Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Dades

GCU - it's not for you to say what is relevant to this discussion.

My suggestion is don't respond to posts you don't feel are relevant and let us worry about the rest.


Can we all tone it a down a bit now before someone says something they regret?

Banbh

I HATE YOU!

Obliq

I hate that I've had Cyndi Lauper singing "True Colours" going through my head for the last hour.

I also hate the way inequality makes me feel.

robindch

Folks, time for a mince pie and a group hug!



{}

The Black Oil

Pro life speaker on the Pat Kenny show, straight into FG being the abortion party...and the usual line about Ireland's good record on maternal health.

Elsewhere, some kinda pukeworthy 'myths' on this Canadian site. Saw an anti-abortion truck with posters when I was in Toronto. It was rather unpleasant.

28064212

robindch wrote: »

Folks, time for a mince pie and a group hug!

Never did get your last caption, don't think you (or anyone else) posted the answer? Something about square roots?

Banbh

Thank you. Well said.





They look delicious - you're a lucky man!

Obliq

robindch wrote: »

Folks, time for a mince pie and a group hug!



{}

....goes off to kitchen like a good girl to dig out jars of mince meat and flour :pac: Thanks for the thought though.

The Black Oil

'the Irish people are opposed to this'

...

UDP

The Black Oil wrote: »

Pro life speaker on the Pat Kenny show, straight into FG being the abortion party...and the usual line about Ireland's good record on maternal health.

I find it hilarious that they are calling FG the abortion party. From what I can see they along with FF are the most religious parties.

Does anyone have a breakdown on which parties are officially in favour of having the option of abortion either as far as the X case or further?

If the religious loons don't have the option of voting FG who are they going to vote for?

The Black Oil

The pro life camp are going to put enormous pressure on FG. Their 'infrastructure' is much better organised and established in terms of getting the message out. They will still complain about media bias despite having John Waters, David Quinn, Patricia Casey, Ronan Mullen (not to mention various 'institutes') and others, all of whom have very strong media profiles, and are not short on ink, or air time. OK, so the other side probably have, what, a chunk of the Left, but their grassroots impact doesn't seem to be the same.

Banbh

They will apply pressure to the weakest point - and that's the rural FG TD.
And with Christmas upon us the rural deputies will all be going down home where they will be accessible to the local Falangists.
Any government TD that wavers should be challenged, including those calling for a free vote, which is the tactic being pushed by the bishops.

Nodin

Obliq wrote: »

....goes off to kitchen like a good girl to dig out jars of mince meat and flour :pac: Thanks for the thought though.

...while yer in there......any chance of tay?

swampgas

Banbh wrote: »

They will apply pressure to the weakest point - and that's the rural FG TD.

I have emailed both FG TDs in my rural constituency expressing my support for abortion legislation. I haven't had any response from either as yet.

Banbh

That's a good idea; I'll do the same.
I presume Labour TDs will toe the party line.

fisgon

fitz0 wrote: »

EWTN have released an advertisement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O17hbfowvhw

Comments are disabled, but click on the "More info" button at the top. 5 likes, 82 dislikes.

Hotblack Desiato

FWIW as an Irish male, husband, father, I do feel all the discussion about the suicide ground being 'abused' etc. is highly offensive to women (and to those who have lost loved ones, male or female, through suicide) and I am angry that people think this is a legitimate stance to take.

It's the Irish version of 'legitimate rape' and just as brainless. 'Legitimate suicidal ideation' :mad:

and yes it makes me angry that people spout this crap, and get endless media exposure.

It makes me angry that so many of the newly elected younger FG TDs were Catholic Taliban in disguise. None of them mentioned the word 'fornication' during the election campaign, oddly enough.

(PS - wtf were NUI gradutes thinking when they elected Ronan Mullen?)

