Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

Then why are you spending it on protesting the X case? You lost that battle over 20 years ago. The right to an abortion if it's making the pregnant woman suicidal is a constitutional right. At least two referenda were held since then that all agreed with this.

You lost. Game over. It's being legislated for. The government don't have any choice in the matter. Neither do you. Deal with it.

This one is far from over...:)

Sarky

Supporting the Irish constitution is part of the Liberal Agenda now?

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

Supporting the Irish constitution is part of the Liberal Agenda now?

Introducing abortion on demand is top of the list and if they can get is started via X then so be it. The Daly/Bacik axis are all over this one for good reason you know...

The Black Oil

Your false sincerity has been transparent for several pages now.

RDM_83 again

robindch wrote: »

It's sad, if unsurprising, to hear that anti-choicers -- I've heard others make the same point -- are unconcerned about political corruption since it suggests there's a reason for it.

You'd think as a mod you'd have better debating abilities than simply trying insult other posters or as a "pro abortionist" :rolleyes: do you think its all fair game?

Ps Chuck Feeney, who though he's done a lot for this country isn't an Irish citizen, or are contributions by him ok because you agree with the organizations that have received funding from him?

Bannasidhe

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Has anyone threatened to prevent you fram access to your Meds..?

Yes Silvio - You and your buddies have. You have stated that the 'life' of a fetus is more important than the health of the mother.

The crux is all that guff you spout about 'threat to the life of the mother' - there is no guarantee I would actually die see (although the risk would be greatly increased) - the guarantee is that I would be 95% likely to enter a coma as my glucose levels would not be properly controlled which would 100% guarantee me permanent brain damage.

But that is a threat to my health - not my life. I could 'live' for another 40 years brain damaged and incapable of independent living.

You have decided that is a risk you are prepared to take with my life and are lobbying the government to achieve that goal.

lazygal

Can we not stop feeding the trolls? Anyone else getting a bit tired of this?

Bannasidhe

lazygal wrote: »

Can we not stop feeding the trolls? Anyone else getting a bit tired of this?

But the troll is making our case for us by showing just how little the pro-birthers care about mobile incubators pregnant women.

Silvio.Dante

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes Silvio - You and your buddies have. You have stated that the 'life' of a fetus is more important than the health of the mother.

The crux is all that guff you spout about 'threat to the life of the mother' - there is no guarantee I would actually die see (although the risk would be greatly increased) - the guarantee is that I would be 95% likely to enter a coma as my glucose levels would not be properly controlled which would 100% guarantee me permanent brain damage.

But that is a threat to my health - not my life. I could 'live' for another 40 years brain damaged and incapable of independent living.

You have decided that is a risk you are prepared to take with my life and are lobbying the government to achieve that goal.

So no one have withdrawn your Meds and no one has threatened you with same...?

kylith

Sarky wrote: »

Supporting the Irish constitution is part of the Liberal Agenda now?

As is the democratic will of the Irish people, apparently.

The Mad Hatter

kylith wrote: »

As is the democratic will of the Irish people, apparently.

Yeah, because we're such a famously liberal country.

Sarky

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

So no one have withdrawn your Meds and no one has threatened you with same...?

You are threatening to do it. You are campaigning to take her meds away. Stop trying to play clever, you're really, really bad at it.

robindch

RDM_83 again wrote: »

You'd think as a mod you'd have better debating abilities than simply trying insult other posters or as a "pro abortionist" :rolleyes: do you think its all fair game?

I'm not trying to insult anybody.

I'm simply asking why you don't seem to be concerned about the possibility of political corruption deriving from what appear to be very large amounts of unaudited cash swilling around.

Most organizations with an honorable corporate governance policy would be happy to open their books. But, as before, that's not happening here. Instead, you don't seem concerned about it, or even very aware of it, and I'm inevitably wondering if there's a reason you're avoiding the topic.

kylith

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

So no one have withdrawn your Meds and no one has threatened you with same...?

