Abortion/ *Note* Thread Closing Shortly! ! !

Ickle Magoo

christmas2012 wrote: »

She got no abortion aftercare,she had to get the plane back home,when she was at home she realised she had an infection,and if it had set it it could cause future miscarraiges and render her infertile if it continued..If it doesnt sit well with your pro abortion arguement i dont care.

She then went to a GP in her local vicinity,it was awkward for her,there was a huge queue,she had to wait,then when she got to the chemist they didnt have that particular antibiotic stocked,they had to order it,and she had to wait a couple of days - with the infection setting in.

Firstly, I don't think anyone is pro-abortion....that's another example of unnecessary hysterical language which undermines any point you are trying to make.

Secondly - do you not think someone having been badly treated or not getting ideal treatment because they have to seek it out in a different country, from a medical practitioner or establishment they don't know are reasons to ensure that women are not put in that position? I'm really not following your argument? Women travel to the UK, some in less than ideal circumstances/get less than ideal treatment = a reason to argue for nothing changing/that continuing?

28064212

christmas2012 wrote: »

how naive is that statement of course if you put yourself at risk of infection,it makes it more likely.

Did you even read my post? Pregnancy puts you at risk of infection. Whether the pregnancy is subsequently aborted or carried to full term makes no difference

eviltwin

None of what you are saying is making sense. Unless you were sitting in on the abortion I don't know how you can be so sure of what your friend went through seeing as how she was asleep when it happened.

You say you care about her but yet you would deny her the chance to get proper after care here.

You say she made the right decision but yet you still think it was the wrong thing to do.

Its all a bit

christmas2012

None of what you are saying is making sense. Unless you were sitting in on the abortion I don't know how you can be so sure of what your friend went through seeing as how she was asleep when it happened.

She told me what she saw and what she rememebered,in conscious sedation you are not supposed to remember everything yet she remembered some bits of the invasive abortion procedure.

You say you care about her but yet you would deny her the chance to get proper after care here.

Where did i deny her proper aftercare i even dropped her down to the local gp..

You say she made the right decision but yet you still think it was the wrong thing to do

She said she didnt regret it ,but would not go through another abortion again,as it was a painful and traumatic experience,it still stays with her..

I do think it was the wrong thing to do but i dont judge her for it,after what i witnessed i think yes it was the wrong decision but how did i know the abortion would be so brutal..

eviltwin

christmas2012 wrote: »

She told me what she saw and what she rememebered,in conscious sedation you are not supposed to remember everything yet she remembered some bits of the invasive abortion procedure.



Where did i deny her proper aftercare i even dropped her down to the local gp..



She said she didnt regret it ,but would not go through another abortion again,as it was a painful and traumatic experience,it still stays with her..

I do think it was the wrong thing to do but i dont judge her for it,after what i witnessed i think yes it was the wrong decision but how did i know the abortion would be so brutal..

What exactly did you witness if you weren't there? Something about your story doesn't add up, I don't think I can comment on your "friend" anymore.

christmas2012

I was there i did witness what happened but obviously i wouldnt be allowed in the abortion room,but afterwards i did see her and the pain she was in and she only got ONE paracetamol tablet off the nurse?

Just because it doesnt sit with your pro abortion world view doesnt mean it didnt happen,it did and this is why im sharing my story bc if it help another woman understand abortion is not just an academic debate,its not just a word - there is more to it than that,theres risk of infection,future miscarraiges etc..

Bannasidhe

Sin City wrote: »

Im glad you got to see and hold your granddaugher and that she is doing well

As for the comment about looking after the children that are already here, that has never come up and probably belongs to a different thread on its own. Yes it does need urgent attention too. This country is riddles with tradgides from industrial schools

So am I, but my point was the decision to continue or end the pregnancy was not mine to make. I am glad her mother decided to have the child (at huge financial cost to me) but if she had decided to end it - I would have respected that decision even if I didn't like it.

The father of this child felt the same way.

How many children living in poverty could have been helped by the monies Youth Defense spent on feckin billboards? Billboards!!! That really angers me. :mad:

Lantus

For a country that has a socially distorted view on sex and relationships in that they are generall not discussed, children receive and have historically received no education on the subject its surprising how vocal peole seem to become on the issue of abortion.

If people believe that abortion would somehow make people more flipant towards sex then it is a gross generalisation. Contraception is a cheaper and easier way to enjoy sex and not suffer consequences. Abortion by contrast is a medical procedure that costs vastly more and is a much more involved process.

Ultimatley we need to educate the younger generation at an early stage on sex and the workings of the body, its scientific processes and what pregnancy entails. Something sadly lacking from our education system as currently we only train them just enough to get jobs and professions.

