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Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

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    #5852
    Doctor Strange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Doctor Strange


    What's the craic with the report? I heard there's legal delays now cause parts were leaked?


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    #5853
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    It turns out the risk to Savita's life wasn't picked up by the medical staff, hence the referrence to a terminaton not being legal. Yet the Probort supporters are still hijacking her death to pedal their obsession with kiling unborn babies.

    Shameful...:(


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    #5854
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    It turns out the risk to Savita's life wasn't picked up by the medical staff, hence the referrence to a terminaton not being legal. Yet the Probort supporters are still hijacking her death to pedal their obsession with kiling unborn babies.

    Shameful...:(

    We interrupt the looped tape of "Waaah, de baybees" with an exerpt from the report, as stated in the Herald......
    To prevent the spread of infection, staff should have considered performing an abortion – even before the couple requested it – but this never happened.


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    #5855
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Nodin wrote: »
    We interrupt the looped tape of "Waaah, de baybees" with an exerpt from the report, as stated in the Herald......

    The staff didn't pick up on the risk to her life.

    get it..?


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    #5856
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Unforgettable _ Fire wrote: »
    What's the craic with the report? I heard there's legal delays now cause parts were leaked?


    No mention of that on the News. Reilly did say
    Earlier, Minister for Health James Reilly said if someone mounts a legal challenge that could cause problems.
    He said the inquiry team was still compiling its findings.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0213/367565-savita-halappanavar-report/


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    #5857
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    The staff didn't pick up on the risk to her life.

    get it..?


    ....because, to go again to the article

    An extract from the draft report says there was too much emphasis with the foetal heartbeat and not enough on the mother's health. It says that the absence of legislation in which abortions can be carried out was a contributory factor.
    http://www.herald.ie/news/savita-the-truth-29068036.html


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    #5858
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....because, to go again to the article

    http://www.herald.ie/news/savita-the-truth-29068036.html[/QUOTE]

    The medical staff didn't recognise any threat to her life, mistakenly... Get it now..?


    If they did, a termination should have taken place...


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    #5859
    Doctor Strange
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭Doctor Strange


    Nodin wrote: »
    No mention of that on the News. Reilly did say


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0213/367565-savita-halappanavar-report/

    Ah right, I misheard then. I heard the words "legal challenge" and thought someone had gone to court on account of the leak.


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    #5860
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Nodin wrote: »
    ....because, to go again to the article

    http://www.herald.ie/news/savita-the-truth-29068036.html[/QUOTE]

    The medical staff didn't recognise any threat to her life, mistakenly... Get it now..?


    If they did, a termination should have taken place...

    or to put it another way, an abortion should have been carried out.


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    #5861
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Bannasidhe wrote: »

    or to put it another way, an abortion should have been carried out.


    ...but wasn't, due to a lack of clarity over abortion guidelines, and a fixation on the foetal heartbbeat, or so I read it.


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    #5862
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...but wasn't, due to a lack of clarity over abortion guidelines, and a fixation on the foetal heartbbeat, or so I read it.

    Completely wrong.

    the staff didn't perceive there was a risk to her life. If they had a termination would and should have been carried out...


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    #5863
    Lingua Franca
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭Lingua Franca


    Nodin is completely right.
    An extract from the draft report says there was too much emphasis with the foetal heartbeat and not enough on the mother's health. It says that the absence of legislation in which abortions can be carried out was a contributory factor.

    http://www.herald.ie/news/savita-the-truth-29068036.html

    Look, a quote and a link.


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    #5864
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Completely wrong.

    the staff didn't perceive there was a risk to her life. If they had a termination would and should have been carried out...

    By 'termination' do you mean 'abortion'?


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    #5865
    ShooterSF
    Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    If our campaign against X works then it most certainly will be justified...

    Eh I know that's what you believe because that was my point :confused:

    You feel that it is ok to lie, cheat or steal to get what you want and that's your choice but it doesn't mean the other side are doing it too. The problem is that when you believe it's ok to do all this it is very hard to believe that the other side don't feel the same way and aren't also lying cheating or stealing to get their way. Therefore it makes sense to you that the report is not impartial but a conspiracy by the pro-choice side to lie and cheat their way to their desired end because if the other side we able to fudge the report they would. Projection.


