Should people be prohibited from owning exotic and potentially dangerous 'pets'?

metaoblivia

I think people should only be allowed to keep exotic pets once they show they are able to care for it, keep it from harm and keep others from being harmed by it, and can provide a suitable environment for it to live in. For some exotic pets that wouldn't be too difficult of a standard to meet. For others, it would be harder.

I watched a documentary a few weeks ago called The Elephant In the Living Room, and it was about how many people who keep exotic pets don't know what they're doing or how to really care for an animal like that. They just want a cool pet. And at least in some parts of the U.S. it's incredibly easy to buy a lion cub or an alligator or a cobra. The film focused on man in particular who lived in a state where, at the time, there were no regulations on exotic pets, and he was keeping two fully grown lions in an abandoned trailer. And there was nothing anyone could do except try to convince him to give the lions up to a big cat sanctuary. They also went undercover to a few exotic pet shows where all you had to do was hand over money and get a poisonous African snake or an alligator in return. And I just don't believe it should be that easy. People need to show that they're equipped to deal with these kinds of animals before bringing them home.

asherbassad

christmas2012 wrote: »

personally i would air on the side of caution and say for health and saftey reasons a big fat NO to allowing civilians to casually owning exotic pets,for obvious reasons if the 'pet' got loose and decided to go on the rampage,lets just say a snake bit a human in ireland,where would the antidote be available in ireland?Its just far too dangerous for many,many different reasons as there are many different dangeous exotic 'pets'..

:pac:
You're pretty good at erring.

Hazys

I want a pet eskimo

Mr Whirly

ScumLord wrote: »

They're imprisoned, usually in small boxes or cages, just because you can meet they're dietary requirements doesn't mean your doing them a favour by keeping them in captivity.

I only know reptiles so I'll stick to that. These are primitive animals and very few (not all) live in a social hierarchy. Once a heat gradient, light cycle, correct humidity, proper diet and good sanitation is provided I have found most will thrive in captivity.

Snakes do not need a lot of space as they will spend large amounts of their lives in a snug hide only leaving to bask, eat, drink and breed. Lizards and tortoises should be provided with more space but again will spend large amounts of their days basking, eating and hiding.

This can all be provided in 4 - 6 foot vivariums in peoples homes.

What are you basing your opinion on? If it is purely the imprisonment aspect I'm afraid I think that is nonsense.

As far as inbreeding goes this is not a problem in reptiles yet.

ScumLord

steddyeddy wrote: »

I dont know much about dogs Im afraid thanks for clearing that up! I just noticed attacks where kids out of fright hit the dog on the nose or something and then the dog bit the kid!

To be fair to the dog I wouldn't blame it. The family dog we had when I was younger hated very young children because the child would hurt her often unintentionally. Our dog would even go as far as to leave the room when a young child was around.

Babies pull and drag out of things, us adult humans accept that but they can really hurt a dog and the only thing the dog can do is bark and snap to let everyone else know they don't like it. I've never seen a dog bite a child, it's usually an aggressive snap of the teeth.

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

To be fair to the dog I wouldn't blame it. The family dog we had when I was younger hated very young children because the child would hurt her often unintentionally. Our dog would even go as far as to leave the room when a young child was around.

Babies pull and drag out of things, us adult humans accept that but they can really hurt a dog and the only thing the dog can do is bark and snap to let everyone else know they don't like it. I've never seen a dog bite a child, it's usually an aggressive snap of the teeth.

Ah yea Im not blaming the dog. Im just saying if one the rare occasion it did bite someone It could be something more than pure aggression at play.

Mr Whirly

metaoblivia wrote: »

They also went undercover to a few exotic pet shows where all you had to do was hand over money and get a poisonous African snake or an alligator in return. And I just don't believe it should be that easy. People need to show that they're equipped to deal with these kinds of animals before bringing them home.

I agree with this and licensing will stop this. I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion because of the nature of the animals involved. Aside from venomous animals and crocodilians (which I think should be only sold in a highly regulated environment i.e zoos etc), the majority of other reptiles are in no way more dangerous than any dog and in my opinion are far less likely to end up being abused than any other animal being kept as a pet.

