ICABS Watch [READ POST #1 BEFORE POSTING]

Grizzly 45

Animal Rights Milita...

[Nice original cog of the German Red Army Faction logo of a HK Mp5 and star:rolleyes:.]
The headbangers that ALF rejected for being too violent.As they breach ALF's so called nonviolence to sentinent beings rule.
Delightful bunch that dont even stop at desecrating graves of people they hate...:mad:
overview
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Rights_Militia
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2004/oct/17/theobserver.uknews
http://www.redorbit.com/news/international/501128/uk_animal_activists_jailed_in_grave_desecration_case/
http://brianoconnor.typepad.com/animal_crackers/2004/10/more_on_grave_d.html

Sparks

Mod Note: Folks, we're wandering and losing focus. Please reread post #1. Thanks.

Grizzly 45

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/village-school-targeted-over-pigs-29119700.html


9 MARCH 2013

A village primary school has been plagued with hate mail from animal rights activists after launching a pig rearing scheme, it has been reported.

The tiny school in Suffolk, which has just 25 pupils, has been subjected to 400 complaints along with threatening emails from all over the world.

Kath Cook, the headteacher of Peasenhall Primary School, in Peasenhall, near Ipswich, told The Daily Telegraph that she has spoken to police because of the level of harassment.

yubabill1

NI minister refusing to fund hunting

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/minister-rules-out-backing-hunting-29122869.html

Sparks

John Tierney (Hunt Sabs) in todays Independent:

...
Reports have indicated that a revival of the red squirrel population is under way as the grey squirrel is being curtailed by the resurgence of the pine marten, acting as a natural brake on the grey squirrel population, thus reducing the impact on the red squirrel.

For years Ireland's hunting lobby has lectured that grey squirrels were a threat to red squirrels and that the only solution was a wholesale slaughter of the greys.

Now we find that a natural predator, who has also suffered at the trigger fingers of Ireland's gunners, is doing the job of grey squirrel control in a natural way.
...

Sparks

Courtesy of indymedia, a look at what really uneven moderation looks like ("wageslave" is one of the indymedia moderators):

some of you might be interested in reading this exchange from the mailing list on this topic
by wageslave - (personal capacity) Tue Mar 12, 2013 05:21

Those of you who are not subscribed to our mailing lists may be interested in this exchange which occurred there recently, in reference to one of the above comments and moderation of same as a result of a complaint received.

[1] contact form email

On 7 Mar 2013, at 03:00, contact@indymedia.ie wrote:

Contact Form Submission
From: Mark Dennehy ( mailto:mark.dennehy@xxx.xxxx )

As the automated link is not working, I wish to report several
examples of "playing the player" ad hominem attacks on
this story:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103365

Several authors refer to coursing and other fieldsports as
"bloodsports". A blood sport is one where the objective is
to see blood - coursing sees the dogs muzzled, and the conditions
arranged to try to avoid bloodshed. It is as much a bloodsport as
hurling or rock climbing. The word is being chosen specifically to
attack those involved, and since the research (see citations below)
shows that the conservation efforts made by those involved are
helping to keep the Irish Hare species off the endangered species
list, this is exceptionally unfair and defamatory.

A moderator has, however, taken exception to the language used in
defence of coursing in a reprint of a letter from the Irish Examiner
and has had no difficulty in editing such posts and referring to the
word "extremist" as a slur, despite its OED definition.
The campaigners in question have stated openly in the past a goal of
making all hunting, all fishing, all pet-owning, and all meat-eating
illegal. This is not a mainstream agenda, it simply is an extreme
agenda; hence, extremism. That is the Oxford English Dictionary
definition of the word.

Surely this is one-sided, allowing defamation from one side but
having an overly strict moderation policy on the other side of the
argument? Is this Indymedia's official editorial policy, to only
allow one side to make its case and denigrating the other side, no
matter how reasoned their argument or independent the research they
cite? Surely fair is fair and the same rules should apply to both
sides?

citations:
http://www.qub.ac.uk/sites/Quercus/Filestore/Filetoupload,
184050,en.pdf
http://www.qub.ac.uk/sites/Quercus/Filestore/Filetoupload,
134064,en.pdf
http://www.npws.ie/publications/irishwildlifemanuals/IW...0.pdf
End of Msg. Sent at 03:00:38 on 07 Thu Mar

[2] email response

Mark

You referred to a named individual as "extremist" without any real
evidence to back up this rather serious allegation in your post. We
responded to a complaint about this and examined your post. In my
opinion as moderator, your serious allegations were not backed up with
proportionate evidence and did not stand up to scrutiny. You also
broke another "no petitions" guideline which normally should have
meant your post was hidden.

However, as you are aware, the "reasoned" part of your post remained
up despite (IMHO) breaking two of our guidelines.
I think that's more than fair considering the cruel nature of what you
are defending.

Animal rights campaigners are regularly hounded and villified for
their ethical and principled stance in most other media. We try to
give them a fair hearing here and don't tolerate the kind of attacks,
or language that are levelled at them in other media.

The cruel sports you defend have a PR advantage in most other media
and, apparently, the backing of current politicians. Must you have it
all your own way in independent media as well?