The vast complexity of life like nutrition, social behaviour, human interaction including sex, parenting are left to private companies with a vested interest in selling a product or parents who dont have the required skills or their peers who are grossly misinformed.

Abortion should be available to give women a choice. How dare we call ourselves a civilised nation when we force our women to travel under cloak of secrecy to hve abortions abroad. The truth is we are a stupid and savage nation of people, ignorant to most aspects of importance and governed in part by ancient myth structures from thousands of years ago that no longer make any sense. But we can change....

eviltwin

christmas2012 wrote: »

I was there i did witness what happened but obviously i wouldnt be allowed in the abortion room,but afterwards i did see her and the pain she was in and she only got ONE paracetamol tablet off the nurse?

Just because it doesnt sit with your pro abortion world view doesnt mean it didnt happen,it did and this is why im sharing my story bc if it help another woman understand abortion is not just an academic debate,its not just a word - there is more to it than that..

I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro-choice, big difference.

oldrnwisr

christmas2012 wrote: »

She got no abortion aftercare,she had to get the plane back home,when she was at home she realised she had an infection,and if it had set it it could cause future miscarraiges and render her infertile if it continued..If it doesnt sit well with your pro abortion arguement i dont care.

She then went to a GP in her local vicinity,it was awkward for her,there was a huge queue,she had to wait,then when she got to the chemist they didnt have that particular antibiotic stocked,they had to order it,and she had to wait a couple of days - with the infection setting in.

Firstly, I'm not pro-abortion I'm anti- bad arguments.

Now back to your argument.

Firstly, if your friend had a bad experience that's unfortunate but you seem to be implying that this is representative of the abortion experience without having offered a single piece of evidence to support such a claim. The things you describe are not in keeping with best practice which I posted previously.

Secondly, regarding miscarriage post-abortion, while there is a generally recognised increased risk of miscarriage following abortion, this increase is relatively small and certain types of miscarriage (placenta previa, ectopic pregnancy) have been shown to have no association with abortion.

Thirdly, there is no significant impact of abortion on fertility. Any study which has examined the relationship has found at best borderline and in most cases no significance between abortion and infertility. You can examine the studies for yourself here:

Induced abortions, miscarriages, and tobacco smoking as risk factors for secondary infertility

Tubal infertility in relation to prior induced abortion

christmas2012 wrote: »

Do you know what NSAIDs are?They are paracetemol tablets..And i can attest to the fact...They dont work..

Yes, I know what NSAIDs are, although you don't seem to.

Paracetamol (Wiki)

NSAID (Wiki)


"Though acetaminophen is used to treat inflammatory pain, it is not generally classified as an NSAID because it exhibits only weak anti-inflammatory activity."

Oh, and

"Prophylactic paracetamol (oral or rectal) is ineffective in reducing pain after surgical abortion and is not recommended."

Missed that bit, did you?

old hippy

christmas2012 wrote: »

I was there i did witness what happened but obviously i wouldnt be allowed in the abortion room,but afterwards i did see her and the pain she was in and she only got ONE paracetamol tablet off the nurse?

Just because it doesnt sit with your pro abortion world view doesnt mean it didnt happen,it did and this is why im sharing my story bc if it help another woman understand abortion is not just an academic debate,its not just a word - there is more to it than that,theres risk of infection,future miscarraiges etc..

Perhaps you could share it on the Pro-Life sites that like to promote falsehoods and scaremongering. No woman here would find your hysterical comments helpful at all.

Sarky

I when oldrnwisr drifts by on a cloud of facts, flinging arrows of truth and credible sources at all and sundry, like some sort of knowledge-based Cupid...

christmas2012

Well..What she got was a parecetemol tablet and that was it,nothing else,she didnt even get iboprufen which is a sh!t painkiller too,beleive me i tried them for tooth extractions..

christmas2012

this is why im sharing my story bc if it help another woman understand abortion is not just an academic debate,its not just a word - there is more to it than that

Firstly,point out where the hysteria is in my bolded comments..?

No woman here would find your hysterical comments helpful at all.

eviltwin

christmas2012 wrote: »

Well..What she got was a parecetemol tablet and that was it,nothing else,she didnt even get iboprufen which is a sh!t painkiller too,beleive me i tried them for tooth extractions..

Well she went to a second rate clinic then, she should complain, she is entitled to due care no matter why she was there or where she came from.