The initial cost for buying the correct set up for a reptile can be very high. This will usually put off anyone without a good interest. You could pick a cat up from anywhere today for free and on impulse. There was a box if kittens with a "take one" sign down at our local Spar last summer. Which one of these two scenarios is likely to lead to good pet ownership?

ScumLord

Mr Whirly wrote: »

I only know reptiles so I'll stick to that. These are primitive animals and very few (not all) live in a social hierarchy. Once a heat gradient, light cycle, correct humidity, proper diet and good sanitation is provided I have found most will thrive in captivity.

Like I said at the start I have two turtles, they're well cared for but they are active and even though I bought a large tank they could clearly make use of more space. I'll maintain that just because you can provide for their basic needs it doesn't mean they wouldn't be happier out in the wild able to roam as they see fit. People in prison have their basic needs met but they're certainly not happy about being in prison.

Mr Whirly

People aren't reptiles. It's a stupid argument.

steddyeddy

Mr Whirly wrote: »

People aren't reptiles. It's a stupid argument.

No its not. Your maintaining that not being in captivity is a condition liked only by humans.

Mr Whirly

steddyeddy wrote: »

No its not. Your maintaining that not being in captivity is a condition liked only by humans.

No I'm not. A human being imprisoned is not comparable to a snake being housed in a vivarium.

steddyeddy

Mr Whirly wrote: »

No I'm not.

Right well then hows he being stupid comparing two species (humans and reptiles) neither of which enjoy captivity?

Mr Whirly

steddyeddy wrote: »

Right well then hows he being stupid comparing two species (humans and reptiles) neither of which enjoy captivity?

How do you know what they enjoy?

ScumLord

Mr Whirly wrote: »

No I'm not. A human being imprisoned is not comparable to a snake being housed in a vivarium.

Exercise is important to any animal. A lack of movement cases all kinds of problems. You don't know that your reptiles wouldn't rather be out in the wild. Why don't you leave the box open and see whether they choose staying in he box over going for a look see? although that's still not a good example as they would die in Ireland climate, it would be best to try taking them to their natural environment and seeing if they still prefer staying in a box.

steddyeddy

Mr Whirly wrote: »

How do you know what they enjoy?

Common sense dictates removing an organisim from its habitat and placing it in an area 10 times smaller (or more) isnt going to be on an animals to do list!

Mr Whirly

ScumLord wrote: »

Exercise is important to any animal. A lack of movement cases all kinds of problems. You don't know that your reptiles wouldn't rather be out in the wild. Why don't you leave the box open and see whether they choose staying in he box over going for a look see? although that's still not a good example as they would die in Ireland climate, it would be best to try taking them to their natural environment and seeing if they still prefer staying in a box.

There is plenty of scope for movement in a correct set up and none of my animals have suffered problems from this. If you fancy you can keep coming up with hypothetical situations where something bad is definitely going to befall all reptiles kept in captivity.

I don't know if my reptiles would rather be in the wild or if they are happy in my care. They are displaying good signs of health and growth though. I know if I brought them to their natural habitat they wouldn't last pissing time having never encountered it before.

If you want to compare reptiles and humans why don't you leave the door open on a house and see what happens to a toddler or even a dog that fancies a "look see".

Mr Whirly

steddyeddy wrote: »

Common sense dictates removing an organisim from its habitat and placing it in an area 10 times smaller (or more) isnt going to be on an animals to do list!

How do you know what's on their to do list? People need to stop putting human mentalities on animals. It's nonsense.

steddyeddy

Mr Whirly wrote: »

How do you know what's on their to do list? People need to stop putting human mentalities on animals. It's nonsense.

Actually our emotions, mentalities and desires are inherited from other animals were evolved from. The christian view is that animals and humans are on seperate sides of a line seperating animals from humans. The sceince however says something different. Many animals possess spindle cells (indication of emotion and higher processes). Not a single chemical found in a chimps brain isnt found in our brains. Of course animals have desires. The christian propoganda has been responsible for spreading this unscientific anthropomorphism nonsense. The idea that emotions, instincts and desires are exclusive to one type of ape is very inscientific.

steddyeddy

America seems to be the worst for it but there have been Irish and English people who have kept exotic and dangerous pets in the past. I think people should be banned from keeping dangerous animals, endangered animals and animals with spindle cells (which means their nearly as intelligent as us, (other apes, elephants, whales ect).