Sorry, but giving equal treatment to both David and Goliath is not
really my idea of "fairness". I won't apologise for levelling the
playfield a little here Mark.

A "bloodsport" is a sport which involves chasing and possibly killing
an animal for sport. It's not an unreasonable description IMHO. It's
a "sport" and it often involves "blood". I've personally seen hares
killed in footage of coursing meets, muzzles or no muzzles. The dead
hares clearly had blood on them.

And I believe the muzzles only came into service for PR purposes in
1993, when the true nature of what went on at coursing meets was
becoming more widely known, not because coursers themselves were
having an ethical crisis of conscience and were concerned for the
welfare of the hares they used for their "sport".

This debate is not about who does more conservation work, it's about
whether such cruel "sports" are ethically justified and should be
allowed or not.
Would we let off a murderer on the grounds that when not murdering, he
does a lot of charity work as a cover??
Would we dare make the argument that because his good deeds meant more
humans were alive, he should be allowed to torture and kill a few
without censure?
So why is that argument valid in the case of animals? Why not just
help conserve the hare because it's the right thing to do?

The word "extremist" is not just a simple descriptive term as you
say. It has been strongly associated by the media with the words
"terrorism" and violence. "Extremist" and "Terrorist" are frequently
used interchangeably on news reports. It is a completely loaded and
perjorative term.
It is this unreasonable association which you (and others)
deliberately wish to perpetuate, and which we do wish to assist you in
doing.

In the US, this process of deliberate and systematic word association
has largely succeeded and has allowed peaceful animal rights activists
and ecological protesters to be demonised, considered as terrorists
and treated under severe anti terrorist legislation, with little
objection from a sleepwalking US citizenry.

We are not willing to be used by apologists such as yourself as a
vehicle for perpetuating that same process of association here.

However if you just continue to make "reasoned" arguments, citing
"independent" research, and it's all as good as you say, then I don't
see why you should need to use loaded terms like "extremist" when
referring to individual named peaceful campaigners, or be upset when
such loaded terms are replaced with more neutral ones. If what you
assert in your email is true then you should easily win out by force
of argument and quality of information sources.

Personally, however I fail to see what a bunch of men screaming as
their vicious dog chases and injures / kills a terrified hare has to
do with rationality at all. It looks to me like it's the lizard
brain that's really at work here. Paint it in any colour you like,
but what happens afterwards seems to me like just so much
rationalisation and excuses for giving in to primitive savagery.

rgds
wageslave (personal capacity)

"Thou shouldst rather be moved with pity to see a silly innocent hare
murdered of a dog,
the weak of the stronger, the fearful of the fierce, the innocent of
the cruel and unmerciful.
Therefore, all this exercise of hunting is a thing unworthy to be used
of free men."
- Thomas Moore

Sparks

Further responses on the Indymedia article:

Hi wageslave,
You can't really call that an email response, because you never sent it to me. What it really is, is you responding in public to a private email.
And it speaks volumes about indymedia's lack of concern at providing a fair platform that you do this. And as to posting in public in a "private capacity" an email which was sent to indymedia and not yourself and which was only visible to you because of your non-"private" capacity, I wonder if that's a breach of the data protection act?

As to your defamatory comments regarding my choice of words, I reject them in their entirety. Extremist and terrorist are not the same word and do not mean the same thing and merely claiming that they do does not mean that they are the same. Extremist is, however, exactly the correct word to describe groups who undertake or advocate or condone acts like property destructing, arson, releasing thousands of nonnative predators into native ecosystems (which are subsequently destroyed), or most recently, sending death threats to a Suffolk school who dared to teach their children where food comes from by rearing pigs.

As you know, we run several public mailing lists so our process is open to scrutiny. When you contact the moderators using our contact form, you are making a post to a public mailing list which can be read by anyone interested who subscribes to the list. This is clearly indicated on the submission form.
more info on lists here: https://lists.indymedia.org/

I merely reproduced that already public domain exchange here, since it's contents were not merely a simple request but were philosophical and clearly part of the debate itself.

Normally, as a courtesy when responding on the list, we also CC the person we are responding, however, after years of having such courtesy abused, I no longer CC potentially hostile posters with a personal email address for them to abuse.

The use of language is an important part of the debate and as such it belonged on the thread itself and not just on a mailing list, which is why I reproduced it here

You'll notice that I have edited out email addresses but other than that, it remains faithful to the list exchange.

In your response, again, you fail to clarify that John F. has absolutely nothing to do with the events you mention, nor have 99.9% of peaceful animal welfare campaigners. Yet, again you insist on smearing him and others in this underhand manner.

Your post essentially implies that ALL animal rights "groups" are involved with such acts instead of just a small minority. You have no proof to back this up. Extraordinary inferences require an extraordinary level of proof. You have not produced this. Not even close.
It is rather like saying "all people who follow Islam are terrorists". No. It's a small radical minority.

In fact, more and more frequently, campaigns of dissent are infiltrated by paid provocateurs who advocate emotive / violent actions which are then splashed across newspapers to undermine the campaign as a whole. Such incidents are documented, even on this very site. Who is to say some / all of the incidents you cite are not also a result of such infiltration?

