Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Sarky

Obliq wrote: »

Nah, that's sticky bombing, that is...

More of a fun snap tbh :pac:

Mark Hamill

Galvasean wrote: »

'Love bombing' sounds like what I do all over the monitor after watching too much red tube.

Bannasidhe

Apparently Dr Rhona Mahoney is nothing but a hysterical woman...:rolleyes:

Trevor Hayes, a consultant obstetrician at St Luke's Hospital, said he found her remarks to be "histrionic".

"I never heard of any doctor being concerned about the gardai coming in. When you are a doctor, your first law is to above all, do no harm. If you have to bring forward a delivery to save a mother's life, you are clear, as a doctor."

Dr Hayes was one of the signatories of a letter to the committee from obstetricians opposed to legislating for abortion. The letter protested at a perceived lack of balance in Tuesday's hearings.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/maternity-chief-accused-of-histrionics-3350345.html

B0jangles

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Apparently Dr Rhona Mahoney is nothing but a hysterical woman...:rolleyes:



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/maternity-chief-accused-of-histrionics-3350345.html

Yeah, that really jumped out at me - extremely questionable choice of word.

lazygal

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Apparently Dr Rhona Mahoney is nothing but a hysterical woman...:rolleyes:



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/maternity-chief-accused-of-histrionics-3350345.html

Well Irish women know who to steer clear of for maternity care. Thanks Trev!

Turtwig

a letter to the committee from obstetricians opposed to legislating for abortion. The letter protested at a perceived lack of balance in Tuesday's hearings.

They got Patricia Casey in there. Who else they did fecking want!?

Mr. CooL ICE

Anyone get this month's Alive magazine? I was honestly expecting it to be full of fireworks and page turns with popup paper dead fetuses but was a little disappointed.

Hotblack Desiato

They've stopped putting it through our door. Shame...

robindch

Haven't seen it thankfully, but you can download last month's one here:

http://www.alive.ie/uploads/6/5/1/1/6511516/alive_dec_2012.pdf

All the usual stuff.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

B0jangles wrote: »

Yeah, that really jumped out at me - extremely questionable choice of word.

The wording might be questionable, but if he wanted to question the validity of her testimony, he'd be on stronger ground. Bear in mind that she said something to the effect that "as a woman" she was offended by suggestions that women would be willing to fabricate reasons to obtain terminations. In a context where access to abortion in the UK involves women and doctors routinely engaging in fabrication, her "offence" is clearly BS of the high order. It's at the same level as the police chief's mock outrage in Casablanca as he closes down Rick's cafe because he's "shocked, shocked to discover that gambling has been going on", as a waiter passes him his roulette winnings.

The public debate on abortion has been reasonably civilised, and that's not a bad thing. However, it would benefit from some more candour. I get the impression that some groups (and I'd guess this includes the maternity hospitals) just want to bluff through something that solves some local, sectoral problem, rather than grasping the whole issue.

Additionally, the number of times you hear some member of the Cognoscenti defensively saying "but we can't operate on the basis that the Supreme Court gets it wrong sometimes" sort of illustrates that lack of candour. The deeper we get into this thing, the more obvious it becomes that it just won't be possible to coherently frame a very limited abortion regime that includes suicide in its scope. We either have a very limited regime, or we widen the scope to include broader grounds. Neither of those options can be pursued without a referendum.

No offence intended, Rhona. Then again, I can't see why anyone would have grounds for offence.

Galvasean

Bannasidhe wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/maternity-chief-accused-of-histrionics-3350345.html

"The letter protested at a perceived lack of balance in Tuesday's hearings."

How many religions and pro-life groups (not to mention IONA Institute members representing themselves through other avenues and invited speakers) were there? Especially when you consider the UK based groups that give abortions to Irish women and deal with them directly were not invited...

lazygal

Galvasean wrote: »

"The letter protested at a perceived lack of balance in Tuesday's hearings."

How many religions and pro-life groups (not to mention IONA Institute members representing themselves through other avenues and invited speakers) were there? Especially when you consider the UK based groups that give abortions to Irish women and deal with them directly were not invited...

I didn't hear from any woman who decided it'd be easier all round to avail of the humane British abortion regime than be forced to carry a dead foetus to term either. Given that Mullen said they had a wider agenda I'm not surprised they didn't want to encounter him again.

Bannasidhe

Galvasean wrote: »

"The letter protested at a perceived lack of balance in Tuesday's hearings."

How many religions and pro-life groups (not to mention IONA Institute members representing themselves through other avenues and invited speakers) were there? Especially when you consider the UK based groups that give abortions to Irish women and deal with them directly were not invited...

Ah sure, any hope I had of objectivity and balance has long since been abandoned. In true Irish style those who are benefiting from the lack of balance are the ones complaining loudly if anyone who disagrees with them is allowed to voice their point of view while slinging emotive comments around rather than making any actual valid points.

aloyisious

I won't be going to it myself as I don't follow that camp, but the Pro-life crew have posters up advertizing one of their rallies for 4.30 PM on Sat next at Merrion Square. So if you're not of that group, the square might be a place to avoid.

Galvasean

Good day for me to be leaving the country so.

Bobby42

Nice to see the calm and reasonable debate on abortion continue..

oh wait...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/15/murder-they-wrote/

This got me thinking about the whole life begins at conception argument.

If you follow this logic through, surely as soon as a woman's pregnancy test turns positive, the child should get a PPS number?

Surely parents should be able to claim child benefit as soon as the the pregnancy test comes back positive?