It makes me angry when John Waters, Breda O'Brien, Patricia Casey, William Binchy, etc. etc. all spout the same crap from the same hymn sheet. 'Culture of death'. Not an original thought in any of their heads from what I can see. They're an insult to the intelligence of the Irish electorate - and we've told them where to get off on their attempts to reverse the X decision, TWICE now and they still spout the 'vast majority of the people oppose abortion under all circumstances' crap.

Sigh...


You mentioned a sammitch Banna - wanna make me one?







'sudo' = 'Super User DO', gives you god(ahem)-like powers on your linux/unix computer.

Galvasean

It's interesting how bishops etc. are calling for a free vote, alledgedly in the name of Democracy, now that abortion legislation is set to be done. They didn't seem too interested in said Democracy when Clare Daly's bill was voted down at the hand of the party whip.

fisgon

swampgas wrote: »

I have emailed both FG TDs in my rural constituency expressing my support for abortion legislation. I haven't had any response from either as yet.

This is a good idea. I've done the same. You know that they are receiving multiple contacts from the foaming-at-the-mouth anti abortionists and it's important to redress the balance to some extent. List of all Irish TDs' email addresses here..

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=8503

Sierra 117

The "pro-life" crowd makes me sick. They're not pro-life, they're pro-birth. All they care about is the cute lickle babies being born but there's no thought or concern put into what lives these children are going to have. No thought or concern given to the women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. No empathy or compassion.

goodie2shoes

Obliq wrote: »

Good idea. In this case it'll be the Legion of Mary or some crowd like that. Perhaps a parish volunteer. I suggest making a polite visit to your parish priest and explaining EXACTLY what the sign on your door means. Maybe point out the .....um.....factual errors in the leaflet while you're there? Always nice to be helpful.....::rolleyes:

indeed.
i'm sure they are reasonable people.
be wary of getting dragged into some drawn-out discussion though!
you wanna be home for Christmas!:D

oldrnwisr

Sierra 117 wrote: »

The "pro-life" crowd makes me sick. They're not pro-life, they're pro-birth. All they care about is the cute lickle babies being born but there's no thought or concern put into what lives these children are going to have. No thought or concern given to the women who find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. No empathy or compassion.

Yes, I think George Carlin summed it up perfectly:

Obliq

ninja900 wrote: »

FWIW as an Irish male, husband, father, I do feel all the discussion about the suicide ground being 'abused' etc. is highly offensive to women (and to those who have lost loved ones, male or female, through suicide) and I am angry that people think this is a legitimate stance to take.

It's the Irish version of 'legitimate rape' and just as brainless. 'Legitimate suicidal ideation' :mad:

and yes it makes me angry that people spout this crap, and get endless media exposure.

'sudo' = 'Super User DO', gives you god(ahem)-like powers on your linux/unix computer.

Thanks ninja - appreciated

On the suicidal ideation btw - how is it we are all trying to avoid triggering such notions as suicide being a solution for anything when it comes to teenagers perhaps being influenced into feeling so desperate, yet it's now being offered up as the only acceptable reason for an abortion to be accessed? How is that sane? And that's all I'll say on that subject, because the law is an ass and I remain angry about that. It won't change till we all get angry on each other's behalf though.

On "Super User DO" - DOES IT??!! Just got Linux - I know nothing about it yet, so must research that! Maybe it'll make Nodin's tay. Naturally, would offer a cuppa to anyone actually IN my house. I'm not sexist - I make tea occasionally

Knasher

Obliq wrote: »

On "Super User DO" - DOES IT??!! Just got Linux - I know nothing about it yet, so must research that! Maybe it'll make Nodin's tay. Naturally, would offer a cuppa to anyone actually IN my house. I'm not sexist - I make tea occasionally

Just be careful if your not all that used to using sudo. Especially at this time of year.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

ninja900 wrote: »

FWIW as an Irish male, husband, father, I do feel all the discussion about the suicide ground being 'abused' etc. is highly offensive to women (and to those who have lost loved ones, male or female, through suicide) and I am angry that people think this is a legitimate stance to take.

