Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

jank

Morag wrote: »

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.CrowdSize
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/crowdsize/id378126107?mt=8
http://www.downloadcollection.com/crowdsize.htm

Was the program/app used, sure try it yourself and see the data it kicks out.
.

Yeap, play around with numbers until I get the figure I am comfortable with, no thanks.

What figures did the Gardai give. I am curious actually.

Morag wrote: »

No I am not an anarchists but I have meet a few nice ones who are abortion rights activists.

Of course, judge everyone on their personal merits but when they are proposing radical crap like

We believe in democratising the workplace and in workers taking control of all industry. We believe that this is the only real alternative to capitalism with its on going reliance on hierarchy and oppression and its depletion of the world’s resources.

And

Like most socialists we share a fundamental belief that capitalism is the problem. We believe that as a system it must be ended, that the wealth of society should be commonly owned and that its resources should be used to serve the needs of humanity as a whole and not those of a small greedy minority. But, just as importantly, we see this struggle against capitalism as also being a struggle for freedom. We believe that socialism and freedom must go together, that we cannot have one without the other.

That last bit is an oxymoran. One cannot have a free society that doesn't embrace the free market.

These guys dont even live in the last centuary never mind the present one. They have a lot in common with the RCC in that respect.

Sarky

Jank, I'm on my phone and about to head to bed so can you just imagine a humorously-captioned picture of Grumpy Cat for me? Kthx

jank

robindch wrote: »

Look jank, I've mentioned it already today, but for heaven's sake, will you try to say something that somebody might actually want to read?

A+A isn't After Hours and while I've said that tedium and silliness isn't against the forum charter, refusing to engage in a discussion is and you'll be carded, banned etc if you can't up your game.

Em, I am engaging in discussion.

A dubious source was used to back an argument. All I am doing is question the validity and sincerious of that source.

Question: Would you have taken the pro-life figures as face value, no. So why would people take sources from the pro-choice side at the same face value. Because it’s emotionally convenient?

I have asked before what the figures are from the Gardai. In other words trying to interject data from an independent group with no axe to grind on both sidea. Surely you want this debate to be held to such a standard rather than as you said "After Hours" type of silliness.

iguana

jank wrote: »

Question: Would you have taken the pro-life figures as face value, no. So why would people take sources from the pro-choice side at the same face value. Because it’s emotionally convenient?

No because the pro-life people have said we had X amount, aren't we great. And the pro-choice people are saying that number is impossible based on a number of reasoned arguments. I don't know if you are familiar with Merrion Square South Jank but if you are you will know that there is absolutely no way that a big soundstage and 25-30,000 people fit on that street. It's just not physically possible.

ShooterSF

jank wrote: »

Em, I am engaging in discussion.

A dubious source was used to back an argument. All I am doing is question the validity and sincerious of that source.

Question: Would you have taken the pro-life figures as face value, no. So why would people take sources from the pro-choice side at the same face value. Because it’s emotionally convenient?

I have asked before what the figures are from the Gardai. In other words trying to interject data from an independent group with no axe to grind on both sidea. Surely you want this debate to be held to such a standard rather than as you said "After Hours" type of silliness.

Are you suggesting google or apple are dubious sources or are you suggesting that the website that ran the numbers fudged them through photoshop or something? If you think they are a dubious element at least put in the effort to prove it by checking their numbers. Otherwise your comment is moot.

_rebelkid

Jank, the site may well be dubious, but the maths is correct.

jank

iguana wrote: »

No because the pro-life people have said we had X amount, aren't we great. And the pro-choice people are saying that number is impossible based on a number of reasoned arguments. I don't know if you are familiar with Merrion Square South Jank but if you are you will know that there is absolutely no way that a big soundstage and 25-30,000 people fit on that street. It's just not physically possible.

Reasoned arguments? 3 variables that are not verifable independantly at all. That is not reasoned at all.

Sarky

"reality has a well-known liberal bias"
-Stephen Colbert

Can't sleep right now, probably a bit too much coffee earlier today...

jank

ShooterSF wrote: »

Are you suggesting google or apple are dubious sources or are you suggesting that the website that ran the numbers fudged them through photoshop or something? If you think they are a dubious element at least put in the effort to prove it by checking their numbers. Otherwise your comment is moot.

