Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Sarky

But you're not willing to help, say, the UK fight to protect the right of the unborn? Why not pass on the American Life dollars to where they can actually make a difference? You're a hypocrite, and what's worse, you're a lazy hypocrite. Passing on the problem as as bad as causing the abortions yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Silvio.Dante

_rebelkid wrote: »

This is the LAST TIME Silvio;

And after all that if our TDs reject the loming legislation, the status quo will be maintained...

Sarky

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

And after all that if our TDs reject the loming legislation, the status quo will be maintained...

No. No it will not. You are either incredibly slow to pick up on any new idea, or you're willfully ignorant. Which is it?

B0jangles

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I hope they're successful...

Going to quote myself in the lame belief that maybe you are not a troll and are open to argument that doesn't align itself to the view you conspicuously already hold:

B0jangles wrote: »

And an endless source of dreadful, weak, terrible jokes on the topic.

I've said it before and I say it now; disagree with my pro-choice views, that's fine, as long as you treat it as a serious topic for discussion. I'll continue to disagree but will respect the strength of belief behind the viewpoint.

Call youself "pro-choice" or "pro-life" and treat the topic with flippancy; with feeble "jokiness" you are a disgrace to your cause on either side of the argument.

No matter what you believe; it's a serious issue which deserves to be treated with respect.

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

But you're not willing to help, say, the UK fight to protect the right of the unborn? Why not pass on the American Life dollars to where they can actually make a difference? You're a hypocrite, and what's worse, you're a lazy hypocrite. Passing on the problem as as bad as causing the abortions yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm playing a very small part on trying to stop X becoming a legislated reality...:)

Silvio.Dante

B0jangles wrote: »

Going to quote myself in the lame belief that maybe you are not a troll and are open to argument that doesn't align itself to the view you conspicuouosly already hold:

Your point is taken and I stand over my previous comment...

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

No. No it will not. You are either incredibly slow to pick up on any new idea, or you're willfully ignorant. Which is it?

Yes it will...

Sarky

Are you so young you don't remember the repeated government collapses of yesteryear? Rainbow Coalition? No? They not even teach it in schools these days?

swampgas

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Every help is welcomed from our friends in America in the struggle against the possible legislation for X...

If you really object to legislation for X, then start a campaign asking for another referendum to be put to the people. That's the only legitimate way that legislation for X can be avoided.

Multiple governments have sat on their hands on this issue, and shamefully so. They know it, the people know it, they simply cannot ignore their disgraceful dereliction of duty any longer. Frankly, I will be amazed, utterly amazed, if the government avoid legislating, and in the highly unlikely event that they don't it will be a constitutional crisis of grave proportions. It simply can't be avoided - the wheels are in motion.

You seem rather out of touch with the political realities involved here.

Silvio.Dante

Sarky wrote: »

Are you so young you don't remember the repeated government collapses of yesteryear? Rainbow Coalition? No? They not even teach it in schools these days?

Let the cards fall as they will for the coalition. The fact in that if the X legislation falls, the status quo remains...

B0jangles

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Your point is taken and I stand over my previous comment...

So you appear to be simultaneously very hard-right on abortion, but you continuously crack terrible jokes on the issue; almost as if you are fishing for reactions and don't really care about the fundamental issues at all.

Either you are a broken, weird pro-lifer, or you're a troll who has gone so far down the "get a reaction at any cost" path that you're not able to recognise when your behaviour has become sociopathic and your non-sociopath friends would probably be saying "Dude, you're getting weird, step away from the keyboard".

Sarky

Just promise us you'll come back here to apologise and admit you were wrong if/when the government does legislate for X in the near future. I promise that I won't make fun of you if it happens.

_rebelkid

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Its a tragic reality...:(

Doesn't answer the statement. You are OK with Irish babies being intentionally killed in England, so that treason can be maintained in Ireland, are you not?

Morag

Even the first bill does not make it through the Dáil then a second will be submitted and this will continue until we have legislation.

Silvio.Dante

swampgas wrote: »

If you really object to legislation for X, then start a campaign asking for another referendum to be put to the people. That's the only legitimate way that legislation for X can be avoided.

Multiple governments have sat on their hands on this issue, and shamefully so. They know it, the people know it, they simply cannot ignore their disgraceful dereliction of duty any longer. Frankly, I will be amazed, utterly amazed, if the government avoid legislating, and in the highly unlikely event that they don't it will be a constitutional crisis of grave proportions. It simply can't be avoided - the wheels are in motion.

You seem rather out of touch with the political realities involved here.

Just because you really really want it to happen, means squat if the Dail vote down the legislation...

swampgas

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Let the cards fall as they will for the coalition. The fact in that if the X legislation falls, the status quo remains...

My, you are naive if you think TDs will let the government collapse just to keep the anti-X legislation mob happy. They have far too much to lose.

It's not like there is any serious opposition from the other parties either, The status quo, as you like to call it, is untenable, is seen to be untenable, and cannot be allowed to continue unchanged.

Silvio.Dante

Morag wrote: »

Even the first bill does not make it through the Dáil then a second will be submitted and this will continue until we have legislation.

BINGO!!!

Like Morag, i know that if the legislation is voted down X cannot be introduced. hence the status quo remains and unborn babies remain safe from being intentionally killed in Irish hospitals.

Obviuosly a new attempt can be made in the future...

Silvio.Dante

swampgas wrote: »

My, you are naive if you think TDs will let the government collapse just to keep the anti-X legislation mob happy. They have far too much to lose.

