Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

lazygal

seamus wrote: »

Direct quote from the Catholic representative at the talks yesterday: "It is not necessary to satisfy the European Court of Human Rights"

Exactly the kind of attitude I'd expect from that scummy organisation, "Let's ignore the authority on human rights, what do they know?"

Like Breda Iona O'Brien, they answer to a higher court, so why bother about pesky earthly courts.

swampgas

One area that hasn't received much attention, in my view, is the very restrictive nature of the options offered to the electorate in recent referendums.

Since the 8th amendment and the X case, the people have had a chance to evaluate the effect of the 8th amendment. The subsequent referendum where the people refused to restrict the right to travel means very clearly to me that the people do not agree with the intent of the 8th amendment, they do not agree that the life of the unborn has equal rights with the mother, as they explicitly and knowingly gave their assent to women travelling out of the country to have abortions.

Following that result, there should have been a further debate and the people should have been offered another referendum to repeal the 8th amendment, as (IMO) it is not safe to say that they still support it.

I really believe the government has failed in its duty to reflect the will of the people in this respect.

Ash.J.Williams

swampgas wrote: »

Somebody in the Health Committee hearings in the last few days referred to "pre-born children". This is probably how many anti-abortion people really think though - they really think abortion in the first trimester is the same as killing a 3 year old.

Yeah but if you want a child, then it is a preborn child

Bobby42

Sarky wrote: »

That's the trouble with lying, really. It gets increasingly difficult to maintain such an alternate reality web of people, places and events. It's inevitable that it'll eventually collapse.

Oh dear, the web of lies is begining to collapse alright...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/11/more-pro-lies/

Not only did Caroline Simons feature in the culture of death video but she was on one of the networks interview shows.

But maybe she has forgotten about this too.

lazygal

Bobby42 wrote: »

Oh dear, the web of lies is begining to collapse alright...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/11/more-pro-lies/

Not only did Caroline Simons feature in the culture of death video but she was on one of the networks interview shows.

But maybe she has forgotten about this too.

Two words: mental reservation. Or does that only apply to clerics?

lazygal

Check out her website!
http://www.carolinesimons.ie/Home.html


eta: https://twitter.com/carolinesimons

She's been called on her naughty fibs.

swampgas

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Yeah but if you want a child, then it is a preborn child

True, but if you miscarry in the first trimester (which is very common) you don't tend to be impacted the way the death of a three your old toddler would impact you - the latter usually being completely devastating.

LittleBook

Bobby42 wrote: »

Oh dear, the web of lies is begining to collapse alright...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/11/more-pro-lies/

Not only did Caroline Simons feature in the culture of death video but she was on one of the networks interview shows.

But maybe she has forgotten about this too.

I'll bet she'd love to forget about this too ... this is the priest who interviewd her on EWTN: :rolleyes:

Rev Benedict Groeschel Says Abuse Victims Can Be Seducers

“Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him,” Father Groeschel, now 79, said in the interview. “A lot of the cases, the youngster — 14, 16, 18 — is the seducer.”

He added that he was “inclined to think” that priests who were first-time abusers should not be jailed because “their intention was not committing a crime.”

Asked if he counseled priests who were abusers, he said yes, and then offered a sympathetic portrait. “People have this picture in their minds of a person planning to — a psychopath, but that’s not the case,” he said. Asked why a child might act as a seducer, he said: “A kid looking for a father and didn’t have his own — and they won’t be planning to get into heavy-duty sex, but almost romantic, embracing, kissing, perhaps sleeping but not having intercourse or anything like that.”

He also expressed sympathy for Jerry Sandusky, the retired Penn State football coach who was recently convicted of serial child molesting, calling him “this poor guy.”

FFS :mad:

old hippy

swampgas wrote: »

Somebody in the Health Committee hearings in the last few days referred to "pre-born children". This is probably how many anti-abortion people really think though - they really think abortion in the first trimester is the same as killing a 3 year old.

pre-born children sounds like some kind of convenience food

Galvasean

Obliq wrote: »

FFS, the cheek of the slimey little bollix:

12.27 – Rónán Mullen has a point of order – asking if one person who attended was mistakenly overlooked. He says it would be “appropriate and generous” if an opportunity was given to pro-life barrister Maria Steen (who is present alongside the panellists, though not a panellist herself) to speak to the committee.

:mad::mad::mad: aaaand....sure enough:

Maria Steen, a barrister with Iona, is invited to step in to comment

So wait, you can just invite your buddies up to speak now?

On a related note, how many IONA people have spoke thus far outside of the designated spot for the IONA Institute?

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

So wait, you can just invite your buddies up to speak now?

Awaiting the call from Ailbhe and Ivana so...:p

aloyisious

Just on a point raised somewhere yesterday (can't remember where I saw it) that the amendment voted down was voted down solely on the suicide-threat issue, not on saving the feotus from abortion.

swampgas

aloyisious wrote: »

Just on a point raised somewhere yesterday (can't remember where I saw it) that the amendment voted down was voted down solely on the suicide-threat issue, not on saving the feotus from abortion.

Plenty of info here, if the history of this issue interests you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

Sarky

Sarky wrote: »

I've just discovered that a sure-fire way of gaining flocks of followers on Twitter is to call out David Quinn on his despicable bull****.

At least until he blocks you. Must have hit a nerve with the anti-vaccination reference.