The people you support would see her either stop her medication and become brain damaged, or take her medication and deform the child. Which would you choose?

Silvio.Dante

kylith wrote: »

The people you support would see her either stop her medication and become brain damaged, or take her medication and deform the child. Which would you choose?

Keeping mother and baby as safe as is medically possible, obviously...

Sarky

That's not one of the options, Silvio. Choose.

VinLieger

Sarky wrote: »

That's not one of the options, Silvio. Choose.

Exactly at this stage you look like your hiding behind your religious/moral beliefs to simply avoid making a difficult decision

Morag

An interesting piece on "Abortion and how Ireland forgot it was a democracy "

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

That's not one of the options, Silvio. Choose.

It should always be THE option in Irish hospitals...

Sarky

Still not one of the options.

Choose.

Morag

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

It should always be THE option in Irish hospitals...

It is not and it has not been from the death of Sheila Hodgers in 1983.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Hodgers

Sheila Hodgers was an Irish housewife and mother of two children from Drogheda, County Louth, who died of multiple cancers in 1983. Because she was pregnant, treatment was withheld to protect her foetus due to the Catholic ethos of the hospital.

In August 1981, Hodgers detected a breast lump and was referred to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital where it was removed. Later her husband Brendan was told by the surgeon that a second tumour had been found which would be fatal if a mastectomy wasn't performed. Even with the operation, there was a strong chance of secondary tumours appearing. The operation was carried out and considered a success.

Hodgers was prescribed a course of anti-cancer drugs and advised not to use the contraceptive pill as this could cause her cancer to return. According to journalist Padraig Yeates, Brendan Hodgers claimed a consultant told him that "as Sheila had a clean bill of health, (pregnancy) shouldn't be a problem". The consultant himself denies this. According to Yeates, every medical expert he spoke to said that following a mastectomy, it was standard advice to tell a woman to wait at least two years before becoming pregnant.

One year later, Sheila Hodgers became pregnant. Since the anti-cancer drugs she was taking could harm the foetus, she was stopped from taking them. Hodgers began experiencing severe back pains and could hardly stand. Her husband urged the hospital to induce her pregnancy or perform a Caesarian but they refused as it would damage the foetus. They also refused painkillers. The hospital had to abide by "The Bishop's Contract", a code of ethics drawn up with the Catholic Church.

According to Brendan Hodgers: "I went to see Sheila one night and she was in absolute agony. She was literally screaming at this stage. I could hear her from the front door of the hospital and she was in a ward on the fourth floor. I saw the sister and she produced a doctor who said nothing that made any sense."

Sheila Hodgers was subsequently moved to the maternity unit and given painkillers. According to Brendan, he at this point asked if an abortion could be performed but was given no answer. The couple again asked if an induction or Caesarian could be performed, and were again told the baby would not survive.

On 17 March 1983, Hodgers gave birth in extreme agony to a baby girl who immediately died. Hodgers died two days later from cancer in her neck, spine, legs, liver and ribs.

kylith

Oh that poor, poor woman. To think that something similar could happen in this day and age is unconscionable.

VinLieger

That is horrific and shows everything that is wrong with the catholic church and religious bodies imposing their ideals onto the medical services. One is science the other is faith the 2 should never intermingle

Sarky

And that only happened 30 years ago. I am disgusted.

Bannasidhe

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

So no one have withdrawn your Meds and no one has threatened you with same...?

Of course not. I'm not pregnant.

If I were pregnant then all bets are off.

Thanks Silvio.

If I get raped and become pregnant it's either brain damage or a dead fetus ...and we mustn't harm the fetus now must we?

Will you look after me when if I end up brain damaged?

Will YD donate a few dollars to help with my long-term care?

After all - you do care about mothers don't you?

Silvio.Dante

kylith wrote: »

Oh that poor, poor woman. To think that something similar could happen in this day and age is unconscionable.