It's not like there is any serious opposition from the other parties either, The status quo, as you like to call it, is untenable, is seen to be untenable, and cannot be allowed to continue unchanged.

The status quo's been in place over the last twenty years. It can go on another twenty if necessary...

_rebelkid

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Just because you really really want it to happen, means squat if the Dail vote down the legislation...

It would be political suicide if they did. Having the presidency of the EU meansthat Ireland is under intense international scrutiny. To shunt the country back into the 1800's would ruin this country for the foreseeable future.

Realistically, all that needs to be debated is the wording. The legislation has to happen. It is going to happen.

Silvio.Dante

_rebelkid wrote: »

It would be political suicide if they did. Having the presidency of the EU meansthat Ireland is under intense international scrutiny. To shunt the country back into the 1800's would ruin this country for the foreseeable future.

Realistically, all that needs to be debated is the wording. The legislation has to happen. It is going to happen.

Heaven forbid we should offend our betters in the EU :rolleyes:

Silvio.Dante

Anyway I'm off to my bed.

Speaking of Status Quo...:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A_iLG_LHu0

DB21

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

The status quo's been in place over the last twenty years. It can go on another twenty if necessary...

NO. IT. CAN'T.

Jesus Christ on a mother****ing pogostick. How are you not getting this. Within a year at most, the X case will have been legislated for. End of. No discussion.

_rebelkid

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

Heaven forbid we should offend our betters in the EU :rolleyes:

Well if the country wants to get back to economic stability, the EU is all we'v got. But that's not the topic, and you haven't answered my question.

Are you OK with Irish babies being intentionally killed as long as it is in a foreign hospital, because it means that treason remains in Ireland?

Silvio.Dante

DB21 wrote: »

NO. IT. CAN'T.

Jesus Christ on a mother****ing pogostick. How are you not getting this. Within a year at most, the X case will have been legislated for. End of. No discussion.

You can put bels on it aswell if you like. But it won't make it any more a reality if our TDs have the moral courage to reject X...

Silvio.Dante

_rebelkid wrote: »

Well if the country wants to get back to economic stability, the EU is all we'v got. But that's not the topic, and you haven't answered my question.

Are you OK with Irish babies being intentionally killed as long as it is in a foreign hospital, because it means that treason remains in Ireland?

I'm never happy for any baby being intentionally killed, never.

Enough of your silly treason talk...:p

To bed!!!

swampgas

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

You can put bels on it aswell if you like. But it won't make it any more a reality if our TDs have the moral courage to reject X...

If our TDs had any moral courage they would have legislated 20 years ago.

And what a bizarre concept of moral courage you have, that an elected member of a legislature should refuse to enact legislation demanded by the constitution as amended by the people in a referendum.

DB21

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

You can put bels on it aswell if you like. But it won't make it any more a reality if our TDs have the moral courage to reject X...

*headdesk*

Seriously, are you on the wind up? You are ignoring every point that has shown your position on whether or not X will be legislated for is wrong. This is frustrating as hell for those of us that want a proper discussion.

Peregrinus

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

You can put bels on it aswell if you like. But it won't make it any more a reality if our TDs have the moral courage to reject X...

Moral courage? Are you serious?

If our TDs had any moral courage, they would either uphold the Constitution under which they have been elected or, if they find that unconscionable, take steps to have the people amend it, or simply resign on the grounds that they cannot in conscience carry out the duties of their office. As they have done none of these things for the past twenty years, any hope that they will suddenly find and display moral courage now is an extraordinary one.

Your true hope is not that TDs will somehow found unparalleled moral courage, but that they will continue to stick their heads in the sand and hope that a politically embarrassing dilemma will go away. In fact, your hope is slightly more than that; you hope that the embarrassing dilemma will actually go away.

It won’t. Head-in-the-sand is, I grant you, a strategy that has worked surprisingly well for the past twenty years, but that doesn’t mean that it will work forever. Irish and European court decisions pointing to, and criticizing, the failure of the Oireachtas to discharge its proper constitutional function are piling up; these things do have a cumulative impact. And the death of Savita Halappanavar has made it impossible to deny any longer that inaction can have huge and horrifying consequences. History doesn’t run backwards; the political consequences of these developments cannot be wished away. If you imagine that Dail Eireann can reject legislation to give effect to the Constitution as it stands and that life can then continue on as if all this had been a momentary aberration, you are a dreamer. And if you think that that would be an example of “moral courage”, either do not know the meaning of the word “moral” or you do not know the meaning of the word “courage”.

krankykitty

Silvio.

I don't know whether you are winding us all up here, or whether you actually cannot grasp the concept of how this country is run (it's been explained very very clearly by a number of posters, that's without you having to even Google it).

It is simply unconstitutional for the government to ignore the will of the people as determined by referendum, and it is a disgrace that it has been ignored for so long. This WILL come to pass, it's just a matter of the wording.

I'll put it to you another way. It would be currently unconstitutional to introduce abortion"on demand" outside the constraints laid out in X. Imagine if abortion on demand was legislated for or otherwise introduced in this country. This would be unconstitutional and you can bet your bottom dollar you and your lot would suddenly have a GREAT understanding of the constitution and would be whinging about how the people never voted for it etc.

Either you want to participate in a democracy/republic or you don't. Perhaps somewhere running Sharia law may be more to your liking.

I have to say, you're not representing your side very well.

_rebelkid

Silvio.Dante wrote: »

I'm never happy for any baby being intentionally killed, never.

So, you believe they should not travel to England to have an abortion?