I recommend you and others research the "kennedy stone" affair as a single example of this:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97967

Regarding the school incident, personally I think it is laudable that children are educated as to where their food comes from, but surely it would be more realistic and educational if, as part of that education, they were filed through the local slaughterhouse to see reality in all it's gruesome industrial savagery, rather than some fake staged and sanitised affair using a few extra and unnecessary pig deaths. Guaranteed there would be even more animal rights campaigners in the next generation if they did it that way! It was wrong to threaten anyone, but a protest would certainly be justified, to highlight the complete hypocrisy and also the lack of concern for animal life.

This small minority you refer to damage the perception of animal rights campaigners by the public, as do posts like yours in national newspapers or popular websites using deliberate "have you stopped beating your wife" rhetoric and perjorative language. I have a problem with both.

Mark, you are free to express your philosophical opinions here and debate them. However you are not free to publish deliberate personal smears, untruths or deliberately perjorative language aimed at named peaceful campaigners on this site. It is "playing the player". If you want to do that in public, then might I suggest you start your own blog.

wageslave, to say that the contents of a mailing list which requires an approved subscription and a password in order to access it, is somehow in the public domain is very obviously wrong. I don't have access to the list, for example, so couldn't see it.

To say it was an email conversation and imply it was an email conversation with me while not sending me the email was obviously wrong.

To say I was stating that all animal rights groups were involved is also obviously wrong. It is your reading, not my writing that is at fault here.

To condone, even partly as you have done, the sending of death threats to a children's school over a philosophical difference of opinion is monstrously wrong. To advocate for it, to applaud it, to actually do it - as has obviously been done by animal rights extremists - is beyond wrong and is why the word "extremist" is the correct and accurate one to use.

Meanwhile, you continue to use terms like "bloodsport" in a perjorative manner. Coursing changed its rules and its operating manner, it did research into how to minimise mortality to the hares, and it continues to do so - thus they aim to <i>avoid</i> blood, not seek it out as you imply. And what they do has been proven in peer-reviewed research carried out by animal welfare university groups to be highly beneficial to the Irish Hare species, and to be beneficial to the 96.9% of the hares who are tagged and re-released. So the evidence shows that the word "bloodsport" is pure defamation and nothing more. It's the very definition of the word "slur" that you used erroneously earlier.

Your moderation here is wrong, wrong, wrong. And frankly given your record (your horrific celebration of the accidental drowning of a CEO of the Irish Coursing Club here, for example: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/98105 ), a review of this biased "moderation" you're carrying out is called for by the other indymedia moderators.

edit: it seems that some of these have been deleted from the indymedia page.

Sparks

...yet more discussion on indymedia editorial policy.

ahem!
by wageslave - (personal capacity) Wed Mar 13, 2013 16:34

wageslave, to say that the contents of a mailing list which requires an approved subscription and a password in order to access it, is somehow in the public domain is very obviously wrong. I don't have access to the list, for example, so couldn't see it.

It's completely free and public. You are free to join this list, as are any members of the public who care to do so. You do have access to the lists if you care to bother. Your ineptitude or apathy on the matter is not my fault

To say it was an email conversation and imply it was an email conversation with me while not sending me the email was obviously wrong.

it was an exchange on an email list. As far as I knew, you were a member of the list.
By using the contact form you were submitting an email to an open public mailing list. That is completely clear from the wording on the contact form. It's not my fault if you can't understand simple english either.

As a courtesy moderators sometimes CC people when responding to list posts but after years of taking crap from people like yourself, I no longer CC potential email abusers with my personal email address. That's just inviting problems.

To say I was stating that all animal rights groups were involved is also obviously wrong. It is your reading, not my writing that is at fault here.

Hmm. I think you really need to clarify whether you believe all animal rights activists are involved in bad behaviour or just a very small minority. What percentage would you say? .5%? 1%? 90%?. And if so, are the rest just ordinary conscientious people exercising their right to protest democratically against a cruel and primative activity perhaps? Please elaborate. Currently you leave one with the impression that all animal rights campaigners are "extremists" which is complete nonsense and highly perjorative, given the clear associations and current interchangeability with the word "terrorist"

To condone, even partly as you have done, the sending of death threats to a children's school over a philosophical difference of opinion is monstrously wrong.

Complete Bull****e! I did no such thing. I said a democratic protest was probably justified to highlight the utter hypocrisy involved. That statement is libellous

To advocate for it, to applaud it, to actually do it - as has obviously been done by a tiny minority ofanimal rights extremists - is beyond wrong and is why the word "extremist" is the correct and accurate one to use.

Firstly, where is your evidence that this occurred. I'm not taking your word for anything.
Secondly, if it's indeed true then were they "extremists" or agent provocateurs? That has not been determined yet

Meanwhile, you continue to use terms like "bloodsport" in a perjorative manner.

Nope. It describes the pursuit precisely. It's a sport and there is regularly blood involved. I've seen the blood with my own eyes!