Google and apple are mapping devices and tools. One must still input the data to get figures. That data has not been verified.

jank

Just to put this to bed.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/over-25000-attend-pro-life-rally-in-dublin-581802.html?m=false

Over 25,000 people attended a rally organised by Pro-Life campaigners in central Dublin today, according to official Garda estimates.
The 'Unite for Life' vigil took place on Merrion square with speakers including Tyrone football manager Mickey Harte.

jank

_rebelkid wrote: »

Jank, the site may well be dubious, but the maths is correct.

Maths are correct of course until they are wrong.

The Mad Hatter

Because we all know that estimates are a better way of figuring out numbers than maths.

ShooterSF

I forgot that RTDH had informed us of the recent upgrade in garda nano-tech internal inserts that allow them to calculate a crowd to a 99% accuracy (as long as it's not midgets).

jank

The Gardai have been doing this for all kinds of demonstations and for donkeys years. I would take their word on it rather than using some app.

If you have an issue maybe write a letter to the Gardai and tell them the way they have been estimating crowds is now redunant now that there is an app out on itunes. I am sure they will be delighted.

ShooterSF

jank wrote: »

The Gardai have been doing this for all kinds of demonstations and for donkeys years. I would take their word on it rather than using some app.

If you have an issue maybe write a letter to the Gardai and tell them the way they have been estimating crowds is now redunant now that there is an app out on itunes. I am sure they will be delighted.

Why would they be delighted? Are you calling the gardai lazy? Those people put their life on the line for this country and you have the nerve to suggest they would rather just sit eating doughnuts and drinking coffee. How dare you sir.


(welcome to how a discussion with you feels like to me at times)

Morag

Really?

cos the garda statements for the march for choice were issued and were wrong and
they had to issue statements correcting the first one.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0929/breaking25.html

The second statement quadrupled the number first given and even then crowd analyses
shows that it was much bigger.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/29/how-many-were-at-the-march-for-choice/

jank

They updated and clarifed their position within hours. So what are you getting at, there is a Garda conspiracy? ROFL

The Black Oil

I'm no good at judging the size of crowds, but I'd say there was about 17 million of them out there.

Lingua Franca

jank wrote: »

They updated and clarifed their position within hours. So what are you getting at, there is a Garda conspiracy? ROFL

No, it's perfectly plain that they're showing you that this

jank wrote: »

The Gardai have been doing this for all kinds of demonstations and for donkeys years. I would take their word on it rather than using some app.

If you have an issue maybe write a letter to the Gardai and tell them the way they have been estimating crowds is now redunant now that there is an app out on itunes. I am sure they will be delighted.

...was silly, given that the Gardai have recent form with incorrectly estimating crowds.

Silvio.Dante

B0jangles wrote: »

Shush. Silvio is away to his bed.

How selfish are you to expect him to respond after bedtime, about such serious issues when he has repeatedly made his views known via a series of jokes, puns and flippant remarks. Silvio is as serious about these issues as um... Jimmy Savile is about ancient house restoration.

I.E. not even a little bit.

Linking me to Jimmy Saville?
The Liberalista slur machine is in overdrive now.

but you go ahead with your campaign of hate while continue to advocate for mothers and their babies...:)

Silvio.Dante

jank wrote: »

Im an not sure a website for anarchists (cough communists) is one that should be taken seriously. Why do looney lefty groups attach themselves to this debate? Don't they have a Dame St. protest to oganise or something?

Ah don't be too hasty. They did manage 172 protestors behind the stage...:D

Silvio.Dante

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Jank's come in for the nightshift now Silvio's gone to bed!

A clean handover too unlike GB relay teams...;)

Lingua Franca

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Linking mev to Jimmy Saville?
The Liberalista slur machine is in overdrive now.

but you go ahead with your campaign of hate while continue to advocate for mothers and their babies...:)

Ahahahhahahaha, is that what you actually think you're doing? :pac: So far on this forum you've proved that you don't really give a crap about mothers and their babies, and you've reinforced every single negative stereotype about Youth Defence. Us mothers and our babies don't need your particular brand of advocacy nor your peculiar interest in our uteruses, thank you very much.

aloyisious

With regard to the effect that the issue of how the Govt has to deal with the Supreme Court ruling (and the EU Court ruling) by introducing legislation, I'm wondering how this will affect the unity of Fine Gael. Enda's reference to the letters he's received and being likened to King Herod refer's. Now for the sensitive part, I've been wondering how long it would take for the human factor to kick-in and the nasty attacks begin. If Enda got a letter referring to Herod, I wondered if the letter was inclusive to him, or whether it included all the F/G Ministers, incl Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice.