The dangerous animal keepers are an interesting breed. I dont get them. Chimps in my opinion are some of the worst choice for pets. Their several times stronger than the strongest man and they are very aggressive. There have been incidents where chimps have pulled owners arms out of the sockets, one man had part of his spine ripped and another had his balls ripped off! The woman who had her face ripped off by a chimp was saying that the chimp used to "bully" next doors three pitbulls! If thats not a warning I dont know what is. My opinion is if you cant get a mauling now and again whats the point in having a bloodthirsty animal in the house!

steddyeddy

By the way Im not saying people shouldnt keep reptiles! Just endangered or dangerous ones I would have a problem with. Eg komodo dragons.

ScumLord

Mr Whirly wrote: »

There is plenty of scope for movement in a correct set up and none of my animals have suffered problems from this. If you fancy you can keep coming up with hypothetical situations where something bad is definitely going to befall all reptiles kept in captivity.

It's not bad for them as such, but it's not ideal, it is captivity and no animal is going to prefer captivity to the freedom to roam.

I don't know if my reptiles would rather be in the wild or if they are happy in my care. They are displaying good signs of health and growth though. I know if I brought them to their natural habitat they wouldn't last pissing time having never encountered it before.

Yes, they would be dead fairly quickly but it wouldn't stop them from wanting to escape.

If you want to compare reptiles and humans why don't you leave the door open on a house and see what happens to a toddler or even a dog that fancies a "look see".

Humans and all reptiles are animals, there's nothing wrong with comparing them despite what seem like huge differences. And saying what would a dog or human toddler do is just proving my point, they'd do exactly the same thing because the majority of animals have more in common with each other than they have differences..

ScumLord

steddyeddy wrote: »

The dangerous animal keepers are an interesting breed. I dont get them.

People only really intend on getting baby chimps and when their young they're cute and great pets, there's no way a person can really expect to keep a adult chimp as a pet. An adult male chimp will turn on you and you'll end up being his pet.

Mr Whirly

steddyeddy wrote: »

Actually our emotions, mentalities and desires are inherited from other animals were evolved from. The christian view is that animals and humans are on seperate sides of a line seperating animals from humans. The sceince however says something different. Many animals possess spindle cells (indication of emotion and higher processes). Not a single chemical found in a chimps brain isnt found in our brains. Of course animals have desires. The christian propoganda has been responsible for spreading this unscientific anthropomorphism nonsense. The idea that emotions, instincts and desires are exclusive to one type of ape is very inscientific.

I'm not saying reptiles don't have desires. To equate a snake or lizards desires to ours is not an argument I can accept.

steddyeddy

ScumLord wrote: »

People only really intend on getting baby chimps and when their young they're cute and great pets, there's no way a person can really expect to keep a adult chimp as a pet. An adult male chimp will turn on you and you'll end up being his pet.

Yea true their used to seeing the pg chimps on tv! What they didnt show is the pg chimps ripping people's genitals off!

steddyeddy

Mr Whirly wrote: »

I'm not saying reptiles don't have desires. To equate a snake or lizards desires to ours is not an argument I can accept.

I dont get the "our desires thing". What desires are exclusivley ours?

ScumLord

Mr Whirly wrote: »

I'm not saying reptiles don't have desires. To equate a snake or lizards desires to ours is not an argument I can accept.

So humans have no overlapping desires or needs with reptiles at all?

Mr Whirly

I'm not saying there are no overlapping "desires" or anything of the sort. I did not bring this concept of "desire" into the discussion. My issue with it is that Scumlord is attempting to equate a human desire (in this case freedom) and it's importance to human happiness and it being an important factor in the happiness of a reptile. It is purely speculative.

I do agree that huge amounts of exotics should not be kept for various reasons. I do take issue with Scumlords hard line stance that no exotics can do well in captivity.

ScumLord

Mr Whirly wrote: »

I'm not saying there are no overlapping "desires" or anything of the sort. I did not bring this concept of "desire" into the discussion. My issue with it is that Scumlord is attempting to equate a human desire (in this case freedom) and it's importance to human happiness and it being an important factor in the happiness of a reptile. It is purely speculative.