It ddin't. It happened 30 years ago...

Silvio.Dante

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Of course not. I'm not pregnant.

If I were pregnant then all bets are off.

Thanks Silvio.

If I get raped and become pregnant it's either brain damage or a dead fetus ...and we mustn't harm the fetus now must we?

Will you look after me when if I end up brain damaged?

Will YD donate a few dollars to help with my long-term care?

After all - you do care about mothers don't you?

Deliberately killing your innocent unborn baby is never an option...

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

Still not one of the options.

Choose.

Keeping mother and baby as safe as is medically possible...

Bannasidhe

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

It ddin't. It happened 30 years ago...

And X happened 20 years ago - what is your point?

That is cannot happen again?

But that is exactly what you are lobbying for....

Morag

Sarky wrote: »

And that only happened 30 years ago. I am disgusted.

Sheila Hodgers died in March 1983, the Pro Life Amendment also known as the 8th Amendment was put to referendum in Sept 1983 and was signed into law October 1983.

All of the lies about cherishing women and giving them the health care they need is lies, for the last 30 years women have been traveling to the UK as drs can not do what is needed.

Women like Michele Harte.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Terminally-ill-woman-refused-abortion-in-Cork-hospital--112236794.html

A woman who was terminally ill with cancer was refused an abortion at Cork University hospital and had to travel to Britain to have the procedure.

Michelle Harte (39) from Wexford told The Irish Times that doctors at Cork University Hospital advised her for medical reasons to terminate her pregnancy but then refused to carry out the procedure.

A previous Irish court judgement had allowed such a procedure where the mother’s life was in danger. However the ethics committee refused to allow an abortion because they claimed no “immediate threat”.

“I couldn’t believe the decision [to refuse an abortion in Ireland] when it came,” she said.

“Apparently, my life wasn’t at immediate risk. It just seemed absolutely ridiculous.”

She travelled to Britain for the abortion during the summer.

“She was very unwell,” said her partner, Neil Doolan (28) from Wexford. “She was very stressed out, physically very weak, nauseous and vomiting.”

Shortly after she came back her condition worsened. “The delay in having an abortion could well have made my condition worse. It certainly didn’t help,” she said.

“I would hate to see others going through this. It’s so tough when you’re not well to feel like you’re being judged for something which should be a simple procedure.”

Ms Harte in the end lost her battle with cancer and but sued the state for breaching her human rights and they paid out.

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/news/michelles-mum-backs-savita-family-all-the-way-3313922.html

It also emerged last week that the State paid substantial compensation to Michelle Harte in July 2011. Her solicitor Michael Boylan of Augustus Cullen Law told a national newspaper that her case was settled in just three months.

Mother-of-one Michelle sued for violation of her human rights, after a hospital ethics forum decided against authorising an abortion, on the basis that her life was not under 'immediate threat'.

Michelle, who had fought cancer since 2001, became unintentionally pregnant in 2010, and was advised by doctors in Cork University Hospital to terminate the pregnancy, because of the risks to her health. She had to arrange a passport and travel to London. She was so ill, she had to be helped onto the plane, due to her deteriorating condition, and she was described as 'very weak, nauseous, and vomiting.'

Michelle bravely spoke out later in the year, saying she wanted to ensure no other woman would have to experience what she went through.

She was unable to receive cancer treatment during her pregnancy and shortly after her return from London, scans showed the cancer spread to her brain.

Mr. Boylan sued the State on Michelle's behalf for infringing her rights under the ABC Case where the European Court of Human Rights ruled that Ireland breached the human rights of a woman with cancer who had to travel abroad to get an abortion.

Ms. Harte's case was settled in July 2011, months before she died, and Mr. Boylan described the settlement as 'substantial.'

So this is not some online debate with hypothetical women, this is real and is killing Irish women while governments have ignored the high court, the supreme court and 2 referendum.