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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #4052
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    If you love your country it is time to make a choice whether you want Ireland to be religious like France and Spain (secular with large Catholic majority who are completely free to follow Catholicism, but not to force it on others) or religious like Iran! Right now Ireland is closer to Iran's level of state religious observance! I haven't heard the many devout Catholics of France complaining that they can't force their beliefs, via state institutions, on those who don't share them. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad here either!


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    #4053
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Might as well put this here as anywhere....
    RTÉ News has learned that a request by Savita Halappanavar for a termination of pregnancy while she was at Galway University Hospital is recorded in the medical notes by the consultant obstetrician and gynaecologist that treated her before she died.
    It is the first official confirmation of the request since the case became public three months ago and comes before the inquest into her death opens in Galway tomorrow.
    The request was made within days of her admission to the hospital on 21 October.
    The notes also indicate that it was not possible to comply with the request.
    Her life was not believed to have been at risk at the time.
    The 31-year-old dentist from India was 17 weeks pregnant and was miscarrying when she attended the hospital on 21 October complaining of back pain.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0117/savita-halappanavar-galway.html


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    #4054
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    Jernal wrote: »
    I completely agree that abstinence only education does not work. I should have put this in my initial post that I don't agree with the logic, but I was just trying to convey very briefly that they do take family planning into account. To me anyway the poster was implying that they don't take family planning into account and that they're apathetic towards children who are born. The point is they do take it into account and they do have sympathy. It's a horrible form of fatalism, but they have sympathy for all those who suffer nonetheless.


    My point about constructiveness was that any hopes of ever getting them to understand your position dwindle substantially when you use arguments like that. It's a bit like calling a Christian deluded, or a person opposed to gays adopting kids a bigot. And just leaving it there. Yes, they are bigots, probably with good intentions too, but unless you take the time to explain to them why they're bigots you're just going to alienate them further. What you want is they themselves to realise that they're views were bigoted without you explicitly telling them so. Pointing out quite blatantly that they're bigots will just get you one big massive stonewall.


    I'm going to make this quick because I think that we're pretty much on the same page here having read your post.

    First off, from my perspective its not that these people are apathetic towards children that are born its just that their other behaviour puts them at odds with their pro-life objectives. They end up talking out of both sides of their mouths. One example of this is the political debacle in the US last year when Republicans voted for sweeping cuts to Head Start, a programme designed to help poor and disadvantaged children get a better education. Another example of this is their anti-contraception stance. Contraception is an important measure if they really do want to reduce abortions and yet they're against it. They continually indicate that they're not interested in building bridges but rather browbeat the other side into their specific worldview.

    I agree with you on the why argument. I think it is a good idea to try and build debate by saying you're wrong because rather than simply you're wrong. Sometimes, however this isn't always possible and so it is much more effective at times to use messages like the one which sparked off this side topic. Also I'd like to point out that you're not always debating to convince your opponent but also to convince a neutral observer. Succinct messages like that can be very useful in those circumstances.


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    #4055
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Nodin wrote: »
    Might as well put this here as anywhere....


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0117/savita-halappanavar-galway.html

    An awful lot of arseholes owe Praveen Halappanavar an awful lot of apologies.


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    #4056
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    jill_valentine wrote: »

    An awful lot of arseholes owe Praveen Halappanavar an awful lot of apologies.
    Starting with Youth Defence and its appalling Savita facts website, Caroline Simons and every member of the Iona Institute.


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    #4057
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Hold the Fort Plebs! RTE is anti Catholic, remember? Of course, they'd say this.


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    #4058
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    "Savita Facts" indeed.
    Savita Journalist admits facts ‘muddled’ & there was ‘no request for termination’.

    Kitty Holland, the journalist who wrote Savita died after being refused an abortion, now admits the facts were ‘muddled’ and there may have been ‘no request for a termination’
    http://savitafacts.com/

    "fuck yez" is my reasoned response to that shower.


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    #4059
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    If you love your country it is time to make a choice whether you want Ireland to be religious like France and Spain (secular with large Catholic majority who are completely free to follow Catholicism, but not to force it on others) or religious like Iran! Right now Ireland is closer to Iran's level of state religious observance! I haven't heard the many devout Catholics of France complaining that they can't force their beliefs, via state institutions, on those who don't share them. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad here either!

    The same France where half a million people took to the streets last week to protest against gay marriage?


  • Options
    #4060
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Nodin wrote: »
    Might as well put this here as anywhere....


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0117/savita-halappanavar-galway.html

    Makes you wonder what the "We don't have all the facts" apologists will try next.


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    #4061
    Bobby42
    Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Bobby42


    "Reality has a well known liberal bias"

    Steven Colbert.


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    #4062
    Sierra 117
    Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭Sierra 117


    They'll start shouting "An abortion wouldn't have saved her." or something like that.


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    #4063
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, as this stage you should produce the quote that backs your statement, should it exist. Should that not exist, you may proceed to garner attention by a humorous Widow Twanky style monologue.
    No need for a quote, I have a sentimental GIF that Ban posted.
    Nodin, were you a prefect in school?;)


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    #4064
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    robindch wrote: »
    The counter-rally comes to the attention of the Irish Times:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2013/0117/breaking20.html
    Counter-demonstration organiser Sarah Malone said she was planning the event for around a week now, as she is “offended and outraged” that the vigil is being organised to protest legislation against the X case. “The level of outrage is so high that we can’t just sit by and watch as this happens. It is undemocratic for them to present themselves as a majority when it is clear through a series of polls and referenda that that is not the case and it’s outrageous that they would apply pressure on legislators not to legislate for something the people clearly want,” she said.

