Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

krudler

Methody wrote: »

Gardai have now updated their official figures to "over 25,000".

Face it guys. You lost the battle today. The war to protect life will continue.

Don'y you mean the war to tell women what to do with their own bodies? call a spade a spade

Methody

lazygal wrote: »

I'm going to relish the day the Bill is passed and signed into law by the President, no doubt to a chorus of footstamping and wailing about tiiiiiiineeeeee baaaaaaabieeeeees from the anti choice side, who'll rush behind William Binchy to the courts to have it found unconstitutional. And when it is found to be constitutional I'm going to be like this: :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D when I see all the anti choicers all riled up about how they finally stopped getting their own way.

You sound exactly like someone, with no conscience, who's had a hand to play in the death of an unborn child.

lazygal

Methody wrote: »

Right and wrong are absolute, not relative. What's right is right independent of the individual. The opening of abortion clinics in this country would be gravely immoral and therefore any attack on its operation would be fully justified.

Should you not be lobbying for the right to travel for pregnant women to be repealed in case they are taking their unborn baaaaaabieeeeees to other countries to be killed? Seems like it would be immoral not to have such a campaign.

B0jangles

Methody wrote: »

Gardai have now updated their official figures to "over 25,000".

Face it guys. You lost the battle today. The war to protect life will continue.

No, the battle to just begin to allow a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body is slowly being won, Methody.

As posted before, the Red-C poll taken late last year found that:

• Over a third (35%) of the electorate directly support the governments decision to legalise the X case
• A further 29% would go further and support legalising abortion in any case where a woman requests it.
• A quarter of the electorate (26%) preferring to see a constitutional amendment to limit the X case, by excluding the threat of suicide to the mothers life as a reason for abortion,
• 8% do not want to see any legalisation of abortion law.

http://redcresearch.ie/news/support-for-fine-gael-continues-to-decline

FYI it's easy to gather a moderately large crowd from all over the country when the majority of your supporters are retired and have travel passes.

Time is most definitely not on your side.

CorkBabe33

Methody wrote: »

Gardai have now updated their official figures to "over 25,000".

Face it guys. You lost the battle today. The war to protect life will continue.

Oh dear, it's stuff like this that really turns me against the 'pro-life' campaigners, which is sad because I personally don't agree with abortion. But that is my own opinion & I don't believe I have any right to force my opinion/belief on anyone else ...

Delirium

Methody wrote: »

Are you suggesting that women are dying in Irish hospitals (including catholic ones) due to doctors failing to intervene in a life-threatening situation?

I don't know as it would require an examination of all deaths of pregnant women in Ireland. But we do know that there are women who don't receive necessary medical intervention and are travelling to the UK to get the necessary treatment.

Remember there were over 30 such interventions last year, most of them occurred in catholic hospitals. And the church has no moral issue with those interventions.

But it does have problems with many of the abortions that would be deemed as necessary but are performed by hospitals in the UK and other countries.

lazygal

Methody wrote: »

You sound exactly like someone, with no conscience, who's had a hand to play in the death of an unborn child.

You know me so well! Irish women will be only delighted to start aborting their tiiiiineeeeeee baaaaabieeeeees. Sure I have a baby already, what would I be doing with another one?

Methody

swampgas wrote: »

I disagree. I suppose you consider yourself the expert on what is (absolutely) right and wrong - so everyone has do do what you think, even if most people disagree with you?

If right and wrong aren't absolute, then what is your alternative? Democracies are all well and good for the most part, but complex moral scenarios can and do arise. To solve these issues we must appeal to a moral authority. Experts who have studied for many years and have earned the respect of their peers. Career politicians are not best placed to make such decisions. Nor is the populace who are generally educated to a mediocre level and make decisions based on self-serving whims and fashions of the day. To farm out complex moral issues to be decided by populism is a form of tyranny.

Methody

lazygal wrote: »

You know me so well! Irish women will be only delighted to start aborting their tiiiiineeeeeee baaaaabieeeeees. Sure I have a baby already, what would I be doing with another one?

He/she should count themselves lucky.

lazygal

Methody wrote: »

He/she should count themselves lucky.

In the future, she'll hopefully benefit from a more liberal abortion regime, should she want to remove a clump of cells that has taken up residence in her uterus. The battle for women goes on.

lazygal

As a matter of interest Methody, how do you help women with unwanted pregnancies?

B0jangles

Methody wrote: »

If right and wrong aren't absolute, then what is your alternative? Democracies are all well and good for the most part, but complex moral scenarios can and do arise. To solve these issues we must appeal to a moral authority. Experts who have studied for many years and have earned the respect of their peers. Career politicians are not best placed to make such decisions. Nor is the populace who are generally educated to a mediocre level and make decisions based on self-serving whims and fashions of the day. To farm out complex moral issues to be decided by populism is a form of tyranny.