For the record, I think that an expression of anger absolutely beats the pants off any requirement to actually make sense. For that reason, I'm massively impressed by the insane expressions of anger by extreme pro-life advocates, particularly the ones who perversely engage in acts of terrorism.

Obliq wrote: »

On the suicidal ideation btw - how is it we are all trying to avoid triggering such notions as suicide being a solution for anything when it comes to teenagers perhaps being influenced into feeling so desperate, yet it's now being offered up as the only acceptable reason for an abortion to be accessed? How is that sane?

It's not being offered as the only acceptable reason. The situation is (as I think we all know) that the Courts have interpreted that the Constitution allows abortion only where there is a very substantial threat to the life of the mother, including a risk of suicide. But it is a GUBU situation that this leaves the debate framed in this way, as another poster pointed out in a recent post.

What it points to is a need for another referendum; the only legislation allowed by the current Constitution will make very little sense to anyone, whatever their stance. But, politically, maybe we will actually need to see a Bill published to see how dumb the situation will be.

Lingua Franca

fisgon wrote: »

Comments are disabled, but click on the "More info" button at the top. 5 likes, 82 dislikes.

Ratings are now disabled as well!

Hotblack Desiato

For Obliq: Unix (and Linux) forum might be handy...

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Ratings are now disabled as well!

Why am I not surprised. Freedom of expression, democracy, etc. are GREAT when it's their views being expressed, their referendum wording being pushed on the people...

Mark Hamill

Again, going to quote as little as possible to keep the post short.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Couple of thoughts:

1/2 are hard to respond to unless you propose an alternative. If the alternative is to have strict criteria and strong punishments, then that is arguable. If the alternative is to abandon the legilsation (which I think a lot of the people under 2 would suggest), then I don't agree with that

3 is pretty misogynistic. Its basically saying we can't trust distressed, but otherwise stable women, to not become unstable if we bring in the law.

5 is nonsensical, if you really believed that abortion is wrong. People going to the UK for abortion is not different (in terms of the end result of an aborted foetus) from abortion in Ireland (if it were available here). This notion that sending women to the UK is somehow better than having it here shows how hollow the anti abortioners arguments are. The arguments are shown to be, simply, "out of sight, out of mind".

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not necessarily. At this very moment, Marie Fleming is fighting a High Court case to establish her right to end her own life, and to be assisted in doing so. There are diverse and strongly-felt views on the ethical issues at stake, but I don’t think anyone suggests that she is mentally ill.

Would a desire to die not be different from a desire to self harm? Wasn't there a point made earlier in the thread that part of the problem in the current legislation that it says abortion can only be used to prevent a danger to a mothers life, not health? I may be remembering that wrong though.
Though, Mary Flemings case is different to a case of a pregnant woman being suicidal. The reasoning behind them are not the same, so the permission or allowance for one does not mean the permission for the other. Its assault to punch someone in the face in the street, its not assault to punch someone in a boxing match.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Perhaps more to the point, in the X case the (so far as I recall, uncontradicted) expert medical evidence was that the victim was not depressed, or suffering from any other mental illness. She saw self-harm as a rational response to the predicament she was in (and the self-harm could have take the form either of a suicide attempt or of an attempt to induce her own abortion). There was a “real and substantial threat” to her life arising out of that, despite the fact that she was not mentally ill in any way.

But she was distressed enough to honestly consider self harm. Would that distress not be considered to be negatively effecting her own mental health? Maybe its not labelled as a mental issue, but it is strongly associated with mental health.

Galvasean

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Ratings are now disabled as well!

Taking the ball and going home are they?

It seems those automated phonecalls are coming from the States (a group called Personhood USA) and do not fall under the DPC's jurisdiction.
http://www.krank.ie/category/society/abortion-robocalls-return/

iguana

What do they think those calls will achieve? If someone is on the fence about abortion I don't think an automated call is going to make them decide to be pro-life. If anything it's likely to piss them off or even creep them out a bit and turn them toward a pro-choice position.