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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #4382
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »

    I'll leave that to the Psychiatric profession to decide...
    And if a psychiatrist finds a child who's been raped and is pregnant shouldn't be detained, do you think such a child should still be forced to remain pregnant?


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    #4383
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    koth wrote: »
    agreed. so committing someone in danger of self-harm is a red-herring as an abortion is not classified as self-harm.


    yes, you have already stated those abortions occur. and you've yet again deflected from the consequences of your idea of imprisoning those women for considering (not having mind you) an abortion.

    I refer to committal in situations where a Psychiatrist feels it necessary in the inrerests of preventing self harm...


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    #4384
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    I'll leave that to the Psychiatric profession to decide...

    No you don't want to do that.

    You want the government to fail to legislate according to a Referendum held 20 years ago. That referendum stated that the majority of the Irish electorate believe a woman or girl should be allowed to abort a pregnancy if that pregnancy may lead her to take her own life.

    You want to force the hand of the Psychiatric profession and limit what they can legally recommend as a suitable course of action.


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    #4385
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    lazygal wrote: »
    And if a psychiatrist finds a child who's been raped and is pregnant shouldn't be detained, do you think such a child should still be forced to remain pregnant?


    I beleive she should receive every care, Psychiatrically, to ensure both mother and baby come through the pregnancy safe and sound...


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    #4386
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    No you don't want to do that.

    I actually do...:)


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    #4387
    Morag
    Registered Users Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    I beleive she should receive every care, Psychiatrically, to ensure both mother and baby come through the pregnancy safe and sound...

    And if that is not possible?


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    #4388
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »


    I beleive she should receive every care, Psychiatrically, to ensure both mother and baby come through the pregnancy safe and sound...
    And what if the child doesn't want to birth her rapist's baby? Should she just be councelled through it? Do you have any awareness of the dangers of pregnancy and birth for a child? Do you only care about the unborn?


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    #4389
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    I beleive she should receive every care, Psychiatrically, to ensure both mother and baby come through the pregnancy safe and sound...

    So she should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term and endure labour against her will using all methods available to the Psychiatric profession?


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    #4390
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    I actually do...:)

    Even if a Psychiatrist believes abortion is the best option?


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    #4391
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    kylith wrote: »

    Can you please answer a question for me? I have heard that in Irelandthe treatment for ectopic pregnancy is to remove the entire fallopian tube, whereas in other countries an incision is made into the tube and just the foetus removed, with removal of the entire tube only if that is impossible.

    Is that true, and do you know what, if any, implications that could have for a woman's future fertility?

    Firstly I'm not a practicing obstetrician. An ectopic pregnancy occurring in a fallopian tube can be treated by removing the part of the tube with the pregnancy in it. This will automatically reduce fertility, as no egg from that side can progress to pregnancy. This is the way the Catholic church want it done, as it falls under their 'double effect' nonsense, where they kid themselves that the death of the embryo was 'unintentional'. The other way to treat an ectopic is to open the tube, remove the pregnancy, and repair the tube. This is the best option for maintaining fertility, as it is still possible for an egg to travel through this tube and be fertilised. I'm not sure what common practice in Ireland is, but I hope it's the second option, where that is possible.


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    #4392
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Sadly the baby will die on termniation, the intention being to save the mother's life...

    A woman is undergoing a miscarriage. There is no way to save the baby. She is in severe pain and distress. Do you support the notion of allowing an abortion in those cases?


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    #4393
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    I think we should leave Silvio to his/her own ramblings as he/she is hardly engaging in debate at all, so in my option is a waste of digital print.


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    #4394
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Flier wrote: »
    Firstly I'm not a practicing obstetrician. An ectopic pregnancy occurring in a fallopian tube can be treated by removing the part of the tube with the pregnancy in it. This will automatically reduce fertility, as no egg from that side can progress to pregnancy. This is the way the Catholic church want it done, as it falls under their 'double effect' nonsense, where they kid themselves that the death of the embryo was 'unintentional'. The other way to treat an ectopic is to open the tube, remove the pregnancy, and repair the tube. This is the best option for maintaining fertility, as it is still possible for an egg to travel through this tube and be fertilised. I'm not sure what common practice in Ireland is, but I hope it's the second option, where that is possible.

    Thank you for answering.


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    #4395
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    I beleive she should receive every care, Psychiatrically, to ensure both mother and baby come through the pregnancy safe and sound...

    Translation: the pregnant woman is to be "persuaded" by all means possible that she doesn't want an abortion. If she puts up a fight and pretends to have an opinion of her own, commit her, and lock her up until the baby is born.

    Dress this all up as "providing every care", and other euphemisms. Oh, and avoid using laundries again in case people realise what we're up to.


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    #4396
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Committal isn't always exercised AFAIK but of couse it should be available if the Psychiatrist deems it to be necessary...

    Hang on, so you're actually saying that women who are sexually assaulted and as a result become suicidal should be commited to a psychiatric ward? There are your options ladies, either have your rapist's baby, or into a mental ward for you. You say an innocent unborn child shouldn't be punished, yet an innocent woman should? Who the fcuk are you to tell anyone they have to go through having an unwanted child?

    jesus fcuking wept.


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    #4397
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    I believe that it's inhuman to force women to go to full term and beyond with foetus's that are known to be unviable.

    It is best for these foetus' if they were aborted before they could feel pain.

    Parents who intentionally do not abort these foetus' are selfish and inhuman!!!


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    #4398
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Morag wrote: »
    And if that is not possible?

    such as..?