Coursing changed its rules and its operating manner, it did research into how to minimise mortality to the hares, and it continues to do so - thus they aim to avoid blood, not seek it out as you imply.

I'm calling bull**** on this. They did research into their own failing PR and acted to avoid being closed down in 1994 more like. How much ****ing college research did it take for you "caring coursers" to finally decide to put muzzles on the dogs in 1994??
Clearly you lot couldn't give a **** about the welfare of hares. If you did you wouldn't be torturing them on a regular basis, and without any muzzles until the 1990's. And you'd still be working on their conservation for it's own sake and not just so you continue to have fodder for your ugly bloodsport.

And what they do has been proven in peer-reviewed research carried out by animal welfare university groups to be highly beneficial to the Irish Hare species, and to be beneficial to the 96.9% of the hares who are tagged and re-released. So the evidence shows that the word "bloodsport" is pure defamation and nothing more. It's the very definition of the word "slur" that you used erroneously earlier.

As I stated before, If a murderer does some social work in between killings, does that exonerate him and make him no longer a murderer?. And if his social work saves a few lives, does that give him the right to kill a few people horribly without censure? What horrible twisted moral logic is that?? Don't try to fudge the issue. This is about whether the act of coursing itself is ethically justifiable or not.

Your moderation here is wrong, wrong, wrong. And frankly given your record (your horrific celebration of the accidental drowning of a CEO of the Irish Coursing Club here, for example: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/98105 ), a review of this biased "moderation" you're carrying out is called for by the other indymedia moderators.

sorry, thats not my comment. Smearing me with other people's actions which I neither committed nor advocated again are we? I see a bit of a pattern emerging here Mark! I guess you must do it to everyone you don't agree with. The more you open your mouth and the more ugly weasel words and libellous assertions pour out, the more I feel that I was probably far too soft in my moderation of your post.

If you are talking Data protection act over material you posted to a clearly described open public mailing list, then I should certainly discuss the VERY serious personal allegations that I advocated child murder made by a certain Mr Mark Dennehy on a public forum with my solicitor. He's a really sharp guy, very conscientious, and just loves taking bullies like you to task.

Indymedia editorial policy, continued
by Mark Dennehy Wed Mar 13, 2013 17:52

It's completely free and public. You are free to join this list

It is therefore, by your own admission just there, not in the public domain.

it was an exchange on an email list. As far as I knew, you were a member of the list.

That was not something you made clear in any way. You stated it was an email exchange; the only names there were yours and mine. It was a direct implication that it was an email exchange between you and me when in fact, it was nothing of the sort.

By using the contact form you were submitting an email to an open public mailing list. That is completely clear from the wording on the contact form.

What is completely clear from the wording on the contact form is that the email goes to a closed email list; not to the public domain. Nowhere in the site's terms and conditions is there provision for the publication of that email to the public domain as you so did; nowhere is there an option allowing the user to give such permission; I was not contacted asking for such permission; and for the record I did not give it in any form.

Hmm. I think you really need

Incorrect. I do not need to define already-defined terms according to your whim. The OED defines the meaning of the terms. You may disagree with this; you will simply be wrong if you choose to do so. The average commuter on the Clapham omnibus is not required to be an expert; but they are still required to speak standard English and not redefine words as to their whim.

Complete Bull****e! I did no such thing. I said a democratic protest was

You did not use the word "democratic". You said that "a protest would certainly be justified". You gave no definition of what kind of protest at all. As the topic was whether or not it was wrong to send death threats to a children's school -- and not the merits of that school's program -- it was at best an ambiguous statement, and had to be read generously even then. Any reasonable member of society would have condemned these death threats clearly and unequivocatedly ; you failed to do so. It was not merely wrong to have failed to condemn such an act without caveat; it was monstrously wrong.

Firstly, where is your evidence that this occurred. I'm not taking your word for anything.

This is a laughable statement. Surely you watch the news?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-21629888

Or if you also fail to trust the BBC's journalistic integrity, perhaps these further links will convince you that these events transpired?
http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/11/03/2013/138093/activis...t.htm
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/03/09/headteacher-...ef=uk
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/peasenhall_police_monitoring...72694
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breakingnews/offbeat/....html

Secondly, if it's indeed true then were they "extremists" or agent provocateurs? That has not been determined yet

They sent death threats to a school and now you seek excuses for those actions? A "grassy knoll" argument, if you will? You imply some third party agency orchestrated this in order to discredit a group of people whose numbers include people who openly claim credit for arson, vandalism, sabotage and ecological destruction on a massive scale? ( http://www.directaction.info/index.htm )
Again, this is monstrously wrong.

Nope. It describes the pursuit precisely. It's a sport and there is regularly blood involved. I've seen the blood with my own eyes!

You have seen something that is not intended and which the sport takes steps to avoid.
Likewise, we've seen people injured playing chess; it doesn't make it a bloodsport. Hurley is not regarded as a bloodsport; yet there is almost always blood. An egg-and-spoon race could draw blood should someone fall and scrape their knee - would this make it a bloodsport in your dictionary?