PopePalpatine

Have you tried to get #DavidQuinnIsAPoisonousC.uni trending?

aloyisious

@swampgas: Ta for that. Para 3 of History Section refers to 2002 25th amendment vote, re denying abortion in cases of suicide threats. The electorate voted down the amendment, thus allowing the medical profession here to proceed with legal abortions in cases of verifiable suicide threats, if I'm reading that quote correctly.

Obliq

aloyisious wrote: »

@swampgas: Ta for that. Para 3 of History Section refers to 2002 25th amendment vote, re denying abortion in cases of suicide threats. The electorate voted down the amendment, thus allowing the medical profession here to proceed with legal abortions in cases of verifiable suicide threats, if I'm reading that quote correctly.

Not without legislation to back up the vote - hence the 20 yr wait.

Hotblack Desiato

loveisdivine wrote: »

YD and Precious Life claiming that abortion wont be going ahead at the Marie Stopes clinic in Belfast.

The justice committee doesn't have the power to stop them. AFAIK the local authority has given planning permission, they're the only people who can prevent a legitimate business from trading :rolleyes:

noreprieve

Apologies i know i mentioned this elsewhere but this thread is both active and relevant.

The alleged maternal health symposium had a photographer at the event that uploads everything to his site and he happens to have photos of Niamh Ni Bhrian and Ide Nic Mathuna posing for photos at this symposium on maternal health:
http://imgur.com/a/2cBIg#0 - "International symposium on maternal health"

Two other men featured in the symposiums photographs can also be found at the prolife boot camp they held, along with a slideshow featuring a map of Dublin and what i would guess are questions they are training people to reply to:
http://imgur.com/a/bS2wZ#0 - prolife bootcamp looks like it was also deleted, reupped!
If you need to confirm , all the images are sitting right here , along with more up close shots of the "vigil for life", and some decent countryside pictures.
http://paulkeelingeventphotography.z...com/f433079832

Note: they have since pulled the symposium photographs from the site.

But wait! theres more! slideshow of the vigil for life that actually makes it look more aged and religious than the Irish times allegedly did http://paulkeelingeventphotography.z...2627/slideshow

eyescreamcone

The stats and polls clearly show that the anti-abortion roadshow is an old person agenda/opinion.

These old busybodies are from a time that Ireland is trying to get over. These people can't help interfering in other people's business. They like to tell us all how we should live our lives. This model of society is finished. 3 cheers!!!

In 1983 the interfering class mustered 66%. These numbers have long deserted this group as most are residing 6 feet under at this stage.

The pro choice group have up to 66% at the moment (latest poll).

How much higher would this number be for those aged 20-40???

The church, Iona and youth defence realise that they are now paddling against a river in full flow against them.

Any politicians who don't get on board with the youth/numbers are buying extinction for themselves and their party.

Galvasean

noreprieve wrote: »

But wait! theres more! slideshow of the vigil for life that actually makes it look more aged and religious than the Irish times allegedly did http://paulkeelingeventphotography.z...2627/slideshow

That link is down. It'd be interesting to see...

Turtwig

May be wrong here but hasn't support for the Pro-choice position actually decreased? They may still be ahead in the polls but I find it hard to believe that all these misinformation campaigns aren't having an effect on the uninformed.

The Black Oil

This is it.

eyescreamcone

Jernal wrote: »

May be wrong here but hasn't support for the Pro-choice position actually decreased? They may still be ahead in the polls but I find it hard to believe that all these misinformation campaigns aren't having an effect on the uninformed.

Pro choice had 33% in 1983.
They are a few points up on that at the moment I believe.

In fact abortion on request is presently in the mid 20s. It would be interesting to find out what percentage of twenty-somethings would be pro abortion on request.

The old way is over!

lazygal

Jernal wrote: »

May be wrong here but hasn't support for the Pro-choice position actually decreased? They may still be ahead in the polls but I find it hard to believe that all these misinformation campaigns aren't having an effect on the uninformed.

Given that anti choicers like Caroline Simons have been caught telling outright untruths to a committee of the Oireachtas I think a lot of people won't be listening to them as a credible source of information.

Turtwig

eyescreamcone wrote: »

Pro choice had 33% in 1983.
They are a few points up on that at the moment I believe.

A few! Way to be subtle.

No, I was referring to the past decade and few years. Since before YD and its ilk began its latest militant campaign compared to now. It'd be awesome if they actually lost support. But it's something I find hard to believe given their resources.

Galvasean

The Black Oil wrote: »

This is it. http://paulkeelingeventphotography.zenfolio.com/p831692627

Certainly looks like the key demograph was much older than the pro-life video that popped up in my Facebook newsfeed implied. They must have gathered the half dozen women in their 20s and lumped them all in in front of the camera.

noreprieve

The Black Oil wrote: »

This is it. http://paulkeelingeventphotography.zenfolio.com/p831692627

yeah thats it, bad call on Youth Defences part for calling another prolife vigil on the 19th that will occur in the middle off or immediately after a cold snap.

Sarky

eyescreamcone wrote: »

The old way is over!

Not quite yet it's not. You'd be amazed what spite can do to keep an old coot alive.

Galvasean

Jernal wrote: »

No, I was referring to the past decade and few years. Since before YD and its ilk began its latest militant campaign compared to now. It'd be awesome if they actually lost support. But it's something I find hard to believe given their resources.

You'd have to wonder. I've noticed a few facebook friends 'liking' their propaganda in the last while...