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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #4172
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Methody wrote: »
    Today's march was an excellent way of keeping politicians in check.
    Presumably the kind of check that arrives in from North America every few days. Those large screens don't rent themselves, you know!

    Anyhow, Methody, great to have you here with us this evening explaining the hardline catholic view. There's nothing that helps our side more.

    Pray, continue.


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    #4173
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    A Primal Nut wrote: »
    Regardless of your opinion on abortion, I don't know how people can't see the baby as a separate body to the mothers, especially in late term.

    Indeed, I don't agree with late term abortions unless necessary, as do a lot of pro-choice people.


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    #4174
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Methody wrote: »
    Right and wrong are absolute, not relative. What's right is right independent of the individual. The opening of abortion clinics in this country would be gravely immoral and therefore any attack on its operation would be fully justified.

    Eh, no they're not. Look at any country where unjust laws are passed. Do you think its right that gay people should face a death penalty in certain places?


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    #4175
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    koth wrote: »
    you mean the same church that recently blessed people involved in the "kill the gays" bill in Uganda? You might want to find some people that actual have some moral integrity before you start throwing stones.

    You do know that the relevant bishop in Uganda spoke out against that particular law? Don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-catholic rant.


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    #4176
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Methody wrote: »
    You do know that the relevant bishop in Uganda spoke out against that particular law? Don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-catholic rant.

    The pope blessed the originator of the legislation. Not a catholic, but I think a pope trumps a bishop in this particular game of cards.


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    #4177
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    Nodin wrote: »
    This would be the church that gave us this kind of thing.....?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sexual_abuse_scandal_in_Ireland

    Are you suggesting that secular Ireland is any better?

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-acquits-army-sergeant-of-child-pornography-charges-574107.html
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0115/porn.html
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/86096-army-officer-has-sex-his-daughter.html
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0620/breaking15.html
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/litany-of-care-failures-by-hse-in-child-deaths-3140794.html
    etc.


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    #4178
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    B0jangles wrote: »
    The pope blessed the originator of the legislation. Not a catholic, but I think a pope trumps a bishop in this particular game of cards.

    "blessed" lol. Probably got a blessing instead of Holy Communion as the originator wasn't eligible (not being in communion with the CC).

    But don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-catholic rant.


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    #4179
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,798 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Methody wrote: »
    You do know that the relevant bishop in Uganda spoke out against that particular law? Don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-catholic rant.

    as mentioned by bojangles, the pope blessed the people involved. Forgive me for not being a fan of a group that would align themselves with people planning to kill homosexuals for the crime of being gay.

    I'd be equally unimpressed with any other group who behaved in such an amoral way.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #4180
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Methody wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that secular Ireland is any better?

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-acquits-army-sergeant-of-child-pornography-charges-574107.html
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0115/porn.html
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/86096-army-officer-has-sex-his-daughter.html
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0620/breaking15.html
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/litany-of-care-failures-by-hse-in-child-deaths-3140794.html
    etc.

    haha, love this "well yeah the catholic church is a peado protecting ring of morally corrupt scumbags, but sure look, OTHER people do it too"

    fantastic logic. the Irish justice system is flawed, well done, stellar investigative journalism there.


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    #4181
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    krudler wrote: »
    Do you think its right that gay people should face a death penalty in certain places?

    Nope. I refer you to vatican.va where you can read many documents that detail how catholics should deal with persons of homosexual inclination.


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    #4182
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Methody wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that secular Ireland is any better?

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/judge-acquits-army-sergeant-of-child-pornography-charges-574107.html
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/0115/porn.html
    http://www.politics.ie/forum/current-affairs/86096-army-officer-has-sex-his-daughter.html
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0620/breaking15.html
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/litany-of-care-failures-by-hse-in-child-deaths-3140794.html
    etc.

    For one thing, theres no institutional cover-up there. Secondly, I've never claimed "moral authority" for anyone. You have though, for the church.


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    #4183
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Methody wrote: »

    Nope. I refer you to vatican.va where you can read many documents that detail how catholics should deal with persons of homosexual inclination.
    Maybe you could give us the condensed version, so I'll know how to deal with the couple next door to us. Lovely women.


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    #4184
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    krudler wrote: »
    haha, love this "well yeah the catholic church is a peado protecting ring of morally corrupt scumbags, but sure look, OTHER people do it too"

    fantastic logic. the Irish justice system is flawed, well done, stellar investigative journalism there.

    The catholic church is made up of people who succumb to human failings. Has done. Always will do. The point is though that the church continually strives for perfection in everything it does so as to minimise the level of destruction that comes as a result of human failings.

    Stellar analysis yourself there pal.


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    #4185
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    Nodin wrote: »
    For one thing, theres no institutional cover-up there. Secondly, I've never claimed "moral authority" for anyone. You have though, for the church.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priests-murder-is-states-biggest-ever-coverup-seanad-told-3295417.html


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    #4186
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Methody wrote: »
    "blessed" lol. Probably got a blessing instead of Holy Communion as the originator wasn't eligible (not being in communion with the CC).

    But don't let facts get in the way of a good anti-catholic rant.

    He blessed her in the same week when she announced bringing forward the death penalty in Uganda for gay people.

    He put his blessing, as head of the Catholic Church, on a person who was proudly bringing in laws that would have innocent people murdered by the state for the "crime" of being gay.


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    #4187
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Methody wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/priests-murder-is-states-biggest-ever-coverup-seanad-told-3295417.html

    A claim, with regards to one case. As oppossed to the Church, where it's proven they were covering up for decades. And again, no claims made to "moral authority".....


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    #4188
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Methody, what would you do if your unborn child, after being born and growing up, told you he was gay or she had an unplanned or difficult pregnancy and was getting an abortion?