Because it doesn't in the real dictionary. The term bloodsport is already defined - it means a sport where the animal is deliberately harmed, where that is the objective. In coursing, it is not; this is why the dogs are muzzled, it is why the hare gets a head-start, it's why the animals are rested for months before the event and fed well and treated by vets. The point of coursing is the chase, not the hare being caught. The majority of hares escape without any contact with the dogs at all; and the vast majority - over 98% - survive. And the species is kept off the endangered list, a feat which none of those groups protesting coursing have the finances or manpower or influence to carry out themselves; indeed those same groups calling for hare coursing to be banned are simultaneously calling for the cessation of culling the hare's main predator, the fox -- with apparently no conception of what happens when you take a prey species that has a poor conservation outlook and a 50% to 80% mortality rate in the wild, and then stop culling its main predator species, which has seen a population explosion in recent years.

Calling for those two policies is, frankly, very nearly a deliberate attempt to wipe out a native species that we've had here since the last ice age.

I'm calling bull**** on this.

If you're going to do so, provide proof.
You're quick enough to demand it and it's been provided when you did; now cease with the defamation and baseless accusations and actually provide some proof or admit that you have none and withdraw the comment and moderate this article fairly, removing defamation from both sides. That's all that has been asked - even-handed adherence to the law and to fair play. You may phrase it differently, but all your efforts so far have been to permit one side of the argument to flout the law (and indeed, to ignore it yourself in some cases) and maintain an unfair editorial policy on behalf of Independent Media Center Ireland.

As I stated before, If a murderer
The answer is that a murderer violates the legal rights of the murdered. while animals have no legal rights in this country or any others.

They do, however, have legal protections, and coursing violates none of these protections. If it did, it would be shut down by the courts. This has not happened. ICABS has more than sufficient funding (with about €80,000 in their declared accounts) to take a court case challange if they believe they could win such a case; they have not. One can only infer therefore, that such a case would have no merit and would fail.

Your comparison therefore is a baseless slur, on a par with the "when did you stop beating your wife" fallacy and violates the indymedia editorial guidelines. You were willing to remove any comment of mine which you felt met such a description; will you now display an objective and fair editorial policy or will you take sides even when the point is put to you publicly?

If you are talking Data protection act over material you posted to a clearly described open public mailing list, then I should certainly discuss the VERY serious personal allegations that I advocated child murder made by a certain Mr Mark Dennehy on a public forum with my solicitor. He's a really sharp guy, very conscientious, and just loves taking bullies like you to task.

Please do so. I suspect he may find it quite entertaining, and if you listen while he explains the law to you and why such a case would be thrown out of court, you may even find it educational, if expensive.

edit: All above posts on moderation on indymedia have now been deleted from the article by wageslave under the heading of "trolling" and the article locked.

Sparks

John Tierney (Hunt Sabs) in the Southern Star, calling for the army to take over from the police outside of Dublin, because that would let the army handle poaching:

... it is time for a radical approach to rural policing which will only involve realigning of existing personnel and resources rather than the need for government expenditure. Namely, switching the Irish Army to a rural policing role, thereby giving this organisation a real role to play in Irish society.
As a country our need for an army is of dubious merit. But since we have one, we might put it to good use rather than its present role as an overseas police force. The rural policing role would see Army units patrolling the roads on a 24-hour basis with powers to stop, search and if required exercise reasonable force.
......
Criminals know that rural Ireland is devoid of immediate policing cover and that the chances of meeting a garda are slim.
This is especially so late at night, when unarmed gardaí prefer not to be within the vicinity of potentially armed individuals.
This is shown up by the complete failure of the gardaí and the Wildlife Service to get a handle on illegal hunting at night. This issue has caused so much damage, injury and death to animals, humans, and property.
...

Sparks

John Fitzerald (CACS) in the Irish examiner:

Papal welcome
...
I’m delighted the new pope has taken the name of the saint widely associated with kindness to animals.
...animal cruelty is still sadly widespread and in many instances permitted by law and even encouraged by governments. I would like to think that Pope Francis will follow in his footsteps in speaking out against the horrific practices that shame humanity and bring unfathomable suffering to the so-called “lesser beings”.

Saint Francis had compassion for the tortured bull, the coursed hare, and the hunted fox. So, I am confident, will Pope Francis.
...

yubabill1

Lots of antis commenting on what appears to be a case of animal cruelty. They lost no time whatsoever associating hunting with this.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/probe-into-horrific-fox-killing-29144627.html

as a law-abiding hunter, I don't like having my good name assaulted by being associated with "psychopaths", "sick behaviour" and John Fitzgerald's direct link between hunters and this story.

Another guy says people are illegally hunting stags (no specifics).

Are hunters entitled to their good name, unless they break the law?

Grizzly 45

Not Irish related,but the tactics are somwhat simmilar to a few incidents here.

