion can be VERY TRAUMATIC,AS WELL AS THE PROCEDURE ITSELF..

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

Abortion does not promote careless sex. It provides women with an option.

It gives a girl an option an option to scratch out the consequences of having sex with some stranger,or indeed even her long term boyfriend,when the sh!t hits the fan they dont want to know they just want to immeidately get rid of the 'problem',instead of facing it head on and maybe becoming a better or more mature person as a result of it..

So how many women do you know, and what evidence do you have to support these claims?

And why shouldn't she be able to "scratch it out" if she wants to? And why shouldn't she be able to get rid of the "problem?"

christmas2012

Thats the issue,its no longer seen as a valid consequence to have a family as a result of sex,it is now viewed as a problem that interferes with a sex life which is completely wrong,and sends out the wrong message to young teens and adults - that its okay to have sex without thinking of what the consequences might be,we live in the age of the throw away mentality and its basically saying there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES DO WHAT YOU LIKE,this is the reason why we have so many young people getting stung by abortion,and not to mention the rise in stds,live is not consequence free ,eventually you get caught out..

saiint

its the girls decision
if she wants the baby, she keeps it
if she doesnt want it, she can get an abortion
one way or another with out your say or the churchs say or even a poll in ireland preventing women from abortion
their still going to have an abortion if they want one,
dont know why some people are seriously over reacting to this (men) especially since you guys have no idea what its like to carry a baby (same as meself) until 'man' can truely understand what its like to carry a child for 9months
we shouldnt even have a say in all this, only women should be allowed until it comes to a time where your partner wants or doesnt want one when you do or dont want her to have one

lazygal

christmas2012 wrote: »

Thats the issue,its no longer seen as a valid consequence to have a family as a result of sex,it is now viewed as a problem that interferes with a sex life which is completely wrong,and sends out the wrong message to young teens and adults - that its okay to have sex without thinking of what the consequences might be,we live in the age of the throw away mentality and its basically saying there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES DO WHAT YOU LIKE,this is the reason why we have so many young people getting stung by abortion,and not to mention the rise in stds,live is not consequence free ,eventually you get caught out..

How many unwanted children have you adopted? You can have whatever opinions you like on who's having sex and what they do afterwards with an unwanted pregnancy, but if what they do doesn't affect your life, why do you care? I couldn't care less who has a baby or who has an abortion, because it doesn't affect my life, unlike having a child you don't want.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

Thats the issue,its no longer seen as a valid consequence to have a family as a result of sex,it is now viewed as a problem that interferes with a sex life which is completely wrong,and sends out the wrong message to young teens and adults - that its okay to have sex without thinking of what the consequences might be,we live in the age of the throw away mentality and its basically saying there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES DO WHAT YOU LIKE,this is the reason why we have so many young people getting stung by abortion,and not to mention the rise in stds,live is not consequence free ,eventually you get caught out..

"caught out" "consequence", very healthy attitude to parenting, I must say.

Abortion is a consequence of sex, just as pregnancy is. You want to affect kids catching STDs, then give better sex education than "you should be married", or "in love". And start it at a younger age, and teach about condoms. That's all you can do. Repressing sexual urges or preaching abstinence doesn't work. You only have to look at the states to see that.

Taking away abortion (and the morning after pill, if you follow that logic), just leaves a lot of scared desperate young women with very little options and that desperation can be dangerous.

saiint

christmas2012 wrote: »

Thats the issue,its no longer seen as a valid consequence to have a family as a result of sex,it is now viewed as a problem that interferes with a sex life which is completely wrong,and sends out the wrong message to young teens and adults - that its okay to have sex without thinking of what the consequences might be,we live in the age of the throw away mentality and its basically saying there ARE NO CONSEQUENCES DO WHAT YOU LIKE,this is the reason why we have so many young people getting stung by abortion,and not to mention the rise in stds,live is not consequence free ,eventually you get caught out..

so your telling me you didnt have sex before you got married?

you cant say that mate
condoms break
the pill doesnt always work

you cant say most teenagers dont think their are any consequences cause all of us know their is
at the same time
**** happens
condoms break
pills dont always work
cant help it
it happens

fair enough their are some people who just dont consider protection at all
but most people do
sure have ya never seen condoms around the streets? even people doing it outside are still thinking about protection haha

and i dont know where you got your statistics for STDS on the rise? ya their on the rise in africa probably but not here haha

christmas2012

dont laugh about it they are at their peek in kerry if you want to look it up do it by all means..