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    #5866
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    You feel that it is ok to lie, cheat or steal to get what you want and that's your choice but it doesn't mean the other side are doing it too.

    Slander much..?


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    #5867
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    Lingua Franca wrote: »
    Nodin is completely right.



    http://www.herald.ie/news/savita-the-truth-29068036.html

    Look, a quote and a link.


    So are you tellling us the staff were fully aware of the risk to her life..?


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    #5868
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,798 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnvwWEdOG8M

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #5869
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    If our campaign against X works then it most certainly will be justified...

    Justified how? Because it means that you want to subvert democracy to have your minority moral position enforced on the Irish people. I'm surprised you don't seem to understand the significance of what you are saying - that most Irish people can go hang as long as you and your vocal hard-line friends get their way.


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    #5870
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Slander much..?

    How is the truth considered slander?


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    #5871
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    Completely wrong.

    the staff didn't perceive there was a risk to her life. If they had a termination would and should have been carried out...

    If you accept that terminations are allowable where there is risk to a woman's life, why are you so against X? After all, there is a real risk to the life of a genuinely suicidal woman.

    The X legislation being proposed here is so restrictive it will in no way allow for abortion on demand.

    I really can't see how the X legislation is something you would be too concerned about - certainly not to the extent that you would be prepared to throw democratic principles out the window in order to block it.


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    #5872
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,710 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    If my memory is right, Savita's widower-husband stated that Savita had asked for a termination as her medical training had "informed" her that one was needed. She "read" her body correctly and it's possible that the hospital's medical staff treating her followed the usual practice of "we know best, dear" and totally ignored what she said.

    There's the chance that the report might well say it was entirely possible to comply with Savita's request and operate within the laws of our state and the guidelines of the medical professions.

    If this does in fact turn out to be what is published in the report, then (IMO) the finger of blame should be pointed directly towards those who pushed a religious ethos on the Medic's in Galway, leading to a decision fatal for Savita.


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    #5873
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    aloyisious wrote: »
    If my memory is right, Savita's widower-husband stated that Savita had asked for a termination as her medical training had "informed" her that one was needed. She "read" her body correctly and it's possible that the hospital's medical staff treating her followed the usual practice of "we know best, dear" and totally ignored what she said.

    This is certainly the experience I and others had during pre and postnatal care. I knew my baby wasn't lying in the right position, but was fobbed off when I raised this at an antenatal class by a very 'I know what I'm talking about' nurse/midwife. A scan the next day confirmed I was right and meant I needed weekly appointments and to be very much on guard if I went into labour. My consultant, in fairness, was brilliant and told me to listen to what my body was telling me. I know women who knew they were in active labour, were dismissed and left on a 'normal' non delivery ward, only to give birth shortly afterwards. I know another woman who's baby was lying the same way as I was who ended up with serious complications as she was told not be demanding a section when the theatre was chock a block with 'real' emergencies.

    Overall the care I got was good but not amazing, like people often say about Irish antenatal care, and I think a lot of it was the traditional 'hysterical woman' attitude, from staff at all levels. Its also not PC to say it but I definitely got better care in some areas by going private, a lot more scans, which I found reassuring, a better relationship with my consultant and better aftercare.


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    #5874
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    lazygal wrote: »
    This is certainly the experience I and others had during pre and postnatal care. I knew my baby wasn't lying in the right position, but was fobbed off when I raised this at an antenatal class by a very 'I know what I'm talking about' nurse/midwife. A scan the next day confirmed I was right and meant I needed weekly appointments and to be very much on guard if I went into labour. My consultant, in fairness, was brilliant and told me to listen to what my body was telling me. I know women who knew they were in active labour, were dismissed and left on a 'normal' non delivery ward, only to give birth shortly afterwards. I know another woman who's baby was lying the same way as I was who ended up with serious complications as she was told not be demanding a section when the theatre was chock a block with 'real' emergencies.