Who are these "Moral authorities" we should be referring to?

fatmammycat

lazygal wrote: »

In the future, she'll hopefully benefit from a more liberal abortion regime, should she want to remove a clump of cells that has taken up residence in her uterus. The battle for women goes on.

What?! You mean you want your daughter to own her own uterus, and not the state?? * is shocked*

ShooterSF

Methody wrote: »

Right and wrong are absolute, not relative. What's right is right independent of the individual. The opening of abortion clinics in this country would be gravely immoral and therefore any attack on its operation would be fully justified.

Ah I see. So what you are saying is your version of what is right and wrong is the correct one and people should ignore the democratic process where they differ. Like some kind of dictatorship.

@Jank
See this person is an exact representative of my point that the lobbyists are undemocratic. They even showed up at an almost perfect time.

Methody

B0jangles wrote: »

Who are these "Moral authorities" we should be referring to?

The church know a hell of a lot better than the likes of Ivana Bacik who is an extremist liberal and was rejected by the most liberal constituency in the country! lol.

swampgas

Methody wrote: »

If right and wrong aren't absolute, then what is your alternative? Democracies are all well and good for the most part, but complex moral scenarios can and do arise. To solve these issues we must appeal to a moral authority. Experts who have studied for many years and have earned the respect of their peers. Career politicians are not best placed to make such decisions. Nor is the populace who are generally educated to a mediocre level and make decisions based on self-serving whims and fashions of the day. To farm out complex moral issues to be decided by populism is a form of tyranny.

That basically makes you against democracy. You think an elite (the Pope? Bishops? Who?) should decide for the people.

Is this not also a form of tyranny?

A Primal Nut

krudler wrote: »

Don'y you mean the war to tell women what to do with their own bodies? call a spade a spade

Regardless of your opinion on abortion, I don't know how people can't see the baby as a separate body to the mothers, especially in late term.

lazygal

fatmammycat wrote: »

What?! You mean you want your daughter to own her own uterus, and not the state?? * is shocked*

I'll pull up this fainting couch and grab the smelling salts for you.

Methody

swampgas wrote: »

That basically makes you against democracy. You think an elite (the Pope? Bishops? Who?) should decide for the people.

Do you also agree with the Taliban?

Democracy has many flaws. Are you suggesting democracy is a perfect system?

I would have no problem living in a catholic theocracy. Living in a democracy is fine for me too. However, politicians must be continually kept in check by their constituents and by their spiritual leaders.

Today's march was an excellent way of keeping politicians in check.

Nodin

Methody wrote: »

The church know a hell of a lot better ,,,,,,.

This would be the church that gave us this kind of thing.....?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Ireland

Delirium

Methody wrote: »

The church know a hell of a lot better than the likes of Ivana Bacik who is an extremist liberal and was rejected by the most liberal constituency in the country! lol.

you mean the same church that recently blessed people involved in the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda? You might want to find some people that actual have some moral integrity before you start throwing stones.

Banbh

Who are these "Moral authorities" we should be referring to

John Waters, Breda O'Brien and the Brady Bunch (the paedo-protectors).

swampgas

Methody wrote: »

Democracy has many flaws. Are you suggesting democracy is a perfect system?

I would have no problem living in a catholic theocracy. Living in a democracy is fine for me too. However, politicians must be continually kept in check by their constituents and by their spiritual leaders.

Today's march was an excellent way of keeping politicians in check.

How very tolerant and inclusive of you. Please don't think that you have the right to turn Ireland into any such theocracy.

*edit* - Why on earth should "spiritual leaders" have any say whatsoever, and any sway over politicians? Do you even understand what democracy means?

lazygal

Banbh wrote: »

John Waters, Breda O'Brien and the Brady Bunch (the paedo-protectors).

Don't forget David Quinn, Ronan Mullen and Caroline Simons.

B0jangles

At this stage I think Methody is a rather good troll trying to make the pro-life, hard-core catholic brigade look bad insane.

DB21

Hey Methody, quick question; Exactly what gives you and your fellow anti-choicers the right to tell women what to do with their body?

Just going to put a couple of qualifiers on your answer: No religion, no appeals to emotion.

DB21

Methody wrote: »

The church know a hell of a lot better

BULLSH!T. The church protected pedophiles. They have NO moral standing in the eyes of the majority.

B0jangles

Red-C 2012 poll results in graph form:

PopePalpatine

B-b-but Post 19!

EDIT: I had no idea that Post 19 in this thread would also be incredibly stupid.

28064212

There's two big gaps in that poll: People in favour of allowing abortion where the foetus is not viable (e.g. anencephaly); And people in favour of allowing abortion where the foetus has mental or physical deformities