    Hmmm so its undemocractic to lobby government or have a demonstation now? The people may want to legislate for the x case but its clear that abortion on demand is not what the people want... for now anyway. Yet Sarah Malone thinks the opposite, she freely admits to wanting this. She is of course free to say what see wants, lobby who she wants but by her own standards this is "undemocratic".

    Numpties on both sides. Cant stand them.


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    #4065
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    If you love your country it is time to make a choice whether you want Ireland to be religious like France and Spain (secular with large Catholic majority who are completely free to follow Catholicism, but not to force it on others) or religious like Iran! Right now Ireland is closer to Iran's level of state religious observance! I haven't heard the many devout Catholics of France complaining that they can't force their beliefs, via state institutions, on those who don't share them. Maybe it wouldn't be that bad here either!

    Sensationalist ignorant nonsense.


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    #4066
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Galvasean wrote: »
    The same France where half a million people took to the streets last week to protest against gay marriage?

    - and sixty four and a half million other people didn't. A little OT, but folks tend to forget, there are a lot of French people.


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    #4067
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    No need for a quote, I have a sentimental GIF that Ban posted.

    So "no" then.
    jank wrote: »
    Nodin, were you a prefect in school?;)

    No, I left at 15, worked as a labourer for 4 years and then went back (elsewhere) to do the leaving.


  • Options
    #4068
    jank
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,018 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Nodin wrote: »
    So "no" then..

    Look at the picture and you tell me if that is how 100% of pro choice people think, then kindly back it up with peer re-viewed research....

    Nodin wrote: »
    No, I left at 15, worked as a labourer for 4 years and then went back (elsewhere) to do the leaving.
    Yeap, figures alright.


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    #4069
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Insightful as always....



    "Austerity isn't working, say NO to abortion"

    Just reading this thread now. I wanna put that on a t shirt. Real Irish zeitgeist stuff. Impressed.


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    #4070
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    jank wrote: »
    Hmmm so its undemocractic to lobby government or have a demonstation now? The people may want to legislate for the x case but its clear that abortion on demand is not what the people want... for now anyway. Yet Sarah Malone thinks the opposite, she freely admits to wanting this. She is of course free to say what see wants, lobby who she wants but by her own standards this is "undemocratic".

    Numpties on both sides. Cant stand them.

    It is undemocratic to demand that the government not legislate to allow our Republic to run according to it's constitution. These people want the government not to legislate for what is a constitutional right so as to make it difficult to access that right. That's a micro dictatorship, not a democracy.


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    #4071
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    jank wrote: »
    ..............

    Yeap, figures alright.


    Funny, you were implying the opposite. Do please explain.


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    #4072
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    jank wrote:
    Nodin wrote: »
    No, I left at 15, worked as a labourer for 4 years and then went back (elsewhere) to do the leaving.
    Yeap, figures alright.
    jank, you reported a complete non-post earlier yesterday, but then go on to post this. Any more of this type of crap will be your last post in this thread.


  • Options
    #4073
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Nodin wrote: »
    "Savita Facts" indeed.

    http://savitafacts.com/
    Someone might want to screengrab some of that before it is edited as the "facts" actually come out.


  • Options
    #4074
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,798 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Dades wrote: »
    Someone might want to screengrab some of that before it is edited as the "facts" actually come outb

    Done and attached for posterity.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Options
    #4075
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I wonder if Praveen hadn't gone to the media would the incomplete files ever have mysteriouly turned up? From listening to his solicitor on RTE news last evening, the incomplete notes were submitted, pages were missing, and yet now the inquest is imminent they've turned up? The fact medical notes went missing is worthy of another investigation. When I was in hospital having my daughter my files were always available for me to check, and I was given a form in a pack before I left should i want to request a copy. Everything about my predelivery, delievery and post op (had a c section) care was recorded, even to the times the nurses checked my baby's nappies in the nursery and when she was brought to me for feeds at night. My husband would have known instantly if anything was missing and would have wondered why and how pages could have gone missing easily from what was essentially a bound file.


  • Options
    #4076
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,798 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    another screenshot from another group who claimed no abortion was requested.

    236835.JPG

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #4077
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    koth wrote: »
    another screenshot from another group who claimed no abortion was requested.

    They really don't live in the real world, do they?


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    #4078
    pauldla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭pauldla


    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    They really don't live in the real world, do they?

    Alas, if only that were true! It'd be a better world without YD.

    (braces for accusations of demanding genocide of YD)


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    #4079
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    pauldla wrote: »
    (braces for accusations of demanding genocide of YD)

    That's ok, ISAW isn't on boards any more.


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    #4080
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    Ok, this really pulls the piss.....get a load of this people :confused::confused::confused:

    These are in a Dublin bar. Still working on which one.....maybe you can figure it out. Btw, if any of you leave any bars in disgust at these, be sure to let the bar know why they're losing business......

    183689_190303520992999_5412838_n.jpg
    181591_190303697659648_1429045_n.jpg

    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/01/17/pro-life-beermats/#comments


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    #4081
    Obliq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,371 ✭✭✭Obliq


    pauldla wrote: »
    Alas, if only that were true! It'd be a better world without YD.

    (braces for accusations of demanding genocide of YD)

    Unfortunately not just YD, see above...:mad:

    (Oops, new page. See previous page!)


This discussion has been closed.
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