By all means warn people of the dodgy establishments out there and warn them of what they might encounter in such places but please don't pass off her experience as the norm because its not.

doctoremma

christmas2012 wrote: »

Well..What she got was a parecetemol tablet and that was it,nothing else,she didnt even get iboprufen which is a sh!t painkiller too,beleive me i tried them for tooth extractions..

I don't get why you're so cross about this. You can buy paracetamol, ibuprofen and codeine tablets over-the-counter. You can combine any of these in pair-wise combinations. If she was in that much pain, why didn't you go and buy some painkillers for her?

Hospitals give paracetamol because, for most women, this is enough to control any pain (or to act as a prophylactic placebo). If you friend had an extreme reaction, it would have been very easy and very cheap to solve.

Bannasidhe

Sarky wrote: »

I when oldrnwisr drifts by on a cloud of facts, flinging arrows of truth and credible sources at all and sundry, like some sort of knowledge-based Cupid...

Sin City

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So am I, but my point was the decision to continue or end the pregnancy was not mine to make. I am glad her mother decided to have the child (at huge financial cost to me) but if she had decided to end it - I would have respected that decision even if I didn't like it.

The father of this child felt the same way.

How many children living in poverty could have been helped by the monies Youth Defense spent on feckin billboards? Billboards!!! That really angers me. :mad:

I dunno, if I was the father and I wanted the child and she didnt would I have been so accepting of her decesion to terminate.
Maybe Im selfish, or maybe I want life to exist


As for the youth defence yeah your right about the use of their funding

iguana

robindch wrote: »

However, I'm still wondering whether anybody can consider that the father has any rights at all, even in principle?

In most cases the father does have rights/responsibilities. Every time I do something that I'm unsure of, whether it's deciding to go to the maternity ward when I fell over, taking a couple of paracetamol, or debating a visit my brother's flat where he two foster kittens of unknown origin, I ask for my husband's opinion on what I should do. He then always tells me it's up to me as it's my body. I point out it effects his baby. He still feels uncomfortable even contemplating having a say in what I should do and I'm sad to say on occasion I end up shouting at him for abdicating responsibility of our baby's health.:o

As far as I'm concerned he absolutely has a say in anything that might impact on the health of our baby, because I think it's fair and, tbh, because I don't want all of that responsibility even though ultimately, in the practical sense that responsibility is mine and mine alone. And that's where the talk of rights misses the point completely. Sure parents have rights over their children but those rights are of minuscule importance compared to the responsibilities. A pregnant woman has 100% responsibility for the embryo/foetus. It can't be any other way. She can try to share that responsibility but ultimately it's all on her. A man doesn't have a right to a say about his potential baby, he has a responsibility to have that say, but the final decision will always end with the woman because it's her body. Whatever people think about that from a moral perspective doesn't matter. It's her body, she is going to do what she wants with it. There is no more point in arguing against that than there is in shaking your fist at a rain cloud.

Bannasidhe

christmas2012 wrote: »

I was there i did witness what happened but obviously i wouldnt be allowed in the abortion room,but afterwards i did see her and the pain she was in and she only got ONE paracetamol tablet off the nurse?

Just because it doesnt sit with your pro abortion world view doesnt mean it didnt happen,it did and this is why im sharing my story bc if it help another woman understand abortion is not just an academic debate,its not just a word - there is more to it than that,theres risk of infection,future miscarraiges etc..

christmas - you mentioned that you phoned various clinics in the UK. May I ask if this was to get information for your friend? Do you perhaps feel some guilt that she had such a negative experience as you were involved in arranging her abortion?

old hippy

christmas2012 wrote: »

Firstly,point out where the hysteria is in my bolded comments..?

Your talk of sharing your story, like you're on some kind of mission.

Your talk of unpaltable truths which you have not yet defined or backed up.

Your talk of facts, where there are none.

Your ignoring everything that people in the know have pointed out to you.

Your repeated use of emotive words and talk of "world view".

You share nothing but a myopic, one-sided experience that you may or may not have witnessed.

(And I know this is not on topic but I think I can justify the inclusion - you have previous form for wild exaggeration and promoting mistruths, falsehoods and hysteria on other forums here.

Putting it frankly, I don't know what your agenda is but I don't believe a word you say. And I'm not just basing it on this thread.)

18AD

christmas2012, most of your argument isn't anti-abortion, it's for better medical and psychological care.

