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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #5582
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    If the present medical council guidelines alone were to be legislated for I'd have no problem...

    Ok, so I'm a little confused. The Medical council guidelines are based on the the constitution, and the upcoming legislation will be based on the constitution, and we haven't even seen the proposed legislation yet, so what exactly are you against??


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    #5583
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    _rebelkid wrote: »
    Well you said they were "Death Chambers". They are not.


    So theres no human life taken in abortion clinics? Really..?


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    #5584
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Flier wrote: »
    so what exactly are you against??


    The intentional killing of unborn babies. We've been here already I think..:)


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    #5585
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    So theres no human life taken in abortion clinics? Really..?

    Death chamber insinuates that anyone who goes in there, and that is anyone under any prerequisite, will be put to death. No one is put to death in an abortion clinic.

    We've been through the "human vs human life" part of the debate already.


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    #5586
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Never have and don't intend to either. Nothing personal. Unlike others here...

    'doctor' - Explain why you wrote it thus.


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    #5587
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    _rebelkid wrote: »
    Death chamber insinuates that anyone who goes in there, and that is anyone under any prerequisite, will be put to death.


    In the case of an abortion clinic thats exactly what happens to every unborn baby going in.


    Is it dawning on you now..?


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    #5588
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    The intentional killing of unborn babies. We've been here already I think..:)

    But the Medical council guindelines allows for abortion, for the 'intentional killing of unborn babies' as you put it, so if you're in favour of legislation to reflect those guidelines, why are you protesting??


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    #5589
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »


    In the case of an abortion clinic thats exactly what happens to every unborn baby going in.


    Is it dawning on you now..?
    No, there's no dawning required..... :)
    Its terminating a dangerous, unwanted or non viable foetus.... :)
    No killing takes place..... :):):)


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    #5590
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    In the case of an abortion clinic thats exactly what happens to every unborn baby going in.


    Is it dawning on you now..?

    It doesn't apply. Your term is either all or none. So either everyone goes into a Death Chamber and is killed, or no one goes into a death chamber.

    And it is not a baby, so there is no dawning. Nor is there any dawning on your part as to the futility or rejecting a fixed point and an actual law that will be in place.


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    #5591
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Can people please stop with all the smiley faces. Be it mocking or not, it is extremely annoying. Just a full stop will do, no need for extraneous emoticons.


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    #5592
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    I like this death chamber language- it exposes the emotional bullying of the prolife brigade


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    #5593
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Flier wrote: »
    But the Medical council guindelines allows for abortion, for the 'intentional killing of unborn babies' as you put it, so if you're in favour of legislation to reflect those guidelines, why are you protesting??


    Got the relevant quotes from the guidelines there..?


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    #5594
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    lazygal wrote: »
    No, there's no dawning required..... :)
    Its terminating a dangerous, unwanted or non viable foetus.... :)
    No killing takes place..... :):):)


    So Marie Stopes clinics only kill babies where there's a direct risk to the life of the mother..?


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    #5595
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    _rebelkid wrote: »
    It doesn't apply. Your term is either all or none. So either everyone goes into a Death Chamber and is killed, or no one goes into a death chamber.

    And it is not a baby, so there is no dawning. Nor is there any dawning on your part as to the futility or rejecting a fixed point and an actual law that will be in place.


    Squirm much..?


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    #5596
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Got the relevant quotes from the guidelines there..?

    http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Registration/Guide-to-Professional-Conduct-and-Behaviour-for-Registered-Medical-Practitioners.pdf


    pdf, so doesn't copy nicely, but it's all there.

    21 Abortion 21.1 Abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and
    substantial risk to the life (as distinct from the health) of the mother. Under current legal precedent, this exception includes where there is a clear and substantial risk to the life of the mother arising from a threat of suicide. You should undertake a full assess- ment of any such risk in light of the clinical research on this issue.
    21.2 It is lawful to provide information in Ireland about abortions abroad, subject to strict conditions.4 It is not lawful to encourage or advocate an abortion in individual cases.
    21.3 You have a duty to provide care, support and follow-up services for women who have an abortion abroad.
    21.4 In current obstetrical practice, rare complications can arise where therapeutic intervention (including termination of a pregnancy) is required at a stage when, due to extreme immaturity of the baby, there may be little or no hope of the baby surviving. In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.


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    #5597
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »


    So Marie Stopes clinics only kill babies where there's a direct risk to the life of the mother..?
    It adheres to UK guidelines, which are humane and recognize pregnancy, labour and birth isn't something a woman should be forced to undergo.
    You can call it killing babies, its semantics really. I'll do something you won't and give you a straight answer. If my "unborn baby" was going to compromise my health or wouldn't live past birth or meant my born children might be left without a mother, I'd have not a moment of hesitation about 'killing' it.
    No smiley face required.