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-2298351/Hound-beaten-death-left-drive-hunt-master-attack-animal-rights-activists.html

yubabill1

One for the future- been reading articles by this lady. Already an ARAN supporter
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/lay-of-the-land-in-praise-of-our-brother-and-sister-creatures-29150332.html

Sparks

Bernie Wright (ICABS) in thejournal.ie comments section:

We pose the question-just how many depraved humans are walking the streets free from prosecution having mutilated, tortured and killed defenceless animals.
The RED FOX seems to be the latest main target as we hear sick thugs tortured and hanged yet another young fox from a tree directly opposite a busy bus stop in Cork.
...
Fox hunters ... will blood hounds on young fox cubs and dig out foxes for fun as killing wildlife is all they can understand
...
It is our moral duty to protect the weak from sociopaths and depraved individuals. Do you think animals care if those hurting them are doing so with a licence from the Department of Agriculture or not.
....continues

homerhop

I see roger yeats got some air time on south east radio last monday

http://animalrightsireland.blogspot.ie/2013/03/vegan-ireland-on-south-east-radio-mar.html


<snip>

Sparks

Several comments from John Fitzgerald on this breakingnews.ie story regarding the Irish Wildlife Trust and the Animal Welfare Bill:

Hare coursing is a sport only in the sense that cockfighting was once deemed a sport with its own "regulations". It is banned in most of the jurisdictions that once allowed it, including Britain and Northern Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, and most of Europe. Despite muzzling, hares get mauled, tossed about, pinned down by the dogs etc. Reports filed by Parks and Wildlife Service rangers bear this out, as does video footage of the events. Claims that coursing is good for the overall hare population, that hares are nicely fed PRIOR to baiting etc, ignore the animal welfare objection to the activity.

Animal cruelty remains just that despite attempts to clothe it with the "conservation" cloak of respectability. Recently the The Gathering confirmed that it does not condone bloodsports. Failte Ireland is equally opposed to the
http://www.dailymotion.com/vid... cruel practises, and with good reason. This is hare coursing:

It is not "defamatory" to compare one bloodsport with another, even if one happens to be illegal and the other prohibited.
...
Again, all that nonsense about the "benefits" of hare coursing. The truth blows away all such hollow and feeble arguments: The death cry of the hare brings joy to some "sportspeople" and sorrow to others.

I have a knowledge of defamation law which is why I know what you say is nonsense. It is perfectly in order to compare one form of animal cruelty with another, regardless of the legal status of either form or practise

To wrongly accuse a person or named organisation of something is another matter. I have not done that. The hare species can well do without animal baiters who believe that terrorising and tormenting them for kicks is "sport". Hares get along quite nicely in counties that have no coursing clubs.

Dog fighting and hare coursing belong in the same Hall of Shame that one day will play host to additional bloodsports. So far, there's...let's see...bear baiting, stag hunting, badger baiting, dog fighting, otter hunting, cock fighting. The addition of hare coursing to that terrible place of shame...the dustbin of history... will represent progress and bring Ireland into line with the many nations that have already banned it.

No amount of alleged "conservation work" can justify the proven and well documented cruelty of hare coursing. It's an animal welfare issue, not a conservation one.

Sparks

From ICABS on twitter:

Amendment to ban hare coursing defeated - 13 in favour, 102 against. #Shame on TDs who voted against ban on cruelty to hares #AHWB

From the ICABS website:

It's "not appropriate" to outlaw cruelty: Simon Coveney
09 November 2012

Agriculture Minister Simon Coveney has said it's "not appropriate" to outlaw some of Ireland's worst acts of cruelty to animals. The Fine Gael Minister made the comment during a Dail speech on the Animal Health and Welfare Bill. Please join us in urging Coveney to reconsider his shameful stance.

Speaking in the Seanad on September 20th, Minister Coveney stated: "It is not appropriate to simply outlaw hare coursing and hunting when they are pursued according to the codes of conduct drawn up by clubs. Considerable numbers of people are passionate about these pursuits and my job is to ensure that standards are met rather than simply outlawing practices."

The Minister has been reminded that the codes of conduct referred to do nothing to eliminate the cruelty.

From ICABS on twitter:

Mattie McGrath TD defends cruel hare coursing and hunting during Animal Welfare Bill #ahwb #SHAME @mattiemcgrathtd

From John Fitzgerald on twitter:

Animal cruelty as "sport" debate. Anyone can leave a comment...

http://www.thejournal.ie/animal-welfare-bill-845094-Mar2013/ &#8230;

Sent on to:
@JulieStaffysi
@AndreasRescue
@VeganMovement12
@AngieVegana12
@plsbekind
@_Animal_Lovers_
@TreeHugger
@CjMalton
@GlosABS
@charliemoores
@LeagueACS
@LeagueJoe
@veggiegirl2011
@VeganUp

And also by John Fitzgerald on twitter:

Journal.ie article on bloodsports debate...Comments can be left by anyone:

http://www.thejournal.ie/animal-welfare-bill-845094-Mar2013/ &#8230;

Sent on to:
@AnimalAbusers
@Animal_Place
@HuntSabs
@HoundsOff
@action4animals

Hunterbiker

Found via the ICABS Twitter feed

http://www.change.org/petitions/adare-heritage-centre-stop-promoting-hunting

Sparks

From the ICABS twitter feed:

ICABS representatives and other animal campaigners featured on RTE's Drivetime show. Listen at http://youtu.be/ieJ66oTQX-E;

Sparks

From John Fitzgerald's twitter feed:

Clare Daly TD versus Brian Munn (bloodsports debate) Worth listening to!
http://www.newstalk.ie/search.php?search_term=Clare+Daly&submit.x=0&submit.y=0&#160;

Sparks

ICABS post RTE footage covering protest on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKVqzzCp9Zg

fathersymes

Madam – As a regular reader of the Sunday Independent I would like to commend Fiona O'Connell for her continual support of animals. She is sadly one of very few in the media who champions the cause of the creatures with whom we share this planet...