Repressing sexual urges or preaching abstinence doesn't work.

its not about repression its about making an informed choice and using contraception,if it doesnt work and you have gotten pregnant you should be able to deal with the consequences if you are happy enough to deal with sex..

life isnt consequence free and abortion does not teach the valuable lesson of eventually you will get caught out if you keep wanting to scracth away the resulting 'problem' from sex..if pregnancy doesnt get you an std might..

saiint

christmas2012 wrote: »

dont laugh about it they are at their peek in kerry if you want to look it up do it by all means..

who cares about kerry:pac:

christmas2012

christmas2012 wrote: »

you should be able to deal with the consequences if you are happy enough to deal with sex..

abortion is a consequence

Sin City

Its getting very heated in here

Just to cool things down a bit

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

dont laugh about it they are at their peek in kerry if you want to look it up do it by all means..

Repressing sexual urges or preaching abstinence doesn't work.

its not about repression its about making an informed choice and using contraception,if it doesnt work and you have gotten pregnant you should be able to deal with the consequences if you are happy enough to deal with sex..

life isnt consequence free and abortion does not teach the valuable lesson of eventually you will get caught out if you keep wanting to scracth away the resulting 'problem' from sex..if pregnancy doesnt get you an std might..

Pregnancy and parenthood should not be seen as a punishment of sex! If your contraception fails it shouldn't be "right, fine, your life's over til you go through that pregnancy and raise that baby!"

hattoncracker

Sin City wrote: »

Its getting very heated in here

Just to cool things down a bit

Not too heated, Im loling reading some of the replies here!

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

.......

life isnt consequence free and abortion does not teach the valuable lesson of eventually you will get caught out if you keep wanting to scracth away the resulting 'problem' from sex..if pregnancy doesnt get you an std might..

Google doesn't translate from the Cantonese very well, does it? Care to give it another go?

Sin City

Abortion as we all know is a very emotive topic and a lot of people (women especaily ) will say their bodies means their choice and that does have a certain truth to it, but those women may not be able to be impartial to the debate (I know Im gonna get hung drawn and quatered for this)

As most people have claimed , the majority only have abortions after thinking long and hard about it, and not use it as a form of birth control. They do not need religious groups or the church condemning them for their decisons or having to see those grousome images of unwanted dumpster babies thrown in their faces.


Religion should not play any part in legal matters, especaily in a secular state

If it was to become legal , at what point should their (if any) have a cut off point? The first trimester? , longer, ? up to 26 weeks?

Leaving the soul out of it (forget who mentioned it) when should it be possible to extinguish a life , or a potential person?

Should abortion be allowed accross the board , or should it only be in certain circumstances , eg the mothers life would be at risk , after rape or if any birth defects were dected ( All these points can be debated for pros and cons in themselves)

It will be interesting to see how and if this put before a referendum and how the people will vote

histories

christmas2012 wrote: »

It gives a girl an option an option to scratch out the consequences of having sex with some stranger,or indeed even her long term boyfriend,when the sh!t hits the fan they dont want to know they just want to immeidately get rid of the 'problem',instead of facing it head on and maybe becoming a better or more mature person as a result of it..



if they are not prepared for the consequences of sex yes they shouldnt be having it,abortion can ruin lives too,those marie stopes clinics and their adverts should come with health warnings,the aftermath of an abortion can be VERY TRAUMATIC,AS WELL AS THE PROCEDURE ITSELF..

The part that is in bold, that is an extremely blinkered approach to take to the world. Do you really believe that having a child is going to mature people? I live in what would be classed as a "dodgy" area and I can assure you from witnessing it on a daily basis that childbirth does not encourage these people to grow up and put their child first.

You do a massive disservice to women when you say it is as simple as scratching it out. If I were to get pregnant right now I would most likely have an abortion. I have been out of work for a long time, my savings are gone, I'm struggling to find work and I'm on the dole. The only thing I would have to offer a child is poverty*. On top of which I'm so far away from being ready to raise a child that I know I would be a terrible mother.

*Yes, we get benefits in this country but I will never condemn any child of mine to the same life I have lived. I want better for them.

Life is not black and white. You, nor I, have any idea the factors that will bring a woman to an abortion clinic. We can't know the life of other people. Be very slow to judge others for decisions that you may precieve as being wrong.

christmas2012

Pregnancy and parenthood should not be seen as a punishment of sex!