And the question in the census should be changed from "how many children have you given birth to?" to "how many positive pregnancy tests have you had?"

If a "pre born child" has the right to life, what other rights does it have?

Bannasidhe

Bobby42 wrote: »

Nice to see the calm and reasonable debate on abortion continue..

oh wait...

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/15/murder-they-wrote/

This got me thinking about the whole life begins at conception argument.

If you follow this logic through, surely as soon as a woman's pregnancy test turns positive, the child should get a PPS number?

Surely parents should be able to claim child benefit as soon as the the pregnancy test comes back positive?

And the question in the census should be changed from "how many children have you given birth to?" to "how many positive pregnancy tests have you had?"

If a "pre born child" has the right to life, what other rights does it have?

A share of our national debt?

Sarky

Right to education. I don't understand why de gub'mint fails to get Montessori teachers into the womb. They must hate the unborn!

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

Right to education. I don't understand why de gub'mint fails to get Montessori teachers into the womb. They must hate the unborn!

Coming to a jobsbridge scheme near you soon.

noreprieve

I seem to be getting flooded with facebook adverts now that almost pathetic.

So pathetic i almost didn't bother ... but i had to.




edit: oh meatballs it's huge

Sarky

That's just creepy. And mostly elderly.

efb

spot the pick pocket, as long he's not robbing their foetuses

noreprieve

Sarky wrote: »

That's just creepy. And mostly elderly.

It Reminds me of a father ted episode..

rainbow kirby

noreprieve wrote: »

It Reminds me of a father ted episode..

"Tell Eoin we think he's lovely..." :pac:

GCU Flexible Demeanour

Bobby42 wrote: »

<..>

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/15/murder-they-wrote/

<...>

I was passing down Kildare Street, and saw that "No Rights For the Unborn" placard. Just for a moment, I thought it was someone on the pro-choice side deciding that they weren't going to mince their words.

I was on the verge of going over to commend them for their candour, when I noticed the "Will Enda Kenny Legalise Murder" placard (or something like that). It might have taken me a moment, but I sort of figured out that this was not actually what the protestor wanted the Taoiseach to do.

Very complex, this whole abortion thing.

Bannasidhe

Sadly, this is true.

Sarky

I don't recall any of them saying "Oh, I'm sorry you're hungry"...

Bobby42

They couldn't care less about hungry children.

Were they out protesting against the cuts to child benefit?

Were there any "Labour: keep your child benefit promises!" posters?

What about the sick children lying in outdated underfunded hospitals?

Were are their fundraisers for that?

No, they truly couldn't care less.

Its all about controlling women and nothing about children.

In fact, youth defence really should just go ahead and change their name to fetus defence.

Having "youth" in their name may give the false impression that they remotely care about anyone over a day old.

jank

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Sadly, this is true.

Yes, its true of course in your head, just as god is true in the popes head.

Sarky wrote: »

I don't recall any of them saying "Oh, I'm sorry you're hungry"...

Who are "them"?

lazygal

Interesting letter in the Irish Times today, see below. Glad to see Breda Iona O'Brien being called out on how she twists other people's narratives to suit her conservative, anti women agenda. I wonder will she bother to respond?




Sir, – I am an activist who blogs about the intersection of adoption and social justice at “The Declassified Adoptee”. Before Breda O’Brien’s December 22nd column, Irish Times readers probably had never heard of me. Despite being an outspoken pro-choice feminist living in a country that largely acknowledges a woman’s right to choose, my narrative still made up a large portion of Ms OBriens pro-life piece. In light of Ms O’Brien’s assertion that she cares about other women, the reason why she appropriated the most sensitive variable of my life story for her personal agenda concerns me.

When I disclosed the fact that I was conceived from rape on my blog, I specified that my purpose for doing so was to provide the perspective of someone who was not using that narrative to fuel the pro-life agenda. Few online resources exist to offer emotional support to the individual conceived from rape. Rather, most resources on this topic seek to appropriate these narratives as a political platform. While what a given person does with their own life story is up to them, I think it is offensive to seek out these tragic narratives for political use. I make my opinion on this matter abundantly clear on my blog.

Ms O’Brien implied there is irony between my pro-choice stance and the fact that I was not aborted by my mother allows me to be here to advocate for others today. She repeats stereotypes and assumptions about individuals conceived from rape and their mothers. She assumes that my mother considered abortion, and that she knows why my mother “chose life”.

Ms O’Brien is not privy to my mother’s personal thoughts on the topic. My mother’s reproductive choices are none of Ms O’Brien’s business any more than they are mine.

My conception circumstances have little to do with my stance on choice and women’s health care. The reason I am pro-choice is because if I were pregnant and needed an abortion to save my life, I would want the choice not to leave my children without their mother. My human rights as a person entitle me to choice over my own body at all times, without the prying eyes and judgmental commentary of other people.

There are plenty of pro-life individuals who were conceived from rape that this columnist could have chosen to quote. In fact, several are much more active in abortion policy than am I. The reason Ms O’Brien appropriated my story seems to be because she believes she can do a better job at assigning meaning to the tragedy in my life narrative than I have.

In the same type of paternalistic move that tells women they aren’t capable of responsible control over their own bodies, Ms O’Brien negated my right to self-direct my own narrative. I will not be a party to the construction of hierarchies of women where those with privilege see fit to direct both the choices and stories of others. Today, I take my narrative back. – Yours, etc,

AMANDA WOOLSTON
E Mt Vernon Street,
Oxford,
Pennsylvania,
US.