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    #4399
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    lazygal wrote: »
    And what if the child doesn't want to birth her rapist's baby? Should she just be councelled through it? Do you have any awareness of the dangers of pregnancy and birth for a child? Do you only care about the unborn?

    Are you actually serious asking such a question..?

    Every medical care should be provided to ensure both mother and baby come through the pregnancy, safe and sound.

    Still not one mention from anyone here about the unborn babies. Not one.

    Why can't you love them both..?


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    #4400
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Nodin wrote: »
    A woman is undergoing a miscarriage. There is no way to save the baby. She is in severe pain and distress. Do you support the notion of allowing an abortion in those cases?

    If the life of the mother is deemed to be in danger then yes, of course a termination of said pregnancy is justified...


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    #4401
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Flier wrote: »
    I think we should leave Silvio to his/her own ramblings as he/she is hardly engaging in debate at all, so in my option is a waste of digital print.

    I've been more than happy to explain my position and that of the Unite For Life campaign...:)


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    #4402
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    If the life of the mother is deemed to be in danger then yes, of course a termination of said pregnancy is justified...


    Where the life to the mother is not in danger, but her health is threatened....


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    #4403
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    swampgas wrote: »
    Translation: the pregnant woman is to be "persuaded" by all means possible that she doesn't want an abortion. If she puts up a fight and pretends to have an opinion of her own, commit her, and lock her up until the baby is born.

    Dress this all up as "providing every care", and other euphemisms. Oh, and avoid using laundries again in case people realise what we're up to.

    ...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #4404
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    krudler wrote: »
    Hang on, so you're actually saying that women who are sexually assaulted and as a result become suicidal should be commited to a psychiatric ward? There are your options ladies, either have your rapist's baby, or into a mental ward for you. You say an innocent unborn child shouldn't be punished, yet an innocent woman should? Who the fcuk are you to tell anyone they have to go through having an unwanted child?

    jesus fcuking wept.


    Committal should be one of the treatment options available depending on how the pregnant victim is presenting, psychiatrically...


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    #4405
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Nodin wrote: »
    Where the life to the mother is not in danger, but her health is threatened....


    Then a termination is not justified, no...


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    #4406
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    _rebelkid wrote: »
    Just a point of interest,

    The twitter hashtag "#Vigil4Life" has now been taken over by the *pronbots*. It's hilarious :)

    Went to look that up, found this: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1504244&l=6545c131cc&id=126266120752243

    Nutters, honest to goodness nutters. And these are the people who want psychiatric committal for unwillingly pregnant women.
    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Why can't you love them both..?

    Why can't you love either of them? I refer you to this:

    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    I do hope no permanent scars remain for you. :rolleyes:

    I do hope you followed the...:



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEssgMQ1O_k

    ...which shows how little you actually care for the born.


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    #4407
    iguana
    Registered Users Posts: 12,916 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    Parents who intentionally do not abort these foetus' are selfish and inhuman!!!

    That's unfair. No one can say for sure what they would do if given the news that their pregnancy is unviable. The odds are that they are already deeply in love with what the believed would be their child and how they choose to deal with such a hellish situation is their choice with no wrong path. It's the people who deny women/couples that choice who are selfish and inhuman.


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    #4408
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    I believe that it's inhuman to force women to go to full term and beyond with foetus's that are known to be unviable.

    It is best for these foetus' if they were aborted before they could feel pain.

    Parents who intentionally do not abort these foetus' are selfish and inhuman!!!

    I have to agree with you to an extent here. I think it is often better for these foetuses (foetii?) to be aborted, especially if their condition is/will be painful. There certainly should be a choice!
    I also have a huge problem with cases where a pregnant women needs treatment that can severly harm or kill the foetus, and the prolife view is that if the foetus dies, it's ok because it's unintentional. So they would prefer a woman who, for example has a malignancy and needs chemotherapy, to remain pregnant, have the treatment, and for the foetus to go through the pain and suffering of that treatment only to eventually die, or maybe to survive and be born with the horrific results of chemotherapy on their developing bodies. Is that not inhumane? Is it not more humane to abort the foetus at an early stage of the pregnancy and allow the woman to have her treatment?


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    #4409
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Flier wrote: »
    I agree with you here. I also have a huge problem with cases where a pregnant women needs treatment that can severly harm or kill the foetus, and the prolife view is that if the foetus dies, it's ok because it's unintentional. So they would prefer a woman who, for example has a malignancy and needs chemotherapy, to remain pregnant, have the treatment, and for the foetus to go through the pain and suffering of that treatment only to eventually die, or maybe to survive and be born with the horrific results of chemotherapy on their developing bodies. Is that not inhumane? Is it not more humane to abort the foetus at an early stage of the pregnancy and allow the woman to have her treatment?

    'humane' is not a term I have seen bandied about by probirthers - it's life at all costs with them but no interest in the quality of that life.


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    #4410
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Lingua Franca wrote: »



    Why can't you love either of them? I refer you to this:




    ...which shows how little you actually care for the born.

    Don't mock the Safe Cross Code or I'll set Judge on you...:D


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    #4411
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    iguana wrote: »

    That's unfair. No one can say for sure what they would do if given the news that their pregnancy is unviable. The odds are that they are already deeply in love with what the believed would be their child and how they choose to deal with such a hellish situation is their choice with no wrong path. It's the people who deny women/couples that choice who are selfish and inhuman.

    If the life of the foetus/child is unviable then it's the duty of the pregnant woman to abort as early as possible in order to minimise/eliminate pain to the foetus.


This discussion has been closed.
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