Im not saying that it should be a punishment,its a natural consequence youre reading into things that are not there and i havent explicity said either..scroll back to see what i said..consequence

Do you really believe that having a child is going to mature people?

You have no other option or alternative but to mature and grow up fast when you have a baby,you have someone else to think about other than yourself for once..It very much matures most of the population that decide to keep their children..

And i take insult to the way you say im taking a blinkered approach or doing a disservice to young women who choose to scratch that problem / consequence out of their lives..

It teaches them nothing about each consequence for each action,it takes that away completley and encourages a throw caution to the wind attitude that will soon catch up on them,by way of miscarraige later in life when they are trying for a baby or deep psychological problems due to the aftermath of abortion which can be a traumatic procedure in itself,and very painful procedure to go through..The women at the marie stopes clinic dont tell you that though they just say its all about a womans choice no big deal,but for a lot of women who survived abortion it is a big deal.These clinics should come with a health warning a lot of women going for those abortions dont know what they are letting themselves in for..

dharma200

"alot of women who have survived abortion"..

would you care to elaborate on the death tolls of Irish women who travel to the UK for terminations?

How many of the thousands of women put through the trauma of travelling abroad for a termination have not survived?

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

Pregnancy and parenthood should not be seen as a punishment of sex!

Im not saying that it should be a punishment,its a natural consequence youre reading into things that are not there and i havent explicity said either..scroll back to see what i said..consequence

Do you really believe that having a child is going to mature people?

You have no other option or alternative but to mature and grow up fast when you have a baby,you have someone else to think about other than yourself for once..It very much matures most of the population that decide to keep their children..

And i take insult to the way you say im taking a blinkered approach or doing a disservice to young women who choose to scratch that problem / consequence out of their lives..

It teaches them nothing about each consequence for each action,it takes that away completley and encourages a throw caution to the wind attitude that will soon catch up on them,by way of miscarraige later in life when they are trying for a baby or deep psychological problems due to the aftermath of abortion which can be a traumatic procedure in itself,and very painful procedure to go through..The women at the marie stopes clinic dont tell you that though they just say its all about a womans choice no big deal,but for a lot of women who survived abortion it is a big deal.These clinics should come with a health warning a lot of women going for those abortions dont know what they are letting themselves in for..

And for a lot of women, theyre fine. They know it's the right decision and they get on with life.

And as for the miscarriage thing, do you have any stats for increased rate of miscarriage after abortion or are you just scare-mongering?

How do you know all this stuff you claim to know about the aftermath of abortion? What makes you such an expert?

christmas2012

"alot of women who have survived abortion"..

would you care to elaborate on the death tolls of Irish women who travel to the UK for terminations?

How many of the thousands of women put through the trauma of travelling abroad for a termination have not survived?

What im saying is PSYCHOLOGICALLY SPEAKING THEY HAVE SURVIVED ABORTION..Its a trauma to go through and women arent fully informed about the procedure..

dharma200

christmas2012 wrote: »

What im saying is PSYCHOLOGICALLY SPEAKING THEY HAVE SURVIVED ABORTION..Its a trauma to go through and women arent fully informed about the procedure..

oh, right.... sure..... perhaps if you could be a little clearer in your wording to ensure I am totally informed... I feel psycological trauma is not equated with actual survival.

hattoncracker

christmas2012 wrote: »

"alot of women who have survived abortion"..

would you care to elaborate on the death tolls of Irish women who travel to the UK for terminations?

How many of the thousands of women put through the trauma of travelling abroad for a termination have not survived?

What im saying is PSYCHOLOGICALLY SPEAKING THEY HAVE SURVIVED ABORTION..Its a trauma to go through and women arent fully informed about the procedure..

So youre saying all the women in the world who have abortions aren't fully informed?

Riiight... So how many abortion clinics have you worked in?

I'll take a stab and guess.. none? They are fully informed, like any medical procedure, especially such a delicate one, they talk you through the procedure.

HowAreWe

I'll just leave this here. Nice to see which countries mirror our laws.

hattoncracker

HowAreWe wrote: »

I'll just leave this here. Nice to see which countries mirror our laws.

what do the colours mean? I can't see any key!

dharma200

orange = no access to legal termination... I am guessing seeing as ireland is orange

HowAreWe

hattoncracker wrote: »

what do the colours mean? I can't see any key!

Here.

PieForPi

HowAreWe wrote: »

I'll just leave this here. Nice to see which countries mirror our laws.

That really puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

Thanks for posting, great bit of information.