  • Options
    #5598
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    efb wrote: »
    I like this death chamber language- it exposes the emotional bullying of the prolife brigade


    Alas we don't have many testimonies from people who survived, as unborn babies, a visit to one of these death chambers.

    Why is that do you think..?


  • Options
    #5599
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »


    Alas we don't have many testimonies from people who survived, as unborn babies, a visit to one of these death chambers.

    Why is that do you think..?
    Because the termination of pregnancy was successful. The same way the egg I shed during menstruation last month isn't here to testify, along with my husband's sperm.


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    #5600
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Alas we don't have many testimonies from people who survived, as unborn babies, a visit to one of these death chambers.

    Why is that do you think..?

    We don't have patients revist hospices should we call them death chambers too???


  • Options
    #5601
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Flier wrote: »
    http://www.medicalcouncil.ie/Registration/Guide-to-Professional-Conduct-and-Behaviour-for-Registered-Medical-Practitioners.pdf


    pdf, so doesn't copy nicely, but it's all there.

    21 Abortion 21.1 Abortion is illegal in Ireland except where there is a real and
    substantial risk to the life (as distinct from the health) of the mother. Under current legal precedent, this exception includes where there is a clear and substantial risk to the life of the mother arising from a threat of suicide. You should undertake a full assess- ment of any such risk in light of the clinical research on this issue.
    21.2 It is lawful to provide information in Ireland about abortions abroad, subject to strict conditions.4 It is not lawful to encourage or advocate an abortion in individual cases.
    21.3 You have a duty to provide care, support and follow-up services for women who have an abortion abroad.
    21.4 In current obstetrical practice, rare complications can arise where therapeutic intervention (including termination of a pregnancy) is required at a stage when, due to extreme immaturity of the baby, there may be little or no hope of the baby surviving. In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.
    21.4 being the relevant point...:)


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    #5602
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Alas we don't have many testimonies from people who survived, as unborn babies, a visit to one of these death chambers.

    Why is that do you think..?

    You don't like the Taliban reference but are happy to imply that anyone who favours abortion in some circumstances is promoting the use of "death chambers"?

    Does the word "irony" mean anything to you?


  • Options
    #5603
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    lazygal wrote: »
    It adheres to UK guidelines, which are humane and recognize pregnancy, labour and birth isn't something a woman should be forced to undergo.
    You can call it killing babies, its semantics really. I'll do something you won't and give you a straight answer. If my "unborn baby" was going to compromise my health or wouldn't live past birth or meant my born children might be left without a mother, I'd have not a moment of hesitation about 'killing' it.
    No smiley face required.


    Thought so. Thank you for the confirmation...


  • Options
    #5604
    _rebelkid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭_rebelkid


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Squirm much..?

    Wow, a play of the Infidel card. Nice to see that Taliban are treating you well...


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    #5605
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    lazygal wrote: »
    Because the termination of pregnancy was successful.

    BINGO!

    Sucess in this instnace being the intentional killing of an innocent life...:(


  • Options
    #5606
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »


    Thought so. Thank you for the confirmation...
    You're welcome. You be sure and tell me when you're pregnant and I'll tell you exactly what you can do with your body.


  • Options
    #5607
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »

    BINGO!

    Sucess in this instnace being the intentional killing of an innocent life...:(
    Are the unborn killed during medical procedures not victims of medical termination, or as you call it an unintended side effect?


  • Options
    #5608
    Flier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭Flier


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    21.4 being the relevant point...:)

    They're guidelines - you can't pick and chose which part of it you want to read. You said you were in favour of legislation to reflect those guidelines, but now you say only one part of them. Even the bit you agree with allows for abortion. You just don't get to put your own slant on it. Either you agree or you don't.



    21.4 In current obstetrical practice, rare complications can arise where therapeutic intervention (including termination of a pregnancy) is required at a stage when, due to extreme immaturity of the baby, there may be little or no hope of the baby surviving. In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.


  • Options
    #5609
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    lazygal wrote: »
    Are the unborn killed during medical procedures not victims of medical termination, or as you call it an unintended side effect?

    Terminations so save the life of the mother are fully justified, even if tragically it leads to the unintentional death of the baby...


  • Options
    #5610
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »

    Terminations so save the life of the mother are fully justified, even if tragically it leads to the unintentional death of the baby...
    When is a termination not a termination? Why is your justification legitimate? Why do you priotise the unborn over the born?


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    #5611
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Squirm much..?


    Why did you write doctor as 'doctor'?


This discussion has been closed.
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