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    #4189
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    B0jangles wrote: »
    He blessed her in the same week when she announced bringing forward the death penalty in Uganda for gay people.

    He put his blessing, as head of the Catholic Church, on a person who was proudly bringing in laws that would have innocent people murdered by the state for the "crime" of being gay.

    The Pope blesses 1,000s of people most days. Are you suggesting he do a background check on all these people before he does the magic movement and utters the magic words?

    Anyway, what do you care if the Pope "blesses" someone or not? I assume you believe all that stuff to be "bat **** crazy" or some other such offensive description.


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    #4190
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Methody wrote: »
    The catholic church is made up of people who succumb to human failings. Has done. Always will do. The point is though that the church continually strives for perfection in everything it does so as to minimise the level of destruction that comes as a result of human failings.

    Stellar analysis yourself there pal.

    Lies.

    The church had a very clear policy of covering up those "human failings".

    Policies which included bullying raped children into silence.


    Policies which included moving active child-rapists into new parishes to continue their predatory behaviour.

    The only thing the church strived for in this period was an avoidance of responsibility, of blame and of financial reparations to their victims.


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    #4191
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    lazygal wrote: »
    Methody, what would you do if your unborn child, after being born and growing up, told you he was gay or she had an unplanned or difficult pregnancy and was getting an abortion?

    Well for starters, they would not be getting any inheritance money. Also, if they were 21 or over and still living at home, they'd be sent to the nearest bedsit to sort their lives out for themselves seeing as they think they know better than the education and sacrafices I've made for them. A bit of tough love is in their best interests.


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    #4192
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Methody wrote: »
    The Pope blesses 1,000s of people most days. Are you suggesting he do a background check on all these people before he does the magic movement and utters the magic words?.

    Well, as they're supposed to be a "moral authority" you'd think they would...


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    #4193
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Lies.

    The church had a very clear policy of covering up those "human failings".

    Policies which included bullying raped children into silence.


    Policies which included moving active child-rapists into new parishes to continue their predatory behaviour.

    The only thing the church strived for in this period was an avoidance of responsibility, of blame and of financial reparations to their victims.

    You're not privy to the full facts of these cases. The only "facts" I pay heed to are those findings from a court of law or a tribunal. What you read in the paper of broken record aren't facts.

    I challenge you to discuss one particular case to back up your opinions.


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    #4194
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Methody wrote: »

    Well for starters, they would not be getting any inheritance money. Also, if they were 21 or over and still living at home, they'd be sent to the nearest bedsit to sort their lives out for themselves seeing as they think they know better than the education and sacrafices I've made for them. A bit of tough love is in their best interests.
    I'd love to see how your unborn children turn out! I hope they're fabulous! You know bedsits aren't legal anymore though pet?


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    #4195
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,798 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Methody wrote: »
    The Pope blesses 1,000s of people most days. Are you suggesting he do a background check on all these people before he does the magic movement and utters the magic words?

    Anyway, what do you care if the Pope "blesses" someone or not? I assume you believe all that stuff to be "bat **** crazy" or some other such offensive description.

    so now you're saying "what does it matter to non-Catholics if the pope implicitly condones murdering gays"? It wouldn't be too difficult to be aware of someone who has made international news for proposing the "kill the gays" bill. Reading a newspaper is all it would take.

    and if the pope is going to be so blasè about who he blesses maybe someone should reign him in lest he continue to embarrass himself by aligning himself with questionable people.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #4196
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    Nodin wrote: »
    Well, as they're supposed to be a "moral authority" you'd think they would...

    Since when do you have an opinion on who the Pope should and shouldn't bless?

    The Pope blesses 1,000s of sinners every day. What do you care? You don't believe in any of that "bat **** crazy" stuff anyway...


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    #4197
    Banbh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭Banbh


    'Experts who have studied for many years and have earned the respect of their peers' discussing 'persons of homosexual inclination'.


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    #4198
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Methody wrote: »
    The Pope blesses 1,000s of people most days. Are you suggesting he do a background check on all these people before he does the magic movement and utters the magic words?

    Anyway, what do you care if the Pope "blesses" someone or not? I assume you believe all that stuff to be "bat **** crazy" or some other such offensive description.

    So now you're claiming he didn't know who she was, despite there being many press photographers around to alert him to the fact that this wasn't some random tourist.

    I think Catholicism is rubbish, but a great many people on this planet do not. When the church's representative of god on earth endorses a person or viewpoint, it has real-world consequences for many many people. Those consequences involve being murdered for their sexual orientation.


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    #4199
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'd love to see how your unborn children turn out! I hope they're fabulous! You know bedsits aren't legal anymore though pet?

    It's the living (i.e. your daughter), not the unborn, who my thoughts are with at this time.


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    #4200
    Methody
    Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Methody


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Those consequences involve being murdered for their sexual orientation.

    Ah yes, it's all the evil Catholic Church's fault (as usual).

    What presence do YOU have in Uganda? None. Therefore, you really ought to shut up about things you know nothing about.


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    #4201
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Methody wrote: »
    The catholic church is made up of people who succumb to human failings. Has done. Always will do. The point is though that the church continually strives for perfection in everything it does so as to minimise the level of destruction that comes as a result of human failings.

    Actually, as far as I can see, the Catholic church doesn't strive for perfection at all. It strives to enforce an antiquated conservative morality dictated by an unelected elite. It seems to be obsessed with homosexuality and abortion. It has obscene wealth in direct contradiction of the apparent teachings of Christ. It is one of the most secretive organisations in the world. It has a bank which is implicated in money laundering.

    Pardon me if I prefer to have the Irish people, flawed as they may be, vote on what kind of ethics they want enshrined in Irish law, the law that they have to abide by, rather than the Catholic church with its its Italian head office and reactionary old German pontiff.


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