In this regard when there was mention earlier to the composition of religious at the Oireachtas hearings, and the non-presence of at least one of the mainstream religions, I was surprised at this and then found that Alan's faith had been represented.

Now I hear that Lucinda Creighton is (naturally) going to withhold making any personal decision as to her position on the legislation until she sees the wording. She'll be interviewed on RTE radio news shortly about this.

Silvio.Dante

ShooterSF wrote: »

Are you suggesting google or apple are dubious sources or are you suggesting that the website that ran the numbers fudged them through photoshop or something? If you think they are a dubious element at least put in the effort to prove it by checking their numbers. Otherwise your comment is moot.

Wasn't it Apple who put Dublin Zoo in Ballsbridge..?

Silvio.Dante

jank wrote: »

Just to put this to bed.

That'll do for me...:)

Silvio.Dante

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Ahahahhahahaha, is that what you actually think you're doing? :pac: So far on this forum you've proved that you don't really give a crap about mothers and their babies, and you've reinforced every single negative stereotype about Youth Defence. Us mothers and our babies don't need your particular brand of advocacy nor your peculiar interest in our uteruses, thank you very much.

YD are a noble and well run organisation. To see YD, The Pro Life Campaign, Life International and Precious Life united on the one stage on Friday night was great.

We're a formidable force, one to be reckoned with. Advocating for mothers and their babies. We love them both. Why can't you..?

Silvio.Dante

aloyisious wrote: »

With regard to the effect that the issue of how the Govt has to deal with the Supreme Court ruling (and the EU Court ruling) by introducing legislation, I'm wondering how this will affect the unity of Fine Gael. Enda's reference to the letters he's received and being likened to King Herod refer's. Now for the sensitive part, I've been wondering how long it would take for the human factor to kick-in and the nasty attacks begin. If Enda got a letter referring to Herod, I wondered if the letter was inclusive to him, or whether it included all the F/G Ministers, incl Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice.

In this regard when there was mention earlier to the composition of religious at the Oireachtas hearings, and the non-presence of at least one of the mainstream religions, I was surprised at this and then found that Alan's faith had been represented.

Now I hear that Lucinda Creighton is (naturally) going to withhold making any personal decision as to her position on the legislation until she sees the wording. She'll be interviewed on RTE radio news shortly about this.

Poor Enda. Wait until he's compared to Jimmy Saville...;)

The camapign is clearly ramping up on our side of the divide and will only intensify over the coming weeks.

Interesting times ahead...

Delirium

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

YD are a noble and well run organisation. To see YD, The Pro Life Campaign, Life International and Precious Life united on the one stage on Friday night was great.

We're a formidable force, one to be reckoned with. Advocating for mothers and their babies. We love them both. Why can't you..?

they are not. See examples below of their "noble" behaviour.

• In 1992 on Thomas Street and in 1994 at the Dáil, members of Youth Defence attacked and assaulted pro-choice campaigners, causing many injuries.
• In 1998 an elderly member of staff of the Marie Stopes clinic on Blessington Street was physically attacked.
• In 1999 members of staff of the Irish Family Planning Association were assaulted, the association’s clinic on Cathal Brugha Street was occupied by hundreds of Youth Defence supporters, and the IFPA’s director, Tony O’Brien, was continually harrassed.
• Also in 1999, The Ulster Pregnancy Advisory Service in Belfast was forced to close following continuous pickets and disruption by anti-choicers (Precious Life, linked to Youth Defence), and following an arson attack on their premises.

Source

and that took all of 10 seconds to find. No doubt there are more examples out there.

Banbh

The Catholic Church with funding from the US crazies, and with buses from all over the country and free press advertising could only bring 25,000 people to Dublin. It's no wonder that the Taoiseach dismissed them and has again asserted that the Government is going ahead to legislate in keeping with the court's decision.

The hold of the Catholic Church over society has truly been broken. No amount of aggressive lay groups, columnists or commentators can reverse that now.

As a child of the '50s when a hint from a bishop was law and when the church could bring hundreds of thousands of rosary-swinging zealots on to the streets I am delighted that I have lived to see the power of that evil cult finally broken.