    Overall the care I got was good but not amazing, like people often say about Irish antenatal care, and I think a lot of it was the traditional 'hysterical woman' attitude, from staff at all levels. Its also not PC to say it but I definitely got better care in some areas by going private, a lot more scans, which I found reassuring, a better relationship with my consultant and better aftercare.

    Whether one is pro choice or pro life, it really infuriates me when I read reports about how pregnant women are treated sometimes in hospitals. My best friend gave birth to her little fella (my godson) when she was quite young and it was her first and I imagine she was terrified. She told me they pretty much refused to give her an epidural. Basically by constantly telling her "its too early, its too early" and then "oh look, its too late". She was crying for her mum and apparently screamed at the father to warn me never to have a baby :rolleyes:. A woman in labour is so vulnerable, its maddening that staff can get away with this kind of treatment.


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    #5875
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Whether one is pro choice or pro life, it really infuriates me when I read reports about how pregnant women are treated sometimes in hospitals. My best friend gave birth to her little fella (my godson) when she was quite young and it was her first and I imagine she was terrified. She told me they pretty much refused to give her an epidural. Basically by constantly telling her "its too early, its too early" and then "oh look, its too late". She was crying for her mum and apparently screamed at the father to warn me never to have a baby :rolleyes:. A woman in labour is so vulnerable, its maddening that staff can get away with this kind of treatment.

    That's the same way one of my brother's was born. He was my mum's third child, but they wouldn't believe her when she said that she'd gone into labour. He was damn near born on a trolley in the corridor.


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    #5876
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    koth wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnvwWEdOG8M
    Saw this one last night -- what a farcical interview.

    Martin said that the risk of suicide "opens the door to abortion on demand", then -- making a judgement call on the risk of suicide himself -- implied that he didn't trust medical professionals to make a judgement call on the risk of suicide. How come the interviewer let him off on this fairly obvious point?

    Of course, he's just waiting for the government to publish its legislation so that he can see which way the political wind is blowing, then follow it one way or the other.

    What a buffoon.


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    #5877
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    She told me they pretty much refused to give her an epidural. Basically by constantly telling her "its too early, its too early" and then "oh look, its too late"..
    Similar thing happened to my mother when she was having my younger brother - she asked for an epidural, and was told "Oh we're busy and a bit low on the drugs, we're saving them for the first-time mothers" - they wouldn't give her one as it was her 2nd child and she could "handle it". Clearly things haven't changed much since 1987...


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    #5878
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    kylith wrote: »
    That's the same way one of my brother's was born. He was my mum's third child, but they wouldn't believe her when she said that she'd gone into labour. He was damn near born on a trolley in the corridor.

    I was born on a trolley in the corridor. They told my mother not to be so silly when she said I was coming...

    Seems like little has changed in close to 50 years....:(


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    #5879
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    How is the truth considered slander?


    I see a Mod thanked this post :rolleyes:

    Show me where I have lied, cheated or stolen. Failure to do so will atuomatically imply your retraction and acceptance by me...


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    #5880
    Silvio.Dante
    Site Banned Posts: 4,066 ✭✭✭Silvio.Dante


    swampgas wrote: »
    If you accept that terminations are allowable where there is risk to a woman's life, why are you so against X? After all, there is a real risk to the life of a genuinely suicidal woman.

    The X legislation being proposed here is so restrictive it will in no way allow for abortion on demand.

    I really can't see how the X legislation is something you would be too concerned about - certainly not to the extent that you would be prepared to throw democratic principles out the window in order to block it.

    The suicide clause. Thin end of a horrific wedge. Get suicide off the X legislation and you may be on to something...


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    #5881
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Silvio.Dante wrote: »
    If our campaign against X works then it most certainly will be justified...
    Silvio, when you refer to "our" campaign, you become answerable for the wrongs of the campaigners you associate with. This is not personal to you.

    A read through this thread will point out the instances where groups like Youth Defense have either lied, cheated or stolen.


This discussion has been closed.
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