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/fiona-is-in-good-company-29165193.html

The same Journalist Fiona O'Connell is praised on banbloodsports facebook and responds "thank you so much".

fathersymes

From John Tierney

Rural crime, both operating under legal and illegal cover, is endemic in Ireland. Criminals know that rural Ireland is devoid of immediate policing cover and that the chances of meeting a garda are slim.

This is especially so late at night, when unarmed gardaí prefer not to be within the vicinity of potentially armed individuals.


http://www.southernstar.ie/Comment/Letters/Radical-idea-for-rural-policing-11032013.htm

Sparks

From the Irish Examiner:

Legislation fails to protect fox and hare
How sickening to see the Oireachtas pass a piece of legislation that the Government pledged would update and modernise protection of animals in Ireland but that specifically exempts two of the most horrific blood sports from prohibition.
Under the Bill, hare coursing and fox hunting will be allowed to continue, despite clear and overwhelming evidence of the extreme and unnecessary cruelty involved in both practices.
...
I accept that any debate on animal welfare legislation would be eclipsed by the tumultuous political and economic crises convulsing Ireland and the rest of Europe. But that is no reason to ignore or downplay the scandal of organised animal cruelty posing as “sport”.

A law that the government boasted would radically overhaul our animal welfare standards will exclude two perverse forms of recreation that belong in the Dark Ages and were, even then, opposed by courageous men and women of conscience.
...
continues

Rosahane

Roger Yeats promoting veganism on Politics.ie.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/events/208886-veganism-new-black-growth-vegan-movement-ireland-3.html

Sparks

John Fitzgerald on the journal:

It is not only animal welfare groups that claim hares are subjected to unnecessary terror, suffering, and injury in coursing. Each coursing season, wildlife rangers from the National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) attend a number of hare coursing events in a monitoring capacity. They record exactly what they see, accurately and objectively. The reports they file are in no way influenced by animal protection campaign groups. The evidence arising from their reports are therefore all the more significant and cannot simply be brushed aside or ignored on the basis that they are motivated by any innate hostility to hare coursing.
Following are extracts from the NPWS ranger reports for the 2011/12 hare coursing season: (the complete reports are available under FOI from the NPWS and have already been supplied to the Irish Council Against Blood Sports):
...continues

aaakev

Roger yeats was just on spin1038, they are discussing vegans. He said one of the main things about being vegan is living a non violent life!

Grizzly 45

Sir, – The legacy of Margaret Thatcher will be hotly contested; and I was never a fan of hers. But I have always admired her courage and human decency in crossing the floor of the House of Commons to vote, on two occasions (in 1969 and 1975) for Labour Bills proposing a ban on live hare coursing.

http://www.irishtimes.com/debate/letters/margaret-thatcher-s-legacy-1.1353083

Grizzly 45

28 APRIL 2013 Irish independant letters.

Madam – I see that a Dutch company is seeking volunteers "from all the nations" for a planned trip to Mars. It envisages the planet being colonised and populated in the not too distant future.

Sparks

From the ICABS website:

Wax Museum withdraws foxhunt discount "with immediate effect"
The National Wax Museum has announced that a foxhunting-related discount offer has been "withdrawn with immediate effect". Following complaints from ICABS and members of the public, the museum apologised and said that it is not a supporter of bloodsports.

The offer appears in a wax museum advert in the Westmeath Foxhounds 2013 calendar. The ad states: "Mention the Westmeath Foxhounds and get 10 per cent off the ticket price". As part of our appeal to the museum, we highlighted the horrendous suffering and death caused to foxes during hunts and the fact that a majority of people are opposed to the cruel activity.

...continues

yubabill1

Another load of bull from J Fitzgerald Indo 9/5/13

As a campaigner against blood sports, I am delighted to hear that Sonora has become the first Mexican state to ban bull fighting. This is a cowardly practice that involves the torture of an animal for the benefit of people who enjoy watching its slow and agonised death.

Our own Government should take note of this development and also of the fact that the ban was imposed amid frenzied claims that it was "a grand tradition", that local economies depend on it and that the bulls were well looked after prior to the fights.

If these claims sound familiar it is because the same hollow excuses have been offered in defence of hare coursing in Ireland. Apologists say it should be left alone as it is a part of our culture, that people in certain counties would have nothing much else to do without it, that it brings money into some rural areas.

It's about time the politicians here found the same courage the Sonoran legislators have shown. The arguments in favour of hare coursing are pure bull, while every humane instinct cries out for its abolition.