I do agree that huge amounts of exotics should not be kept for various reasons. I do take issue with Scumlords hard line stance that no exotics can do well in captivity.

Well that's my stance, I realise it's extreme and I'm not accusing anyone of being a bad person I've just turned against people keeping most animals as pets. I don't think people should keep exotic pets just because they like having them around, even though they treat them with the up most care the industry that desire creates just causes pain to the animal that don't make it into a good home, which is the majority of those animals. I'm even against people breeding pedigree dogs just to highlight how extreme I've gotten . I think we have a responsibly to the species as a whole and not just the individual animals.

I can see where your coming from in that people see other animals through almost Disney like eyes but that's not what I'm talking about here. All animals like to be free, I think that's a fact. Most animals don't have the same understanding of other species that we do, for the most part they would see humans as big scary animals that they want to flee from. Even though my turtles will come up to me and will even eat out of my hand, the odd time they inexplicably get the urge to just dart away from me. I think that's just an extinctive response that they can't help.

Mr Whirly

We'll have to agree to disagree so.

My original point was that if a licensing system was put in place, both for retailers and consumers you would be far less likely to find unsuitable exotics in peoples homes.

Turtles are one animal I would like to see eradicated from the trade purely from the point that they are cheap, sold by every dodgy pet shop in incorrect set ups. To house an adult yellow belly slider correctly you realistically need a 10 foot by 10 foot by 5 foot deep indoor heated pond with a basking area with UV lighting. This is not doable for most people.

Mr Benevolent

ScumLord wrote: »

I do have two water turtles (native to America) but I didn't go out and buy them, I took them in.

Just get friendly with the local wildlife.

You post suggests that you either:

a) Had sex with water turtles; or

b) Kidnapped water turtles.

Which is it?

EZ24GET

Mr Whirly wrote: »

We'll have to agree to disagree so.

My original point was that if a licensing system was put in place, both for retailers and consumers you would be far less likely to find unsuitable exotics in peoples homes.

Turtles are one animal I would like to see eradicated from the trade purely from the point that they are cheap, sold by every dodgy pet shop in incorrect set ups. To house an adult yellow belly slider correctly you realistically need a 10 foot by 10 foot by 5 foot deep indoor heated pond with a basking area with UV lighting. This is not doable for most people.

The wild turtles around here do not have the advantage of heated pools, they survive harshly cold winters, but still I think turtles are better off in their natural settings, as are most things. I can't believe a tiger is happier in a pen, no matter how you've decked it out- it is just a big cage. Zoos are not ideal although I can see a reason for them. Why any one beleves it is his right to own exotic animals that were born in the wild is a puzzle to me. Puts the animal in an unnatural setting that causes it to behave in an unnatural way that can lead to it's death and the deaths of humans.

Eden3

Definitely - these creatures should not be in this climate + we don't have a clue what they like, need etc. My son pushed me to get him one of those reptile-y turtle things "Obey-1-Knobey" he was named ......! As per, I ended up cleaning out the disgusting tank all the time, buying all sorts of weird things to help it have a good life ....and it didn't .... it ended up floating on top regardless of all my efforts! Nah, they should be in the wild in their own environment and defo not flushed down our toilets ... along with the poor goldfish(es)

ScumLord

Confab wrote: »

b) Kidnapped water turtles.

"rescued"

EZ24GET wrote: »

The wild turtles around here do not have the advantage of heated pools, they survive harshly cold winters,

In the wild they Brumate, sort of like hibernation.

EZ24GET

I just think you should let animals stay where they are if at all possible. Brumating through the winter may seem like a hardship to youbut it's quite acceptable for the turtle. My friend once arrived at a friends house who had got his kids a turtle, They had out a tweezers and were concerned he had a "growth" or something caught in his throat and were trying to get hold of it to remove it. My friend had to tajk fast before these well meaning folks pulled the turtles tongue out. Lots of people like that, Animals are not humans they don't care for the things people find comforting they aren't made that way, If you see a turtle in the road and feel compelled to help it, then put it on the other side of the road not in your backseat to take home to the kiddies. Sometimes you just need to resist your better nature.