Sarky

Ibuprofin is quite an effective painkiller. Thanks to Ibuprofin and drugs like it, I suffered no pain at all from my last wisdom tooth extraction ( A nasty invasive procedure where one of the largest teeth in your jawbone is ripped out of the socket with a pliers). It also greatly helped my recovery from a thyroid lobectomy (a nasty invasive procedure where your neck is sliced open and bits are cut out) and a year before that, the removal of my tonsils and adenoid glands (a nasty invasive procedure where part of your throat is cut out and cauterised, and two small glands far up your nasal passage are similarly removed). Oh, and let's not forget the gastroscopy (A nasty invasive procedure where they shove a camera down your throat and cut out tissue samples of your stomach) and colonoscopy (A nasty invasive procedure where they shove a camera up your bottom, and cut out tissue samples of your digestive tract).

Funnily enough, after so many invasive procedures in the last two years, I'm feeling bloody brilliant.

I'm not convinced you know anything about ibuprofin. Or invasive procedures, for that matter.

doctoremma

Slightly tangential but do any of you guys know if Irish women arriving here in the UK for abortions get any local support, maybe from girls the UK who have experienced it and know what to demand/expect (from a logistics POV) or who offer a bed for the night or something? Or do you feel you get enough info at home?

christmas2012

Oldhippy,You say i talk of facts when there are none , CLEARLY YOU HAVENT READ MY POSTS..YES MISCARRIAGES ARE A RISK AFTER ABORTION..FACT..DONT LIKE IT?IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU SAY,ITS STILL A FACT.

Infection is a risk of abortion - fact.

Abortion is an invasive procedure - fact.

Abortion is a painful procedure and you need pain medication (that is weak and doesnt work) - another fact.


You dont have to like it,but its true.


Old hippy i notice you are getting on the defensive of the pro abortion lobby no matter what truths are put before you.


Thats your problem to deal with,and you should try to manage it in a more mature manner.
[\QUOTE]You share nothing but a myopic, one-sided experience that you may or may not have witnessed.[/QUOTE]

Its not one sided,i have shared my views on it,and also my friends,she says she doesnt regret it,but sometimes has her what if moments,but she does regret the traumatic experience,and if she knew more about the abortion she wouldnt have had it in the first place,as there was no sufficient aftercare.

I am not pro or anti abortion per se,so my views are NOT one sided like you have just claimed.

eviltwin

doctoremma wrote: »

Slightly tangential but do any of you guys know if Irish women arriving here in the UK for abortions get any local support, maybe from girls the UK who have experienced it and know what to demand/expect (from a logistics POV) or who offer a bed for the night or something? Or do you feel you get enough info at home?

The only information I got was from the clinic itself. They gave me lists of local hotels, bed and breakfasts, sent me a map, they had a taxi to collect us and bring us in so we didn't have to worry about finding our way. Their website had a special section for Irish women which was full of local info. At the time I didn't really think I would need it but it was good to have it, it made things a bit easier, it was one less thing to worry about.

In saying that I was with someone and I was staying over for a few days, also I was well used to travelling and was that bit older. If I had been alone or very young I think I would have loved some more one to one support.

christmas2012

christmas2012, most of your argument isn't anti-abortion, it's for better medical and psychological care.

I agree there should be abortion aftercare,its such a shame really.

Bannasidhe

doctoremma wrote: »

Slightly tangential but do any of you guys know if Irish women arriving here in the UK for abortions get any local support, maybe from girls the UK who have experienced it and know what to demand/expect (from a logistics POV) or who offer a bed for the night or something? Or do you feel you get enough info at home?

I can't speak for now but back in the days when any information on abortion was censored in Ireland there was a large volunteer network in the UK -mainly Irish - who provided information and any support women needed. From basic provision of information to meeting women at airport to accompanying them to the clinic waiting with them, bringing them back to the airport and follow up phone calls to check they were ok.

I don't know if anything like that still exists, and I fear it doesn't. That women are travelling alone and doing this in secrecy and fear of judgement if anyone finds out.

doctoremma

christmas2012 wrote: »

I agree there should be abortion aftercare,its such a shame really.

And yet you don't understand that had your friend been able to have an abortion in Ireland, she maybe would have received more appropriate after-care?

eviltwin

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I can't speak for now but back in the days when any information on abortion was censored in Ireland there was a large volunteer network in the UK -mainly Irish - who provided information and any support women needed. From basic provision of information to meeting women at airport to accompanying them to the clinic waiting with them, bringing them back to the airport and follow up phone calls to check they were ok.

I don't know if anything like that still exists, and I fear it doesn't. That women are travelling alone and doing this in secrecy and fear of judgement if anyone finds out.

I wish we could set up something like that here. Just having someone to talk to can make such a huge difference. I help run a support group for women and men post abortion and despite the fact our name is given by post abortion counsellors we still have very few members. People are terrified to talk about it face to face even years after the fact. That stigma has to go, we have to make it possible for people to get the help they need without fear.