John Fitzgerald

Callan, Co Kilkenny

Irish Independent

Grizzly 45

From the ICABS website latest news page

FBD Insurance is being urged to stop providing coverage to those involved in some of Ireland's worst acts of cruelty to animals. An IFA Countryside/FBD Insurance package is providing cover to foxhunters, hare coursers and terriermen who are responsible for horrendous suffering and death to wildlife.

wexfordman2

THis is from a thread on politics.ie which I was participating in, and came accross this project which roger and bernie seem to be invovled in!

wexfordman wrote: »

Roger,

Are you involved in any way in this program, which sends vegans to schools to educate them on animal rights?
A debate on politics.ie I was participating in, and came accross this, which Roger and Bernie are invovled in:-

SCHOOL TALKS WORKSHOP - ANIMAL EDUCATION OUTREACH

Actually, Ive just done a a bit of looking, and it turns out you are quite invovled in "educating" our kids. This is your presentation, whcih you presented to a secondary school in Dublin

Animal rights with a case study of animal

And the audio

http://animalrightsireland.blogspot.ie/2013/01/dublin-animal-rights-school-talk-jan.htmll

wexfordman2

They also have a primary school module http://animaleducationoutreach.weebly.com/primary-level-talks.html

and a preschool module. Bernie Wright is looking for more volunteers to give these talks (see here http://animaleducationoutreach.weebly.com/school-talks-workshop.html), and they have also been held in a number of other schools,see here https://www.facebook.com/pages/ARAN-Animal-Rights-Action-Network/155913217835225


Im actually going to make a recording of this, summarise it and submit a complaint.

Sparks

Folks, please re-read the rules in the first post on this thread. Start a new thread if you wish to discuss any particular post from this thread.

wexfordman2

Petition to end game bird rearing!

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/minister-for-arts-heritage-and-the-gaeltacht-end-the-farming-and-breeding-of-birds-for-sport-shooting-in-ireland?utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=six_hundred_signatures

wexfordman2

Animal Education Outreach presenting to catholic girl guides of ireland

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.453253914756384.1073741826.281359365279174&type=1

fathersymes

A report by a conservation ranger for the National Parks and Wildlife Service released to the Irish Council Against Blood Sports and seen by TheJournal.ie, reveal that six hares released back into the wild in conditions “ranging from poor to almost dead”.

http://www.thejournal.ie/gardai-hare-coursing-complaint-927338-Jun2013/

fathersymes

Animal Rights Action Network’s John Carmody believes cases such as this are common due to the disregard shown to anti-cruelty legislation.
He said: “We’re disgusted this is going on. It goes to show people don’t care for our animal welfare laws.
“It’s worrying because from what we have been told, this practice is rampant throughout the country.
“We get countless emails and complaints about this kind of cruelty but until our laws are taken seriously, people aren’t going to stop.


http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/birdbrained-trainer-tied-up-pigeons-1945784

skippey

In this weeks cork independent on letters to the editor on page 24 from mr tierney "compassion lost when used to shooting animals"

http://corkindependent.com/20130828/news/compassion-lost-when-used-to-shooting-animals-S71497.html

Grizzly 45

John Fitzgerald letters indo 9/10/13


9 OCTOBER 2013

* The killing of a cat by a jeering youth with a sub-machine gun in the opening episode of the new 'Love/Hate' TV series has understandably shocked animal lovers nationwide.

believe this heartfelt outpouring of revulsion is somewhat misplaced. I found the scene objectionable too, but I would place it in the context of a drama that focuses on gangland thugs who, in real life, would be far too busy peddling drugs and killing each other to be bothered shooting cats.

CJhaughey

ARAN is trying to link the showing of a scene in Love-Hate (TV drama) with the killing of Ducks in Edenderry.
The Local gunclub has offered to replace them with the assistance of the NARGC.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/love-hate-copycat-motive-linked-to-duck-killings-in-co-offaly-1.1557994

wexfordman2

The whole shooting match were together on rte last night on prime time

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10215254/

fur farming, with roger yates, clare daly, and the red headed vegan woman.

"this planet would be better without people who dont feel" (when talking about people who have no empathy towards animals!! 52 minutes in

Grizzly 45

wexfordman2 wrote: »

fur farming, with roger yates, clare daly, and the red headed vegan woman.

Bernie Wright[Now with added "tramp stamps" on forearms for easier identification.]:rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-why-ill-always-regret-buying-a-shotgun-29890778.html

This is an odd one.:p

djflawless

Just said I'd share
Seen this on Facebook today on a lads page but different news company had it up

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/01/06/morrissey-compares-eating-meat-to-pedophilia-calls-it-rape-violence-murder/

Birdnuts

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-why-ill-always-regret-buying-a-shotgun-29890778.html

This is an odd one.:p

Tragic;)

wexfordman2

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/threat-to-hare-is-horror-story-that-shames-us-30067581.html

John fitz getting restless again!

Grizzly 45

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10716354/The-boy-who-grew-up-to-become-a-woman-of-terror.html

yubabill1

http://www.thejournal.ie/coursing-greyhounds-hares-injuries-killed-1594220-Jul2014/